How do you think the Dark Shadows Festivals can be improved?

[Julia99]

Darren, I am so glad you asked this question.  I was just thinking about it tonights (since I have the jetlag can't sleep thing going and insane trivia is flooding my brain!).  It appears at the 2 fests i've been to they are very focused on certain actors, e.g. Ms. Parker, Mr. Frid and some of the other actors get short shift even in the Video montages.  It goes without saying that I think Grayson is one of the primary actors who gets little attention at the Fest, sometimes even hostile attention. I'd like to see that change and all the primary actors appropriately highlighted and remembered, even if could not participate in a Fest (either cuz of death or fear of crowds).

But here are some thoughts:
**electronic registration, via the web.  
**preprinted registration cards (the wait to have that woman write my name in NYC last year was silly and excrutiating--let's use technology and laptop computers and portable printers!  We've got enough geeks to make it happen.   )
**How about large poster-size photographs of the actors who've passed on with books to write down memories or thoughts about them, perhaps for their families?
**Memoriams up front rather than tacked on at the end
**A stronger facilitator to keep Chris Pennock 'on time' and not give short shrift to other speakers
**video excerpts of the actors' other work (stage, television, etc.)
**tables dedicated to particular actors/characters where other like minded folks could hang out or check-in, exchange stuff or realize they are not alone.   The JuliaList has talked about it but no definite plans have been made.  Might be nice for the Quentin-files, Angelique-files and Barnabas-Angelique, Barnabas-Julia, Barnabas-Roxanne groups. . is there a Barnabas-Roxanne group?

I could make other 'facility layout and organizational' suggestions but only if you really really want them.

[jennifer]

are you saying Dave Loggins should be a guest? [he was originally from Bristol VA, and the orig version was 'please come to Bristol']

music trivia returns after [hopefully] one last technicolor yawn.

actually i was thinking of that song when i posted that Ringo
but speaking of music trivia I'm trying to get my hands on  a copy of the song "can't find the time to tell you"
by I think Orpheus`(know I spelled it wrong) do you know of any web sites that sell old records!thanks

[AllenCollins]

Jennifer,
Here you go:

www.californiaalbums.com

or

www.midnightrecords.com

I believe you are correct, Orpheus does, "Cant Find The Time To Tell You". I Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

B

[joe integlia]

david nahmod is the friend i mentioned before who has big issues with fan behavior and i faxed him a copy of this post and he faxed me back(he is not on line)his response that i am transcibing for u:
One major way festivals could be improved is to raise the standards of behavior + hold people accountable for what they do at festivals. since i began attending in 1983, in the SHADOWCON days, ive found the fan behavior torwards others to be overwhelmingly negative. it often seems that 90% of the fans are not on speaking terms with each other and that most of them consider this something to be proud of. ive also had people try to convince me that im supposed to hate the people they dont like. hard to believe the people acting this way are all over the age of 30.
its time to stigmatize the bad behavior at festivals. it is the hate mongers who should be stigmatized, not those they victimized. we can further improve fandom by gently, lovingly urging people to be kinder to each other, to be polite to everyone whose paths they cross and to end the grudgeholding. its time we learned that not being friends does not make us enemies. DAVID NAHMOD

[Raineypark]

Well, this was an eye-opening post!

I've never attended a Fan Festival of any sort so I haven't a clue what they're like....but if this is an accurate depiction of what goes on....how disappointing!

Is this true?  Are people really that antagonistic towards one another?  Over what?  Who has the larger collection of memorabilia?  Who's collected the greater number of autographs?  Who made what rude comment about someone else's favorite actor?  

All this time I've gotten the impression that you all have a wonderful time every year at these things....are you talking about the same Festivals?

I've been telling a friend about this great forum for weeks now and she's psyched at the idea of the next Festival in NY in 2003....what do I tell her now?
Anybody?

Raineypark

[Happybat]

Raineypark,

Although I have only attended two DS Fests so far, I can assure you that the fans there were a very friendly group of people, eager to share their enthusiasm and to get to know everyone else.  Not being a natural "mingler" by nature, I still never felt left out or treated unkindly by anyone there.  At the Halloween Fest in 2000, GingerCat and I were both amazed at the attendees'  patience and gentleness in the midst of what we would have to call a rather poorly organized event.  Well, that is at least my experience so far; I can only speak for myself, of course, but I would advise any fan to attend at least one Fest.  It is quite an experience and a fun one to boot!

My heart goes out to David whose experience with fan behavior had been so negative.   It sounds as if some of those fans had been sipping Dr. Longworth's potion!  

Otherwise I agree with the idea of mailing the tickets, although I can see a problem there with people coming from overseas.  Off-hand, I would love to attend a costume ball with all of the stars (in costumes, too, of course).  No lines, no waiting, just fun!

And Bobubas, love that pic of you and Terry! At the Halloween 2000 Fest, GingerCat and I had the honor of driving Terry from the hotel to the Fest.  A very sweet lady indeed!

[Gothick]

Hi Raineypark,

Love your post about the anachronisms in the current storyline btw--I foresee that as turning into a very long section.  The Countess' clothing is about 40 years out of date (maybe more, but those dresses were on their way OUT by 1770 for sure--why didn't they put her in a powdered wig?  Maybe the powder gave Grayson a sneezing fit!)  So there's lots to write about on that topic.

I've been a very erratic Festival attendee myself.  The main reason I keep going is because of my friends among the fans.  I do think there is some backbiting or cliquishness as Joe's friend mentioned, but I think if you don't hang out with certain groups of people who mainly keep to themselves, you'd never notice it.  I think this kind of thing was more noticeable back in the 1980s when an event that drew 200 people was big news.  They routinely get 1500 on Saturday alone in NYC and last year's not-previously-announced mail-registration only for Sat. was presumably to circumvent fire code violations due to the crowds who always show up for the New York Festivals.  I think the fandom has really grown now that the show has become a mainstay (and wisely so) on the Sci Fi Channel.  It clearly has an appeal that transcends time!  And DS fandom has a magic that transcends petty fannish squabbling.

So, I hope you encourage your friend to join you at a Festival.  I bet you'll have a great time.  

As for improving the Festivals--the actors I really loved on the show are all dead.  They used to do more skits (I will never forget a marvelous one act thing Marie Wallace did one year) but if the skits are non-DS the fans often don't have much interest.  I was so upset about people coming in and going out and talking during a wonderful performance David Selby did in NYC a few years ago.     There used to be a video room set up where they would screen episodes and rare videos of other projects the actors had appeared in.  Perhaps these features will appear again at future festivals.  I've been meaning for years to approach the Festival committee about doing a tribute to Grayson Hall featuring clips from my collection, but I haven't ever managed to find the time to write up a proposal.  It would be lovely to have one for Thayer David, as well, though presumably fan interest would be smaller in that.  He is one of my top favorite DS thespians ... I do appreciate it that a few others here have written appreciatively about his work, as well.  Jonathan Frid commented once at a Festival about how sweet Thayer was and how he was like everyone's favorite Uncle on set.

Gawd, that was a never ending post!

Cheers, Steve

[RingoCollins]

.  Not being a natural "mingler" by nature,

Wasn't that a Korman movie?

Helping out with the Beatlefan conventions, which draw something like 15,000 for a three day show, and been at it since 1974, the folks that run that show pretty well have it down to 'automatic pilot'.  [but still some complain about the very things listed here]  Autograph sessions are pretty well organized, with limits on items, small panels are set up to allow 'intimate' Q&A sessions [OK I might monopolize one certain cast member !!]  Fan-specialty sessions are loosely orgainized for 'focus groups' [and the dreaded all-night singalong drinkathon]

I can get ya in touch with the ring leaders of the Beatlefest, I you would wanna talk to them about how they arrange scheduling, layout, logistics and some other stuff, if you wnat to contact them.  The only one that is always a sore spot is the behavior of the attendees - its a fine line to throw a big party like that, and keep everyone civil, friendly, and well behaved [and keep'em coming back next year!]  Don't know if anyone would have THE solution there! [except maybe a stun-gun!]

Lemmeno if ya want to contact those promoters!!

[Nancy]

I very much doubt the festival will ever print a "Code of Conduct" in the program.  There's no reason, and you can bet that if  the adults attending these functions who are rude and pushy, some "code of conduct" printed in the program isn't going to suddenly make them change their ways - be a ray of light that penetrates the brain where common sense and courtesy never had before.    The code of conduct at the convention is the same for any other large gathering of people.  You have rude, pushy and otherwise ill-behaved fans at sport events, book signings with high profile guests, and many other functions that have a lot of people wanting the same thing at the same time. When people are rude and pushy, or refuse to be civil, you throw them out of the event. That is what happens at any other event and I have witnessed two occasions where obnoxious fans were ejected from the festival area for being supremely bad mannered.  We are not talking about some unusual situation here at the festival that doesn't happen elsewhere.

I can understand the wish to have festivals located in other areas of the country such as Boston, Chicago, Dallas (they had two there), etc. but the reason the festivals are held either in New York or Los Angeles is that most of the actors live in or the other city.  If the festival where held in some other area of the country, then ALL of the guests would have to be flown in, transportation provided etc.  That is an enormous expense.  As it is, most fan conventions charge hefty entrance fees and the DS Festivals still charge only $25.00 for the whole weekend.  I've heard that fees at other conventions can run $25.00 just for the day and then actors charge per autograph.

Nancy

Nancy

[Nancy]

Grayson Hall seems to be the most made fun of actor at the festivals.  It would certainly mean much much to the many Grayson fans there are to have a tribute to her rather than to hear the negative things said about her.

Unfortunately, in terms of creating tributes and programming to the actors not as prominent, yet important, I can only conclude this is not done because there is not a large enough market. Producers and promoters pick up on what they see people want most.  The festival organizers have always said that Frid was the single biggest draw to the festivals (when he went) so everything was geared around that.  I imagine some of the actors are glad he doesnt attend anymore so they get more time in the Q&As.  All the questions went to him or Lara Parker it seemed which wasn't really fair to the others.  There is a videotape of a Q&A in 1985 when everyone was asking Frid questions and he finally just asked the audience to ask the other actors on stage a question and not just him.  So at least he was conscious of their getting the short shrift.  

I don't know how to engage the audience more concerning a dead actor, such as Grayson Hall, but a tribute might work if only it would be something more respectful.  I bet you'd do a good job with that, Steve.  It would certainly be a change from all the skits you see making fun of her.   She certainly has her fans.

Nancy

[Nancy]

Julia99 wrote:
**tables dedicated to particular actors/characters where other like minded folks could hang out or check-in, exchange stuff or realize they are not alone.   The JuliaList has talked about it but no definite plans have been made.  Might be nice for the Quentin-files, Angelique-files and Barnabas-Angelique, Barnabas-Julia, Barnabas-Roxanne groups. . is there a Barnabas-Roxanne group? >>

I think this would be a great idea, especially since the online fandom is so strong.  Those fans not online or who don't know about these groups would be able to get in touch with the online fan world and share their interests.  The programming at the festival will always dictated by who the majority of the fans want to see; you can always find other people people and create a new "majority".

[Nancy]

Raineypark wrote:
<<Is this true?  Are people really that antagonistic towards one another?  Over what?  Who has the larger collection of memorabilia?  Who's collected the greater number of autographs?  Who made what rude comment about someone else's favorite actor?  

All this time I've gotten the impression that you all have a wonderful time every year at these things....are you talking about the same Festivals?

I've been telling a friend about this great forum for weeks now and she's psyched at the idea of the next Festival in NY in 2003....what do I tell her now?
Anybody?>>

I have friends who've attended many fan conventions for other TV shows over the years.  They also attend the DS Festivals and invariably they have commented over and over how much nicer the DS Fans and conventions are compared to the others that are out there.  

There are always a few people who try to make things unpleasant for others, and I don't care what organization you are involved with.  There are always people who take themselves and their involvement a little too seriously.  If this becomes a burning issue for anyone and makes fandom unpleasant as a whole, the logical recourse is to simply not attend the festivals anymore or be involved in fandom.  Why be aggravated? There isn't enough time in the day as it is to do all the things we want to do, or explore new things so why put up with anything that only brings upset?  There are plenty of other things to do than watch DS, attend festivals or worry about people who aren't nice.  Since this activity is recreation, it makes sense to avoid those who make you unhappy or just avoid the whole thing entirely and so something else.

I've been to all the New York area festivals since 1984 and the majority of fans are friendly and the conventions must be fun as the same people come over and over again each year and spend big bucks to do so. The conventions have gotten bigger and bigger as well.

I advise anyone who has experienced the festivals and are continuously unhappy to find something else to do that pleases them. Life is way too short to do otherwise.  For those who have yet to attend a festival, it can be great fun especially when meeting people from online who've corresponded with for a long time.  These events are pretty much what the attendee makes of it.

And that's my two cents on that subject.  I think Ive run this up to a dime actually. Didn't mean to do that.

Nancy

[Nancy]

Raineypark wrote:
<<Is this true?  Are people really that antagonistic towards one another?  Over what?  Who has the larger collection of memorabilia?  Who's collected the greater number of autographs?  Who made what rude comment about someone else's favorite actor?  

All this time I've gotten the impression that you all have a wonderful time every year at these things....are you talking about the same Festivals?

I've been telling a friend about this great forum for weeks now and she's psyched at the idea of the next Festival in NY in 2003....what do I tell her now?
Anybody?>>

I have friends who've attended many fan conventions for other TV shows over the years.  They also attend the DS Festivals and invariably they have commented over and over how much nicer the DS Fans and conventions are compared to the others that are out there.  

There are always a few people who try to make things unpleasant for others, and I don't care what organization you are involved with.  There are always people who take themselves and their involvement a little too seriously.  If this becomes a burning issue for anyone and makes fandom unpleasant as a whole, the logical recourse is to simply not attend the festivals anymore or be involved in fandom.  Why be aggravated? There isn't enough time in the day as it is to do all the things we want to do, or explore new things so why put up with anything that only brings upset?  There are plenty of other things to do than watch DS, attend festivals or worry about people who aren't nice.  Since this activity is recreation, it makes sense to avoid those who make you unhappy or just avoid the whole thing entirely and so something else.

I've been to all the New York area festivals since 1984 and the majority of fans are friendly and the conventions must be fun as the same people come over and over again each year and spend big bucks to do so. The conventions have gotten bigger and bigger as well.

I advise anyone who has experienced the festivals and are continuously unhappy to find something else to do that pleases them. Life is way too short to do otherwise.  For those who have yet to attend a festival, it can be great fun especially when meeting people from online who've corresponded with for a long time.  These events are pretty much what the attendee makes of it.

And that's my two cents on that subject.  I think Ive run this up to a dime actually. Didn't mean to do that.

Nancy

[Birdie]

I have only attended one fest, the one last summer.  Unfortuately I never connected with anyone who takes part in this forum.  I was with my sister, my daughter age 12, son 10, at the time, hubby and other daughter who breezed in and out.  For the most part I found the people in the lines for autographs to be very nice, easy to talk too.  We had nice conversations with these people.  We only ran into one couple who were a bit on the pushy side.  Cutting us in line, it didn't bother me. Everywhere you go you meet some people who are total jerks, just comes with living.  I tend to be a slightly over protective Mom and we felt very comfortable letting the kids leave the line and roam a bit.  I really didn't experience any poor manners.

On a funny note--some woman hit on my husband which my seventeen year old daughter thought was too funny. She is still laughing about it.  He isn't even a DS fan but a great sport to go to the fest and put up with me.

Birdie

[Midnite]

joe,

Your message was modified to remove the mention of a serious personal problem that David has described.  I sympathize with him and feel that if he has been negatively targeted in any way that he should pursue appropriate avenues with which to deal with the issue, but I do not feel that posting it on these forums is either productive or appropriate.

DS fandom does seem to have its share of politics.  However, I've never found the majority of fans to be poorly behaved or hateful, and in fact if I've seen these types of behavior at all it was from a small minority of people.  I've met some of the most generous, fun-loving, and friendly people ever through DS venues.

Obviously David has had different experiences and I'm sorry for that and hope that he will eventually find the same level of enjoyment that I've had while attending the last 5 Fests.  While I can't imagine how fan behavior could be regulated, I think his words here are lovely and ring true even beyond fandom:

we can further improve fandom by gently, lovingly urging people to be kinder to each other, to be polite to everyone whose paths they cross and to end the grudgeholding. its time we learned that not being friends does not make us enemies.