How do you think the Dark Shadows Festivals can be improved?

[Nancy]

<<I just meant if you could fly them from LA to NY then Boston would cost the same that's all."

Okay, let's look into the cost of bringing in the actors to Boston from New York.


Most people who live in NYC do not own cars, and I know the NYC actors who attend the fests dont own one.  So, they would have to have a car rented for them to travel to Boston.  Now, unfortunately, in NYC most car rental places insist on a minmum of two days if you rent the car on  weekend.  Car rentals in NY run as much as $70 a day or more.  Since the actors have different schedules, they would want to come up when they wanted.  You figure they would have the car for at least four days and if you add taxes (which is 8% in NY) to the total, you are looking at about $400 an actor.  This is about the price of airfare flying the LA based DS actors to the east whether it be Boston or NY.  

If you want to avoid the car rental thing and send the actors up by Amtrak train service, unreserved seating starts at around $150 round trip and if you travel on a Friday it can go as high at $181.00 per person.  So if each actor brings a spouse or friend along, you double the fare. Again, you are looking at costs similar to the airfare of bringing in the LA actors.

If you had the event in Newport, you are talking about skyrocket hotel prices. Newport is a wealthy area.  I've stayed there on business and with friends, and we paid big bucks for a decent hotel.   All the actors would have to be flown in to Providence, I believe, and then rent cars to be taken to Newport.  Car rentals there might not be all that much cheaper because of the resort areas near Providence.   The Amtrak schedule I looked at indicates there is no direct rail service to Newport.

The likelihood of getting reasonable accomodations during the summer months in Newport is slim to none. That is a big,wealthy resort area and a very popular one during the summer and early fall.  The price for everything goes up.

The trouble with promoting a festival being held in Boston is that it is not centrally located on the east coast. New York is.  It is easier to access for the people coming up from the south, and it has the added attraction of having Broadway and other key tourist attractions.  Many fans take advantage of the discounted hotel price for the Festivals in New York by coming in with their families, attend some of the fest, and then going out to see shows and other tourist attractions.  There are more tourist attractions in NYC.  (I Happen to like Boston a lot but if I give my friends across the country a choice of where to spend their time, they tend to pick NYC).   :-/  The actors too from LA would naturally prefer coming to NY and having access to the theater and those who were born and raised here visit family while in town for the festival.

The festivals in NY means no rental cars whatsoever for any of the actors, and no air fare for the four who do attend.   Rental cars are expensive.  The car insurance in New York is the highest in the nation (New Jersey is a close rival) which is one reason rentals are so high.    

I understand why many people would like to see the festivals in a city nearer to them.  It makes sense why they feel that way.   Unfortunately, practicality and finances dictate the the most reasonable locations for the DS festivals are New York and Los Angeles.

However, as I have said, anyone can put on a convention if they want to have a go at it in their own area of preference.  There is nothing to stop anyone from doing that.

Nancy

[JVjr.]

I've been a long time attender of these festivals and the one thing I would always recommend to fans that have never gone is, to go to your first because that is usually the best one you go to. Everything is new and exciting and I have rarely ever heard of a fan who didn't enjoy their first fest. As far as changes at the fest. goes. I would like to see more fan oriented events like fan videos, skits, costume galas, etc., because it would appear from all the reviews after the fest. one of the most common messages is "I got to meet this fan or that fan" and it just seems that anymore at these fests., that fans love seeing other fans that they haven't seen in a while or are meeting for the first time. I know personally that I always look forward to seeing the friends that I have made over the years at the fest., and spending time with them. The autograph lines have always been a problem good luck to the one who solves that problem. I think there should be alternative programming for such events as the auction. This way fans who do not wish to be there for the auction can have another option if they wish. I would love to see the stars speak more about the show like they used to years ago, even if some of us have to hear the same question answered over and over again. I used to love some of the stories that they would tell all of us, and i'm sure there are fans out there that would love to hear these stories and just don't get the chance anymore, because basically they spend much of their time speaking on things they are selling, rather than the show. At least at the cast reunion you get some stories, which is why, along with the fan events, the cast reunion has always been my favorite event.  

[RingoCollins]

A couple of points about other conventions techniques.

Check in:  At the registration table, tickets are bought, or torn [for those who mail ordered] each person is issued a colored/labeled plastic-paper wrist band [cannot be removed/transferred to another non-paying person] that can be flashed to the door guard at each exhibit.  Only takes a few seconds to attach wrist band, but must be worn all day to attend stuff.  Wrist bands are numbered for door prizes and autograph lines.

Autograph lines:  using the wrist band number, guests have set times and time limits per 'sitting' for signings.  Only certain wrist band numbers are allowed in lines for the particular signing - time frames and wrist band numbers are posted on wipe-off boards/bulleten boards so people know when to be in the area for wrist band times.  Doesn't have to be absolute numerical order, just 150- 200,  300 -350, something like that.  This reduces just standing in line time, and prevents the quest from being 'trapped' at the table due to the length of the line.  Most major guests are assigned a 'handler' to act as escort [see DS hooker thread ] and play 'bad-guy' when someone tries to corner the quest for autographs when not at a signing.  Also pretty strct quantities of items are posted in place for major guests, 3 to 5 the max, also reducing the time frame for the lines.   Photos with the guest are usually handled by signing the items, then moving beside the guest as they sign for the next person in line.

For major guests, I cannot remember being in line more than a half hour or so, and that is usually reasonable, and ya get to chat with fellow fans, at a random selection.

Usually by the third day of a 3 day show, most autograph lines are pretty well taken care of, and the whole process loosens up a bit, and the guests can chat and take more time with mingling and being less trapped [and some of the Beatle shows average 15,000 attending!!]

All guests are paid [a handsome sum in some cases] by the promoters, and most have photos, books, CDs, some kinda stuff to sell in the line for the autograph [ and most usually sign those items in addition to the items brought by fans, and over the limit set by the promoters]

[jennifer]

<<I just meant if you could fly them from LA to NY then Boston would cost the same that's all."

Okay, let's look into the cost of bringing in the actors to Boston from New York.


Most people who live in NYC do not own cars, and I know the NYC actors who attend the fests dont own one.  So, they would have to have a car rented for them to travel to Boston.  Now, unfortunately, in NYC most car rental places insist on a minmum of two days if you rent the car on  weekend.  Car rentals in NY run as much as $70 a day or more.  Since the actors have different schedules, they would want to come up when they wanted.  You figure they would have the car for at least four days and if you add taxes (which is 8% in NY) to the total, you are looking at about $400 an actor.  This is about the price of airfare flying the LA based DS actors to the east whether it be Boston or NY.  

If you want to avoid the car rental thing and send the actors up by Amtrak train service, unreserved seating starts at around $150 round trip and if you travel on a Friday it can go as high at $181.00 per person.  So if each actor brings a spouse or friend along, you double the fare. Again, you are looking at costs similar to the airfare of bringing in the LA actors.

If you had the event in Newport, you are talking about skyrocket hotel prices. Newport is a wealthy area.  I've stayed there on business and with friends, and we paid big bucks for a decent hotel.   All the actors would have to be flown in to Providence, I believe, and then rent cars to be taken to Newport.  Car rentals there might not be all that much cheaper because of the resort areas near Providence.   The Amtrak schedule I looked at indicates there is no direct rail service to Newport.

The likelihood of getting reasonable accomodations during the summer months in Newport is slim to none. That is a big,wealthy resort area and a very popular one during the summer and early fall.  The price for everything goes up.

The trouble with promoting a festival being held in Boston is that it is not centrally located on the east coast. New York is.  It is easier to access for the people coming up from the south, and it has the added attraction of having Broadway and other key tourist attractions.  Many fans take advantage of the discounted hotel price for the Festivals in New York by coming in with their families, attend some of the fest, and then going out to see shows and other tourist attractions.  There are more tourist attractions in NYC.  (I Happen to like Boston a lot but if I give my friends across the country a choice of where to spend their time, they tend to pick NYC).   :-/  The actors too from LA would naturally prefer coming to NY and having access to the theater and those who were born and raised here visit family while in town for the festival.

The festivals in NY means no rental cars whatsoever for any of the actors, and no air fare for the four who do attend.   Rental cars are expensive.  The car insurance in New York is the highest in the nation (New Jersey is a close rival) which is one reason rentals are so high.    

I understand why many people would like to see the festivals in a city nearer to them.  It makes sense why they feel that way.   Unfortunately, practicality and finances dictate the the most reasonable locations for the DS festivals are New York and Los Angeles.

However, as I have said, anyone can put on a convention if they want to have a go at it in their own area of preference.  There is nothing to stop anyone from doing that.

Nancy

they can all stay at my house i have a long driveway
I'll even pick them up at the airport and feed them!
plus I have a place on the Cape not far from Newport!
I'm sorry we even mentioned other cities  and i know where NY and Boston are located! sorry nancybut i don't need a lecture i know you mean well but frankly you have really upset me and please don't reply and tell me i have misread you frankly you have taken a wish and ruined it for me !

i

[Karen_#2]

These have all been interesting posts, re: relocating the DS Fest to (fill in the city of your choice).

Once upon a time, I used to be active in another national fan club. For a number of years, they had "The Meeting of the Minds" in New Orleans. Central to the Continental US, and most everyone could make it. A few years ago, they moved it to Key West   . The first year, it was a hit. But in subsequent years, gradual attendance was decreasing (but you couldn't tell because there is usually two other festivals going on around the same time), unless you were from "that part of the country".

Some of the factors include added cost and accessibility getting to KW vs NO. Others were finding reliable lodging in a much smaller area. The sponsoring organization did have to import the band members and pay them, an added cost   .

Participating in many of the "posts" similar to this one, I heard the same comments. West Coast fans wanted more in their direction. Problem was, the "head beak"   and some of his compadres lived in the middle and eastern part of the country (with exception to a couple of them who lived on the Left Coast). He, as a rule, didn't aways show up, but one year he did. Mainly, band members of his showed up and played.

I guess my point is, in order to get hit by lightening, you need to go stand in the rain. It comes down to practicality and the cost of putting on such an event. These type of events are *very* costly to put on, and they entail a huge, and sometimes excruciating amount of planning and detail to pull off so *all*, or at the very least, most all will have a positive experience when putting down their own coin to attend these events.

It could be worse...they might not exist at all simply because of the cost and practicality of putting it on. Enjoy them while you can.  Better to travel and see it once than to not have the experience of going at all.

just my .02,  

Karen #2

[jennifer]

These have all been interesting posts, re: relocating the DS Fest to (fill in the city of your choice).

Once upon a time, I used to be active in another national fan club. For a number of years, they had "The Meeting of the Minds" in New Orleans. Central to the Continental US, and most everyone could make it. A few years ago, they moved it to Key West   . The first year, it was a hit. But in subsequent years, gradual attendance was decreasing (but you couldn't tell because there is usually two other festivals going on around the same time), unless you were from "that part of the country".

Some of the factors include added cost and accessibility getting to KW vs NO. Others were finding reliable lodging in a much smaller area. The sponsoring organization did have to import the band members and pay them, an added cost   .

Participating in many of the "posts" similar to this one, I heard the same comments. West Coast fans wanted more in their direction. Problem was, the "head beak"   and some of his compadres lived in the middle and eastern part of the country (with exception to a couple of them who lived on the Left Coast). He, as a rule, didn't aways show up, but one year he did. Mainly, band members of his showed up and played.

I guess my point is, in order to get hit by lightening, you need to go stand in the rain. It comes down to practicality and the cost of putting on such an event. These type of events are *very* costly to put on, and they entail a huge, and sometimes excruciating amount of planning and detail to pull off so *all*, or at the very least, most all will have a positive experience when putting down their own coin to attend these events.

It could be worse...they might not exist at all simply because of the cost and practicality of putting it on. Enjoy them while you can.  Better to travel and see it once than to not have the experience of going at all.

just my .02,  

Karen #2

you know Karen just on my way to bed when i came across your post it was very sweet and to the point
thank you
jennifer
forget DS fests I'm going to dream Timothy Dalton as
HeathCliff comes to Boston

[Nancy]

Jennifer wrote:
<they can all stay at my house i have a long driveway
I'll even pick them up at the airport and feed them!
plus I have a place on the Cape not far from Newport!
I'm sorry we even mentioned other cities  and i know where NY and Boston are located! sorry nancybut i don't need a lecture i know you mean well but frankly you have really upset me and please don't reply and tell me i have misread you frankly you have taken a wish and ruined it for me !>>

Nothing is ruined since there are alternatives.  But people have to be willing to take on the work involved and fully explore the practicalities to make it work.  The purpose of this thread was to give suggestions about how to improve festivals, and some asked why the festivals were not held in other cities besides New York and Los Angeles.  I pointed out the financial aspects of having a festival in two suggested areas: Boston and Newport.  As they were suggested as alternative sites for a major festival, they were game for further discussion and analysis.  I gave what I knew would be the obstacles for having a full blown festival at either site.  What I did was share my opinion about the cost involved with Boston and Newport.  This is what you would do if you were on a committee or any group of people, such as those contributing to this thread.  You can't ever hope to get what you what if you don't fully explore the obstacles first.  Obstacles can be overcome.  Alternatives can be found.

Alternatives including a group of fans planning a mini-convention in another city further north or in the midwest and inviting just one or two of the actors. Or, you can just not invite any actors at all and spend the weekend in a fan-only environment sharing artwork and crafts oriented to DS, watch episodes, the movies and have a costume ball maybe.  These are things fans enjoy doing and there is no reason why fans in Boston or anywhere else cannot further consider having a mini-con with no actors - fans only - or try to get just one or two actors to come.  This cuts down drastically on expenses/overhead and would allow DS fans in other areas of the country to get together without having to travel to either coast.   You have access to publicity via ShadowGram and the internet and whether or not anyone had one or two actors or just had a fan-only event, they could get the function promoted easily enough.  

Thinking on a smaller scale would enable fans who can't or won't travel to either coast to have a DS event in their area.  That would be a great thing.

Nancy

[Nancy]

Autograph lines:  using the wrist band number, guests have set times and time limits per 'sitting' for signings.  Only certain wrist band numbers are allowed in lines for the particular signing - time frames and wrist band numbers are posted on wipe-off boards/bulleten boards so people know when to be in the area for wrist band times.  Doesn't have to be absolute numerical order, just 150- 200,  300 -350, something like that.  This reduces just standing in line time, and prevents the quest from being 'trapped' at the table due to the length of the line.  Most major guests are assigned a 'handler' to act as escort [see DS hooker thread ] and play 'bad-guy' when someone tries to corner the quest for autographs when not at a signing.  Also pretty strct quantities of items are posted in place for major guests, 3 to 5 the max, also reducing the time frame for the lines.   Photos with the guest are usually handled by signing the items, then moving beside the guest as they sign for the next person in line>>

This is a great idea, Ringo.  There are (or were) restrictions at one time about how many items could be autographed at a time.  One of the problems I heard about at the festival is that some of the actors insist on selling their wares during the autograph line at their table.  This holds up the line, as you can imagine.  It would be awkward, I imagine, to tell one of the actors he/she could not sell their stuff during the autograph line so I don't have a suggestion for handling that . .

There are people who only come for one day so your suggestion of the wristband would need to be altered to serve the needs of the single day attendee.  But I like the wristband idea.

Nancy

[Midnite]

Obviously, this discussion has led to hurt feelings.  I've often stated that debate on these forums is advocated, but NOT to the point of contentiousness.

I'm asking that the focus of the topic, from this point on, be on Festival organization and activities.  Anything else, including any disillusionment one might feel about fans or actors at these events or the subject of Festival locations, will be removed.  I know that the board rules support me on this; please note the following statement from guideline #3:

Likewise, these disagreements should not be continued beyond the normal limits of interesting discourse. Argument for argument's sake is not welcome.

Darren has invited fans to offer input about how Fests can be improved.  I thought it was a WONDERFUL opportunity for any of us that might decide to attend a DS Fest at some point in the future, and fans have made marvelous points, but if anyone wants to waste this chance by arguing, then I want to be very clear that my priority as moderator will always be the comfort level of all visitors to these forums-- lurkers and posters alike-- and I WILL lock the topic to further posting if any argument occurs.

Thanks,

Midnite

[TEStokes]

Concerning the suggestion that fans wear wrist bands that permit them to see different actors at different times, logistically I have to wonder if it is possible. Will there be monitors actively checking them? There could be quite an ugly incident indeed if someone was waiting 2 hours in line for Lara Parker only to have her say, "Oh, I am sorry, you have the wrong wrist band, goodbye." ?!?


--JAKE

[VAM]

There could be quite an ugly incident indeed if someone was waiting 2 hours in line for Lara Parker only to have her say, "Oh, I am sorry, you have the wrong wrist band, goodbye." ?!?


--JAKE

I don't see that happening because I think Ms. Parker would still give the autograph to the individual.

[Julia99]

I took Nancy's suggestion and emailed my thoughts directly to the DS Organization and here is their reply (excerpted)--

"Electronic registration - I only wish it were possible!

The 'cards' are pre-printed (by computer) for those who pre-register.  Elsewhere, I have watched 'cards' printed on-site for those who register at the door and believe me, it takes longer than printing the name by hand because someone has to go to the printer and bring the card back to where it is given out.  The physical layout does not provide enough space for a computer and printer where the registration takes place.

It's always difficult to keep the guests on time - they must be kept happy and sometimes they run over the time allowed.  It's a big challenge to keep the Festival on time and I admit it's not always possible.

I like your idea of a memorial photo and book for the families of deceased actors!

Space is limited for setting up tables at which fans can congregate.  Let's see what space will be available in Anaheim. ):  

[Luciaphile]

It seems like there are two options here:

1. Interested parties take the practicable and practical suggestions to the DS fest people, (i.e. not penalizing the pre-registrants by making them wait longer than the people who just show up, wrist bands, etc) and hope for the best.

2. Interested parties explore options for doing their own mini-cons in alternative cities.  That involves an awful lot of work, but it is doable, particularly if you do as was suggested and limit the festivities to smaller sizes and maybe one or two guests.

It's perfectly workable to set up alternatives or to improve what's already in place, but you have to be practical and keep in mind what's involved.  Heck, maybe you could come up with something really cool and fun, simply because it was on a smaller and more intimate scale.

Luciaphil

[Raineypark]

This has absolutely nothing to do with festivals, but with the guests I presume most people go to see....

Has anyone ever tried to get one of the performers to get on a board like this one, for a pre-arranged "talk to the guest" event?  

Is such a thing even do-able technically?  I know NOTHING about how this cyberstuff works, and I can just imagine how complicated it would be to have all 120 of us trying to get a word in with our DS guest, but heck, I'd sit up half the night and wait in a cyberline to "talk" to some of them.  

I'm sure it would be nothing like the thrill of meeting them in person, but it might be as close as some of us ever get.

Midnite, Mysterious....am I wishing for the impossible here?
Raineypark

[RingoCollins]

...to wonder if it is possible. Will there be monitors actively checking them? .

--JAKE

Yes there are quite an 'army' of volunteers [many are younger fans, who get in free that way, and it gives them something to do!] at Beatlefest, all constantly checking wristbands, and at 'time critical' events like autograph lines, the security dudes are marines - literally MARINES, or off duty NYC cops! - and not even those with intense attitude give these guys a lot of trouble.  And that usually takes the heat off the guest, I can't recall ever seeing a problem in a line or function at one of the shows.  Now, sure, Mark the promoter takes his lumps verbally sometimes, being acused of being a Nazi and making a lot of money off the convention, but truth is, it is always increasing in attendance [like this board ] and it is certainly a wonderful weekend for Beatle-people.

As to the logistics of the daily wrist band routine, yep, every body has to check in at registration desk each day [and many only go for one or two days - and each day has a separate admission charge, or a 3-day pass]  Each days wrist band is a different color, or one day has stars, the next day has dots, etc.

The real key to any of these issues is planning and communication by the promoters.   Let the fans know what the conditions, and 'rules' are gonna be.  Let the guests know what they will be dealing with, and what their conditons [and expectations] will be.  Have enough help [volunteer and 'professional'] and have them trained and able to use reasonable authority and tact.  From my personal experiences with the DS celebs, they have been more than accomodating, even with some exceptionally over-enthusiastic fans [and a few nut-cases! ]  The fans also need to have realistic expectation of what the event will be like, and practice moderation [and medication, such as in my case!! ]

We are indeed fortunate to have such opportunites to tell those folks 'thanks' for the excitement, happiness and distraction they have brought to an otherwise BORING situation.  [Letterman has been delayed by some ball game the last few nights and I have stared at the Leno show, wondering 'how does this guy keep his job?']

How many such fan gatherings are there?  The Waltonfest?  One Day At A Time-athon?  Dragnet-work?
We are lucky.

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