Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Production!!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

As for the other topic, Josette is such an integral part of Dark Shadows, it would be hard imagining it without her.  She was the one constant in the series.  She was there in the earliest episodes and continued to be present until the bitter end.  It was Josette that really helped save the series.  She was the supernatural element which led to the others.  And in all of the three major supernatural stories of the early years, Josette was the glue that held them together.  Once that final early supernatural storyline took off in its own direction, the character of Josette became further cemented into the history of the show, eventually earning her own popular theme song.  Where would we be without Josette?  Nowhere.  I hope the creators of the new version see it the same way.

And yet the interesting thing about Josette is that a significant portion of the original audience tired of her - or at least tired of Barnabas' constant obsession with her. Such fans wrote letters of complaint to the various daytime magazines and to the studio itself. And that prompted the show to feature the scene in Ep #948 in which Josette's ghost gives Barnabas back her ring and tells him that he must forget about her, move on, and start a new life. And from that point on Barn indeed does, embarking on relationships with the various Roxannes - and in 1840 Ep #1113 even the newly released from his coffin Barn tells Josette's portrait that, though he will never forget, he insists he must begin a new life, and apologizing says goodbye and not so subtly lifts the portrait off the mantle in her room and puts it, face turned away, against the fireplace.

350 days 7 hours 59 minutes 14 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Zahir]

The thing is--Elizabeth only needs to be old enough to have a daughter in her mid-teens.  Michelle Pfeiffer certainly qualifies.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Exactly! And not to be rude, but Michelle Pfeiffer could easily have a daughter twice that age...

350 days 3 hours 53 minutes 7 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Cousin_Barnabas]

And yet the interesting thing about Josette is that a significant portion of the original audience tired of her - or at least tired of Barnabas' constant obsession with her. Such fans wrote letters of complaint to the various daytime magazines and to the studio itself. And that prompted the show to feature the scene in Ep #948 in which Josette's ghost gives Barnabas back her ring and tells him that he must forget about her, move on, and start a new life. And from that point on Barn indeed does, embarking on relationships with the various Roxannes - and in 1840 Ep #1113 even the newly released from his coffin Barn tells Josette's portrait that, though he will never forget, he insists he must begin a new life, and apologizing says goodbye and not so subtly lifts the portrait off the mantle in her room and puts it, face turned away, against the fireplace.

Well, it's understandable that the audience would want to see something new.  I mean, Barnabas had been after Josette for about 1,000 days in a row.  Naturally, changing things up was something that seemed necessary - especially with the various incarnations of Josette in 1897.  However, which characters have withstood the test of time?  Barnabas, Quentin, Angelique, and Josette.  Those are the main names you hear from outside circles.  Lots of DS fans don't even know who Roxanne is, letalone people on the outside.  She's an interesting character, but I never felt she was right for Barnabas.  And I tired more quickly of Barnabas's affections for Roxanne than I ever did of his love for Josette.  The Josette character had a history which they could never duplicate with Roxanne.  Perhaps the original viewing audience wanted Barnabas to give Josette up - not for another "young thing," but for the good Dr. Hoffman...  I don't think too many people were blown away by the new storyline the writers chose with Roxanne.  It never really lived up to his first - and arguably only true - love. 

I always felt that the mantle scene had more to do with the fact that KLS left than anything else.  It always seemed like a little bit of a swipe at KLS for leaving and not something I ever really considered to be part of the official DS cannon, much like other events which happened later on as the series was winding down.  After awhile, the series lost what made it magical.  It still had the name, but the essence of Dark Shadows was gone as soon as Barnabas gave up Josette, imo.  The Collins family of PT allowed the show to extend its original essence, harkening back to the earliest storylines, but never again was Barnabas ever really very relevant.  Without Josette, he seemed to be a shell of his former self.  Scenes with Julia and Angelique recaptured the old Barnabas, but he was never really a "whole" character after they switched to PT. 

I am excited to see what makes our new Barnabas tick.  Whether it be Josette or something else, I hope that the writers really get to his core and allow the audience to feel for him.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

A few quick as possible comments - and the only reason they're going to be that way is because to get into the issues deeply would really be off topic for this particular topic (but it might be fun to see them discussed more fully in a topic of their own).

Personally, I was always into the Barnabas/Josette relationship. I'm not sure why - maybe it's because it seemed to have a depth that many of the other romantic pairings on the show didn't. Though at the same time I have to say that that depth came mostly from Barnabas' own feelings about it. I can't say that when the relationship itself was actually seen in the 1795/76 storyline that it actually lived up to the hype, as it were, for me. However, strictly from Barnabas' perspective, I always rooted for Barnabas to get his Josette. Hell, I would have even been happy had hoDS ended with Barn making Maggie Josette. (But alas...) And I really look forward to the take the Depp/DS film is going to bring to it.

As for Roxanne, I actually enjoyed Barnabas' relationships with all the versions of her - there was a freshness about them. Did they have the same weight as his perceived relationship with Josette? Well, no. But it wasn't really a competition. It was meant to take the show and Barnabas in a new direction and that's exactly what it did. So, I suppose mission accomplished. That all being said, though, when I brought up Roxanne, I never meant that she should be compared to Josette or Josette's place in the show. It was just to emphasize that once the vocal portion of the audience who had decided that Josette had run her course won out with the DS PTB, Barnabas did indeed move on to someone else, and even when out of necessity Josette came up in a plot, she was quickly dispatched.

And as far as DS canon goes, we can't really pick and choose what we feel is canon and what isn't. If it was on the show, it was canon. There's no getting around that, no matter how much we may personally dislike what happened. (If I could wipe out what I disliked, Jeb and Carolyn's marriage to him would not exist. But he did and it did, and I have no choice but to accept those facts. )

350 days 0 hours 48 minutes 38 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Miss_Winthrop]

I find it interesting that a women who looks younger than middle-age (even if she is middle-aged) gets plenty of discussion about her qualifications to play a more mature role than that of a young ingenue.  Hurumph!

 I have to disagree with the assumption that Barnabas was a 'playboy extraordinaire' in the original show.  I think Joshua worked him practically to death to learn the business. I'm sure he had his share of women along the way. Since Ang was the personal maid in the DuPrey household, he took quite a chance bedding her while courting the young Josette under the same roof.  Not a very nice houseguest, eh?

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Actually, on the original show Barnabas didn't have a relationship with Josette while he had a relationship with Angelique. It wasn't until after Barn left Martinique and he and Josette corresponded that their relationship began.

350 days 0 hours 35 minutes 50 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Gothick]

It's interesting to note that in the first episode in 1967 where Barnabas visits the ruined Old House, he speaks to Josette's portrait without any trance of romantic obsession, informing her that her influence upon him, and Joshua's, "is over" and he now claims his home as his own.  I remember being very surprised the first time I had the chance to see this episode again upon the release of the first MPI tapes.  Obviously, this was before the writers had had the chance to establish any sort of backstory for Barnabas.

I don't recall the 1840 scene, but it is interesting that presumably purely by accident similar scenes were played when Barnabas, newly liberated from his coffin, revisited his home.

G.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

According to Robert Costello they did have the backstory for Barnabas before he ever appeared and they stuck with it as written until they went to 1795 where everything went out the window. But be that as it may, I really think that seeing/meeting Maggie is the trigger that set Barnabas off on the original show and in hoDS. If there had never been a Maggie who resembled Josette, Barn may have never become so obsessed with recreating her, which is why both those scenes with Josette's portrait in both 1967 and 1840 make sense.

It will be very interesting to see how Barnabas' attraction to Victoria plays out in the Depp/DS film. Will it be like the original show and hoDS with Maggie's resemblance to Josette? Or will it be more like the way things played out with Victoria in the '91 Series?

349 days 23 hours 43 minutes 10 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Taeylor Collins]

I think its going to be interesting to see a "younger" version of Elizabeth.  Women just look younger these days.  And Michelle looks great.   I think she will bring a wonderful regal grace to Liz. She defiantly has always been a class act in my book.  And Chloe could be her daughter for real.  The pics Chloe has tweeted have been great. It's great to get live updates about our beloved DS on Twitter!   I am not a big tweeter but I do follow my stars!  I love the line about Chloe saying she shoot the most amazingly weird scene with Tim, or something to that affect.   DS was amazing and DS was weird.  Sounds perfect!

[Nightfall59]

Actually, on the original show Barnabas didn't have a relationship with Josette while he had a relationship with Angelique. It wasn't until after Barn left Martinique and he and Josette corresponded that their relationship began.

Barnabas did say (in 1795)  that he loved Josette when he and Angelique were together, but didn't know if Josette returned his love.  I think that is where many viewers get the idea that he was whooping it up with Angelique while courting the virginal Josette.  Obviously, Barnabas and Josette weren't communicating very well in Martinique because, from what she said later, it had been love at first sight for Josette. Miscommunication and Barnabas seemed to go hand in hand. 

I find that 1967 scene between Barnabas and Josette's portrait rather fascinating. He seems almost ticked off at her, as if he felt she might have been in league with Joshua to have him chained up.  It's intriguing to wonder what Barn's original backstory might have been. Even two weeks before the 1795 story began, he was saying things that didn't match up with what we were soon to see.

Ever since Michelle P was cast as Liz, I've been reading comments about her being too young for the part. But a actress in her 50s today isn't going to look quite the same as an actress in her 50s did back when DS aired. That's simply a fact. Perhaps we need to update our mental image of a "matriarch".  I'm looking forward to seeing what Michelle brings to the role.

[Joeytrom]

It would be great if they could find the outline for the original backstory as I always wondered what they came with for how Barnabas became a vampire prior to Angelique.

It's odd that Julia or Wille never asked him how he was turned, it was never really hinted at prior to 1795, except for the mantle scene with Josetts's portrait and  the episode when the seance is held.

With Julia attempting to cure him, she certainly should have asked how he got that way prior to starting any kind of cure.

It's intriguing to wonder what Barn's original backstory might have been. Even two weeks before the 1795 story began, he was saying things that didn't match up with what we were soon to see.

[DarkLady]

It's odd that Julia or Wille never asked him how he was turned, it was never really hinted at prior to 1795

Oh, I'm sure they asked--but whether or how Barn answered is another story altogether! I'm sure he kept as much of it as possible from them for as long as possible.

I'm pretty sure that some time after the 1795 story, as Barnabas grew to trust and rely on Julia more, he told her little bits of the story, but never the complete version. At some point, there's a scene with the two of them having a confidential conversation in the mausoleum. (Well, doesn't EVERYBODY have their confidential conversations in a mausoleum??) I don't remember any of the dialogue, but as the scene opens, we can infer from what Julia says that Barnabas has finally told her the whole story of Josette and Angelique and how A. made him a vampire. I wish I could remember what else was happening at the time. Maybe it was when Barn was trying to decide whether to go through with Dr. Lang's experiment. Or maybe it was when Cassandra appeared on the scene and he recognized her. Of course Julia would want to know why he reacted so strongly. I suppose it's safe to say that by that time Willie was also aware of most of the story, if not all the details.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

And it's another Carolyn day:

ChloeGMoretz
La, La, La on set yay yay yay.....
6 hours ago

ChloeGMoretz
Lunchy lunch time, listeningg to #FlorenceAndTheMachine
3 hours ago

(I love Florence and the Machine - but then the video for Dog Days Are Over and its '60 hair and sleeveless dresses have already been discussed on the forum.  )

349 days 13 hours 26 minutes 41 seconds until the day the Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS is released(ET)!!

[Gothick]

MB, that's an intriguing theory that it was meeting Maggie that suddenly sent Barn over the edge down the "must find my Josette again" trail.  And that subsequently, when Maggie "fails to work out," suddenly he wants Vicki not as herself but as "my new Josette."

My favorite image of Josette was actually in the original Laura storyline as the Guardian of Collinwood.  I wrote a story once in which the spirit of Vicki returns, having lived a full and happy life through a time in the 19th century, to take up the place Josette originally occupied as the Guardian spirit of the family and the estate.

G.