Author Topic: And Yet Another New Slideshow  (Read 46476 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Gothick

  • FULL ASCENDANT
  • ********
  • Posts: 6608
  • Karma: +124/-2883
  • Gender: Male
  • Somebody book me a suite at Wyndcliffe, NOW!
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #180 on: October 17, 2013, 05:18:30 AM »
I meant to ask... beyond the line in today's image, was there ever any acknowledgement that Liz noticed that Julia had just disappeared overnight?

G.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #181 on: October 17, 2013, 07:41:21 AM »
No. But then the entire rest of the film takes place on the day/night after Julia's disappearance and there are just a few other things keeping Elizabeth's attention.  [hall2_wink]

Offline dom

  • Long Lost Cousin Returned
  • Global Moderator
  • SENIOR ASCENDANT
  • *****
  • Posts: 12159
  • Karma: +591/-43086
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #182 on: October 17, 2013, 03:13:00 PM »
Roger's choosing to leave was my only real 'emotional' disappointment with the film's plot and it is only because of my being an OS watching fan.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #183 on: October 17, 2013, 07:54:25 PM »
A bit of old business from the previous scene in the slideshow: even though I'd already taken the capture that I'd wanted to post, I completely forgot to say that I love the look on JLM's face when Barnabas catches Roger looking for the way to access the secret stairway he'd caught Barnabas exiting from earlier in the film.


But then, as I've pretty much already said, I love everything about JLM's performance in the film. He was flawless. And whether on his own or on instruction from Burton, he gave Roger some fascinating tics that certainly hint that there's much more to Roger than we got to see in the film. And it's a terrible shame that if they were meant to actually pay off in the film, the pay off scene(s) ended up on the cutting room floor.  [sad10]

Offline dom

  • Long Lost Cousin Returned
  • Global Moderator
  • SENIOR ASCENDANT
  • *****
  • Posts: 12159
  • Karma: +591/-43086
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #184 on: October 17, 2013, 08:34:01 PM »
I agree 100 percent.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #185 on: October 18, 2013, 12:36:02 AM »
Speaking of JLM material that was left on the cutting room floor, one thing that I do tend to agree with was how Roger's big apology to David was cut. I'm sure JLM must have rocked it, but Burton probably did make the right choice by leaving it out because he thought it muddied Roger's arc and seemed out of place. The absence of an apology preserves Roger's character as the despicable bastard that the majority of the rest of the film presents him as: a man who would selfishly (to put it mildly) choose money over his own son. In that respect it was probably more effective to just see Roger look to Elizabeth and Barnabas -


- glance down at David -


- but then simply turn on his heels to pick up his bags and go -


- leaving David devastated -


- and in tears.

Though, even with all that being said, it would have been nice to have seen the full version of the scene play out as a deleted/extended scene on the Blu-ray. But alas...

Offline Josette

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • NEW ASCENDANT
  • ******
  • Posts: 4598
  • Karma: +75/-3055
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #186 on: October 18, 2013, 07:16:56 AM »
How do you know that there was a scene like that?
Josette

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #187 on: October 18, 2013, 04:12:24 PM »
I forget exactly which online interview it was in, but in one of the online interviews that was posted after the film opened Tim Burton talked about how Roger's apology was cut and why. (Seth Grahame-Smith may have also brought it up.)

If I had more time right now I'd look it up in the In Release topic because I'm pretty sure it was referred to and at least briefly discussed at the time.

Offline Midnite

  • Exec Moderator /
  • Administrator
  • SENIOR ASCENDANT
  • *****
  • Posts: 10715
  • Karma: +717/-4880
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #188 on: October 18, 2013, 08:03:59 PM »
I forget exactly which online interview it was in, but in one of the online interviews that was posted after the film opened Tim Burton talked about how Roger's apology was cut and why. (Seth Grahame-Smith may have also brought it up.)

I'm pretty sure that link to the SGS video interview is the one here:
...Seth Grahame-Smith discusses some specifics of the scenes that didn't make it into the film:

Seth Grahame Smith Talks DARK SHADOWS, the BEETLEJUICE Sequel, Tim Burton’s NIGHT OF THE LIVING, UNHOLY NIGHT, and More
SGS speaks about Tim Burton and Chris Lebenzon cutting the Roger/David good-bye scene (4:29 to 6:39).  It's around halfway down Collider's page.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #189 on: October 18, 2013, 09:37:48 PM »
Thanks so much, Midnite, for tracking that down - it's definitely the SGS interview I was thinking of.  [hall2_smiley]

If only we might have gotten that extended cut that SGS spoke of. But no. And actually, releases of extended cuts seem to have little to no correlation to how well a film is received by either critics or at the box office because, as I've lamented a few times over the past year, during this past year alone some films that made far less money at the box office and received reviews that would have made some of the DS film's worst look like glowing accolades had extended/director's cuts released on DVD/Blu-ray. Though if I'm remembering correctly, none of them were films that were made/released by WB. And as we know only too well, WB isn't exactly in a mood to release DS-related extended/director's cuts on DVD/Blu-ray, now are they!  [hall2_rolleyes]

Actually, it's a terrible shame that so little of what was cut was released on the Blu-ray. But then, given WB's basic uh, stinginess (to put it politely), I suppose we should be grateful for what we did get...

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2013, 12:58:04 AM »
Something that we've never mentioned on the forum, but considering today's installment of the slideshow features David sobbing after Roger leaves him, and that the entire sequence really belongs to David/Gully McGrath, it's definitely worth noting that as part of the 2013 Young Artist Awards, and in the category of Best Performance in a Feature Film - Supporting Young Actor, Gully McGrath was nominated, not for his role as Tad Lincoln in Lincoln, as some might have expected, but for his role as David in the Depp/DS film.  [hall2_wink]

Of course, that only serves to make it even more upsetting that most of his work as David seems to have ended up on the cutting room floor - and it ended up being cut - well, at least most of David scenes with Barnabas ended up being cut really early in the editing process because I recall Seth Grahame-Smith commenting that much of the material between David and Barnabas was cut before SGS even saw one of the first rough cuts of the film.

Offline Josette

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • NEW ASCENDANT
  • ******
  • Posts: 4598
  • Karma: +75/-3055
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #191 on: October 19, 2013, 06:50:47 AM »
MB and Midnite - thanks for the answer and the link to the interview - very interesting!!
Josette

Offline michael c

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 3434
  • Karma: +653/-1184
  • Gender: Male
  • mr.collins i'm fed up with this nonsense!
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #192 on: October 19, 2013, 11:49:24 AM »
as the film ended up it didn't make much difference to the overall narrative that Roger departed when he did...

immediately afterwards it careens towards it's explosive and overstuffed climactic scenes and Roger's presence or lack thereof really wouldn't have made much of a difference.

JLM's roger certainly seemed like a louche creep but as the film was edited it didn't really explain why Barnabas despised him so much. it's not like he didn't have bigger fish to fry. [hall_huh]

still his performance was a lot of fun and definitely added to the film's trippy atmosphere.
sleep 'til noon and your punishment shall be the dregs of the coffeepot.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

  • Systems Manager /
  • Administrator
  • NEW SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • *****
  • Posts: 16027
  • Karma: +205/-12183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #193 on: October 19, 2013, 05:16:16 PM »
As the film plays, the audience never got to see all the cut scenes between Barnabas and David - most of their relationship is simply implied by what others say in their scenes when referring to it (which is a real shame - but we've gone into that recently, so I won't rehash). And the only thing that the audience is aware that Barnabas witnessed with regard to Roger and David was Roger having David guard the room while Roger made out with the coat check girl - Barnabas didn't even see Roger going through the guests' coats. Yet in the scene in which Barnabas gives Roger the choice, Barnabas specifically speaks of Roger's "thieving, selfish life." That certainly indicates that somehow Barnabas is aware of much more than the audience is aware he is, and it would seem to imply that there may have been a cut scene in which at least some of the guests discovered that things had been stolen from them and somehow Barnabas was aware of it and perhaps even took care of it with a bit of his hypnotic powers. And there's also how Barnabas says he's going to give Roger a choice despite the fact that he finds doing so "so repellent that it sickens" him to his "very core." That brings to mind that quite possibly the spoiler that said that in the film Barnabas plans to kill Roger but someone talks him out of it may have indeed been real. Perhaps Barnabas expressed his outrage over Roger to Elizabeth, and while doing so he threatened to kill Roger, but Elizabeth talked him out of it, and instead it was decided to give Roger the choice.

Unfortunately, though, there's nothing more substantial than a few inklings in the film that any of that might be possible, though I do suppose the inklings are there. But sadly, as things stand in the film, it's completely up to the audience to piece the depths of the Barnabas/David and Barnabas/Roger relationships together by simply using dialogue and situations that mostly hint at them rather than expressly describe them.

Offline Gothick

  • FULL ASCENDANT
  • ********
  • Posts: 6608
  • Karma: +124/-2883
  • Gender: Male
  • Somebody book me a suite at Wyndcliffe, NOW!
    • View Profile
Re: And Yet Another New Slideshow
« Reply #194 on: October 19, 2013, 06:13:30 PM »
Today's image and caption are hysterical.  I'm imagining Grayson's Julia playing this scene.  And Julia's role in the OS was really to sort of let the perennially clueless Barn know when, metaphorically, his own ass was on fire... a role that shifts to Liz in Depp Shadows.

G.