DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Zahir on July 28, 2008, 06:18:04 AM
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I'm wondering how different folks might like to see DS redone as a weekly series? Specifically, how might the show be updated? What changes would you make in character and plotline? What opportunities might a modern remake offer that should be explored?
My own ideas...
Victoria should have a spine, and preferably some fire. Growing up an orphan probably has put a bit of a chip on her shoulder and she might have her eye on opportunities to improve her lot in life.
Rather than moping around that huge mansion, Elizabeth should be a strong businesswoman--devoted to helping "her" town grow, but with a tendency to see everyone else (including her family) as tools. Honestly, I rather see Marcia Cross in the role. Imagine her with Mrs. Johnson playing Mrs. Danvers to her Rebecca!
Instead of a son, I'd give Roger Collins a daughter--Daphne Collins, trapped in a wheelchair (the result of the car accident that killed her mother) at least for now. Roger in a weird way is trying to provide for her, in the scheming way that he learned growing up in that house. Left a pittance in his father's will, Roger is the one seeking to discover the lost Collins jewels. Dr. Julia Hoffman is Daphne's personal physician, and almost certainly a love interest of Roger's.
Eventually, the secret room in the Collins mausoleum is discovered--and within is an open coffin, broken chains on the floor, and beside them the dessicated corpse of a man identified via dental records as one William Loomis. He was a handyman at Collinwood twenty years ago, who vanished without a trace. Yet Reverend Gregory Trask, oldest friend of the late Jamison Collins, keeps hinting to his niece (Maggie) and nephew (Todd) that he knows some terrible secret about two decades ago.
He becomes even more agitated when Roger announces that he's finally rented the Old House (which is his) to a hitherto-unknown cousin named Barnabas Collins. He'll be arriving soon from England along with his personal secretary, Roxanne Drew.
All this takes the basic elements of DS and shakes them up into a new--and hopefully fresh--shape. David Collins would turn out to be Roger and Elizabeth's younger brother, a ne're do well in the Quentin vein. Barnabas is returning to Collinwood in an effort to learn precisely the nature of what happened to him, to perhaps seeks a cure for this eternal living death. Roxanne is less than pleased at this, because she frankly hopes to become a vampire herself, forever young. It would turn out Jamison Collins had spent much of his life studying the occult and how it had impacted his family history. He discovered all kinds of secrets, including the truth of what happened back in 1795. Or at least some of it, including things Barnabas himself never knew.
That would be my take. What about others? How would you like to see DS redone for the small screen?
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Personally, I hope that, in the event of a new series, we don't get Barnabas until Season 2 and get the first season dedicated to a storyline to ease us into the new versions of the characters. That was one of my big problems with the '91 show. I've actually thought about this to the extent where I've figured out how several plot points would be done, including the introduction of Julia, not through Maggie's kidnapping, but through Bill Malloy's murder. I've been considering typing it up into a fanfiction piece, so I don't want to reveal any more than that.
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As interesting as people's ideas here are, there should absolutely be no more retellings of the same story, even with the characters mixed up and rearranged. It still baffles me why anyone would want the straight retelling. We've seen it, and it happened with the Barnabas, Julia, Roger etc. that we all know. The re-arranged reality Zahir talks about could be great as some PT fan fiction.
I like the idea of a daily soap opera again. Bigger budget prime time horror or supernatural shows get weighed down and smothered by all the... I don't know, the seriousness, the effects, the pretension... I need the urgency, life, energy, and seeming spontaneity you get from a daily videotaped show.
I also would need a well-done sequel series, set 37 years later, and don't tell me it couldn't be written so that it was completely new-viewer friendly. An alternative might be setting it just a few years after 1971 so that more original characters could be used and recast. I don't like recasting, I prefer new characters to that, but I'll take recasting if I get an original story that continues and doesn't conflict with the original story.
If the makers of a new DS aren't creative and talented enough to come up with their own new and compelling story within the existing fictional world of DS, then the whole thing's doomed to failure anyway. Re-using the old story is like giving up and admitting you don't have new ideas.
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I'm very impressed by Zahir's ideas for a daily DS. I especially like the Barnabas and Roxanne Drew angle. I can see the pressure put on Barnabas to make Roxanne's dreams come true. As far as Vicki goes, I still like the attraction Barnabas feels for her as an important part of the story.
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I really like your story idea's Zahir they are great!!! At this point I have nothing in my brain to offer.
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I basically agree with MagnusTrask. I wouldn't mind a straight retelling in the film, but should another TV series emerge, I want a new version of the story, not something done exactly the same way.
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Well, if you're going to do DS again, there are pretty much three ways to go about it.
One is the way of the 1991 Revival, i.e. to essentially tell exactly the same story updated. The pitfall here is--why? Sure, individual actors will bring their own interpretations and by necessity some details will change (Willie being Mrs. Johnson's nephew for example), but you are pretty much telling the exact some story in serial format all over again. This, imho, can work very well with a single story but in terms of series becomes more problematical. Offhand, I cannot think of a single example of this working in terms of a t.v. series. Films and plays, yes. But not a t.v. series.
Second is what I call The Next Generation option, rather like that of ST:TNG, which Magnus and Goober are advocating. Quite simply, you make a sequel. The problem there lies in creating a continuity that the non-fan can follow. This is far from insurmountable, however. One need only look at the new series of Doctor Who to see a success story in that respect. In particular, the series' producers went with the decision to use a new character from whom fresh audience members could be re-introduced to the mythology. Could this work for DS? I say "Yes! And again, Yes!" I might even start a thread about how to do precisely that...hmmmmm... [ghost_cool]
Third is what I've already offered, the same approach with which Battlestar: Galactica was remade, along with the numerous t.v. series dealing with Superman, including everything from Lois and Clarke to today's Smallville. You re-imagine them, shuffling the elements into something fresh. Herein lies my own suggestion. Not, with respect, a carbon copy or simple retelling but a genuine creation of something new from old elements. To use an analogy, this would be akin to comparing the motion picture Bram Stoker's Dracula to the Bela Lugosi version. Yeah, they're both based on the same material, have many of the same characters and a very similar plot, but fundamentally they are very different versions.
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Yes, whenever I do think about my own reimagining, I do everything I possibly can to make it different, but still DS. I would still start out with the murder of Bill Malloy, but with a completely different culprit. I was also combining quite a few characters into one. Should I write it, it wouldn't be as drastically different as what Zahir wrote in his first post, but it'd be quite different from the original series, too; actually, it would deviate very wildly in some parts.
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What would be the minimum that it would take to make a new Dark Shadows be recognizably Dark Shadows both to the already existing fans and also to those who have heard of it but never watched it?
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Someone with the same sensibilities and priorities making it would give it the spirit of DS. I should clarify, Goober, that I'm really against the idea of retelling the original story at all, whether the whole thing is retooled or not. I want the sequel series. I don't put forward the new Dr Who as the ideal way to do that, but it certainly shows that it can be done with a great deal of public acceptance.
Recently, Sky Television in the UK announced that it's doing at least two 60-minute new Blakes Seven episodes, as a relaunch of the immortal 1978-82 SF series. It's a retelling though, reintroducing Blake and crew from the beginning of the story. I'm utterly uninterested. That kind of series I see as being in competition with the original, a sort of attempt at a replacement (with those glitzier effects that people think are so important), and I like the B7 I have. I'm that way with DS too. Give me a sequel... reboots are evil.
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I have to agree. A well done sequel can be appreciated apart from the original, and for it's own merits. A re-make/re-telling will beg too much comparison to the original, and no one will be completely satisfied.
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Recently, Sky Television in the UK announced that it's doing at least two 60-minute new Blakes Seven episodes, as a relaunch of the immortal 1978-82 SF series. It's a retelling though, reintroducing Blake and crew from the beginning of the story. I'm utterly uninterested. That kind of series I see as being in competition with the original, a sort of attempt at a replacement (with those glitzier effects that people think are so important), and I like the B7 I have.
Ah, another Blakes 7 fan. I've managed to hook a few Dark Shadows fans on it courtesy of my 20 + year old off PBS tapes. Interesting that Sky TV is now planning something. Last I heard was that the attempt a few years back fell apart shortly after Darrow was no longer associated with the project. I wonder whether TPTB will appreciate that, like DS, the strength of the show wasn't in the whiz bang special effects, but in the strong storytelling.
Jeannie
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Yes, telling the original story again isn't very interesting, no matter how many tweaks there are, which is why that story of mine is not worth writing. If something relies too heavily on the source material, there's an overwhelming sense of deja vu; that's one of the reasons I dislike the revival; I don't feel they changed enough from the original to truly warrant making the series. As I said, on film, I'm fine with an adaptation of the original series. But on TV, I'd probably want a sequel series, as well; something set in the same continuity as the original series and featuring some of the same characters, but telling a completely new story that we've never seen before.
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In order for Dark Shadows to still be Dark Shadows, it needs the same heart. That heart is really the love of Barnabas and Josette. The character of Barnabas is really who he is because of Josette and her death. He constantly tries to re-create her; he wants to find her again desperately. If you don't have that crucial story element, you don't have Dark Shadows. No matter how many bizarre things happened during the original series, the main element that tied them all together was Barnabas and his search for his lost love (from his introduction onward): The kidnapping of Maggie, 1795, Adam, 1897 (Parts 1 and 2), the Leviathans. In 1970PT, Josette played a crucial role, because one of the main reasons Barnabas was so intrigued with this alternate world was because he learned from the book that he married Josette in that time band. Josette was even instrumental after KLS left the show. It was because of Josette that the Angelique/Barnabas story of 1840 happened. The love of Barnabas and Josette even carried over into 1841PT, even though one character was dead and the other was played by a different actress.
If you don't have the love of Barnabas and Josette, you don't have original conflict, without original conflict you don't really have an original story. You can have a sequel to Dark Shadows, but if it doesn't have the same heart, it won't be the Dark Shadows we know. No matter how hard the writers could try to carry over the same feeling and ambiance of the original, if they don't carry over Barnabas and Josette, it will be a different show, even though it shares some story elements with Dark Shadows.
Let's take Night of Dark Shadows for example. I love the film. I think it is a great new story for the Collins family. However, if Night of Dark Shadows was to be made today with completely different actors, it wouldn't really be recognized as being "Dark Shadows." It's a whole new story that takes place in the same setting as "Dark Shadows," has some of the same character names, but it's different. What made Night of Dark Shadows work in 1971 was the fact that we knew all of the actors as being part of Dark Shadows. There was a gothic atmosphere and storyline, but without the actors, it could have been "just another Horror movie." It wasn't though, because it used the actors we knew, and that is how we identify that film as being Dark Shadows. Because we can't have the same wonderful actors or the truly awesome production style of the original show today, the way you have to look at it is this: What parts of the story can you remove, change the names of the characters, and make a new story for, and still clearly recognize iit as Dark Shadows?
There are two. The first is the arrival of Victoria Winters, primarily because this was a truly original storyline. You can change all the names of these characters and toss them in a different series, while keeping the same storyline, but it would still be recognized as the story of Art Wallace, the first story of Dark Shadows: An orphan arrives in a small fishing town to become governess to the heir of a mysterious estate, a mansion filled with the secrets of those who live there. That's Dark Shadows no matter how you look at it. The second is Barnabas's search for Josette. Certainly the story of searching for and trying to re-create a lost love has been done before, but never in the fashion of Dark Shadows. Never before did a vampire have the depth Barnabas Collins had. Never before had the search for lost love been so unique. Cursed by a witch, a vampire finds himself trapped in a world 200 years from the one he knew. Yet, even though 200 years have past from the time he was chained in his coffin, he still loves one woman, the woman the same witch who cursed him took away. He vows to find her again, to make her the bride in death that he could never have in life. (While adding Frid's "reluctant vampire" to the mix, of course.) Distinctly Barnabas and Josette, clearly Dark Shadows.
Let's see what other stories there are... Dr. Hoffman trying to cure Barnabas? Nope, not original; done before in House of Dracula. Adam and Eve? Nope. Also done before by (Shelley and) Universal: Frankenstein and the Bride of Frankenstein. How about the werewolf and the search for a cure... Again, Universal did it first. The haunting of Collinwood in 1969? Turn of the Screw. My point is Dark Shadows itself relied so heavily on material that has been done before that the only elements that are uniquely Dark Shadows are the original characters, the two main original stories, and the original cast/production/music. Someone could carry over "non-Barnabas and Josette"/"non-Victoria arrival" elements of Dark Shadows, but those elements would be carried over from an earlier source. There could never be a new Dark Shadows that didn't have Barnabas and Josette, because it wouldn't be the Dark Shadows we have come to know. You can have a sequel to the series, but if it didn't have Barnabas and Josette, you could give it a new name altogether: The House Where Death Walks, Shadows on the Hill. You could even give it an old name: Frankenstein, Turn of the Screw, The Wolf Man... There can be a new series that carries over elements of Dark Shadows and not be named Dark Shadows. Likewise, a new series named Dark Shadows wouldn't necessarily be the Dark Shadows we know without the crucial elements, without Barnabas and Josette.
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The first is the arrival of Victoria Winters, primarily because this was a truly original storyline. You can change all the names of these characters and toss them in a different series, while keeping the same storyline, but it would still be recognized as the story of Art Wallace, the first story of Dark Shadows: An orphan arrives in a small fishing town to become governess to the heir of a mysterious estate, a mansion filled with the secrets of those who live there. That's Dark Shadows no matter how you look at it.
An important element of DS, yes, but I wouldn't say that Victoria's story is original-- the frank but dependable orphan turned governess, hired to teach the sweet but spoiled heir at his mysterious mansion while attracting the wealthy older man she meets has long been attributed to Jane Eyre.
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How many different re-tellings have there been to Dracula? To The Turn of the Screw? What about Prisoner of Zenda or Frankenstein or even The Four Feathers? What makes the various adaptations of these stories worth checking out? IMHO, two things only--the actual quality of the production, and the differences from other versions.
That is how I feel about DS. I've actually seen four versions, if you count the movie HODS. Apart from the original series, and the 1991 revival, there was also the Off Off Broadway play done in the 1980s when I lived in NYC. Each was interesting, with its quirks and flaws and insights.
As far as my own notion (described above), please note I kept both elements Cousin_Barnabas so longed for. My notes for this idea did have an odd "take" on Josette's story that I didn't include above but which I include here:
Back in 1795, Josette DuPres came to Collinwood as part of an arranged marriage between herself and Jeremiah Collins. Trouble reared its head almost immediately because he met and almost instantly fell in love with Jeremiah's young nephew, Barnabas. He felt the same way about her, but there was little either one of them could do against the combined wills of their families. Finally--and unknown to Barnabas--Josette asked her maidservant Angelique if there was anything she could do. Angelique, she knew, was a powerful wielder of magic but remained reluctant to do as Josette begged--to find a way for her and Barnabas to be together. Finally, Angelique wove a spell to combine their destinies together in unbreakable bonds for all time. But she warned Josette that magic is wild, untamed and will do as it wills. The results are not to be predicted. Josette didn't care.
Not long after this, Josette was attacked by a bat and fell deathly ill. Her death sent the entire estate into mourning, but to Barnabas' shock she returned from the dead--as a vampire! She claimed him, draining his blood night after night until he too succumbed. However, by that time Joshua Collins had figured out some of what was going on. He hid his son's coffin, chaining him within. When Barnabas was rescued, all those years and decades later, he had no idea what became of Josette. And he is looking for her still...
There was all sorts of other things, but I thought to address the question "What about Josette?" in my outlined idea.
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Just chiming in to say I'm a huge fan of Blake's 7 and had seen something vague in Jacqueline Pearce's blog about a new version. Perhaps if it is a hit, there will finally be an official release of the series on DVD here in North America.
I think many DS fans would enjoy Blake's 7 due to the theatricality and flamboyance of much of the series. I mean of course the original series. The new one is probably going to look a lot like Firefly, I would guess, which is kind of an interesting homage since I believe that Blake's 7 was an inspiration for Joss Whedon's original story on Firefly. Blake's 7 definitely was a huge influence on Babylon 5.
G.
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Zahir, I really like your take on a new series. It's really fresh. I was addressing more the notion of a next generation type series with my very long post.
I do like your Josette angle. Does it mean that Barnabas still blames Angelique for the death of Josette, and that he wants Josette to be his again?
Oh, and Midnite, I know Jane Eyre is the main influence for this type of story, but I was referring to all of the goings-on at Collinwood along with Vicki's arrival, such as Liz's secret and Burke's revenge.
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I hadn't quite made up my mind about what Barnabas thought might have happened, or how much he knew. But I suspected that Josette had probably been killed and her ghost haunted Collinwood, at least for now.
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I like your ideas, Zahir, but I have to come down on the side of Cousins Magnus and Goober (wow, there's a sentence you don't read every day :) ). I'd much prefer a "Next Generation" take on a new series, either daytime or prime time.
I've jotted notes for such a beast myself, beginning right after the funeral of Elizabeth, who find found some personal happiness and lived to a ripe old and peaceful age. I think I may have used Sam Hall's TV Guide "epilogue" to the series as a starting point and then flashed forward to the modern time. It's been a while since I dug up those notes... :)
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That's fine. "Different strokes..." and all that. But I do think that any attempt at DS:TNG will have some inherent problems. One is that the backstory is so complex, yet relatively unknown. This leaves the producers with only a few realistic options. First would be to ignore the backstory as much as feasible. Another would be to create a new backstory--i.e. much like the novels and the first two movies were different timelines altogether from the television series. Still another might be to go with a similar notion and simply set the series in Parallel Time!
Another problem would be the lack of many iconic characters and/or relationships. Imagine Batman without Wayne Manor or Alfred. Or Superman minus Lois Lane. Suppose somebody made a new Star Trek and they simply decided not to even reference Vulcans or Klingons.
How does one have DS without Barnabas, Julia, Angelique, Josette, etc.? There are, to be sure, ways of getting around this. Simply recast and bring them back (although explaining how Julia could possibly still be alive is a bit of a puzzler--well, alive and active). Reincarnate them in one way or another, which would also involve recasting. Or you could simply re-invent the iconography of DS. We might meet another Collins suffering under some kind of curse, with a physician of the opposite sex (or the same--this is 2008) trying to cure them, at least partially out of (unrequited?) love. Entwined in this curse could be some other love triangle, including a powerful and dangerous individual with more lives than any dozen cats. But the danger is in becoming nothing more than a retread, a formulaic story-telling with no surprises or real passion.
Still--it could be done.
But my point is, you can take BSG route just as well and I suspect would find it easier than the TNG one. It would also, I suspect, be easier to sell (at least until and unless the new movie is some kind of gi-normous hit).
Either way, I think we all agree that if a new DS series were done well, then anything else is entirely secondary. Quality is not dependent on any particular "take" on how to re-do DS so long as it is workable and offers the opportunity to explore the characters and story. However anyone did it, the idea is to do it well.
Meanwhile, I enjoy exercising my imagination.
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I think we all agree that if a new DS series were done well, then anything else is entirely secondary. Quality is not dependent on any particular "take" on how to re-do DS so long as it is workable and offers the opportunity to explore the characters and story. However anyone did it, the idea is to do it well.
Precisely.
Meanwhile, I enjoy exercising my imagination.
And that's exactly what topics like this are for. [ghost_wink]
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I found some notes and thought folks might enjoy seeing who I cast in my imagination. [ghost_tongue2]
Barnabas Collins = Jonathan Rhys Myers (The Tudors, Gormenghast)
Roger Collins = James Spader (Boston Legal, The Secretary)
Elizabeth Collins Stoddard = Marcia Cross (Desperate Housewives)
Carolyn Stoddard = Rachel Bella (The Ring, The Crucible)
Daphne Collins = Ellen Page (X-Men 3, Juno)
Victoria Winters = Amber Benson (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
Maggie Evans = Elizabeth Harnois
Joe Haskell = Jared Padelecki (Supernatural)
Rev. Trask = Roy Doctice (Beauty and the Beast)
Angelique = Gina Torres (Firefly)
Laura Collins/Cassandra Blair = Rose McGowan (Charmed)
Burke Devlin = Julian McMahon (Nip/Tuck)
Roxanne Drew = Neve Campbell (Party of Five)
Dr. Dave Woodard = Richard Schiff (West Wing)
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Of that list, Zahir, I only recognize Amber Benson, James Spader, and Jonathan Rhys Myers. :) Gods, I feel old...or maybe I am just too disconnected with current pop culture....
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Just because I'm a show-off...
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3145/dswalldy5.th.jpg) (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dswalldy5.jpg)
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Roger Collins = James Spader (Boston Legal, The Secretary)
I like it!
Victoria Winters = Amber Benson (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
Yes, another excellent choice. Those eyes...
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Just because I'm a show-off...
Very nice. Though you have JRM's look all wrong:
[wink2]
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My vision?
There should be three movies.
The Release Of Barnabas, it would take place today.
The Beginning, it would take place 175 years ago.
The Cure, it would take place today.
Cast
Barnabas.............................Johnny Depp
Dr. Hoffman.........................Cate Blanchett
Carolyn Stoddard.................Charlize Theron
Willie Loomis........................Giovanni Ribisi
Professor Stokes..................Jeffery Combs
Roger Collins........................Kelsey Grammer
Sheriff Patterson..................Gary Cole
Rev. Trask............................Jerry Lacy I think he can still play the part.
Mrs. Johnson........................Marsha Mason
Elizabeth Collins Stoddard....Kathryn Leigh Scott
Maggie Evans........................Kate Hudson
Angelique..............................Julianne Moore
Victoria Winters.....................Jennifer Connelly
Quentin Collins......................Keifer Sutherland
That's all I can come up with so far.
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If I were making the now movie, before the credits, we would see members of the Collins family (the original cast in the TV show) looking into the at other people with their names. Pro. Stokes as played by Thayer David would explain parallel time as the credits roll. We would then pass into the other room and the original cast would disappear leaving us with the cast from the new movie. We would then be shown the title "Dark Shadows" and the new story would start. [ghost_cheesy]
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Rose definately can play evil good so I can see her as Laura/Cassandra. :) I just don't see Amber Benson as Victoria. And trust me I am a HUGE Amber fan! I just don't think she has the chops to play Victoria but that is just my humble opinion!
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I like that intro a lot, borgosi, but I can just see the DS newcomers leaving the theater, saying, "Who the hell were those people in the grainy clips at the beginning of the movie?" [ghost_cheesy] Of course, it would be a great nod to the original's fans.
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I guess they'll have to watch the original show to find out. [ghost_cool]
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Taelor, I respect your opinion but also disagree. I've seen her in a lot of things other than BTVS and was mighty impressed. Honestly, a lot of the things she's been in have sucked (like a perfectly dreadful flick called Taboo) but even then she shone. I've seen her play drunk, a vampire, a serial killer, a hippie, etc. and given the chance she really can do a lot.
Borgosi, no offense but Charlize Theron is a tad old for Carolyn. Brilliant actress, though. I see her as more like Angelique. Hadyn Patteniere would be good, though. Or perhaps Mila Kunis? But Kelsey Grammer as Roger? Perfect! Jennifer Connelly is a magnificent choice, both hauntingly beautiful as well as a fearless actress. But Victoria would have to be older for that to work. Which of course it could.
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I guess I tend to make them all a little older. I'm older so my taste lean that way and I really would hate to see a "WB" type cast. I'm hoping for a more adult movie and not one for 15 and 16 year olds.
I think it would cool to save these threads and see if we get any right when the movie is cast.
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Hey, I've nothing against older. I'm simply pointing out that some of these characters are supposed to be quite young. Carolyn is at most a college student. Elizabeth is supposed to have a daughter around twenty years old. How old was Nancy Barrett when she started on the show?
In my outline for a new DS I was going to have Burke interested in Liz.
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I think it would cool to save these threads and see if we get any right when the movie is cast.
Oh, they're not going anywhere. [ghost_grin]
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Taelor, I respect your opinion but also disagree.
I also respectfully disagree as I have watched everything Amber has done since Buffy. I don't exactly know how to word it but Amber (to me) does not have the Victoria quality nor the range to play her. I feel the same way about her as I do Sarah Michelle Gellar (who I adore and have followed since Buffy) who Goober had suggested for Angelique. It's cool though we all have our own opinions and ideas and that is what makes the boards so much fun. [ghost_wink] Really the thought of any Buffy/Angel alum being in DS makes me cringe. And TRUST ME I am a BUFFY/ANGEL fanatic! I will get back to you though if I come up with any ideas. We have a movie casting thread already. So is this thread completely devoted to a new small screen version of DS??
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I forget how much of this I may have said already... Re DS: Next Gen-- Skilled writers could pare down any necessary bits of backstory or references to the past and insert them in such a way that it would all be intriguing, partly because they leave some out, which also saves time and keeps them from getting bogged down in exposition.
Maybe I'm alone, but my only interest in any revival would be the fleshing out of the original story and finding out what happens next. Sure, one of these "reboots" that people love these days could be done well, I suppose, but I like my DS, and I don't need another one. I'd rather see a completely original great series or film, than that.
As for "icons", DS had no "icons" to start with-- no series does. It made them. A new DS will not be viable unless it can tell new stories and create new characters... otherwise it's feeding off original DS's achievements and creativity too much, and will be stale from the start. Continuing the Next Gen analogy, in their first season, they appropriated one plot element after another from original Trek stories, doing stale contrived versions of them. They stopped doing that though, and stood on their own. And they didn't need "icons" like Spock or Kirk.
I'd like at least a couple of the older actors reprising roles, and a recasting or two if it's good for the story, but mainly new Collinses etc.. And no models pretending to be actors!
Now just for kicks.....How about reacasting with the entire West Wing cast? I'll expand on this later....
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I always liked the "Next Gen." idea, the only trouble I see with is this. Dan included many classic horror stories in DS and it would be hard to do a new DS without using those classic stories in some way. I really don't want to see a soap that's inspired by todays horror stories. I just don't see it working.
Now the stories could be told but told very different. The love story could be between a Dr. Frankenstein type, his creature, and his female creature. The original idea for the Bride Of Frankenstein movie was that, unknown to him, the Dr. would use his wife's brain for the female creature. This would cause her to be in love with the Dr. and his creature that she was created for. Of course the Dr. would reject her just as she would reject the creature. There's a twisted love story there that could work if done right.
They could do a Jekyll and Hyde love story. Jekyll loves her and she loves him but he, Jekyll, rejects her because he's afraid of what Hyde could do to he. A werewolf love story would be very close to the same thing.
They would have to the central charater love story or it would just seem like they're doing the original again. If they're going to do that I'd prefer that they do that and do it "full speed ahead", "no holds bared" and not do it half way.
I just want it to have the spirit of the original and I think it needs that love story conflict for it to work.
Have you ever seen the movie "Ladyhawk"? That could be a good starting place. A man who is cursed to be a wolf at night, his lover who is cursed to be a hawk durning the day, so that they can never see each other, and the man who put the curse on them because he's in love with her.
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I haven't seen that... Anyway, the whole idea of doing a series is based on the idea that it's possible to come up with new stories. Otherwise why do it? A new story can be defined as taking established themes or premises and putting new twists on them. What I don't want is the DC rolodex, the cliche of the month, which was resorted to way too often, without enough of a reworking of the old idea.
I think that the good writers may be unemployed and starving someplace while those who crank out shallow cliched shows starring models get rich. Buit if we had genuinely good writers, they'd surprise us by solving these dilemmas we find insoluble, because, well, they're better at it than we are. A really fresh, good series is like a miracle. I'd love to see a new DS sequel series be that. We won't be able to predict what solutions they'll come up with, and that's as it should be.
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I think they have good writers that have learned that most producers want a story that they know people like and that causes them to keep re-writing the same stories. If you write something to original you take a chance that people aren't going to like it. It's like the NEA, artist see what gets grants so they change that their art to fit that mold. Which causes a kind of paradox. Like all art film has to be funded but when you fund art you control the artist and cause self censorship. Anyway, back on topic.
Ladyhawke came out in 1985. It stars Rutger Hauer as a knight and Michelle Pfeiffer as his lady love. They have been cursed by a man who also loved Pfeiffer's character. Matthew Broderick plays a young thief that escapes from a prison that helps Rutger's character try to find a way to break the curse. It's a great love story and IMHO it shares the same spirit that DS has. If you get the chance check it out.
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Magnus, I get it. We all get it. You don't want to see a new DS unless it is a continuation of the old. Does it really bother so much that other people simply disagree and would like to take a trip in the imagination down a path not to your taste?
And for the record, I never mentioned "TREK without Spock" but "TREK without Vulcans and Klingons" because in terms of the TREK universe those are iconic. Just as in DS the Collins family, the Collinwood estate, the sense of the past reaching out to hurt or shape the present, etc. are iconic to DS. On this very board you've complained about ideas for a DS series that lacked the things that made DS itself. Others have pointed out other iconic themes--the cursed love triangle that transcends time, the governess at the heart of mystery and desire, the protection of the Collins Heir, etc. It would be like STAR WARS without Jedi Knights (as opposed to specific Knights), or Hercule Poirot stories set in the modern era (been tried, didn't work).
On another note, I was generally thinking of (for lack of a better term) television actors for a television series. Also, it seems to me that redoing a show like DS adds a factor which is lovely in theatre--that is, we get to see different actors do their takes on the same part. I am one of over a dozen people I have seen play Malvolio from Twelfth Night live, and it is really lovely/startling to see varying 'takes' on such a juicy role. Ditto thousands of other parts. I have seen four different men play Barnabas Collins (five if you count the Big Finish audio dramas) and will almost certainly eventually see two others--Alec Newman and Johnny Depp. I quite like the idea of seeing still more.
How many ways are there to adapt Dracula? Look at Max Shrek, Bela Lugois, Carlos Villar, Christopher Lee, Denholm Elliot (ok, that one is rare and obscure, but worth the look), Marc Warren, Louis Jourdain and Gary Oldman. Or any of the many adaptations of Jane Austen novels. Take a gander at Lawrence Olivier's film of Henry V and then at Kenneth Branaugh's version of the same. Rent Al Pacino's Looking for Richard then rend Ian McKellan's movie Richard III.
Mind you--here's a fun idea. What if a new DS weren't on television or the big screen? What if a new DS were created for the web? Look at Dr.Horrible's Sing-A-Long Blog or The Guild or even the online audio drama Wormwood (a town that frankly makes Collinsport look a little bit like Mayberry). How long before technology allows us to to even more amazing things with seemingly-ordinary desktop computers?
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Have you ever seen the movie "Ladyhawk"? That could be a good starting place. A man who is cursed to be a wolf at night, his lover who is cursed to be a hawk during the day, so that they can never see each other, and the man who put the curse on them because he's in love with her.
I haven't watched the movie but I saw "Charmed's' version in a Season Three episode. Only difference is the man was an owl at night and the woman was a wolf during the day. The only time they saw each other (in their true form) was as the sun was coming up. They were cursed by a demon that loved the lady. [ghost_wink] Charmed didn't always rip stuff off however, I think MOST genre shows end up taking old myth, tales, stories and putting their own twist on it. I personally loved their take on Valkyries since I had never saw anything about that race of demi gods.
A bit off topic but I will have to try and see that movie. [ghost_wink]
Zahir I don't think Magnus meant any harm he just has a different view.
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I don't think he meant any harm, either; he simply feels that if there's going to be a new Dark Shadows, it should be a new Dark Shadows, as opposed to a retelling. Personally, I'd love to see either a sequel series or a retelling, as long as said retelling had enough differences to make it stand out from the original series. The fact that the revival didn't deviate too much from the original show/HoDS was one of my main gripes with the show.
EDIT: I have seen Ladyhawk. It was good, and I can definitely see Dan Curtis saying, "Yeah, let's do that," had DS been running at the time it was released. [ghost_cheesy]
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the revival didn't deviate too much from the original show/HoDS
That was purely and simply because of DC's involvement. However, DC claimed that supposedly he was going to back away had the show been renewed, and the writers did have ideas to take the second season's storylines in new and totally different directions. But, again, alas...
For what it's worth, DC also wanted the '04 pilot and the concept for that series to be more like hoDS. ::) Thankfully he was overruled by John Wells and Mark Verheiden.
I'm quite honestly relieved that DC will have no involvement with the Depp/DS film.
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I agree MB. I have have said this before and this is no disrespect to Dan, because he started it all and I have GREAT respect for him and his memory. But the fact that he isn't going to be a part of the new movie is a blessing. He famously stated that by the time the original DS ended he didn't have another idea in his head. I was re watching DS RESSURECTED last night because I was so excited about Watching Project Two and Dan had planned to get the 1991 show started and set the style and then turn it over to other writers, directors, producers etc. If '91 had lasted I truly think him relinquishing his hold over the show could have given the production team reign to tell some amazing stories. It's excruciatingly sad that the fans didn't get to see what could have been done with the show, the possibilities could have been endless. I think I have stated this before but I held a long standing grudge against NBC until Heroes started a couple years ago. I TRULY boycotted them for the stupidity.
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That was purely and simply because of DC's involvement. However, DC claimed that supposedly he was going to back away had the show been renewed, and the writers did have ideas to take the second season's storylines in new and totally different directions. But, again, alas...
Oh, I know that. I'm just talking about what did make it to the airwaves.
Many excellent TV series have been canceled unfairly - ABC killed Twin Peaks and My So-Called Life, Fox killed Firefly and Wonderfalls, Showtime killed Dead Like Me... What are you gonna do, though? I did still watch Lost and Bones, despite the fact that the networks are evil. Of course, it doesn't really affect me with my current lack of cable. :/
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Magnus, I get it. We all get it. You don't want to see a new DS unless it is a continuation of the old. Does it really bother so much that other people simply disagree and would like to take a trip in the imagination down a path not to your taste?
No. I must have repeated myself, and sounded more insistent than I was. With this eye thing of mine, I don't always read or re-read everything on a thread.
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It's okay Magnus we still loves ya. I tend to repeat myself at times when I am sleep deprived and probably shouldn't be posting at all. [ghost_wink]
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The problem with coming at this thing with supernatural stories is that you only have so many classics to use before you have to really dip deep into the well of those stories that aren't as familiar to people. These take more set up, and can be easier to pull off because you have more creative freedom with them.
But, what needs to be focused on in order for a new DS series to take place is the CHARACTERS. And I'm not talking about their possible supernatural illnesses. I think a DS: The Next Gen would be a good starting point, and so would a complete reboot of the series (as in new actors playing our familiar characters). The thing about DS: TNG is that you can have a completely fresh story with new (and old) characters, and still have little easter eggs throughout the series that are callbacks to the original show that we would catch.
If there were a DS: TNG, my vision is this:
David is master of Collinwood, but isn't happy about it. He feels as if he's been forced into it because Carolyn cultivated an interest in the paranormal and began traveling the world, teaching, learning, and living, so after Elizabeth died, David was the next one in line to take over the estate. He also runs the Cannery and Fishing Business, and is days are long, stressful, and fraught with problems. While he does have his wife to help run Collinwood, she is becoming increasingly stressed as well, and angry with David, because he comes home in nothing but anger much of the time, and takes it out on her. Not to mention the fact that he feels obligated to go over the Collinwood business when he gets home. Translation: Their marriage is falling apart, and she is thinking about divorce.
Now, if Roger is still alive, he'd have to be recast. I'd prefer to see his original pompous, highly aristocratic manor reduced to being in a wheelchair, and needing assistance from someone else to do most daily things. This would and could be mined for comic relief. His and David's relationship still wouldn't be a good one, because Roger always tries to offer up suggestions about what David should do with the business, and David feels as if his father doesn't trust him to do what needs to be done with the business.
David would have some kids, one or two, and they would provide your typical teenage storylines. Here is where the supernatural things could be introduced--the daughter is dating a guy who has a short temper only to discover he's a werewolf. The son gets entranced by a witch-like girl who takes him home to meet mom who is really Angelique!
Carolyn would return in the first or second episode, finding Collinwood and the life of her cousin not doing so well. Carolyn comes back with bad news--in her travels, she stumbled across Barnabas, who informed her that Julia has just died. Carolyn has elected (basically forced) an aging Baranbas to return to Collinwood with her, despite his vehement refusals, claiming that if he comes back bad things will most certainly happen. Once he is back, and staying at Collinwood, despite his protests that he'd rather live at the Old House, he feels a familiar urge that he hasn't felt in decades: the urge for blood.
Baranbas ends up in the hospital one evening, suffering from a condition that the doctors cannot diagnose. Late one night, a hot young nurse enters the aging man's room, and he makes her his victim.
Soon after, a young man shows up at Collinwood, one who bears a striking resemblance to Barnabas, and says that he is Barnabas' son. He claims that the hospital contacted him after his father's death, and he is here to meet his family, back from studying abroad.
Things are beginning to heat up at Collinwood...and old ghosts are returning to haunt.
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Carolyn comes back with bad news--in her travels, she stumbled across Barnabas, who informed her that Julia has just died.
:( However, I am not necessarily saying that is a bad thing. I just hate the thoughts of Julia being dead. To tell you the truth though Brandon I absolutely love your take on it. KUDOS! Are you thinking daytime serial or nightime show?
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Personally, I don't really think any of the characters whose actors aren't able to reprise their roles should appear in a sequel series. In a remake series, sure, different actors are necessary. But the idea of a recast Barnabas appearing alongside members of the original cast is just thoroughly unappealing to me. The only real exceptions I can see are people like David Henesy, Denise Nickerson, and Kathy Cody; the actors who were very young in the original series and can be recast without too much damage.
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Taeylor--I think it would work as either, as has been proven in the past with the original series and the 91 remake, but my version was envisioned as a primetime drama. And I'm glad you like my ideas!
Goober--Your comment, I'm assuming, refer to the appearence of Roger and Barnabas in my take on the revision of the series. I think we could get away with Roger being recast, but and we've dealt with and will deal with Barnabas and everyone being recast. But I like Jon Frid as Barnabas, so that's why I kept the "older" version of him to one episode in my idea--this way, his "son" could be introduced, with a different name (instead of Barnabas Collins, maybe Bramwell Collins, Brandon, Ethan, George, Goober, Jeff, Alex, etc etc) and a different actor playing them.
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Oh, I'm in no way criticizing your idea. I'd find recasting roles a bit disconcerting in a sequel series, but I'd be able to put up with it. I'm still going to see the Dead Like Me film despite Laura Harris being recast with Sarah Wynter.
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I don't mind being criticized, so that's why I responded.
And I do agree that recasting roles can be disconcerting because depending on the new actors take on things it will take a while to get used to their portrayal versus the original actor's take on the character.
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I must confess I think I would enjoy a reboot as well as a continuation. The New Doctor Who Series, I think, kind of gives one the best of both those worlds. However, I think if a new DS series were to be mooted here and now, a reboot would be the best option. ST:TNG I think succeeded not only because of the success of TOS in syndication, but also because by the time TNG was broadcast, the show had also enjoyed 4 (or 5) successful feature films that reached a broad audience and familiarized the concept of the show.
Unfortunately, and as others have pointed out, in that respect DS is probably more similar to Battlestar Galactica, which I'm told, as I have never watched either version, the reboot is a great success.
So, reboot? Bring it on!
OTOH, how about a few DS films with Depp and co. set in the 60-70s, followed by a modern "continuation" on prime time TV? [ghost_tongue2] Perhaps exec produced by Burton or Depp?
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Just for fun (and to get it out of my system [ghost_tongue2] ) here is another idea... (oh noooooo!)
Collinwood
In a small town in Maine is a large estate, the domain of the wealthy Collins family. The central mansion is a gutted ruin, the result of a fire nearly fifty years ago. The family itself lives mostly in the original Collinwood mansion, sometimes called the Old House. But the Old House is getting a little crowded, so family patriarch Quentin Collins (David Selby) and his wife Maggie (KLS) have decided to move to Cliff House, which is near the estate (also known as the House By The Sea). It once belonged to civil war veteran Theodore Collins, who lived there as a recluse until his death in 1879. Boarded up for years, Quentin and Maggie have made its restoration something of a project.
This also serves to get them away from some arguments among their children. Daniel Collins (Kyle MacLachlan) is the current head of the family business, a no-nonsense type who tends to insist upon his own way. Like his father, he is a widower, having married a glamorous young woman who died in a car accident. So Daniel has raised his daughter Esther Collins (Kristen Bell) alone, and she has a similar, almost icy personality in many ways. Both are, however, extremely protective of their family and friends. Esther is also keeping a secret--she is gay. She and her father disagree about recent efforts to mount an archeological dig into the ruins of the old mansion, which was over 250 years old when it burned and whose cellars are relatively intact. He opposes the idea, while she quietly approves and is curious about her family history.
Dr. Amy Collins Woodard (Carl Gugino) has grown up to be a teacher of history at the local college, married to a Sheriff Andrew Woodard (Taye Diggs). They have no children and are somewhat estranged from Daniel, not least because she favors exploring the ruins of the big mansion.
Joseph Collins (Matt Keeslar) is the only son of Quentin and Maggie, named for Maggie's best childhood friend who drowned. An artist who lives in Rose Cottage, he has achieved a little bit of a reputation for rather abstract paintings. He is very much in favor of archeologists looking into the estate. He and Daniel have odd, intense relationship. Each are frustrated yet deeply loyal to the other, affectionate and annoyed. There's also a lingering resentment over an unstated fact of live--Daniel was Quentin's favorite, while Joseph was Maggie's.
The archeologist who wants to explore the ruins is one Dr. Ellis Lang (Bradley Whitford), by all accounts an eccentric but brilliant figure. His assistant--and distant cousin to the elder two Collins siblings via their mother--is Amber Stokes (Nina Siemaszko), who shows a (to some) surprising and (to some) disturbing interest in the paranormal.
As work proceeds, several odd discoveries are made. One is a dead body, found in a trunk in a sub-basement, dating from the 1860s. It would seem to be that of Ariel Beaumont, who vanished in 1863. She had been the fiancee of Theodore Collins and he never got over her. She was evidently strangled, which leads Amber Stokes in particular to wonder by whom? Esther Collins seems fascinated and repulsed by the discovery, and comes to believe she may be a reincarnation of someone from that time (she is correct--in a past life she was Theodore Collins).
Maggie and Quentin, meanwhile, discover that Theodore had been experimenting with cross-breeding different plants and a few bulbs--remarkably--survive. But are extremely poisonous. Indeed, exposure to one of them begins to have an impact on Amy--she smells of lilacs, even her breath, but insects that bite her die. Soon her pet becomes ill. It is as if she is turning into a creature of poison (shades of Rapucinni's Daughter).
Just a little bit of exercise of the imagination. Comments appreciated. [ghost_smiley]
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Here is my comment: YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF AN IMAGINATION!
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[The following was submitted as a response to this post in the Depp/DS film topic:
-- Midnite]
I think Barnabas learning about our world should start out with a little humor but end up very, very sad, to the point that the viewer feels like crying for him.
I think he's look should echo the past. I think he should look timeless. Beautiful but worn, not old but more like an antique. Someone that others would be able to tell is different but not know how or why. His eyes would show the lonely years that he has seen pass. His walk, his manner, his voice would be elagent, like someone that knew Shakespeare and would be at home talking with him. Yet at the same time he should seem very smart, like he could keep up with Einstein. But above all he should look very, very lonely.
That's just my opinion.
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I am sure half the board will not agree with me but I thought Ben Cross was very elegant. Actually about % 85 of the board will probably not agree with me. [ghost_tongue]
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Being disagreed with is a good thing. It means you have a different point of view to contribute and life is all about very different points of view intersecting and combining, to me. In actual practice, people's points of view just collide generally, but I'm trying to be positive right this moment.
For me, Ben Cross is just a publicity photo of a very vertical craggy face. I think I saw episode one at the time but that's all. I decided perhaps too quickly that the soul of JF just wasn't there. "Elegance" isn't a quality I think about.
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I know this is getting a bit off topic but why would one want an actor to have the SOUL of Jonathan Frid in said actors version of Barnabas? [ghost_huh]
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Ben Cross was, no offense meant, too short to play Barnabas. My vision of Barnabas is a tall, 'imperially slim' (can't remember the name of the poem where I read that) man who exudes elegance but is also hauntingly lonely. I might have been swayed against Cross by his relationship with the comedic Willie in the 91 revival.
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I know this is getting a bit off topic but why would one want an actor to have the SOUL of Jonathan Frid in said actors version of Barnabas? [ghost_huh]
Not 'Frid's soul' specifically but as much 'soul' as Frid put into Barnabas.
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IMHO Ben Cross just came across as a mean Barnabas, I never felt bad for the guy. Maybe if the show had last that would have changed, maybe it was going to go in a different direction, I don't know but that show we have had a mean Barnabas. But that just my opinion.
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Again, it can all be traced back to DC, who in the '91 series wanted the dark/dangerous side of Barnabas emphasized over his sympathetic side. Thankfully it wasn't as blatant a dark/dangerous Barnabas as was in hoDS, which we have to recall was DC's template for Barnabas (the man is said to have screened hoDS numerous times in his office [ghost_rolleyes]), but certainly a bit more dark than he was in the original series. DC firmly believed that the '91 series was, in DC's own words, his "opportunity to get it right." I definitely think the sympathetic side is there - but any discussion of that here is definitely getting OT. [ghost_wink]
However, to get things back on topic, it will be very interesting to see how Barnabas' dark and sympathetic sides are balanced in the Depp/DS film. I could be wrong, but if the story ends up being a release from the coffin into a new century, as opposed to a story taking place in the past to depict the curse, I suspect the dark side of Barnabas will probably outweigh the sympathetic side - though certainly not to the degree of hoDS. Obviously they'll want Depp's Barn to be dark/dangerous, but they'll also want him to be appealing so that audiences will be brought into his story enough to want to know more about him and willing to invest in a franchise.
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My vision of Barnabas is a tall, 'imperially slim' (can't remember the name of the poem where I read that) man who exudes elegance but is also hauntingly lonely.
It sounds like your mental image of Barnabas may have been influenced a great deal by the poem (http://www.bartleby.com/104/45.html).
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Ben Cross was, no offense meant, too short to play Barnabas.
I'm guessing you're not going to like Depp as Barn either because he's an inch shorter than Cross.
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And Alec Newman is an inch shorter than Depp. (I thought he made for a fabulous Barnabas, btw.)
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(As do I)
I'm really looking forward to see what Depp will do with Barn.
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I am sure I would have loved Alec as well. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to see the pilot like most who have not been to the fest. I hope they show it in 2009 because I will definitely be there. As for height, in the immortal words of Victoria (AM) "I don't understand." But again I am getting off topic....
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I remember being startled when I met Jonathan Frid and realized he was my height. And I am not a tall man. Five foot eight inches.
And I agree with Magnus--the heart of a good performance as Barnabas is to let us (eventually) see into the depths of his soul.
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I agree with Magnus on that as well. The height thing I DO NOT GET. However, I am gonna look for a place to rebuttal the rest of the comments as I am totally getting off topic again.
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I remember being startled when I met Jonathan Frid and realized he was my height. And I am not a tall man. Five foot eight inches.
DS magazine articles from the late 60s (in Famous Monsters, TV Radio Talk, 16 Spec, etc.) listed Frid's height at 6'. I've never heard of that much height loss in a man, so perhaps he wasn't standing as straight as you thought?
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I think it more likely the magazines exaggerated.
While living in NYC, I had the good fortune to attend Mr. Frid's free performances of his one-man-shows at the Public Library downtown. I met him on at least six occasions. He was always my height. And his posture was admirable.
He also stood an inch or two (at least) above most of his co-stars in Arsenic and Old Lace on Broadway, which included Gary Sandy (of WKRP in Cinncinnatti). I remember I had a similar reaction to meeting most of the cast at my first DS Festival in NYC, realizing they were (almost) all on the short side. No wonder Barnabas seemed to tower over Angelique, Maggie, etc.
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Actually, Frid has often joked about how cramped he felt in Barnabas' coffin because he's 6 feet tall and the coffin was too short for him. [ghost_smiley] But again we're getting OT. [ghost_wink]
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No way that man was six feet tall. No way. [ghost_tongue]
But anyway--my earlier post suggested doing something a la Rappacinni's Daughter for a new DS. Methinks there are loads of other, untapped sources of supernatural plotlines. DS originally borrowed from Dracula (becoming, ironically, the template for at least two further versions of that tale), from Frankenstein and H.P.Lovecraft, as well as Jane Eyre and Turn of the Screw.
For example...
But what about Carmilla? Suppose instead of a male vampire seeking to recreate his long-lost love, we had a female vampire obsessed/in love with a young woman and trying not to feed on her too much? I always thought, alas, that [spoiler]Roxanne turned out to be a fairly dull vampire. No relationship of any kind with her victims, unlike Barnabas or Angelique or even Tom Jennings. Sadly, the kind of vampire Dan Curtis seemed to like. [ghost_angry][/spoiler]
Or what about a horror icon that has become really popular in Japan? I'm speaking of the Evil Little Girl, seen in films like Ringu (remade in America with Daveigh Chase, titled The Ring). Strangely powerful, seemingly unstoppable, and extremely destructive. Her "look" is of a slender girl in a white dress, with long black hair that obscures her face. Think of a vengeful, insane Sarah Collins. [ghost_smiley] In fact, it could be Sarah Collins--or some other child who died/suffered at Collinwood. Odds are there were plenty (recall we know next-to-nothing of what happened between 1841 and 1897-- or 1897 and 1967).
What does anyone else think?
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One part of my vision is seeing Barnabas bite someone (on screen) of the same sex. I was looking at my old DS 1991 Comics today and looking at Barnabas drinking from another male, well it was extremely erotic to say the least. I don't want to get to risque because I know we have younger posters. I just wanted to add that. It would be cool to see a girl vampire bite another girl on screen as well. It would be very progressive. I would just drop dead in the theater if I got to see Johnny Depp bite another male. So maybe it's best he doesn't since I desire to live! [ghost_wink]
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Despite the writers' constant assertions of "males never bite males, females never bite females," it happened a few times on the original show, such as [spoiler]Barnabas biting Nathan and Roxanne biting Maggie[/spoiler], so it actually wouldn't be new territory for DS.
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That is why I said I would like to see it (on screen) Goober. [ghost_wink] And that WOULD be new territory for Dark Shadows! :)
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Yeah, well also [spoiler]Barnabas bit Willie (both of them) and Sandor. And that guy in 1897, can't remember his name. With the mustache. [/spoiler]
I agree, though, that would be terribly erotic either way. As the series went on, it seemed to me that the biting did get more sensual. Certainly Carolyn in PT couldn't wait to feel those fangs again, and she wasn't the only one!
Curiously, a (former) friend in San Francisco who saw Interview With The Vampire once claimed that the filmmakers had taken all the homoeroticism out of that story. I still don't have any idea what he meant. Tom Cruise clutching Brad Pitt and sucking the blood out his throat sure looked homoerotic to me! Not to mention the way Lestat seduced that gorgeous young kid he chowed down on--!
Mind you, I don't see Barnabas doing anything like that. At least not the character we know. But in a reborn DS, we might see something like that and I for one think it'd be a good idea.
Oh, and if only it were a cable show, things could get really steamy...! [ghost_smiley]
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We did see Barnabas full-on attack a man in the '91 series. Though it was hardly in the same fashion as we saw his attacks on women. Hardly! And he really had no choice but to attack the man because of what he'd witnessed. But that is more than was ever depicted on the original show. And I seriously doubt that if it's necessitated in the plot, the new film would back away from depicting Barnabas attacking a man.
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I agree that its inclusion is a strong possibility. Many modern vampire films include some degree of homoeroticism; I highly doubt that Tim Burton would shy away from it.
And I didn't mention Willie earlier because, as far as I remember, Barnabas never bit him on the neck - he merely *cough* drained his arm of blood.
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Yeah, but [spoiler]he did bite PT William Loomis on the neck.[/spoiler]
Mind you, he also [spoiler]bit Willie, in the neck, in the 1991 Revival. But that never made a lot of sense to me. He's been sealed in his coffin how long? Wouldn't he have been hungry enough to drain Willie to the last drop? Or did Willie just not taste that good? Can you imagine just how bad he must have tasted that Barnabas stopped and said "Yech! I may be starving but I'll go find a meal elsewhere."[/spoiler]
Not that any of this was particularly erotic.
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I thought we saw Barnabas biting males, and other vampires doing so in others shows and films. Nothing about that ever seemed at all unusual or racy to me, but then, I always thought it was the 60s/70s sex obsession in all media and in all situations that gave rise to the idea that there was anything sexual about vampires feeding, in the first place.
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No way that man was six feet tall. No way.
Yes, I'm afraid so . . JF was six feet tall (probably has shrunk since as we do when we age). It even says said so on his driver's license the last time I saw it a few years ago when he was about to renew it. I had gone with him to see what the motor vehicle business was like in Canada.
Nancy
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He never seemed tall to me really, but I am 6 feet or half an inch short of it. Anyway, he probably seems more imposing and larger in storylines where he has power and is not a victim. He seems small in 1968 when he's being pushed around and given orders, and knocked to the floor, and scolded by Julia. When he gets back from Wyndcliffe he's a new man as I've realized just now in my viewing. I think he's integrated his past and present and has located his moral center and the will to put it into action in the world, using the strength of his knowledge and past experiences. If asked a viewer might conclude that he put on a little height at Wyndcliffe.
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Ben Cross was, no offense meant, too short to play Barnabas.
Possibly, but it might have been more historically accurate. People on the whole were shorter in the 18th century than now.
One of my favorite book series are the Saint Germain chronicles by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, and one of the things I love about her series is that her 4000 year old vampire Le Comte de Saint Germain, is described as a tall man in the book set in Nero's Rome, but in moderns times is actually quite short.
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I am sure half the board will not agree with me but I thought Ben Cross was very elegant.
I agree he was elegant and while in the main, I was satisfied with his portrayal, my only real criticism would be that he tended to chew the scenery as much as he chew the ingenues' necks, especially when he had the contacts and the fangs in...
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Ben Cross was, no offense meant, too short to play Barnabas.
Possibly, but it might have been more historically accurate. People on the whole were shorter in the 18th century than now.
Realistically, though, Cross is 5' 11" - only an inch shorter than Frid. And Depp is 5' 10". And when it comes to height, one or two inches one way or the other really isn't all that much.
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my only real criticism would be that he tended to chew the scenery as much as he chew the ingenues' necks, especially when he had the contacts and the fangs in...
And again, who do you think we can thank for that - particularly all the snarling? [ghost_wink] [ghost_rolleyes] And it's my one criticism of Cross' Barnabas, too. I've asked it dozens of times already, but WHAT was DC thinking?! Well, obviously the answer is he wanted Barnabas' animalistic nature to be depicted. But it was not a stylistic choice I would have made for him. And I hope to heaven it's not one that's repeated in the Depp/DS film...
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And I was just getting all enthused about 1991 DS.... I'm still optimistic but weon't look for BC as my big protagonist to identify with.
Dan Curtis's big idea for the character of Barnabas was for him to show up in the community, be bad, and bite more and more people until he was caught and destroyed, right? He held onto that, and when Barnabas became something else, he tried to "correct" things in HODS. Then he tried to "correct" it again in 1991 DS. As "visions" go, it doesn't really deserve all those second chances, does it? Isn't it just the typical generic vampire tale? I think that the thing that made Barnabas special was that he wasn't that generic vampire DC wanted.
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DC gets credit for wanting to try something different in daytime television and pushing ahead with that. That takes imagination and guts. However, IMO, DC never understood why DS charmed so many people. He had nothing do with the creation of Barnabas other than wanting a vampire on the show to create havoc and be killed off. The writers were the ones who took the vampire and developed the character.
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And I was just getting all enthused about 1991 DS.... I'm still optimistic but weon't look for BC as my big protagonist to identify with.
Dan Curtis's big idea for the character of Barnabas was for him to show up in the community, be bad, and bite more and more people until he was caught and destroyed, right? He held onto that, and when Barnabas became something else, he tried to "correct" things in HODS. Then he tried to "correct" it again in 1991 DS. As "visions" go, it doesn't really deserve all those second chances, does it? Isn't it just the typical generic vampire tale? I think that the thing that made Barnabas special was that he wasn't that generic vampire DC wanted.
Well, the vision of Barnabas in the '91 series is a far cry from the vision of him in hoDS. A FAR cry! Infinitely more sympathetic. But that's not a discussion to be had in this topic. But keep an open mind, Magnus, because the differences will be blatantly apparent once the '91 series' Watching Project gets underway...
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However, IMO, DC never understood why DS charmed so many people.
As longtime members of the forum know, I and others have often said that DS was more often successful in spite of DC, rather than because of him. And that's the reason I posted earlier in this topic about how honestly relieved I am that DC will have no involvement with the Depp/DS film.
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A few thoughts about Depp (since I'm always inclined to add my thoughts about Depp [ghost_wink] ) He's between 5'9" and 5'10" and casting calls for stand-ins usually ask for someone 5'9". I met him in person once and he does not seem short but he is small-boned and doesn't have a very imposing presence. I think that it's part of his personality that he is very laid-back and even shy in person. However, when he takes on a character, he can transform into anything that is required of him, and I fully believe that he'll be able to have a VERY imposing presence as Barnabas. He's just not going to be particularly tall :) But check out Sweeney Todd or the end of The Astronaut's Wife (terrible movie, but great scene at the end) if you want convincing evidence that Johnny can be a real baddie. And obviously, no problem with him playing the sympathetic card, as well.
As far as homoeroticism, I don't know what the script would entail, but I have no doubt that Johnny would have no problem biting a man's neck and making it look sexy. He's cool that way! And I'm a straight woman but I would definitely not mind such a scene!
Cathy
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I've now realized I spoke too soon about Ben Cross having been "animalistic"... That's Barnabas at his worst, of course, when he first arrives, and we're not supposed to like him. I love the hints we get in original DS of the more complicated man that's still there in 1967, but I shouldn't expect his attacks to be subtle or anything.
I guess I'm keeping us OT... done now.
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Again, returning to the idea of a new DS, rather than the movie per se...
Methinks most DS fans are also fans of vampire stories in general. At least that has been my experience. But a new DS--on cable or broadcast t.v.--might well have a lot of fun with a female reluctant vampire rather than a male one. In the original show, we of course had Angelique--and she was brilliant at being an evil vampire, a selfish creature full of passion but little pity, yet strangely vulnerable at times.
[spoiler]Along those lines, one of my favorite moments was when Barnabas was summoned to "take care" of Joe Haskell, and he reacted with indignant jealousy. The shock, and even some guilt, on Angelique's face stayed with me for decades.[/spoiler]
But what about a woman vampire who was genuinely reluctant, torn between unconquerable desires and the person she would wish to be? Suppose, for example, Josette had ended up a vampire? Or Rachel Drummond? (Okay, I suspect she'd've been a hellcat--ya gotta watch out for the quiet ones) Or Pansy Faye? She was arguably the nicest strong female we ever met on the show. Or for that matter, what about Alexis Stokes? She seemed like a quite nice person in almost every way. Can you imagine how such a woman might deal with being a vampire?
Imagine for a moment Pansy Faye trying desperately to avoid Quentin or Carl as she feels the bloodlust rise. Or Josette turning Nathan Forbes into her slave just to get him away from Millicent. Or suppose Alexis were gay (hey maybe--why not?) and could not help herself from biting Maggie or Carolyn?
I'm not saying those are storylines I'd want to see (well, yes I would but that isn't what I'm suggesting), but those are a template for the kind of story I'd like to see. One aspect of Barnabas that came across crystal clear was that he was so very masculine, in an 18th century sort of way. Among other things, he could be extremely gallant yet almost too stiffnecked and arrogant for words. How might the dynamic of a reluctant vampire be different with a woman, rather than a man? Hmmmmmm?
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As far as homoeroticism, I don't know what the script would entail, but I have no doubt that Johnny would have no problem biting a man's neck and making it look sexy. He's cool that way! And I'm a straight woman but I would definitely not mind such a scene!
I doubt he would either. Jack Sparrow acts like a big eye lining queen!! Disney was actually scared of letting Johnny proceed in that direction. Johnny also said (and this is not verbatim) with enough rum that Jack would most likely swing the other way. ALSO I am a gay male, but have several girlfriends who think a male being bitten by another male is sexy! I think that is cool.
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Continuing the vampire man on man meme....
Apropos of nothing at all, I noticed that (while the act is not shown) we see bleeding fang marks on Sandor's neck when I was first watching 1897. Remembering that Barn had bit Willie on the wrist, I couldn't help thinking at the time "so, he likes 'em big and swarthy...." [ghost_cheesy]
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Apropos of nothing at all, I noticed that (while the act is not shown) we see bleeding fang marks on Sandor's neck when I was first watching 1897. Remembering that Barn had bit Willie on the wrist, I couldn't help thinking at the time "so, he likes 'em big and swarthy...." [ghost_cheesy]
I love that last part! [lol2]
I might be wrong, but...
[spoiler]...when Barnabas "wills himself" back to 1795/6 to save Victoria #3 from being hanged, and he bites Forbes to get him to confess about lying under oath... don't we see marks on his (Forbes) neck? As with Sandor, the act is not shown, but seems to me they showed the marks on Nathan's neck afterwards. Or maybe I made it up...?[/spoiler]
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I think that it is VERY possible that Barnabas might bite a male and that it be erotically portrayed in the film, given that we have Burton directing (he's afraid of nothing), Depp starring (he's afraid of nothing and nothing's brother), and we have John August writing, who is a gay man and undoubtedly would have no problem writing it into the script if it served the story.
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Depp starring (he's afraid of nothing and nothing's brother)
ROFLMAO! That was extremely funny Brandon!! Thanks for the laugh. And thanks for the insight on the writer. I didn't know he was family! [ghost_wink]
Maybe I should explain what I meant about male on male bite. Yes he bite Sandor, but was that sexy? NO! EWW! IMHO. I am not sure about how he bit Willie since I haven't watched the early eps yet. I am working on them though. I am still on Volume 3 of The Collectors series so I have a while to go. And yes 1991 Barney bit MUSCLES but it wasn't erotic. I would like to see an erotic male on male bite. For example. On Buffy in Season 7 Spike [spoiler]bites a male and Spike's looks as he is being fulfilled (Uh huhmmm) as much as when bites a female. In fact he seems to relish in it.[/spoiler] In the 1991 comic series there is a scene where Barney is seriously enjoying himself while biting a male, and it is very HOT to say the least.
I am sorry for getting this topic completely off. But it seems as if I am not the only one who would like to see this!!
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This is me thinking that if they a DS Next Gen series was done, a storyline I would love to see is someone finding Quentin's portrait (an enemy/villain, perhaps) and destroying or damaging it, necessitating a rapidly aging Quentin to return to Collinsport. Of course the damage would be halted, the villain stopped, but not soon enough to reverse the partial ravages of age. David Selby (should he be interested) could remain on the show or a as a recurring guest star....
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I'm personally greenlighting that idea, Nelson! Good one!
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Yeah, that would work! [ghost_smiley]
Mind you, my scenario--having a series set in parallel time--would work just as well and then we get to see KLS as well! Maybe bring in a cousin of the late novelist William Loomis and then John Karlen can join the fun!
Wow, another thought occurred to me...
What television actors would people like to see in a revived DS? Just asking that question immediately brought some names to mind...
Marcia Cross
Lisa Edelstein
Ben Browder
Claudia Black
Jeri Ryan
Nana Visitor
Michelle Forbes
James Marsters
Nicholas Brendan
Wayne Pygram
Nathan Fillion
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Ben Browder
Claudia Black
Jeri Ryan
Nana Visitor
I always like to see them... along the same lines I'll add Kate Mulgrew as someone rich and aristocratic though not Liz.
The actress who played Alti on Xena... Claire Stansfield...?? She can be scary.
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Oh, I don't know - Kate Mulgrew and John De Lancie as Liz and Roger Collins.....
wow. [ghost_tongue2]
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I'm personally greenlighting that idea, Nelson! Good one!
*Blush* Thank you. [ghost_smiley]
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*Blush* Thank you. [ghost_smiley]
Yes, I'm throwing all the power I have in the industry behind that one!
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Here are some actors I would like to see in a DS revival/sequel:
Michael Emerson (Rev. Trask)
Blake Lively (Carolyn)
Ed Westwick (a youthful Quentin or maybe even Willie)
Tricia Helfer (Angelique)
James Callis (Rev. Trask)
Tyne Daly (Mrs. Johnson)
Victor Garber (Roger)
Juliet Landau (Roxanne)
Julie Benz (Angelique)
Tom Lenk (Willie)
Bailey Chase (Joe)
Amy Acker (Vicki or Maggie)
Summer Glau (Roxanne)
Logan Marshall-Green (Joe or maybe even Willie)
Glen Morshower (Sheriff Patterson)
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A new Dark Shadows series, taking the original characters in different directions and in different circumstances would indeed be exciting. However, I can't imagine the show without its backbone------the unforgettable chatacters that made it so successful. After all, isn't that what made it the show we all know and love? [ghost_smiley] I agree that retelling the story would be redundant. I would love to see new storylines. [ghost_grin]
Misty
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someone finding Quentin's portrait (an enemy/villain, perhaps) and destroying or damaging it, necessitating a rapidly aging Quentin to return to Collinsport. Of course the damage would be halted, the villain stopped, but not soon enough to reverse the partial ravages of age. David Selby (should he be interested) could remain on the show or a as a recurring guest star....
David Selby playing a character ravaged by age, even partially??! [ghost_shocked]
[ghost_wink]
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I've been thinking about the whole idea of male on male vampires.
What is we went back to the idea of a Julian Hoffman for the doctor. He would be guy but he wouldn't be "out". Barnabas being from 1795 would have no idea, of course we would. Barnabas could still go after Maggie or Vickie hoping to find "his Josette" and just wouldn't get that Dr. Hoffman was in love with at. At least at first. Who knows maybe in the third or so year the Dr. could come out. Maybe in time Maggie would says yes to Barnabas and on their wedding night....Barnabas would understand that he doesn't really want Maggie.....He wasn't willie!
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That should have been Willie. [ghost_wink]
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Now you've got me thinking about the film Lair of the White Worm, where Amanda Donahoe's character seduces a boy scout and then bites him on the, um.... willie.... [ghost_tongue2]
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Have you ever heard the song by Johnny Otis, "Willie and the Hand Jive"? [ghost_embarrassed]
Anyway back on topic. [ghost_cool]
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Oh, I don't know - Kate Mulgrew and John De Lancie as Liz and Roger Collins....
I am so with you on this. Great idea! [ghost_smiley]
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I've been thinking about the whole idea of male on male vampires.
What is we went back to the idea of a Julian Hoffman for the doctor. He would be guy but he wouldn't be "out".
WOW! Interesting idea. Very cool borgosi!!
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I just don't think Barnabas would come out even if he was gay, not coming from 1795. He would have a hard enough time just getting used to electric lights. Maybe one of the females that is turned into a vampire could be gay and could fall for Maggie. That could lend itself to some story twist as well. Or a male that is changed could be gay and could go after a Collins causing Barnabas to go back in time to stop himself from biting the guy.
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We know vampirism isn't literally sexual, it's about blood. One can look for disguised sexual implications, of course. I'll concede that it overlaps with the sexual in that there's this connection between personalities and a dominant/submissive thing. The relationships and feelings must overlap with the sexual in interesting ways. I think, though, that it's far more interesting to think of the relationship as something very strange and different and difficult to to understand, its own phenomenon, than as just a sexual act. That limits it and limits discussion about it I think.
Sorry, I'm just not getting into the spirit of the discussion, am I?
Why is it seen as less sexual when the bite's on the wrist? Because a bite on the neck looks a bit more like a kiss. Same result though wherever the bite is, same feelings, same dependence, same everything, whether it's on the wrist or neck or heel or shin or butt. It's sort of an optical illusion, the neck bite.
Now forget everything I said because I don't want to spoil everyone's fun. Pick up where you all left off before you were so rudely interrupted by the big killjoy...
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Same result though wherever the bite is, same feelings, same dependence, same everything, whether it's on the wrist or neck or heel or shin or butt.
Thanks, Magnus! Now I'm picturing Barnabas sinking his fangs into his victim's fanny. [bootyshake]
That would be a neat twist for a modern-day adaptation of the show: instead of looking for scarves, everybody can identify the vampire victims when they start wearing their normally saggy, baggy bottoms around their waists instead of six inches below their boxers. [ghost_grin]
ProfStokes
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ROFLMAO Prof Stokes. No harm intended Magnus. I simply thought it would be cool to see a sexy male on male bite. It would be a great nod to the HUGE Gay male fanbase that DS has. Moving along.....
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Some people just don't "get" the sexuality of a vampire bite. To be sure, not all such are particularly sexy. Look at the feedings in 30 Days of Night for instance. On the other hand, check out how vampires bite each other on Forever Knight as well as Angel!
That was something never quite explored on DS, although one wonders about Josette and Barnabas (or Angelique and Barnabas) spending their eternal nights together...hmmmm...
But it seems to me, a new DS series automatically faces a few hurdles--hardly insurmountable ones, but still. If you do a remake, then some people complain about recasting the parts and/or variations from the original--although frankly I think the variations are what makes things most interesting IMHO. Who wants Smallville to be just like Lois and Clarke? But a "next generation" type series is stepping into relatively unknown territory, certainly lacking the very characters that gave the show its original success. Again, not unsurmountable.
Myself, I think the most difficult part to re-cast is Dr. Julia Hoffman. The only actress who comes immediately to mind is Lisa Edelstein, who plays Dr. Cutty on House (but of course, other than being a single female doctor the two characters have very little in common).l She was also Sam's friend who was also a call girl on West Wing and had a hilarious turn as this totally bizarre girl Frasier got involved with for a short time on Frasier (she liked to howl at the moon--literally).
Of course, that is more-or-less using the original "take" on the character. One can see other directions as well. In my initial proposal on this thread I suggested Julia as Roger's lover, and partner in fraud/treasure hunting. I never cast that part in my mind, largely because I could never quite settle on the direction that would work best. Was she an older, accomplished woman feeling frustrated with life? Or a beautiful lady using her looks to her best advantage? Or maybe a younger woman, a bit insecure, even nerdy, swept away by the glamor of this sophisticated older man? Or something else?
But if there were to be a new DS, one thing I am sure of...
At least one vampire, the sexier the better. [ghost_smiley]
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Yes we need at least one vampire this much I am certain of. :)!
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Hey, if we ever get this revamped version of DS on the air there is one thing I want to see: when Vicki arrives in Collinsport, I want Carolyn to greet her and say at her snottiest best, "Welcome to the C.M. , bitch!"
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[beavis] heheheh you said "revamped" heh heheh heheh [/beavis]
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Some people just don't "get" the sexuality of a vampire bite. To be sure, not all such are particularly sexy. Look at the feedings in 30 Days of Night for instance. On the other hand, check out how vampires bite each other on Forever Knight as well as Angel!
Oh, I get that it's made sexual in a lot of vampire films and stories, and that bothers me, but that's just my reaction and opinion. It's pretty hard to miss. I just think it's more interesting to explore the relationship as something that has a lot in common with sexuality, but is its own thing.
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Vampire biting is frequently used as a sexual metaphor, but I agree with Magnus that it's not literally sexual. It can be portrayed as anything from a heavily erotic experience to simply being downright brutal violence. Of course, the parallels between biting and sexual intercourse are there, and pretty readily apparent. That, combined with the fact that vampires are often portrayed as darkly romantic, is why you see the "biting = sex" themes in many vampire stories.
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Well said. I can get behind that.
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I agree that the bite of a vampire doesn't HAVE to be sexual.
Now that that's out of the way, let me say that a sexual vampire is nothing new. What most think of as the first vampire story is The Vampyre by John William Polidori. It was 1/3 of the result of a group friends taking a challange to write a scary story. They would all write a scary story and then see who's was the best. The three were Lord Byron, Percy Shelley, and Mary Wollstonecraft. One legend says that Lord Byron wrote the beginning of a story that Polidori late finished. Others say that Polidori's story was a completely different story. Mary who later married Percy wrote the most famous story of the group.
Anyway after The Vampyre there was;
"Lord Ruthwen ou Les Vampires" by Cyprien in 1820
the play "Le Vampire" by Charles Nodier
1841 saw Alexey Tolstory published "Upyr" the first Russian vampire story
In 1847 the serial "Varney, The Vampire" began. The only thing I know about is that it's very long.
1851 Alexandre Dumas' "Le Vampire" opened in Paris
1872 saw Sheridan Le Fanu write "Carmilla"... "Carmilla" was the one of the first ten published vampired "stories". Before it there were legends, reports, but of what we would call "stories" today there were less than ten when "Carmilla" was published.
Why would I go to the trouble to point that out?
"Carmilla" is an extremely sexual story and it's girl on girl. Sexual even homosexual vampire stories began just 53 years after the first published vampire, maybe sooner. It just took alot longer for movies to catch up. Bram Stoker's "Dracula" was published until 1897, a full 25 years after "Carmilla".
So, while a vampire's attack doesn't have to be sexual, it is a long standing tradition.
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Hmmm... I'd have to hear the stories.
What year was that first vampire story?
Thanks for all that. I noticed the name "Polidori". I don't know the book Frankenstein, but my favorite film of it, the 1973 TV mini-series "Frankenstein: The True Story", had James Mason as a competing monster-builder named Polidori. That name always jumped out at me, and I never knew why.
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If all you know about Frankenstein is what you know from movies you should read the book sometime. None of the movies come close to telling the story, and I have many of the movies including "Frankenstein; The True Story".
Now, back on topic. [ghost_smiley]
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For your information.
There are three Hammer Films based on the Carmilla story. They are "The Vampire Lovers", "Lust For A Vampire" and "Twins Of Evil", the first two are on DVD.
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To me, the most erotic vampire movies--in terms of the actual vampirism--were Interview with the Vampire (even at his cruelest, Lestat was seductive to the max), BBC's 1977 Count Dracula (the biting being little less than intercourse in some ways), Jean Rollin's Vampire Orphan Twins with its eerie sensuality, Bram Stoker's Dracula (especially when the Brides "rape" Harker), and a wonderfully atmospheric (and over the top) Italian flick called Slaughter of the Vampires, in black and white.
Together these had the elements I love most in depictions of vampires, and frankly what I hope to see in any new version of DS:
1. Strange beauty. I like my vampires to be fallen angels, not bestial monsters like Nosferatu or 30 Days of Night. Those were fun movies, to be sure, but the idea of ravenous creatures that just want to eat you feels "Zombie" to me, not vampire. Just a personal preference. Thus I'd want Barnabas or Angelique or whoever to be exotic and lovely to behold, even (especially) when baring their fangs. I don't even mind if they have a "vamp face" a la Buffy, but why not a beautiful one?
2. Addiction The vampire is addicted to blood, must have it like a crackhead needs cocaine. But no less the victim, once bitten, should crave more. I was startled as a mere lad at the seductiveness on DS of some victims yearning to have their master bite them again. Seemed like an excellent metaphor for all those weird drives and dreams of which the vampire partakes so readily. Besides, addiction is a complex state and portrayed accurately is a source of much drama. But part of that dynamic also is that the vampire must not kill with one bite, nor must one bite create a vampire. That robs us of the relationship between predator and prey, of seducer and seducee (and btw, are we always sure which is which?)
3. Guilt Methinks we all recognize that a vampire who revels in his/her condition can be loads of fun. But the one who feels guilt for what happens to them, who still feels a connection to the humanity of his/her victims, that is much more compelling. Barnabas Collins, Nicholas Knight, Angel--all these grabbed our imagination and rightfully so. With this comes another point, namely that the vampire needs something to feel guilty about. He or she needs to have been a genuine force of destruction. Nick Knight and Angel also explored the idea of a "parent" vampire urging our hero to give to his desires, to let the beast go.
4..Atmosphere Dammit, I want a DS that is genuinely gothic! I want candles and coffins, flowing nightgowns and moonlit nights. Not that I want to ignore the modern world, far from it, but there should be room for all the lovely gothic stuff too. In flashbacks at least!
5. Nature Okay this one is technical. I want consistent rules, thank you very much, and the more they make some kind of internal sense the better. Is it the symbol of the cross that repels, or the faith of the wielder? Do vampires sleep during the day, or are they dead? Can vampires eat food or not? Is a vampire a specialized kind of demonic possession, the equivalent of a supernatural disease, or what? And what are a vampire's powers?
That is what I want to see in the vampires of a new DS.
Next...what I want to see in the werewolves! [ghost_cool]
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As for #5, Zahir, I'm not sure that Dark Shadows would be Dark Shadows without a few glaring inconsistencies for us to chew over.
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If all you know about Frankenstein is what you know from movies you should read the book sometime. None of the movies come close to telling the story, and I have many of the movies including "Frankenstein; The True Story".
There are hundreds of books I would love to read. Access to all that is very limited to me because of an eye condition. Anyway, I love "Frankenstein: The True Story". But then I love early 70s films and culture. There always seemed to be something wrong with the Universal movie, such as a lack of a coherent moral sense.
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You nailed it, Zahir. Couldn't agree more.
5. Nature Okay this one is technical. I want consistent rules, thank you very much, and the more they make some kind of internal sense the better. Is it the symbol of the cross that repels, or the faith of the wielder? Do vampires sleep during the day, or are they dead? Can vampires eat food or not?
This one's a little trickier. I like to see "rules" consistently adhered to as well, but I'd rather that the rules be slowly revealed over a long period of time. I prefer vampires to be a bit mysterious, especially in regards to stuff like this:
Is a vampire a specialized kind of demonic possession, the equivalent of a supernatural disease, or what? And what are a vampire's powers?
I don't want to know, actually. In DS...
[spoiler]Barnabas's vampirism being the result of a witch's curse was fine with me because they didn't go too far into details or specifics[/spoiler]
...but too much information about the creation/evolution/nature of vampires turns me off. Anne Rice's novels are a perfect example. Too much information demystifies.
Next...what I want to see in the werewolves! [ghost_cool]
Bring it!
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As for #5, Zahir, I'm not sure that Dark Shadows would be Dark Shadows without a few glaring inconsistencies for us to chew over.
I respectfully disagree. Sure there are gonna be bloopers and mistakes but one of the greatest things about Buffy, for example, is the fact that the show had a BIBLE that was laid out before hand and there are a minimal amount of inconsistencies on that show. I like that! It makes the world we are in more believable! That is just my opinion though, I am not saying mine is any better than yours GODDESS LYDIA whom I bow down and worship!! [9050] There is one BLOOPER in Seasons Four (of Buffy) and I have no idea how they missed that one as it is just a BIG ASS BLOOPER staring you right in the face. The editor must have been on a 14 hour day work day and fell asleep. It is quite HIGHlarious because it is in a scene that is supposed to be just horrid, grotesque, and scerry! Scerry is when something is more that scarry. It is just SCERRY! [ghost_wink] I am feeling flip. Sorry.
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I don’t how many of you are familiar with the Burning Man Festival. It takes place in Black Rock, Nevada in the desert, where for a week leading up to Labor Day, a temporary intentional community springs up. This community can be upwards of 20 to 30,000 people, who bring their own camping supplies, food and water. The highlight of the event is the burning of a giant wooden human effigy (a la The Wicker Man only without the religious overtones and human barbecue). As I understand it, and I don’t claim to completely understand it, it is an entirely secular ritual, done more for entertainment than as a religious rite. The original Burning Man festival has inspired “regional burns”, Burning Man-like events on a smaller scale held around the country. There is one such event held in North Carolina, held on a family owned tract of 940 acres of mountain wilderness. There about 3,000 folks do in the woods what Burning Man does in the desert, a temporary intentional community where there is no monetary exchange for things. It’s a gift ecomony, where anything anyone wants or needs is offered gratis. There are artists of all kinds, bikers, musicians, deejays, Radical Faeries, hippies of the old school, Goths, satanists, pagans, and so on, and of course many many people who breathe, dance and perform with fire.
A friend was at one such event in Maine and it started me thinking about another possible story for a hypothetical Dark Shadows: The Next Generation.
The current head of the Collins family is the son of David Collins, who as we all know , as a child claimed to see and talk and play with ghosts, and gazed into crystal balls, and contemplated (and even attempted) murder. He grew out of that eventually, grew up got married and was head of the Collins family empire for a long time before stepping down and putting his son in his place. David’s stepping down was not entirely by choice as in his later years began to revert to claims of seeing ghosts and making frightening predictions. Generally, it was thought he was going senile and was gently moved aside. I confess that in my mind’s eye, I always see and elderly Louis Edmonds playing David (think Joshua Collins but in 2008).
Enough backstory. This would be an ongoing B or C plot for the last part of a season. The organizers of a Burning Man-like regional burn approach the patriarch of the Collins Family to request permission to hold such an event on their vast estate. David Collins goes completely nuts over the idea, and, as would frequently happen when he was a child, no attention is paid to the crazy coot. It will bring a few thousands possible tourists to their “artist colony” community that might drop some dough into the local economy on the way to or from the event. No harm is seen as being done, because with these kinds of temporary communities, while there are few rules, one of the most important is to leave the place in the same condition it was when you arrived. Permission is granted. The event happens. Everything goes as planned. The effigy, usually a man or at least gender neutral, is unusually fashioned specifically as a woman. The night of the Burn is a festival party like atmosphere. There is a wide swath of bare land around the effigy where only those in charge of the actually setting the fire and various fire performers are. Now this is supposed to be a completely religion free “ritual” but the person speaking before setting effigy alight falters in his speech and suddenly alters it slightly (not enough to really sound like a religious invocation, but definitely in that direction). He sets the effigy on fire and it’s a glorious party night for the revelers. David’s son attended the burn (because despite his dismissal of his father’s rants) wanted to be sure that nothing “supernatural” took place. Satisfied all is well, he returns to Collinwood.
The revels last way into the night. By dawn, everyone has gone back to their campsites to sleep. Of the effigy nothing remains but a pile of ashes. In the woods at the edge of the clearing where the burn occurred, old David Collins peers intently at the ashes. The pile breaks as if something is inside them. While a horrified David watches, a beautiful naked woman stands and begins to brush herself off.
A terrified David whispers, “Mother.”
Fade to black. End of season
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Nelson--that was awesome! [ghost_smiley] Bravo! Who would you cast as Laura?
Retzev--while I want the rules to be consistent, I don't as an audience member need to be told all of them. The writers are the ones who need to know the rules, and to follow them.
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Who would you cast as Laura?
I envision it as a temorary role a la Diana's turns in the original series, so I am not adverse to stunt casting a "name".
However, a good actress no matter how well known will be just as good. What about Kristine Sutherland (Buffy's mom)?
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Posters,
When submitting story suggestions, please avoid the descriptive language and dialogue that are indicative of narrative prose and instead stick to story outlines. These final paragraphs, for example, traveled perilously into fan fic territory:
In the woods at the edge of the clearing where the burn occurred, old David Collins peers intently at the ashes. The pile breaks as if something is inside them. While a horrified David watches, a beautiful naked woman stands and begins to brush herself off.
A terrified David whispers, “Mother.”
Fade to black. End of season
From the Forum Guidelines:
These forums also do not accept fan fiction and such works are subject to removal.
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Thanks for the head's up. I apologize and will keep that in mind.
Mea culpa.
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Okay, werewolves. [ghost_smiley]
The problem with werewolves is finding some kind of variation that makes sense and isn't too stale. Obviously, the most common story is that of a man who hates being such a creature and must somehow keep himself from destroying those around him when the moon is full.
Interestingly, the business about the full moon and silver is all made-up stuff from Hollywood. No more in the actual folklore than bats are associated with vampires! But by all means let us keep to those traditions--why not? But at the same time, let us consider what genuinely makes for a good werewolf story and ask for those to be included in any DS series...
1 Some kind of treatment Notice the word I used. Not "cure" but "treatment." Something that more-or-less keeps the wolf at bay on nights of the full moon. Perhaps an amulet (which can be lost, stolen, given away, etc.), or a (presumably rare) herb, or perhaps an experimental drug. Not a portrait that changes instead of you because, well, that 's been done. But the reason for this is to create conflict, and something for the werewolf to do in response to his condition than a secret stone room. Two excellent examples of this are the films Werewolf in Paris and Ginger Snaps 2 (the latter has the werewolf finding increasingly strong injections of wolfsbane growing less effective over time--while a male of the species keeps looking for her as a mate).
2. Bestial influence I think the most interesting werewolf stories often include a sense that the "wolf" is bleeding into the human. Look at Jack Nicholson in the movie Wolf to see what I mean, or maybe the husband in The Howling in which a vegetarian enthusiastically devours meat. Perhaps the effect would grow over time, especially near the full moon. One might even imagine that the lupine form would become less and less anthropomorphic over time. A really cool detail in an episode of Buffy was when Oz, even in his human form, could smell his girlfriend on someone else.
3. Different reactions Static characters are dull characters. Identical characters are dull also. Let us see either the Cursed One finding a way to live with their condition, or changing their mind, or in any case doing something other than just mope-and-hide. Perhaps they meet another werewolf whose personality is quite different, who may revel in their condition, maybe even longing to cast aside the human and enjoy the pure life of an animal.
4. A Woman C'mon, why should the guys have all the fun? There is no reason in the world not to have stories about female werewolves. In fact, there've been some excellent ones (probably the best was the Ginger Snaps trilogy). Can you imagine, for example, what if Nancy Barrett's Carolyn had been a werewolf? Wouldn't that have been fascinating? Or what if instead of a vampire, Angelique had returned as a werewolf? Can't you imagine her locking someone in a room with her just before sunset on the night of a full moon? Heh heh.
5. Good Makeup Sorry, but the tendency is too often to create silly looking werewolf makeups. Oz on Buffy looked like some kind of mongoose, while to be honest the old Lon Chaney design is kinda overdone. Best werewolf designs I've ever seen were in the movie Underworld but those in Wolf were also excellent (and subtle).
6. Consistency Same as with vampires. Write your rules and stick to them. Don't have to tell us them all, but please know them yourselves.
Comments?
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There have been werewolf stories where the "werewolf" can change at will. Maybe they could have one that has to change on a full moon but can change at other times as he/she wishes. Maybe a stranger arrives at Collinsport and is a werewolf. Then the family member decides to use his curse to fight the stranger werewolf. Of course the rule that a "werewolf must kill the on he loves best" would have to be changed but that could be done easy enough.
Wolvesbane was used as a cure as early as Werewolf Of London so that's nothing new and could be used here. In that film it was a very rare plant found in Tibet, I think they called the plant Wolvesbane. Whenever the wolf is needed the cursed one would just not take his shot. Now once he changes he must kill so this would be something that he wouldn't want to do, but would allow them to bring back the werewolf from time to time.
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I really like the Burning Man scenario, Nelson, though calling David a "coot"...?! I keep looking for a way to connect to the Burning Man thing somehow, by the way. Their message board wasn't too interesting. Anyway, there's something compelling about that scene, not sure what yet. She's young, he's older. She's literally rising from ashes in front of his eyes. Did David ever have any sort of hippie-ish past himself?
Zahir--- Today's films and TV are our contribution to the folklore of the future I think, though we don't know what bits will survive and which won't.
Retzev--while I want the rules to be consistent, I don't as an audience member need to be told all of them. The writers are the ones who need to know the rules, and to follow them.
Good point, and I think that takes care of the Anne Rice objection, and Taeylor's (and my) need for consistency and continuity.
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I should have mentioned also the idea of a werewolf who could (sometimes) control the change. Good catch!
That suggests a storyline, even. Let us say that (for example) David's daughter Nina hasn't been heard of since she dropped out of college a couple of years back. Now she shows up again, and is very mysterious about what she's been up to. Then this guy arrives looking for her--let us call him Blake. Turns out Blake is a member of a pack of werewolves who, by giving in to the beast, are no longer at the mercy of the full moon. They can control when the shift, and even retain some of their mind. Nina fell in love with Blake and he initiated her, but although she cares for him she doesn't want to be a werewolf. So now she's looking for some kind of antidote, because unlike Blake she cannot control it...
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I like it.
After she finds the cure that pack arrives in Collinsport. They are against the cure because she knows about the pack, she know too much. Her only choices are to join the pack or turn against them and use her "power" to stop them. She must embrace her wolf or loose everything, and if she isn't careful she could loose herself to the wolf.
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Sorry, the mere mention of "Blake" propels me into "Blake's Seven" territory, and I forget everything else....
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I also agree with many of you. The original telling of Dark Shadows shouldn't be done. I also believe as someone adhered to, the spirit of the characters should be consistant with the original characters or it would probably flop. [ghost_smiley]
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Let us say that (for example) David's daughter Nina hasn't been heard of since she dropped out of college a couple of years back.
Wasn't Nina the name of the woman who became a werewolf and dated Angel in Season Five of that series? [ghost_wink]
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Nelson, I really like the Burning (Wo)Man story proposal you posted. It would definitely be a great way to bring Laura back into the series to wreak havoc on those at Collinwood. Not to mention that the festival itself would be a great setting for 2-4 episodes at any point during the season because it would cause major drama within the family and in the town. It could be something else for the town to ban together against the Collins family for.
And yes, Nina was the name of the werewolf in Angel Season 5.
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I had actually forgotten that character's name. [ghost_embarrassed] How about Michelle instead?
Magnus, does it make it better if we call him "Drake" instead?
Mind you, there comes a time when we're bound to use names that have been used before by somebody in some story or other that many of us like.
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Magnus, does it make it better if we call him "Drake" instead?
Now you've got me thinking about Patrick McGoohan in Danger Man!
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RE: Names for Nina/Michelle's BF
You could possibly go a bit self-referencial: Lon? Michael (after Michael "I was a Teenage Werewolf" Landon)? Michael also fits for Michael J. "Teen Wolf" Fox. However, be prepared for comparisons to Teen Wolf, in which Fox has complete control over his changes for comic effect....
OTOH, you also have the Lychans in the Underworld films who also have control over their changes.
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Okay, David's werewolf daughter is named Michelle Collins.
Her werewolf once-and-future boyfriend is named Ian Beauregard.
Hmmmm...just thought of something. What happens if a vampire bites a werewolf? Does the werewolf become enslaved, but only in their human form? Or the reverse? Perhaps some odd blend of the two depending on circumstances. Hmmmmm...
What would make for the best story?
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Welll, to be frank, I was not happy with Underworld. The "elite" vampire class vs. the "lower class" werewolf class was so so, [spoiler]but the prophecy of a hybrid between the two classes ending the conflict was just well a bit meh for me.[/spoiler] In fact, I was so underwhelmed I have yet to bother to seek out the straight to dvd sequel, Underworld Revolution.
I don't say [spoiler]a DS Vampire/Werewolf mix[/spoiler] won't work, just that it's been done rather recently.
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What would make for the best story?
Most werewolf stories highlight the essential nature of the creature: wild, animalistic. While many vampires are sleek and urbane and sophisticated, the werewolf has always seemed to be the more average joe of the supernatural world, a regular guy (Wolf Man, American Ww in London, Oz in Buffy) or even lower class servants a la the Lycans in Underworld. How about we turn that idea on its head?
There was a miniseries in the late 80s starring C Thomas Howell called The Kindred, in which IIRC the vampires were cast as Mafia-like "families." There were hierarchies and powerful and weak families and feuds, etc. The patriarch of the ruling family, I see in the mold of Nicholas Blair.
I'd like to see a new DS take that concept use werewolves instead, and include a pack of werewolf motorcycle toughs a la "The Lost Boys" whose leader of the pack (see what I did there? [ghost_wink] ), old and gray now, is one Buzz Hackett, who was attacked by Chris Jennings in the 70s, (off screen of course) but survived and because of his wounds was air lifted to a hospital in Boston, where he stayed when he recovered.
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NelsonCollins: I really like your idea of a 'Laura' raising from the ashes... I would like to change one thing however, instead of David having a son, I'd like to see him have 3 daughters. The youngest daughter would be 7, then an 11 year old and finally the oldest being 15...David is extremely protective of the girls, especially since the mother died giving birth to the youngest daughter...the youngest daughter however is the key..
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I would like to see at least one of David's children start becoming half Phoneix! I always thought this would have been a perfect story on DS and frankly if it had lasted it would have been great for David Collins.
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Especially, since not only is mother but his great-grandmother is same woman/phoenix! [ghost_tongue2]
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I didn't realize the above post was my 666 TH [frkoff] [fangs] post. EWW!!!! SCARRY!!!!
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I would personally prefer that David's children be older than that, at least most of them. Given that David should be well into his fifties by now, perhaps Laura might go after David's widowed son? Meanwhile, a daughter showing Phoenix-like tendencies (great idea, btw) should probably be at an age where she's dating--into her teens.
JMHO
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I think it would also be cool to update the Collinsport Inn/Restaurant and make it a cool coffee shop. I am not for sure if I would want it to be a hotel/coffee shop though. I am still trying to decide. This isn't really character related but I got the idea watching The Beginning DVDS. I really enjoy the action at the Collinsport Inn/Restaurant and wish it had been used more in latter part of the show.
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That actually brings up all sorts of interesting possibilities. Collinwood, the Old House, the House-By-The-Sea, the Evans Cottage, the Blue Whale, Rose Cottage and the Mausoleum, as well as Wyndcliff. All these were established in the OS, but what about other locales in and around Collinsport?
Clearly there was some kind of local college, which over forty years might have grown into something a bit more impressive. Of course there was a hospital--and one wonders what its records might reveal? I seem to recall mention of a lighthouse once. Mind you, if there wasn't one Collinsport certainly should have one! Haunted, preferably, at the very least by memories of some terrible event who-knows-when.
We have Widow's Hill and Eagle Hill. Surely there were more than two!
For that matter, might there be something mysterious/preternatural about some other family in town?
What about the surrounding towns? Bangor isn't too far, and neither is Frenchman's Bay. Any others?
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As I recall there is a lighthouse that has an exit into some underground caverns where I think [spoiler]Angelique and Dr Hoffman nursed Barnabas back to health at one point. There was the Graham Rest Home where Sabrina stayed when her hair turned white overnite.[/spoiler] Also, there was Cyrus Longworth's laboratory located I believe in a very seedy section of town.
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I always thought Cyrus's lab was in the basement of some familiar house on the Collins estate, maybe the carriage house. Cyrus was the family doctor, sort of, and I think Q wanted him close by. Cyrus always seemed to get over to Collinwood in a flash when needed.
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Zahir,
In the early OS, there was another town near Collinsport called Logansport where Burke was trying to purchase a competing cannery, if I'm not mistaken. I've often wondered if a new series might include the Logansport and Logan family as a rival fishing empire - maybe even a Romeo/Juliet love story between the two families.
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I am familiar with that town since I am watching the early episodes. What a fabulous idea Nelson!!
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I don't recall Cyrus's lab being on the Collins estate. I got the feeling it was in the basement of perhaps a storefront type building perhaps in the vicinity of The Eagle bar. I also think it was fairly close to Buffy's apartment.
Prof Stokes lived in Rockport. Another idea is Angelique and Sky Rumson's island which was about 50 miles offshore from Collinsort.
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So we have Rockport, Frenchman's Bay, Logansport (Nelson--such a cool idea!), the island where Sky Rumson lived and of course St. Eustace Island from HODS.
Gotta wonder what kind of deep, dark secrets the Logans might have...? [ghost_cool]
Heh heh--wouldn't it be cool if Michelle Collins (David's werewolf daughter) was the one who falls for a Logan? Can't you see the other Logans insisting there is something dark and horrible about the Collins family, telling (lets see, what is a good name? How about Steve?) Steve Logan to stay away from Michelle, but he refuses. Then of course Ian Beauregard, the other werewolf, shows up as well. And voila--a supernatural triangle!
C'mon, any DS needs at least one of those! [ghost_smiley]
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I would love to see a modern day Trask family in a DS redeux. I've always thought of the Trasks as the thorns in the sides of the Collins family members. I can picture a contemporary Rev. Trask as the head of a cult-like congregation. Trask would convince his followers that Collinwood is a place of eviil and its inhabitants must be punished. This version of Trask could also go on a mission to "clean up" Collinsport and try to shut the Blue Whale down or harrass the "working girls" on the waterfront. Rev. Trask could have a haughty wife who wants to bring "family values" to Collinsport but it is revealed she is having an affair with some guy on the side. There could also be some socially maladjusted Trask children.
Also, I can imagine a really first-rate antiquarian bookshop in Collinsport. It's a family-owned and operated business and they have been booksellers to the Collins family for generations. They have also supplied the Collins family with many "specialized" volumes - books on witchcraft, black magic, the supernatural, etc. The business would be valued by the Collins family for being discreet.
Finally, I want to see what Collinsport is like on Halloween night. Are the villagers in such mortal danger that they remain home behind locked doors? Do tricker or treaters find themselves terrorized by a bevy of evil spirits roaming the countryside on that particular night? Is Collinwood decorated?
Maybe nothing happens on the night. On BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, all the "big and little bads" took the night off and left Halloween to the "amateurs"! Maybe Collinsport is "evil-free" on that night and Halloween is celebrated in full force. Maybe the town, trading on its spooky image, hosts a big Halloween bash that attracts tourists. There would be graveyard tours and field trips to Widow's Hill.
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A modern day Trask family could be fun. As I was reading your post Markyboo, I suddenly thought how Trask-like the Minister on Carnivale was and what a modern day Trask might do if he suddenly discovered he had some kind of supernatural powers!
Alternatively, it might be interesting to have a genuinely pious and humble Trask to have around, doing really good works around collinsport. The clergy often gets a bad rep on DS [hall2_wink] but then we only have the various branches of the Trask family to go by. IIRC, on the original series, if you weren't a Trask, you were a jumped up extra, there to perfom wedding ceremony! [hall2_grin]
We might also tie the family name of Trask (of various time periods) to the modern day Petersons perhaps? [hall2_tongue]
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Yeah, I'm in favor of bringing in the Trasks and have them prove something other than a bunch of right b*st*rds. Perhaps a daughter of that family has married one of the Logans and is among those trying to quell any sense of the feud between them and the Collins clan.
This also brings up another interesting thought. Presuming for a moment that a modern Reverend Trask exists and is a much nicer person than many of his ancestors--a low bar to be sure--might this be the way to introduce a vampire? What about Reverend Lysander Trask, an idealistic fellow who one night comes across a young woman weeping and terrified in the woods. She can barely remember her name, Belle, but she seems terribly ill and terrified of someone or something. He hides her, and only slowly discovers her secret. Belle is a vampire, recently turned, and struggling desperately with theses strange desires she feels. Reverend Trask, half-way in love with her by now, resolves to somehow lift the curse from this girl.
Might be a nice twist, that. [hall2_cheesy]
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Inspired by Magnus Trask in another thread, I think we ought to include the Juggins family in a DS Redux. They can be the household staff at Collinwood (Husband, wife, daughter, son?) and in a shameless swipe of the film Sabrina, the daughter's name is, um, Sabrina! She's teenaged, but not a witch (or is she??)
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And everybody's always rolling their eyes and saying what a dummy Mr. Juggins is!
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And everybody's always rolling their eyes and saying what a dummy Mr. Juggins is!
I heard a trumpet in my head going "waah waah WAAAHHH..." !!
We have the creepy emoticons back!!!!
[skelleton_runs] [skelleton_runs] [skelleton_runs] [candle_in_skull_2]
On another DS board, there's a sort of banter I did for awhile with someone there, where she was Charipansy and I was the unknown nicer Trask brother Magnus who didn't like Dad at all who thinks his sister Charity got more sane thanks to the Count.
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We have the creepy emoticons back!!!!
Only some. There are many more to come...
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We have the creepy emoticons back!!!!
Only some. There are many more to come...
Well, I wasn't going to say, but I did miss the ones that were gone, or rather not here yet apparently... I have so few joys in my life! Goofy creepy skulls really do it for me, I guess!
[candle_in_skull_2]
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Me likes the idea of the Juggins!
Okay, does this mean Sabrina Juggins is having an affair with the older and distinguished David Collins?
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More likely a Sabrina-like triangle between two of David's sons "Edward" and "Quentin" [hall2_wink]
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Brings up an interesting thought about dramatic possibilities. [hall_wink]
David Collins had these kids. Who's their mom? And is she still around? If not, why not? If yes, what is she like?
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if she is around, I'd like her to be a Krystal Carrington. Sort of like Vickie was in the OS, the straight one, the one everyone likes, the stable one, not a victim, but an innocent. I think the series will need some non-supernatural plots and characters that have no secrets or ulterior motives. She can be one of those. In fact, what is Linda Evans doing these days? would she be too old to play the Collins Matriarch?
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I am a HUGE Dynasty FAN...BTW
Linda Evans was born on November 18, 1942. The last thing she did was a play with Joan Collins. So that would make her almost 68 eight years old..
Quick Dark Shadows connection (Which course I am sure most of you know) KLS played a British woman in the 1st season of Dynasty, who sleeps with Michael the driver.
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As I recall, David was born around 1960. So his wife needs to be born somewhere in the chronological vicinity.
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David Collins was 9 in 1966. Henesy was born in 1956.
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Well, David could have fallen in love and married an older blonde woman that reminded him of his mother [spoiler]in happier and less infamatory times[/spoiler]
[hall2_grin]
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An interesting thought occurred to me...
In both Twilight and True Blood there is something of a triangle between a Vampire, A Werewolf (or something like one) and a girl they both love. Frankly, DS dipped its toe in the same plot direction vis-a-vis Maggie/Barnabas/Quentin. But might not a new DS do something similar? For that matter, the same thing also happened in Underworld. Hmmmmm....
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a triangle between a Vampire, A Werewolf (or something like one) and a girl they both love.
Tom, Chris, and Joe, maybe?
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Apologies if this has been mooted before, but something that occurred to me recently is Victoria Winters Clark.
She [spoiler]married a man that doesn't exist and then she herself vanished into thin air.[/spoiler] Now I understand that any investigation of her disappearance wouldn't begin 30 odd years later, but when you think about some, someone would have missed her (Mrs. Hopewell, her friends/coworkers at the foundling home, maybe some of the children she was close to). Also, after a few years of not paying income tax, the IRS would certainly want to know where she was. The of course there would be the people of Collinsport, the minister who married her and Jeff, blood tests and marriage licenses, people who even just knew her as the Collins boy's governess.
Perhaps a storyline in a new DS could deal with that in some way, perhaps a child at the foundling home remembered her and years later is trying to find out what happened to her.
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Changing gears for a sec. In the Depp movie will the old tried and true "Cousin from England" story work in this high tec world on 2009, if they choose to go that route! Perhaps...Barnabas can create false documents! Kind of been pondering this for a while! :)
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This person has some interesting (and not so interesting) casting ideas:
Johnny Depp's Dark Shadows movie (http://popcultureguy-don.blogspot.com/2009/03/johnny-depps-dark-shadows-movie.html)
(Rachel Griffiths is an excellent actress, but she's definitely too old to play Carolyn - well, unless Carolyn becomes years older than Vicki...)
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Haha, Rachel Griffiths actually played Johnny Depp's mother in the film Blow (of course she had age makeup, though- she was portraying a character over the course of 30 or 40 years, and looked her age when Johnny's character was a child. Still a funny choice, though). Freddie Highmore is way too old to play David- he's 17! And I assume she means Ralph Fiennes and Amy Adams. Adams is a very interesting choice to play Angelique- I have usually seen her being overly sweet and innocent (Junebug, Enchanted) but somehow I could envision her as an evil witch. Emma Thompson as Dr. Hoffman is pretty interesting, too. I haven't heard of some of the others, so I can't comment.
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Haha, Rachel Griffiths actually played Johnny Depp's mother in the film Blow
Funny you should mention that because last week there were reports that Hope Davis was very upset because she was offered a role as Depp's mother (but turned it down) - and she's a year younger than Depp. One article (Dog Years: Why Movie Moms Are The Same Age As Their Sons [Thirty Is The New Sixty] (http://www.celebritygossipguide.com/2009/03/27/dog-years-why-movie-moms-are-the-same-age-as-their-sons-thirty-is-the-new-sixty/)) also pointed out how Angelina Jolie is only a year older than Colin Farrell, yet she played his mother in Alexander. That got me to thinking. British fans want to see Depp and Jolie in a film together - so (in light of that article), perhaps the perfect thing would be for Jolie to play Naomi to Depp's Barnabas. Right? [easter_wink] And maybe Tim Burton is even considering that at this very minute. [easter_cheesy]
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No, no, no and please no! Just personal taste, but I can't stand Angelina Jolie. She is just too weird. However, she'd make a good Jenny... [easter_grin]
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There was a rumor a few years ago that Jolie and Depp were going to do Wuthering Heights together, and I was in the "Oh, please, no!" camp about that [easter_grin] I'm not sure how I'd feel about Jolie in DS- she's not a favorite of mine, but yet her persona is very strong, and maybe that would make her up to the task for DS.
As for women playing older roles, the situation with Rachel Griffiths in Blow (and Lea Thompson in Back To The Future, for that matter) is that they're playing their character at both a young age and an older age, so that's not as much of an insult as just being asked to play a mom of a 46 year-old! (even though Johnny looks easily 10 years younger than he is). BTW I have no idea what part Hope Davis would've been up for that she turned down- that one stumps me! The article raises a good point, though, and I'm guessing that DS is going to be no different in that Barnabas' love interest(s) are going to be cast a good deal younger than Johnny instead of around his age. And in the case of Vicki, she really *has* to be lot younger, or else it wouldn't work that she's just starting out as a governess.
Cathy
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I think Cherry Jones might make an interesting Elizabeth Collins Stoddard.
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I have never gotten into her at all..... [easter_huh] Angelinga that is...