DS Redux: Your Vision?

[GooberCollins]

I like that intro a lot, borgosi, but I can just see the DS newcomers leaving the theater, saying, "Who the hell were those people in the grainy clips at the beginning of the movie?" Of course, it would be a great nod to the original's fans.

[borgosi]

I guess they'll have to watch the original show to find out.

[Zahir]

Taelor, I respect your opinion but also disagree.  I've seen her in a lot of things other than BTVS and was mighty impressed.  Honestly, a lot of the things she's been in have sucked (like a perfectly dreadful flick called Taboo) but even then she shone.  I've seen her play drunk, a vampire, a serial killer, a hippie, etc. and given the chance she really can do a lot.

Borgosi, no offense but Charlize Theron is a tad old for Carolyn.  Brilliant actress, though.  I see her as more like Angelique.  Hadyn Patteniere would be good, though.  Or perhaps Mila Kunis? But Kelsey Grammer as Roger?  Perfect!  Jennifer Connelly is a magnificent choice, both hauntingly beautiful as well as a fearless actress.  But Victoria would have to be older for that to work.  Which of course it could.

[borgosi]

I guess I tend to make them all a little older. I'm older so my taste lean that way and I really would hate to see a "WB" type cast. I'm hoping for a more adult movie and not one for 15 and 16 year olds.

I think it would cool to save these threads and see if we get any right when the movie is cast.

[Zahir]

Hey, I've nothing against older.  I'm simply pointing out that some of these characters are supposed to be quite young.  Carolyn is at most a college student.  Elizabeth is supposed to have a daughter around twenty years old.  How old was Nancy Barrett when she started on the show?

In my outline for a new DS I was going to have Burke interested in Liz.

[Midnite]

I think it would cool to save these threads and see if we get any right when the movie is cast.

Oh, they're not going anywhere.   

[Taeylor Collins]

Taelor, I respect your opinion but also disagree.

I also respectfully disagree as I have watched everything Amber has done since Buffy.  I don't exactly know how to word it but Amber (to me) does not have the Victoria quality nor the range to play her. I feel the same way about her as I do Sarah Michelle Gellar (who I  adore and have followed since Buffy) who Goober had suggested for Angelique.  It's cool though we all have our own opinions and ideas and that is what makes the boards so much fun.  Really the thought of any Buffy/Angel alum being in DS makes me cringe.  And TRUST ME I am a BUFFY/ANGEL fanatic!   I will get back to you though if I come up with any ideas.  We have a movie casting thread already. So is this thread completely devoted to a new small screen version of DS??

[MagnusTrask]

I forget how much of this I may have said already... Re DS: Next Gen-- Skilled writers could pare down any necessary bits of backstory or references to the past and insert them in such a way that it would all be intriguing, partly because they leave some out, which also saves time and keeps them from getting bogged down in exposition.

Maybe I'm alone, but my only interest in any revival would be the fleshing out of the original story and finding out what happens next.   Sure, one of these "reboots" that people love these days could be done well, I suppose, but I like my DS, and I don't need another one.  I'd rather see a completely original great series or film, than that.

As for "icons", DS had no "icons" to start with-- no series does.   It made them.   A new DS will not be viable unless it can tell new stories and create new characters... otherwise it's feeding off original DS's achievements and creativity too much, and will be stale from the start.   Continuing the Next Gen analogy, in their first season, they appropriated one plot element after another from original Trek stories, doing stale contrived versions of them.    They stopped doing that though, and stood on their own.   And they didn't need "icons" like Spock or Kirk.

I'd like at least a couple of the older actors reprising roles, and a recasting or two if it's good for the story, but mainly new Collinses etc..   And no models pretending to be actors!

Now just for kicks.....How about reacasting with the entire West Wing cast?    I'll expand on this later....

[borgosi]

I always liked the "Next Gen." idea, the only trouble I see with is this. Dan included many classic horror stories in DS and it would be hard to do a new DS without using those classic stories in some way. I really don't want to see a soap that's inspired by todays horror stories. I just don't see it working.

Now the stories could be told but told very different. The love story could be between a Dr. Frankenstein type, his creature, and his female creature. The original idea for the Bride Of Frankenstein movie was that, unknown to him, the Dr. would use his wife's brain for the female creature. This would cause her to be in love with the Dr. and his creature that she was created for. Of course the Dr. would reject her just as she would reject the creature. There's a twisted love story there that could work if done right.

They could do a Jekyll and Hyde love story. Jekyll loves her and she loves him but he, Jekyll, rejects her because he's afraid of what Hyde could do to he. A werewolf love story would be very close to the same thing.

They would have to the central charater love story or it would just seem like they're doing the original again. If they're going to do that I'd prefer that they do that and do it "full speed ahead", "no holds bared" and not do it half way.

I just want it to have the spirit of the original and I think it needs that love story conflict for it to work.

Have you ever seen the movie "Ladyhawk"? That could be a good starting place. A man who is cursed to be a wolf at night, his lover who is cursed to be a hawk durning the day, so that they can never see each other, and the man who put the curse on them because he's in love with her.

[MagnusTrask]

I haven't seen that... Anyway, the whole idea of doing a series is based on the idea that it's possible to come up with new stories.   Otherwise why do it?   A new story can be defined as taking established themes or premises and putting new twists on them.    What I don't want is the DC rolodex, the cliche of the month, which was resorted to way too often, without enough of a reworking of the old idea.

I think that the good writers may be unemployed and starving someplace while those who crank out shallow cliched shows starring models get rich.   Buit if we had genuinely good writers, they'd surprise us by solving these dilemmas we find insoluble, because, well, they're better at it than we are.   A really fresh, good series is like a miracle.  I'd love to see a new DS sequel series be that.   We won't be able to predict what solutions they'll come up with, and that's as it should be.

[borgosi]

I think they have good writers that have learned that most producers want a story that they know people like and that causes them to keep re-writing the same stories. If you write something to original you take a chance that people aren't going to like it. It's like the NEA, artist see what gets grants so they change that their art to fit that mold. Which causes a kind of paradox. Like all art film has to be funded but when you fund art you control the artist and cause self censorship. Anyway, back on topic.

Ladyhawke came out in 1985. It stars Rutger Hauer as a knight and Michelle Pfeiffer as his lady love. They have been cursed by a man who also loved Pfeiffer's character. Matthew Broderick plays a young thief that escapes from a prison that helps Rutger's character try to find a way to break the curse. It's a great love story and IMHO it shares the same spirit that DS has. If you get the chance check it out.

[Zahir]

Magnus, I get it.  We all get it.  You don't want to see a new DS unless it is a continuation of the old.   Does it really bother so much that other people simply disagree and would like to take a trip in the imagination down a path not to your taste?

And for the record, I never mentioned "TREK without Spock" but "TREK without Vulcans and Klingons" because in terms of the TREK universe those are iconic.  Just as in DS the Collins family, the Collinwood estate, the sense of the past reaching out to hurt or shape the present, etc. are iconic to DS.  On this very board you've complained about ideas for a DS series that lacked the things that made DS itself.  Others have pointed out other iconic themes--the cursed love triangle that transcends time, the governess at the heart of mystery and desire, the protection of the Collins Heir, etc.  It would be like STAR WARS without Jedi Knights (as opposed to specific Knights), or Hercule Poirot stories set in the modern era (been tried, didn't work).

On another note, I was generally thinking of (for lack of a better term) television actors for a television series.  Also, it seems to me that redoing a show like DS adds a factor which is lovely in theatre--that is, we get to see different actors do their takes on the same part.  I am one of over a dozen people I have seen play Malvolio from Twelfth Night live, and it is really lovely/startling to see varying 'takes' on such a juicy role.  Ditto thousands of other parts.  I have seen four different men play Barnabas Collins (five if you count the Big Finish audio dramas) and will almost certainly eventually see two others--Alec Newman and Johnny Depp.  I quite like the idea of seeing still more.

How many ways are there to adapt Dracula?  Look at Max Shrek, Bela Lugois, Carlos Villar, Christopher Lee, Denholm Elliot (ok, that one is rare and obscure, but worth the look), Marc Warren, Louis Jourdain and Gary Oldman.  Or any of the many adaptations of Jane Austen novels.  Take a gander at Lawrence Olivier's film of Henry V and then at Kenneth Branaugh's version of the same.  Rent Al Pacino's Looking for Richard then rend Ian McKellan's movie Richard III.

Mind you--here's a fun idea.  What if a new DS weren't on television or the big screen?  What if a new DS were created for the web?  Look at Dr.Horrible's Sing-A-Long Blog or The Guild or even the online audio drama Wormwood (a town that frankly makes Collinsport look a little bit like Mayberry).  How long before technology allows us to to even more amazing things with seemingly-ordinary desktop computers? 

[Taeylor Collins]

Have you ever seen the movie "Ladyhawk"? That could be a good starting place. A man who is cursed to be a wolf at night, his lover who is cursed to be a hawk during  the day, so that they can never see each other, and the man who put the curse on them because he's in love with her.

I haven't watched the movie but I saw "Charmed's' version in a Season Three episode.  Only difference is the man was an owl at night and the woman was a wolf during the day.  The only time they saw each other (in their true form) was as the sun was coming up. They were cursed by a demon that loved the lady. Charmed didn't always rip stuff off however, I think MOST genre shows end up taking old myth, tales, stories and putting their own twist on it.  I personally loved their take on Valkyries since I had never saw anything about that race of demi gods. 

A bit off topic but I will have to try and see that movie.

Zahir I don't think Magnus meant any harm he just has a different view. 

[GooberCollins]

I don't think he meant any harm, either; he simply feels that if there's going to be a new Dark Shadows, it should be a new Dark Shadows, as opposed to a retelling. Personally, I'd love to see either a sequel series or a retelling, as long as said retelling had enough differences to make it stand out from the original series. The fact that the revival didn't deviate too much from the original show/HoDS was one of my main gripes with the show.

EDIT: I have seen Ladyhawk. It was good, and I can definitely see Dan Curtis saying, "Yeah, let's do that," had DS been running at the time it was released. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

the revival didn't deviate too much from the original show/HoDS

That was purely and simply because of DC's involvement. However, DC claimed that supposedly he was going to back away had the show been renewed, and the writers did have ideas to take the second season's storylines in new and totally different directions. But, again, alas...

For what it's worth, DC also wanted the '04 pilot and the concept for that series to be more like hoDS.    Thankfully he was overruled by John Wells and Mark Verheiden.

I'm quite honestly relieved that DC will have no involvement with the Depp/DS film.