The 2004 WB Pilot

[Raineypark]

I didn't make it to LA either, Steve, so if they DO show the pilot again in Brooklyn, 2006, you won't be the only one there who's seeing it for the first time.

I'll save you a seat.....

rainey

[Heather]

I didn't make it to LA either, Steve, so if they DO show the pilot again in Brooklyn, 2006, you won't be the only one there who's seeing it for the first time.

Ditto...

-Heather, fest virgin who'd love to have a glance at the pilot...  

[wes]

The 2004 version is very much how I think the show should be done.  I didn't like the 1991 version.  This was much better.  I would do some correction, of course; but this recent version was very much in the right direction, in my opinion.

[Fletcher]

Wes,  tell  us what you liked about the pilot.  What parts did you enjoy most?  Also, what parts of the pilot need some correction, in your opinion?

Since I wasn't in LA and haven't seen the pilot, I enjoy hearing the opinions of those who have.  I'm sure other enjoy it too.  The more details the better.  LOL

[wes]

Wes,  tell  us what you liked about the pilot.  What parts did you enjoy most?  Also, what parts of the pilot need some correction, in your opinion?

Overall, I thought the show had style.  The original had style.  I liked the style, direction, and camerawork.  I thought the direction very well done, despite what I heard.  I thought the arrival of Barnabas shot well.  The shot of Collinwood's interior and exterior were excellent.  They made the house and grounds look splendid.

I believe Curtis said, while promoting the 1991 series, he wanted to update the look of Collinwood... so, that it would look as grand as it seemed, originally.  That was not achieved in the 1991 series; for the 2004 show, it was realized.

I really don't like the idea of re-making DS endlessly; rather, I would take the "Next Generation" approach.  Still, I liked the way the characters/script were updated.  All of the opening scenes were improved.  Vicki's arrival... the train ride and the station were wonderful.  I thought the "cameo" man on the train would have suited Frid.  he should have accepted it, but I don't blame him for passing on it... I would have, too.  But, after seeing the spot, I think it would have fitted Frid's post-DS tour persona.

[spoiler]I liked Barnabas flying around the trees of Collinsporta and crawling on Collinwood's outside walls.[/spoiler]It souunds silly, but it was very well done.  I thought the casting was much improved over the 1991 version.  The key roles of Barnabas and Vicki worked.  In the 1991 series, I liked Joanna but not Ben.  I was prepared to not like a short blonde Vicki... so unlike the established character's look; but, she was Vicki.

The re-working of the Vicki  character's qualifications was nice... she would need Psych training for a case like David.  The updates all worked well... Willie and his girlfriend releasing Barnabas was fantastic.  I'm glad they didn't play up Maggie Evans as a mistress seer of Roger's.  It fit with her original concept, I suppose, but most people think of Maggie as Vicki... she pretty much took over Vicki's role before handing it over to Kate Jackson.

Of course, Moltke, KLS, or Jackson would have been a marvelous choice to play Liz.  I'm not sure WB could reach an agreement with Kate; so, I can't imagine why KLS wasn't offered the part.  If not those, it should have been someone in the tradition of Joan Bennett/Jean Simmons...

Blair Brown is not acceptable as Liz.  Though I've praised the direction, I think something went wrong with the direction of Brown as Liz.  Someone needs to be taken to the woodshed.  It could be that, despite his strengths, the director needs some assistance with staying on course (the course being the integrity of DS).  I think most of the pilot is workable, with Brown... but a couple things need to be re-shot, dubed, or explained (like maybe she's frazzled over Paul Stoddard, or something).

Even worse is the portrayal of Sheriff George Patterson.  It's nice to see a Black actor cast on DS... but he seems like a stereotype!  I'm not Black, so I shouldn't try to explain.  Any African-American fans see the pilot?  It seems, to me, that the role was borderline racist.  I would have to look at that again... Maybe he was just supposed to be "goofy."  I will guess that they wrote the Sheriff as dumb... and it just came off badly...

I liked, aslo, the casting of Kelly Hu.  However, she didn't have enough airtime for me to judge anything.  I thought the casting of color was a good step.  It was claimed the cast was all teenagers... didn't look thgat way to me.

I thought the red hues were overdone.  I guess that was going to be part of the "look."  I would have minded it less if it didn't switch back from red to normal several times in the same scene.  It hurts the eyes.  The ending was very strange.  I would have trimmed that... again, I don't favor the re-make approach, because you have the combination of Laura/Angelique, but, if they HAVE to do it that way, this was fine.

The pilot was so touted as a ROUGH cut... very rough... not airable... rough, rough, rough.  WELL, it was pretty well put together for a rough cut.  It was much farther along than I was led to believe.  I've seen rough cuts before, and this was (if rough), the best put together "rough cut" I've ever seem.  Indeed, it looked one or two steps awau from totally presentable on TV.  Considering some of the garbage they show on TV presently, this "rough cut" is quite possibly Emmy-winning material -- it was a very entertaining show. 

[wes]

PS

I should add one thing to the above... The show had not only style (like John Yaeger would say), but also art.  It seemed, at times, like art.  (The original DS seemed like art a lot of the time, too.)

Especially in the introductions of the Vicki & Barnabas characters... the train ride, train station (Vicki outside in the rain), finding Barbnabas and how [spoiler]he is revived (the drop of blood)...[/spoiler]

Later, the scenes from Barnabas' perspective as he surveys Collinsport looking for a victim.  I don't want to say too much... I'm sure it will be seen, eventually, by all...

arty, but nice arty

[PennyDreadful]

 Arty?  Hmm.  I like that.  DS should be visually different from anything else you see on television.  In a sense, Collinsport exists in its own world, just somewhat askew from the world we know.  A stylized approach, reflecting the singularity of this world, makes a lot of sense for DS.  IIRC, the original series used a lot of eerie green lighting, which I always thought was pretty cool.

 I haven't actually seen the pilot, but my one "WTF?!" over the whole thing is:

 1967 -Grayson Hall... Check
 1991 -Barbara Steele... Check
 2004 -Kelly Hu???...  WTF?!

  Dr. Hoffman should be portrayed by a classic actress with major presence.  From what I've seen of Hu (X-Men 2), she doesn't fit the role at all.  I suppose I could be wrong though, as I haven't seen the pilot.   

  Why is it that most everyone on TV nowadays, female and male, has to look like a model and have the acting ability of a dead fish? 

  On a related note, I agree with another poster that the new Barnabas is hot.  BUT could he act the role?  THAT is what's most important IMO.  Barnabas should be a class act, with a really nasty dark side and a dose of guilt on the side.  What was all this nonsense I heard awhile back about Alec Newman being a "blue-collar Barnabas?"  From what I've read here though, I take it he was quite good acting-wise?

~Penny Dreadful~

[Miss_Winthrop]

Well since the show is not being picked up by anyone and they might show the pilot again at next year's fest, why not also show the outtakes and extra shots, interviews with the actors, behind the scenes and any other miscellaneous things that DS fans find interesting.

[Misa]

That would be great fun if they showed any outtakes and bloopers that they might have, also any promotion if they had gotten that far, would be very interesting too.

I really have to say that I am all for the remake, rather then a next generation thing. A next generation thing wouldn't have much to go on. Unless they cast Ben Cross and the 1991 company again. I couldn't imagine Dark Shadows without Barnabas, and having a next generation show with a new actor playing Barnabas would not cut it IMO.

A new actor playing the Barnabas role in a retelling, however, is okay. The story itself is great, so why not retell it? wes you seemed to enjoy most of the Pilot, and it was a retelling. I think, too, that a next generation story of Dark Shadows wouldn't have the size of audience that Star Trek had, and as more time goes by without a nationally shown Dark Shadows the more it is going to fade into TV history.

I want my Dark Shadows.

I also think that Dark Shadows was often great story telling. So remake it, and then add new stories to it. They are constantly redoing great stories, sometimes they do it really well. Look at all of the plays that get redone.

And who would want to see the next generation of Romeo and Juliet's families, what did they do after the kids killed themselves?

I would be interested in hearing as much as possible from those here who have seen the pilot. There is a chance that the pilot may never be seen again. So, while it is fresh in everyone's mind let's hear all about it.

Misa

[wes]

1967 -Grayson Hall... Check
 1991 -Barbara Steele... Check
 2004 -Kelly Hu???...  WTF?!

Well, you don't see enuf of Kelly's Julia to get an impression.  I think the casting was interesting... could have added an element.

The casting of Grayson was interesting, too.  I think that was going to be another Dr Guthrie... but, it worked out rather well...

They could have come full circle & gone back to the original Julian Hoffman.  A gay doc as straight Barnabas' ally would'ive worked very well, too.  There are so many possibilities with the DS property... what a loss we aren't seeing them!

[wes]

Barnabas should be a class act, with a really nasty dark side and a dose of guilt on the side.  What was all this nonsense I heard awhile back about Alec Newman being a "blue-collar Barnabas?" 

I thought Alec was fine.  I think he would have gotten better; but, that's not to imply he was bad.  He played just what you said, "...a class act, with a nasty dark side and a dose of guilt..."

He portrayed the part of the "reluctant" vampire Barnabas Collins.  TPTB gave him the direction and he followed perfectly... just like the producer & director said... he really did play what he was given to play.  He understood direction and the part he was given.  It was a fine job...

I don't know where the "blue-collar" thing comes from?  He was hired for a job, which he did very well.

[wes]

I really have to say that I am all for the remake, rather then a next generation thing. A next generation thing wouldn't have much to go on. Unless they cast Ben Cross and the 1991 company again. I couldn't imagine Dark Shadows without Barnabas, and having a next generation show with a new actor playing Barnabas would not cut it IMO.

I meant a "next generation thing" which would ignore the whole 1991 series!  Certainly, I would have done the re-make with Barnabas.  Sorry if that wasn't clear...

[Fletcher]

My biggest concern about the casting of Kelly Hu as Julia, actually has little to do with Julia.  I don't mind that Julia is Asian and exotic.  In 2004, I think that could have worked perfectly well -- in my opinion , it probably would have added to the character.

But, my concern about Hu in the role actually has more to do with the time-travel/multiple role thing.  What role would an Asian woman play in a 1795 aristocrastic New England household?  1840?  1897?  I hope this doesn't come across as racist (that is farthest from my intent), but other than Julia, I don't believe an Asian woman could have played any of Grayson Hall's multiple roles on the show.  She certainly couldn't play a French aristocrat or a gypsy.  Well, she could play them, but would she be convincing?

Yes, they probably could create some new characters specifically for her in each time-period -- characters of Asian decent, but that would seem to be done more as a casting device, than a sincere need for character.

I am reminded of the original Star Trek and one of the Star Trek movies.  Anytime the original crew went back in time, Spock was forced to hide or explain his physical differences in some comedic fashion.  Somehow, I don't think that kind of comedy would work on DS -- once maybe, but not time after time.

On the other hand, perhaps I am getting ahead of myself.  We don't even know if the producers of the 2004 DS were planning on using the "tried-and-true" multiple roles method. Perhaps they would have used an entirely different cast for each time period.  Hmmm -- something to think about.

Did any of you have similar concerns concering Kelly Hu?

[Stuart]

My biggest concern about the casting of Kelly Hu as Julia, actually has little to do with Julia.... my concern about Hu in the role actually has more to do with the time-travel/multiple role thing.

Mark Verheiden has stated he was not interested in doing the flashback sequences like the original, so it wouldn't have been an issue.

Also, for people asking about Blue Collar Barnabas - that's more an image thing than anything else, touted more in the planning stages than the execution.  Accordingly, Alec Newman's first scene shot (Barnabas in Vicki's bedroom) features him with designer stubble, which disappears for the rest of the pilot.  They decided afterwards that the look wasn't right, and so that scene would have been picked up and reshot had there been a series.

[FireRose]

I have always wondered if one of the reason's it wasn't completed was that they thought it would be to difficult and expensive to do each week in the style it was being done in. From what I have heard. The special effects were elaborate and state of the art in the style that you would see in a big screen movie.

Not to leave out... I have always heard it said that Dan Curtis expects things done his way and he will not bend. It is either his way or the highway.

The fact that it was not seeming to follow what Dan Curtis saw as Dark Shadows original concept. Kinda makes one wonder if the network changed their mind or if Dan Curtis pulled the plug himself.

FireRose