Author Topic: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows  (Read 107041 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1395 on: November 30, 2023, 05:48:40 PM »
Continuing with revisiting the goof:

[pointing-up]  YES!! You've hit on it!!  [thumb]  Or at least a big part of it...

In the opening of Scene 85, Angelique isn't wearing anything around her neck:



Hence why I shared as clues stills taken in the tower in which she was also missing any sort of necklace:

And the last of the stills to preview Scene 85, two more Angelique publicity stills that were taken in the tower room:




(Click here for a 1481X1000 version)

...

Though...

...mysteriously the heart pendant shows up halfway through the scene:



Hence why I referred back to this:

And to further provide clues, I'm reposting this -

And fair warning to pay close attention to the publicity stills because they may come in handy because there may be a quiz down the line...  [hall2_wink]

But the more odd thing is that the pendant appears only to...

...then disappear at the end of the scene to be replaced by a simple chain necklace:



Hence why I shared as a clue the following still taken in the tower in which she was also simply wearing the chain necklace:

- and this particularly -

And another behind the scenes still featuring David Selby and Lara Parker to preview Scene 85:


(Click here for a 700X476 version)

- because it provides one of the biggest clues among the publicity stills...

It's all enough to make one wonder if parts of Scene 85 were shot on different days? If not, why all the continuity goofs regarding the pendant? (And I can't believe it took me so many decades to finally even notice. But as I've often said, no matter how many times one watches something, there can still be things to notice for the first time, even continuity goofs. And I guessing not many others have noticed it either because, not only has no one ever posted about it here, but no one has ever added it to the film's goofs on IMDb.)

And like I said, it would all be bad enough on its own, but it's a really big problem when it comes to Scene 124 when, in a hugely important plot point, Angelique gives the pendant to Sarah to "remember" her by...

If Scene 85 was indeed shot on different days, it could also explain why there is rain pouring down windows at one point and bright sun shining in the windows at another, especially if the rain was actually happening during some of the shooting and not artificially created by the Tarrytown Fire Department...

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1396 on: November 30, 2023, 08:50:10 PM »
And two last posts to revisit before moving on the Scene 86:

I got somewhat distracted by Angelique's big hair

 [stfl] [stfl] [stfl]

One really has to wonder how Angelique's somewhat flattened hair (due to Charles running his hands through it) -


- suddenly becomes as big as it is, especially at the end of Scene 85 -


- but perhaps that's even more evidence that Scene 85 was shot over the course of a few days... (Or is it evidence that Angelique really was a witch and had cast a spell so that her hair would go back to being perfectly coiffed no matter what Charles did to it during their, uh, amorous interludes?  [snow_wink] [snow_cheesy])

One final comment that just occurred to me regarding the heart pendant continuity goofs:

It's hard to imagine that DC and editor Charles Goldsmith didn't notice those goofs when they were assembling the footage for Scene 85, so could it have really been the case that, as with the daytime show, DC thought the DS audience was too stupid/unobservant to ever notice? After all, on the daytime show we were never suppose to be smart/observant enough to notice things like when actors wore different clothes during the end of one ep and the restaging of the same scene for the teaser of the next. Though at least in that case, we would be seeing things on different days (and the thinking was that supposedly we were only going to watch the eps once and never again). But in the film the pendant goofs take place in the same scene - and as is the case with most of us, we've watched the original DS films MANY times. Though in my defense, as I've said before, more often than not I tend to strongly focus on faces and not other things (which is why I've rarely been one to notice the occasional stagehand at the outer fringes of the frames of some of the daytime eps unless someone else has pointed them out). But again, even I'm shocked that after all these decades no one else seems to have mentioned the goofs in Scene 85 with the pendant. It pains me to say it, but maybe there really was some point, even if it was only a small one, to DC's belief. But at least it's not like the pendant goofs never went noticed...

 [nods]

Offline Uncle Roger

  • * 200000, 250000 & 300000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 32674
  • Karma: +7/-130897
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1397 on: November 30, 2023, 09:29:59 PM »
Maybe she cast a spell on the pendant, willing it and out of existence depending on her level of concentration. Or perhaps she had an invisible Satanic stagehand who was in charge of her jewelry .
Fade Away and Radiate

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1398 on: November 30, 2023, 11:46:30 PM »
 [pointing-up]  I LOVE the Satanic stagehand explanation for the pendant! I'm going with that!!  [stfl] [thumb]

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1399 on: December 01, 2023, 01:44:12 AM »
Revisiting Scene 86 as scripted:

...

86     INT - TOWER - 1971 - EVENING - NORMAL COLOR      86

       Quentin is still staring at the picture.  He
       remembers it all.


And that's when today's quote -

Page 36/Scene 86 - Quentin: 'Gabriel...Angelique...? That was her funeral I saw. What happened here? What?'

- is scripted to come up.

But when it comes to various versions of the film, there is either no dialogue at all or a completely different bit of dialogue. In the 94 minute and 97 minute versions, the correct sound mix is that there is no dialogue in Scene 86. But in the 129 minute version, slightly reworked versions of two of the things Angelique says at the outset of Scene 85 are combined and repeated: "As long as she's in this house, I can't be happy. Bring the painting to life. Please." But just as is the case with the earlier additional dialogue that can be heard in Scene 85 even though it doesn't belong in the 94 minute version of the film, that bit from Angelique is mistakenly heard in the versions of the 94 minute NoDS available online via Amazon and iTunes and possibly other places, and on DVD and Blu-ray.

And beyond the facts that like Scene 84, Scene 86 is not actually shot in the evening and the transition between the subconscious memory and the present is made via an extreme close-up of Quentin blinking, when it comes to what's different from the descriptions and directions, there isn't so much anything different from the actual script as there is from a notation DC made in his script which says that Quentin would be shot in profile and silhouetted against the water and sky - but as we can see in the following capture -


- that is definitely not the case in the film.

Also I have to say that the music used for this sequence (titled The Taking Of Angelique on the soundtrack CD) is one of my favorite pieces that Bob Cobert wrote for the film.

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1400 on: December 01, 2023, 03:26:10 PM »
And again we know that when it comes to the DVD/Blu-ray there's dialogue that shouldn't be in Scene 86, and of course it all shows up in the subtitles, but it's totally different from what's scripted - instead of Quentin's scripted realization regarding Angelique's funeral, what actually comes up, and should only come up in the 129 minute version, is -




 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1401 on: December 01, 2023, 08:46:42 PM »
...

But when it comes to various versions of the film, there is either no dialogue at all or a completely different bit of dialogue. In the 94 minute and 97 minute versions, the correct sound mix is that there is no dialogue in Scene 86.


Quote
But in the 129 minute version, slightly reworked versions of two of the things Angelique says at the outset of Scene 85 are combined and repeated: "As long as she's in this house, I can't be happy. Bring the painting to life. Please." But just as is the case with the earlier additional dialogue that can be heard in Scene 85 even though it doesn't belong in the 94 minute version of the film, that bit from Angelique is mistakenly heard in the versions of the 94 minute NoDS available online via Amazon and iTunes and possibly other places, and on DVD and Blu-ray.


And something that you might have noticed (I didn't actually until this time around) is that the two clips above are scored differently. Note that on the VHS the flourish of Quentin's Theme isn't heard until the frame is focusing solely on the painting and Quentin is no longer in frame, whereas on the DVD/Blu-ray the Quentin's Theme flourish is already being heard at the outset of the clip while Quentin is in frame and the painting is barely seen. And all of that is quite possibly because the removal of the more explicit footage from Scene 85 and Angelique's voiceover over the painting required rescoring. Though what's interesting is the rescoring doesn't appear to noticably kick in until about the time Charles unlocks the door for Gabriel, which is after where the removal of the more explicit footage was made.

Another thing that's interesting is that on the VHS a few notes of the score continue to be heard when things switch to the outside shot of Collinwood, whereas on the DVD/Blu-ray the score cuts off immediately at the end of Scene 86. And speaking of that outside shot of Collinwood, also recall that as the film currently stands, Scene 86 is followed by Scene 74, not Scene 87 (Quentin, Alex, Claire and Tracy discuss the two paintings of Angelique) as will be coming up in the slideshow, though sadly, doesn't appear in any version of the film...

...

(ADMIN: Edited to replace VHS video with Laser video)

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1402 on: December 02, 2023, 12:40:08 AM »
Moving on the revisit how the first part of Scene 87 is scripted:

Setting up Scene 87, which DC has broken up into Scenes 87A and 87B in his script:

87     INT - GALLERY - NIGHT                            87A

       Tracy, Claire, Alex are looking at the half-finished
       portrait as Quentin stares at the portrait of
       Angelique on the wall.




87     CONTD                                  CONTD     87

And that's when today's quote -

Page 37/Scene 87A - Quentin (O.S.): 'It looks like he was going to add some other people.'

- comes up.

And there's absolutely nothing to get into when it comes to differences with the dialogue, the descriptions, or the directions because, sadly, even though this scene was shot, it doesn't appear in any version of the film. But one thing that is interesting is that even though the scene isn't indicated as a rewrite in DC's script, his version begins with dialogue for Quentin (the above quote) and Alex (coming up tomorrow) that does not appear in Grayson's script's version of the scene.

Picking up from yesterday with today's quote -

Page 37/Scene 87A - Alex: 'I wonder why he never finished it... yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? So evil here...so prim over there. The double life of Angelique Collins. I wonder what Charles Collins knew that the others didn't.'

-coming up in DC's script. However, as I'd mentioned yesterday, the dialogue for Scene 87 begins differently in Grayson's version of the script. The first lines are given to Alex and his lines appear like this:

            ALEX
Fascinating.  So evil here ...
so prim over there.  The double
life of Angelique Collins.


So, along with Quentin being given the lines to open the scene, Alex' original lines are expanded upon in DC's script to bring up more questions. Unfortunately though, when it comes to whether or not there may have been even more differences with what Alex actually says, we'll never know because, as I also said yesterday, even though Scene 87 was shot, as evidenced by the still used in today's graphic -


- it doesn't appear in any version of the film.

And it's also worth pointing out that the end of Scene 87 is different in DC's script in more ways than one. But we'll get into that once we reach that point in the scene...

Continuing with Scene 87, we pick up with yesterday's quote, made in response to Alex' musing about Angelique -

Page 37/Scene 87A - Claire: 'Here he goes. Another plot for another book --'

- and then today's quote -

Page 37/Scene 87A - Alex: 'I've been doing some research.'

- comes up, followed in the script by:

          QUENTIN
What did you find out?


But we'll have to wait until the next installment in the slideshow to find out what Alex has found out - but one interesting thing about what he learned is that it does answer a question posed earlier with regard to something Alex said in Scene 59.

And when it comes to DC's script, he added a couple of notations to this section. One indicates that after Claire's lines the camera would pan to include Quentin (recall that his line, which opens the scene, is designated as being delivered off screen). And the other indicates that after Alex' line Scene 87B is to start, even though DC doesn't break things up into 87B until later in the scene, so who knows? But other than those things there's absolutely no way to know if other changes might have been made because, as has already been mentioned, Scene 87 doesn't appear in any version of the film.

Moving on with Scene 87, today's first quote -

Page 37/Scene 87A - Alex: 'The servant-girl legend is just that. And after seeing this, my vote goes to her. She'd make some ghost.'

- comes up...

...

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1403 on: December 02, 2023, 03:38:04 PM »
Revisiting a post related to Scene 87:

... I want to share the photo -


- I used for yesterday's graphic -


As far as I'm aware, the only place it was ever published was as part of a NoDS article in the Dec. '71 issue of 16 Magazine. And in fact, back in the '90s Darren Gross couldn't locate a copy among the NoDS stills available to him. But he may have located a copy since...

In upcoming days I'll be sharing what I used to create other Scene 87 graphics (including one that's brand new to this version of the slideshow) and one that I didn't use...

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1404 on: December 03, 2023, 09:09:06 PM »
Revisiting how the last part of Scene 87 is scripted:

Moving on with Scene 87 ... in DC's script by:

       QUENTIN - CLOSE-UP |----------------------------------- 87B

And that's when today's second quote -

Scene 87B - Claire (O.S.): 'Poor Angelique Collins. He's going to start and she'll have no more secrets.'

- comes up.

So, as I said yesterday, who knows where DC really intended 87B to begin because his script has notations for it beginning in two different places.  [scratch]

But so far as Alex' dialogue goes, it answers the question of who the "young beautiful servant girl who roams the halls of Collinwood" is: she's apparently no one because the story is simply a legend. Unfortunately that means that Quentin won't be able to hire her after all.  [b003]

And blah blah blah, no way to know if other changes, blah blah blah, doesn't appear in any version of the film...

Continuing with Scene 87, with Tracy asking in yesterday's quote -

Page 37/Scene 87B - Tracy: 'Do we have to have a ghost, Alex?'

- coming up, followed by the script indicating:

BACK TO SCENE

And that's when today's quote -

Page 37/Scene 87B - Quentin: 'Alex makes up his own legends, anyway. I'm not half as curious about Angelique Collins as I am about Charles. He is quite good, you know.'

- comes up.

And again, blah blah blah, no way to know if other changes, blah blah blah, doesn't appear in any version of the film. Though what will be interesting when it comes to tomorrow's installments in the slideshow, which are taken from DC's script, is that they're very different from how Grayson's script concludes Scene 87. But more on that tomorrow...

Before we get into the way Scene 87 concludes in DC's script, here's how it concludes in Grayson's script, picking up after Quentin's remark that Charles Collins "is quite good":

       He looks at the portrait again.

                             ALEX
                 Is?

       They all laugh.


End of scene.

However, picking up at the same point in DC's script we have:

              takes               from Alex
       He looks at the portrait again.


And following that, DC has handwritten in today's first quote -

Page 37/Scene 87B - Alex: 'He is good?'

- followed by handwriting in today's second quote -

Page 37/Scene 87B - Quentin: 'He was good.'

- followed by handwriting in today's third quote -

Page 37/Scene 87B - Alex: 'He was good.'

End of scene.

And again, blah blah blah, no way to know if other changes, blah blah blah, doesn't appear in any version of the film. Though if anyone is wondering what portrait is referred to in Grayson's version, recall that back in the initial description of the scene it's explained that "Quentin stares at the portrait of Angelique on the wall." Who knows which portrait is being referred to when Quentin takes it from Alex in DC's version? And who knew Alex is even holding a portrait because that fact is never introduced in DC's version of the scene. And there's no indication of any laughing at the end in DC's version.

 [nods]

Offline Uncle Roger

  • * 200000, 250000 & 300000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 32674
  • Karma: +7/-130897
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1405 on: December 04, 2023, 05:41:55 AM »
I wonder if the servant girl ghost might be a subplot left over from an earlier version of the script.
Fade Away and Radiate

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1406 on: December 04, 2023, 06:14:00 PM »
Two more posts worth revisiting:

Another scene I wish had been retained.  I love the whole "Scooby gang" flavor of the dialogue here.

[pointing-up]  Indeed!  But we're all too familiar with DC's belief that when editing a film, the character oriented stuff is the first to go.  [ghost_rolleyes]

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1407 on: December 04, 2023, 10:12:10 PM »
Another post worth revisiting:

When it comes to yesterday's and today's graphics in the slideshow -



- I made them using this -


- which, as far as I know, has only been published on page 111 of the DS Companion. However, since creating those graphics I've come into possession of the actual still, which shows a bit more than its DS Companion version:


(Click here for a 700X484 version)

Plus, the still in #8 in the NoDS Edtor's Portfolio.

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1408 on: December 06, 2023, 08:02:40 PM »
And definitely another post worth revisiting:

And when it comes to today's second graphic in the slideshow -


- I made it this time around using this -


(Click here for a 533X700 version)

- which I probably would have done back in 2009 or 2016 for those slideshows if I had remembered that it had been shared as part of the 2004 Fest Program, but I didn't. Thankfully this time around I did remember it was there...

 [nods]

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16071
  • Karma: +205/-12187
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Happy 50th Anniversary, Night of Dark Shadows
« Reply #1409 on: December 06, 2023, 11:34:42 PM »
Another post to revisit:

Recall with regard to Scene 87, Darren Gross posted on his Restoration Web site:

Quote
The following is a list of scenes that are still lost and which are not present in the 129 min version recovered in 1999.

...

INT.GALLERY-NIGHT. Quentin & Tracy, Claire & Alex discuss the two Angelique portraits.

...

 [nods]