And Yet Another New Slideshow

[michael c]

remember all the wild speculation when the clip of Roger and an unidentifiable blond lady locking lips made the trailer???


was it Angelique? Vicki? or even the rather grotesque suggestion that maybe it was Liz???


but it just ended up being an extra.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Yes, the sequence as it was depicted in the trailer definitely brought up a lot of interesting speculation - though some character that we had as yet not learned about was also in the mix with Vicki, Angelique, and Liz.    But no one had any idea that the entire scene would show Roger in such an unflattering light. And the worst of that - yes, even beyond Roger robbing the guests - was what he said when questioned about David:

1972 - Roger (in response to a question about who David is):
'I have no idea. I've never seen him before.'

Sure, Roger certainly showed annoyance towards David in earlier parts of the film, which is in line with how much of the film's plot is inspired by many aspects of the pre-Barn eps of the daytime series. But to completely deny him. Well, that goes even beyond how badly the daytime Roger treated David during those pre-Barn eps. Though, of course, the real worst is yet to come when the film's Roger makes his ultimate decision of what is more important to him...

[Gothick]

Great capture today, MB--Pfeiffer with KLS, Lara and David. 

I don't remember Carolyn's line at all.  But then, I only saw it one time, and I didn't even realize when I was watching that Roger was going through the guests' coats to try and rip off their wallets, etc. before getting down to biz with Miss Check-girl.

Roger's role was so heavily cut down that I personally find it difficult to evaluate much about the character as shown.  He was certainly meant to be a sleazeball--that does come through with crystalline clarity.

But then, I'm so far from being an authority on the Burton-Depp production that even to comment may seem laughable...

G.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

The best things about today's quote (which is actually Carolyn reciting the opening lyric from Alice Cooper's "The Ballard of Dwight Fry") and capture with Elizabeth's surprised look -

1972 - Carolyn (off screen and on stage): '“Mommy,
where's Daddy? He's been gone for so long. Is he ever
coming home?”'

- are the looks Carolyn and Elizabeth exchange afterward:

If looks could kill, Carolyn would have surely been struck dead by Elizabeth's gaze! About the only clue we get to the likelihood that there's more to Carolyn's father's absence than meets the eye. (And wouldn't it be interesting if Elizabeth's husband and Roger's wife were somehow connected - but we may never know...)

[Uncle Roger]

A connection between Laura and Mr. Stoddard? What an interesting idea, MB. That could make for some very interesting fan fiction!

[michael c]

pfieffer really looks gorgeous in this scene...


I was indifferent and even skeptical of her casting initially but she ended up being one of the best things in the movie.

[michael c]

they really went through a lot of trouble and expense for Vicki's escape from windcliff sequence. it was obviously a location shoot that likely took several days. remember those were among the first images we saw from the film?


the resulting footage was only used for a few seconds in a flashback.

[Gothick]

I don't know if anybody will see or know the answer to this question, but in the image that was posted yesterday, was that supposed to be Josette's ghost in the padded cell at Windcliff with child Magtoria?

G.

[michael c]

yes...


josette's ghost had been visiting 'magtoria' since childhood. it is the reason her parents had her sent to windcliff in the first place. since they could not see josette they thought 'magtoria' disturbed and put her away...


seems like something of an overreach(permanently institutionalizing a child and in a padded isolation cell no less)but that's what the good mr. and mrs. evans decided was best.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

they really went through a lot of trouble and expense for Vicki's escape from windcliff sequence. it was obviously a location shoot that likely took several days. remember those were among the first images we saw from the film?


the resulting footage was only used for a few seconds in a flashback.

The sequence involving Vicki's escape from Windcliff was shot at Beckenham Place Park on the evening of July 26, 2011 between the hours of dusk and 2am - or so a few tweets made that day and some subsequent articles posted on the Internet told us. However, the supposed involvement of the dogs (that was mentioned by the SimonandLiz Hayhurst Consultancy, who were granted official access to the location - and who probably provided the best photos of the shoot) never did make it into the film. Presumably as guard dogs at Windcliff they would have chased Vicki as she made her escape across the grounds. But we may never know. (And it's interesting how dogs seem to be cut out of DS films because Gerard's dogs had their entire parts cut from NoDS. Though at least in the case of Scene #106(Tracy goes to the stables to ride and encounters Gerard and the dogs) DC supposedly didn't think the dogs acted vicious enough.)

And one other thing that's interesting about the the shooting at Beckenham Place Park was that there was supposedly a second day of shooting involving Helena Bonham Carter. If so, that stuff wouldn't seem to have appeared in the film either. But wouldn't it have been interesting if Julia had been at Windcliff at some point during Maggie's stay - though whether Julia would have been aware of Maggie as a patient there is anyone's guess...

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I don't know if anybody will see or know the answer to this question, but in the image that was posted yesterday, was that supposed to be Josette's ghost in the padded cell at Windcliff with child Magtoria?

Yes, as michael c pointed out, it's well established in Vicki's dream and in flashbacks that Josette's ghost had been a part of Vicki/Maggie's life since childhood. In addition to being in her cell with her, we saw Josette with Maggie in her bedroom:

And we'll be seeing Josette in tomorrow's capture as she is instrumental in Maggie making a very important decision. 

[dom]

I loved this connection between the characters. I thought it was brilliant. One of the many brilliancies connected with this film version as opposed to the original series. If only...

[Mysterious Benefactor]

josette's ghost had been visiting 'magtoria' since childhood. it is the reason her parents had her sent to windcliff in the first place. since they could not see josette they thought 'magtoria' disturbed and put her away...


seems like something of an overreach(permanently institutionalizing a child and in a padded isolation cell no less)but that's what the good mr. and mrs. evans decided was best.

I don't know if the padded cell and shock treatments () were so much her parents ideas as they were the hospital's decisions. And I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think anyone could be committed without a doctor's say so, so chances are her parents had Maggie examined and it was decided by the doctor or mutually between the doctor and her parents that she should be committed.

But as for the extremeness of the padded cell and the shock treatments, sadly it seems such practices were certainly in existence in the '50s and '60s, and even beyond. There were broad sweeping investigations of many institutions where such practices and those much worse took place with the end result being that such places were shut down for ineffective treatment and excessive cruelty. The film is probably strongly implying that Windcliff was such a place.

[michael c]

over time I've come to forgive most of the film's flaws in logic and continuity...


but I can never get past the storytelling sloppiness of today's image. "Maggie Evans", seen here being prompted Josette's ghost, applies for a governess position for a "prominent Maine family". en route to the prearranged interview changes her name on the fly to "Victoria Winters" and then arrives to meet a group of people expecting a girl named Victoria Winters.

this is never explained and a needless bit of illogic. if they knew they wanted to go with this angle they could have had her change her name at an earlier point.

[Gothick]

I don't remember this image at all from this part of the movie (which, again, I saw once, at home on DVD, so I may have happened to look away or grab another snack at some moment).

I keep thinking that this particular story idea must have been inspired by the Lady Kitty storyline in the original series, but it plays out so differently, I wonder if that's the case.

I frankly had difficulty connecting with or knowing how to evaluate this whole sequence of Magtoria speaking about her early life with the montage going on.  There was, for me, a twee, brittle, uncomfortably fancy-pants (given the serious subject matter of a young girl in the 1950s being institutionalized by her parents) element in how it was all presented visually that made me wonder if Burton was deliberately parodying how mental illness is traditionally presented in certain films.

G.