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Today marks the debut of yet another new slideshow: the 2012 DS Film Slideshow - and chances are pretty good that you've already noticed it on the BoardIndex page of the forum. [santa_smiley] During this entire year we'll be featuring quotes (including several from the deleted scenes of the film because it's quite easy to see exactly where those scenes that are provided on the Blu-ray release of the film would have fit into the film), with Midnite and myself alternating months. I'm up for January - Midnite's selections will begin in February.
And to make room for this new slideshow on the BoardIndex, you may have already noticed that the Movies Quotes Slideshow can now be found atop the current Calendar Events / Announcements board. The Quotes Slideshow for the original DS is still atop Page 1 of the Robservations board. And the Episode Captions Slideshow is still atop all the other pages of the Robservations board. And the '91 DS Series Slideshow is still here atop the Current Talk board.
So, throughout the year enjoy with us many of the great moments from the 2012 DS Film. [santa_smiley]
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MB -- loving the movie captures and quotes on the main page ushering in the new year!
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[pointing-up] I had a feeling you would, Nicky. [santa_wink]
Though interestingly today's capture/quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0104DS2012_0.jpg)
1760 - Barnabas Voiceover: 'When I was but a boy, my father
took us to the New World to expand the Collins family empire.'
- only serves to remind me of how things were somehow changed after the WB's May 18, 2011 Press Release for the film came out. As we'll recall, there was mention in it of the Collinses setting sail in 1752 from Liverpool, England to start a new life in America - but not even an ocean away was enough to escape the mysterious curse that plagued their family. Yet there's no mention in the film's actual prologue of them trying to escape any sort of curse. The only reference to curses comes from Barnabas when he first meets Liz in 1972 - and that seems to play as if it's mostly about Barnabas' curse and how after being turned into a vampire he went around insisting a witch had done it to him (which isn't exactly something he should have freely admitted to anyone). And of course, in the actual film the year they set sail is 1760, not 1752 - and the year in which Barnabas is turned ends up being 1776, not 1772. And something I noticed the other day when I went over to IMDb to check the cast list is that a listing for Angelique's mother is now gone (though to me the voice of the woman reprimanding the young Angelique not to stare at young Barnabas sounds a bit like Eva Green - but who knows?) - but other supposed characters who to my knowledge were never listed before (i.e. Greg Bennett as Chet the Taxidermist, Nick Thomas-Webster as Timothy, etc.) are now there. Even Thomas McDonnel 's name is back even though it was gone for the longest time. But perhaps even more significant is that the credit on IMDb for young Barnabas indicates that he was 9 and played by Vincent Curson Smith - not 6 and played by Justin Tracy, as the actual film indicates. So who the hell knows why years were switched - or what sort of stuff was shot but for whatever reason ended up on the cutting room floor? [santa_undecided]
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With the scene between Barnabas and Angelique in his bedroom in 1795 Ep #368_369 coming up in the WP yesterday and a similar scene having come up in this slideshow yesterday and the day before, it struck me that I like how in the film there is no ambiguity as to what the Barnabas/Angelique relationship was:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0108DS2012_0.jpg)
1776 - Angelique: 'Let me hear you say "I love you, Angelique.
I want you."'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0109DS2012_0.jpg)
1776 - Barnabas: 'Angelique...I am sorry, my dear...but you
would be hearing a lie.'
Apparently Barnabas used Angelique purely for sex and there was nothing beyond that on his part. And while ambiguity in their relationship in the original (and the '91) series probably works better because there's a much larger scope of storytelling available to be able to get into the truth behind all the he said/she said, in the film, with so much other storytelling to deal with and such a limited time to get into it all, it was much better that their relationship was explicitly spelled out. The audience knew without any ambiguity that Angelique believed Barnabas had used her - and that really helps to crystallize Angelique's motive for having turned Barnabas into a vampire because there aren't any openings to theorize that she hadn't been wronged.
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Today's quote from the Depp movie is:
1776 - Barnabas Voiceover: 'Of all the servants I could have spurned, all the hearts I could have broken, I got the one with the secret. I got the witch.'
I think of Depp’s Barnabas and Frid’s Barnabas as being two completely different personalities, but if you adjust the wording to make it more old-fashioned, this sounds like Frid’s Barnabas to me. “Poor, poor me. Just my luck.”
Mostly what I'm thinking about, however, is that Depp’s Barnabas makes it sound like sheer coincidence that he “got the witch”, and I'm not sure that's correct. I don't mean that Angelique put a spell on him; I'm thinking that there was something in his personality that clicked with a witch. I don't get this feeling with the Barnabas and Angelique from the original series.
That's as far as I go with this train of thought. Can anybody take it any further?
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I think that Fridbarn might seem that self-pitying just because we see so much of his life, this being a daily soap opera. If we were followed around with a camera every day, we might have those moments too. If we just dropped in on him occasionally, we might miss those remarks.
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The "I got the witch" quote you chose, MB, is probably my favorite line from the opening narration. Glad you included it in your selection of the 2012 slideshow.
I never quite "got" the previous one about Barn getting into the black arts because he was convinced his parents death wasn't accidental. Why, so they could use the Golden Arches for a laugh? But whatevah.
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Another favorite moment in the 2012 DS. I liked the confidence, sense of purpose and fearlessness Maggie/Vicki exuded with the line: "New York. And it's Victoria."
I wouldn't have taken a ride from that group in the first place, never mind possibly antagonizing them. I liked and rooted for the character from this moment on.
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MB, did you ever read the supposedly spoiler-heavy script "outline" that was "leaked" and then became the object of a spoiler topic here on the boards in 2011? To understate matters, the "outline" described a story that was very different from what was filmed.
I figured for some time that the "outline" was deliberate disinformation, but it occurs to me that it might have referred to an early draft of the screenplay before the Seth person was brought in to "lighten" things up more.
I hadn't even noticed the details you mentioned about the curse, the switching of dates, etc. And that's really quite bizarre abou the IMDB page for the movie.
It would seem that the narrative of the movie's development, editing, promotion, distribution, etc. has quite a few more twists and turns than what actually happens in the story the movie tells!
G.
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I just looked and the earliest post on the spoilers board is one from July 2011. The poster was warned that they had violated board guidelines. I remember another post that had an actual script outline but not sure just now where it would be archived.
It's interesting among the chat 'n' chew to see that a famous vampire author was slated to have a cameo. Wonder if Annie Rice is wandering somewhere in the party sequence?
G.
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I've been logging on here (almost) every day.
I'm enjoying seeing the dialogue between the 'hippie' girl and Victoria.
Patti
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The new month means a new person picking quotes from the film - and of course that person for February is Midnite. Enjoy! [snow_smiley]
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It's really funny how on one of today's slideshows, Mrs. Jason Maguire/Johnson is welcoming Barnabas to the door of Collinwood, while in another, Jackie Earle Willie is welcoming Magtoria.
Great juxtaposition! I love this stuff.
G.
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Yes, I love when things align like that, too. [snow_wink]
And BTW, not that you've probably been thinking I have been because I know you know sometimes it takes me a while to get back to something, but I haven't been ignoring your replies #6 and #7. [snow_smiley] It's just that I want to look up something before I reply, and I just haven't found the time to find it. But hopefully soon. [snow_wink]
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Oh, not a problem at all dear. I don't know about you, but it seems as if this winter has just been hellishly busy, both in the office and in personal life. So I entirely understand.
You and Midnite do so much to keep this place alive and afloat! The fact that you even take time to respond in the threads is awesome.
Appreciatively, G.
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Midnite and I had the hardest time deciding between two screen caps for today's quote. In the end we finally went with the one on the BoardIndex that shows the house. But it would be a shame if the alternative never saw the light of day, so here it is:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0205DS2012_0a.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'Still, not every family has a house like this.
Or a whole town named after them.'
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I'm so glad you got the alternate image and quote on the board, MB! Her expression is priceless.
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One of my most favorite scenes in the film is definitely the dining room scene in which Vicki meets the rest of the household for the first time. Right from the moment Roger walks in, all fidgety flexing fingers, until the very end, the scene is filled with so many fascinating undercurrents that there's so much subtext going on that it would require another entire DS film to explore it all fully. And I'm so happy that Midnite hit on some of the best moments with her quotes - including these so far:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0217DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'You're a liar. I can tell, you know. Just from a
person's face. Yours says: "I might look sweet and innocent,
but I have secrets. Secrets that'll make the hairs on your
arms stand straight up."'
Of course, Julia doesn't know that Vicki is masquerading under an assumed name, not to mention all the other secrets/tragedies in her past (that even the audience isn't privy to yet), but it's amazing that Julia seems to have Vicki's number right from the get-go. It's really too bad that Julia's suspicions weren't picked up at some point later in the film. But then, like I said, material that really needs to be a part of that whole other film.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0218DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'You're the doctor.'
I have to confess that it wasn't until after I saw the film a few times that I noticed the disdainful expression on Vicki's face once she realizes that Julia is the doctor. And, of course, even if others in the audience noticed it upon first viewing, they wouldn't have realized why it's there because at that point the audience has no knowledge of her past as Maggie and being institutionalized for most of her life. It's no wonder doctors wouldn't exactly be her favorite people. And again, it's too bad none of that was explored once the audience is clued in. But then, again, enough material to be another part of that whole other film.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0219DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'Yeah, and you're "the nanny," and she's
"the bitch." Honey, how do you ever expect us girls to
advance if we keep reducing each other to labels?'
I absolutely love the expression on Liz' face after Julia refers to her as "the bitch":
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0219DS2012_0a.jpg)
And I would love to know what it is within the Liz/Julia relationship that prompts the comment. But alas, yet another thing that there wasn't time enough to explore in the existing film. Add it as another part of that whole other film.
And as if all that wasn't interesting enough, we haven't even gotten halfway through all the quotes that will be coming from that scene throughout Midnite's quotes from the rest of this month and into my first six quotes for March. But more on those moments as they come up in the coming days...
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So far so great, Midnite! I was thrilled to finally see a Roger slide and quote. I absolutely love JLMiller's performance in this film. And the Liz, Vicki & Carolyn exchange. I totally missed that in the film, well, I mean that I was never able to decipher the 'living in New York' banter and I saw the film three or four times. And now I realize that I got the intent wrong of this current slide, I thought Julia was referring to herself as 'the bitch'. I'm getting a lot more out of this presentation than just viewing great caps & quotes.
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This is one of my favorite parts of the movie. I saw it eight times and I didn't get that Julia was referring to Elizabeth as the bitch. That throws a whole new angle onto the sequence. I find it quite interesting that Julia and Vicki have sized each other up pretty well. What a shame that these relationships weren't explored further.
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HBC was a hoot as a reboot Julia. At least in this scene.
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I'm a big OS Vicki fan and mostly because of the tender way she handled David during the first year. I loved this scene in the 2012 movie when Vicki says, 'Terrified beyond belief.' I loved the fact that she won him over instantly with the right words at the right time.
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I totally agree.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0221DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - David: 'I was gonna scare you. Were you scared?'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0222DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'Terrified beyond belief.'
And just look at the smile on his face and then hers:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0222DS2012_0a.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0222DS2012_0b.jpg)
And because of all that I wish we had seen more of Vicki and David interacting with each other, particularly when it came to matters of the supernatural in general and his mother in particular (but more on the latter after the slideshow has reached that part of the scene). Just more material introduced in this scene that could easily be a part of that whole other film. [snow_wink]
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This whole scene feels as if it's setting up stuff that NEVER comes into play in the finished film as released. Granted I only saw it once... and I feel as if I missed out a lot of the nuances in this scene... just as was the case with those who saw it more often.
I guess this is the one extended time we spend with the characters where BarnaDepp is absent. Once BarnaDepp shows up, it's all about him and Angelique, with Liz stepping into Julia's role in the original show as Barn's ally and defender.
G.
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I've said this before, but I really wish we'd gotten some sort of commentary track on the DVD/Blu-ray. Sometimes they're not even worth the time spent listening to them, but other times they will go into things like why certain scenes, even though they may have been ones that were really liked by the director/producer(s), got cut. And I still suspect that they're are a lot of scenes in the script that were shot but never made it into the finished film - mainly because Seth Grahame-Smith himself said that enough material for a whole other film (no doubt the mythical whole other film that I brought up a few posts ago [snow_wink]) ended up being cut because when the film was first put together it ran so long. And we also know from Grahame-Smith that the actors who had a good deal of their parts cut were Jonny Lee Miller, Helena Bonham Carter and Chloe Moretz. And barely any of their cut material even made it to the deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, which is a shame. Though as I said when I announced this slideshow, quotes from the deleted scenes that actually are included will show up in the slideshow in their proper place in the film. (For instance, scenes #59 and #61 will show up in May - and scene #108, which actually does pick up somewhat with what was laid down in the dining room scene's sequence between Julia and Vicki, will show up at the end of August and the beginning of September.) Unfortunately, it's quite often the case that a scene or scenes are cut because of the perception that they slow down the momentum of the film. And I'm guessing if that was the case with this film, the momentum of the film was considered to be squarely on Barnabas' shoulders and his story.
As for people in the audience not necessarily picking up on everything that may have been set up in certain scenes, well, the fault of that lies mostly with the audience members themselves and not the film itself because all the set ups and subtexts are there in the scenes. When it comes to me, I know it's definitely my own fault for originally having missed things like Vicki's facial expression when she realizes Julia is the doctor. And the reason it's my own fault is that both times I saw the film in a theater, right after Julia delivered her line about Vicki having secrets, I turned to the person sitting next to me to say how much I loved those lines. I never even saw Vicki's face until I watched the film at home and alone on Blu-ray. And I'm pretty sure that I've already mentioned elsewhere that there are also other things that I didn't notice until I watched on Blu-ray. But in my defense I have to say that the IMAX screen was so big that at times it was often hard to take everything in - especially if there were multiple characters in a scene and on screen. Though one of the things I definitely caught in the theaters was Liz' expression after Julia refers to her as a bitch. Her expression is priceless - as are several other expressions Liz has in the scene at other moments. And those will certainly be gotten into as their places in the slideshow come up. [snow_wink]
Also, I thought that swapping bits of Julia and adding them to Liz was a brilliant choice for the film. However discussing that here is really out of scope for this particular topic (at least at this point) because we'd like to keep the discussions here focused more on the quotes from the film that are coming up in the slideshow. The changes to Liz and Julia are broader discussions that are better suited for the film's current main topic, so that's why two posts originally made here in this topic have been moved to that topic (starting here:Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
). [snow_smiley]
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I think David (sorry can't recall the boy's name--Gulliver something) also got masses cut because I recall one of the writers or producers saying that an entire storyline between Barnabas and David was cut out of the final release print.
Would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall during and immediately after the screening of the cut Burton delivered to the studio suits, wouldn't it?
G.
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this introductory dining room scene is one of my favorite in the film. which is interesting since it's before either barnabas or angelique show up...
and i also love that julia has the absolute nerve to call the woman who's house she's been living in(no doubt free of charge and amply supplied with booze)a "bitch". i agree the look on liz's face was priceless. i liked liz's ensemble and hairdo alot in this scene as well. very "regal".
makes one wonder what julia and liz's relationship was really like.
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this introductory dining room scene is one of my favorite in the film. which is interesting since it's before either barnabas or angelique show up...
Well, as I've observed before, it seems very much like DS fans fall into two major categories: those who watch the show mostly for Barnabas, and those who enjoy the show as a whole. And I've never meant to imply that one method of watching is better than the other - it's just the way it seems to be. But for those of us who fall into the latter, this dining room scene is great chiefly because it's dealing with characters that we want to get to know. Though perhaps if you're a mostly Barnabas (and/or Angelique) fan, maybe the scene is boring as hell. I don't know. [snow_undecided]
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Because February has an extra day during Leap Years, Midnite designated that during non-Leap Years today's capture/quote should fall on the 28th, but during Leap Years it would actually appear on the 29th preceded by a different capture/quote on the 28th. But considering that we won't see another Leap Year until 2016, here's what we have to look forward to:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0a.jpg)
1972 - Elizabeth: 'Carolyn, go to your room.'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Carolyn: 'Everybody in this house tiptoes around him,
but no one cares how I feel!'
And the real reason why I'm sharing that now is because I want to talk about Elizabeth's facial expression after she orders Carolyn to her room, yet Carolyn hasn't budged. I love it!
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0aa.jpg)
I also suspect that there's more to Carolyn's outburst than mere childish rebellion and more than anything having to do with Carolyn's own secret. (Think possibly more along the lines of Carolyn's apparently absent father (which is very briefly touched on in the film) and what we were told about in Liz' character descriptions but was nowhere to be heard in the film). But if that is the case, apparently it's more stuff that could be dealt with in the whole other film I keep mentioning.
And speaking of Carolyn's outburst, I have to say that I love Julia's three-pronged reaction to it: first, it's like, "Hmm, wow" - then it's like "Oh my God, how will Liz react?" - but then it's like "No, don't look at Liz. Avert your eyes and look down at the table," which is exactly what she quickly does:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0b1.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0b2.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0228DS2012_0b3.jpg)
The whole sequence, which lasts only a few seconds, is nonetheless priceless! [snow_cheesy] And one also wonders if Julia's quick aversion of her eyes has anything to do with why Julia made her "bitch" remark? Yet more undercurrent/subtext that could be dealt with in that whole other film. [snow_wink]
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MB, these captures are a hoot! I'm enjoying this more than I did actually watching the movie. And you're achieving what I had thought was completely impossible--making me want to sit through the movie again! Although I still cringe at the thought of having to sit through a lot of it anytime soon.
HBC is such a hoot. I wish more of her deleted scenes had been released.
I don't remember anything being said, anywhere, about the Depp Shadows' Elizabeth's husband. Can you refresh my memory?
G.
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I know this is beyond the realm of trivia, but can anyone tell me what the food item is suppsed to be that's huddled on Julia's plate? The only thing that comes to mind is those melon balls that Seventies hostesses used sometimes to soak in champagne or something.
G.
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The sequence is also interesting in how it presents David. During Vicki's interview with Elizabeth and the scene with Carolyn, David is painted as a "looney". But the one prank that we actually see him play is quite benign. The kid is sad, neglected and lonely but far from the psychopath in training that earlier incarnations of David have been.
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The whole Carolyn 'thang' was lost on me in this scene but the captures are making things a bit clearer. I was notified today that my best girlfriend in California sent me the DVD. I'm thrilled!
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I'm so excited for you, dom! [snow_happy] And it's always nice to have a generous friend. [snow_smiley]
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I'm enjoying this more than I did actually watching the movie. And you're achieving what I had thought was completely impossible--making me want to sit through the movie again!
That is great to read. Our hope for this slideshow has been that with Midnite and I sharing some of our favorite moments in the film, it might motivate people to give the film a deeper look and a better understanding of why we like it. If we achieve that in even one person, our efforts will be well worth it. [snow_smiley]
HBC is such a hoot. I wish more of her deleted scenes had been released.
If only. But who knows what might happen some day down the road...
I don't remember anything being said, anywhere, about the Depp Shadows' Elizabeth's husband. Can you refresh my memory?
Well, no, so far as I know there wasn't any mention of Liz' husband in anything related to the film. I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused. What I meant with regard to him is that at the party when Carolyn recites the intro to Alice Cooper's "Ballard of Dwight Fry" that deals with a child asking its mother where its father is, that definitely strikes a cord with Liz - and one can tell that Carolyn does it with the intention of getting a reaction from Liz. But when it comes to what was written in Liz' character description, it said that she hadn't left Collinwood for 10 years. Yet that exchange of looks at the party is all we get so far as referencing Mr. Stoddard's absence goes - and the part about Liz not leaving Collinwood isn't referenced at all. Though both are things that would have an effect on Carolyn and her behavior.
I know this is beyond the realm of trivia, but can anyone tell me what the food item is suppsed to be that's huddled on Julia's plate? The only thing that comes to mind is those melon balls that Seventies hostesses used sometimes to soak in champagne or something.
I believe what's on the serving platter and in people's plates are the vegetable for their meal. It looks like they're eating unpeeled new potatoes (which is what the round things are) and carrots:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/plate.jpg)
Though as for the other serving in their plates and on the platter, it looks like it might be greenish and leafy, but I can't really tell with any certainty what it is. Perhaps some sort of cabbage thing. [snow_undecided]
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The sequence is also interesting in how it presents David. During Vicki's interview with Elizabeth and the scene with Carolyn, David is painted as a "looney". But the one prank that we actually see him play is quite benign. The kid is sad, neglected and lonely but far from the psychopath in training that earlier incarnations of David have been.
Very true. And we'll be dealing with a lot of that within the slideshow very shortly. [snow_smiley]
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It really looks as if Julia's having a liquid dinner...
You're really making me regret that the HBC Julia wound up being barely above a cameo appearance here.
G.
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there were certain things that appeared in prerelease material that ended up having absolutely nothing to do with what ended up being in the actual film...
one being this thing about liz being "reclusive" or not having "left collinwood in ten years". nothing that actually took place within the narrative even hinted at that.
we clearly see that "angie" and liz know each other when she comes to collinwood after barnabas' release. and there are multiple shots of liz in collinsport and at the cannery without the slightest bit of exposition of it being unusual for her to leave the estate.
as the story ended up playing out it would have served no purpose for liz to be this recluse so somewhere along the lines this was taken out of the scripts entirely.
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It really looks as if Julia's having a liquid dinner...
Yes indeed! I don't think Julia even touches her food. It's a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other! [snow_cheesy]
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there were certain things that appeared in prerelease material that ended up having absolutely nothing to do with what ended up being in the actual film...
one being this thing about liz being "reclusive" or not having "left collinwood in ten years". nothing that actually took place within the narrative even hinted at that.
...
... so somewhere along the lines this was taken out of the scripts entirely.
Yes, that's quite possible, similar to how the years for the prologue as it takes place in the film were completely changed from what we were told in the WB May 2011 Press Release.
Though there could be a slight possibility that any and all hints to Liz' secret (because, remember, all the characters were supposed to have secrets) ended up on the cutting room floor for one reason or another. In particular there may have been scenes before Barnabas' arrival or soon after his arrival that dealt with much of it before Barnabas' plan to restore the family's fortunes was executed. Though, of course, probably one of the only ways we'll ever really know is if one day we get to read the script.
And speaking of scenes that may have ended up on the cutting room floor, though storylinewise it may not seem so, there is something that leads me to believe that quite possibly Vicki and Barnabas may not have arrived at Collinwood on the same day, or at least what appears to be the same day as the film would seem to imply. But more on that soon after next month's quotes/captures begin. Though the eagle-eyed among us may spot some of the evidence before this month ends.
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indeed there is a huge continuity gaffe with vicki and barnabas arriving at collinsport on the same day. a scene, or scenes, appear to be missing and as you suggest may have ended up on the cutting room floor...
in the scene under discussion here david comes down to dinner in his pajamas. implying the family dines quite late. carolyn is sent to her room. and the next scene is vicki, in her nightgown, unpacking her suitcase before receiving the "he's coming" visitation from josette and being lead through what seems like a house at rest. all of this would imply it's quite late in the evening at this point...
then we cut to barnabas' release...and his scene in collinsport implies it's early evening. more so when he arrives at collinwood carolyn and david are dressed and downstairs, liz is wearing different clothes, and it appears to be an entirely different night.
granted in a fantastical scenario such as this one can't take things too literally but it's a big error in continuity. [snow_rolleyes]
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I thought Liz's secret macrame cupboard was one hell of a secret. AND a clear nod to the fact that somebody high up in the production unit reads these boards and knows about our secret Dutch macrame fetish thang...
G.
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Good, lord. I just finished watching and typing my thoughts on OS episode #411. This is the episode we see Barnabas with blood on his mouth, chin, neck and shirt. It's quite a jolting sight. And then I go to the board index page and see an unexpected new slide of Depp as Barn with blood on his face and clothes. An eerie coincidence.
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It's purely coincidental, but I love how today's capture/caption of Willie offering his flask of liquor to Barnabas happens to fall on St. Patrick's Day, a day that's pretty much synonymous with drinking. (http://www.dsboards.com/41987961.gif) [drunk22] (http://www.dsboards.com/41987961.gif)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0317DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Willie: 'Well, here's all you need to know.'
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In relation to today's capture/quote from the film showing Barnabas discovering Elizabeth's macrame behind a hidden door, I absolutely love the look Elizabeth gives him after he tells her it's a "disgraceful misuse" of the room!
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0408DS2012_0a.jpg)
It's like "I don't give a shit what you think!" [easter_cheesy] But then, it's not like at that point she even knows who he is, so it's not like she's going to respond politely after Barnabas insults her, especially when she's also still highly suspicious of him.
I thought Liz's secret macrame cupboard was one hell of a secret. AND a clear nod to the fact that somebody high up in the production unit reads these boards and knows about our secret Dutch macrame fetish thang...
I wanted to wait until the slideshow reached the macrame sequence before getting back to this. And it is certainly interesting that some of things that have gone on on the forum did somehow make their way into the film in one fashion or another - particularly some things from the Games boards. But who knows if someone connected to the film reads the forum or not? [easter_undecided] Maybe it's simply a case that some members here and at least one person with enough pull on the film share the same and often twisted sensibility when it comes to DS. [easter_grin]
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1972 - Barnabas: 'A vampire, madam. Yes. And most regrettably so. But more importantly, I am a Collins, and I give you my word of honor-neither you nor any under this roof need fear my cursed nature.'
And thus the movie leapfrogs over the whole business of Barnabas kidnapping Maggie and threatening David, and the Collins Family turns into the Addams Family (well, maybe). If Barnabas (either Frid’s Barnabas or Depp’s Barnabas) had spouted that quote to Joan Bennett's Elizabeth, how would she have responded?
I like the relationship between Barnabas and Elizabeth in the movie - but it's definitely different from the relationship in the original series, which I also liked.
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For me the relationship between Barnabas and Elizabeth is one of the best things about the film. And given that apparently from the get-go the film's Barnabas never hid the fact that he was a vampire, for him it seems to make sense that he wouldn't hide that fact from Elizabeth after he's released into 1972. I mean, he didn't even hide from the children that he's the same Barnabas as in the portrait - though they didn't really believe him and were more willing to believe he was spaced out on something. At least that was Carolyn's reaction. David, on the other hand, seemed to take an instant liking to him.
And as for how the original series' Elizabeth might have reacted had Barnabas told her soon after meeting her that he was a vampire, well, we'll never really know. Though when it sunk in, initially at least, I strongly suspect she would have reacted the same way that the film's Elizabeth does: complete shock. One clue beyond that, though, could be the fact that one way in which both women are alike is that they're both fiercely loyal to family and extremely mindful of family honor. But something to keep in mind that makes them very different is that the original series' Elizabeth and the film's Elizabeth find themselves in extremely different financial situations. But I'd rather not get into that until after it's shortly dealt with in the slideshow.
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We got the Barn & Liz original relationship in house of Dark Shadows. I think the secret would have bogged down the film and rendered the Collins family kind of useless (as they practically were anyway, not to mention Julia) if the theme were still centered around Barn & Ange.
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The fact that Barnabas didn't have to lie to Elizabeth meant that one dimension of his character was removed, or at least downplayed - a dimension that was very important to many of the people who loved the original series. This dimension didn't matter so much to me, but I don't know how many times I have read that there were gay people who identified with Barnabas because he too had a secret that must not be revealed. (I hesitate to talk about other people's experience, but I trust I'll be corrected if I've misrepresented it.)
I keep thinking about how Johnny Depp loved Dark Shadows as a child, and I think about how he apparently loved it for aspects that were not the most important aspects of it to so many other people. The original Dark Shadows series is a very big tent - to borrow a phrase from politics - and I suppose it can't help but be shrunk here and there in its succeeding incarnations.
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Perhaps they chose to take a page from hoDS wherein the lie was barely introduced at all and it's not played up anywhere to the extent it is in the original series. Though by virtue of the fact that with a soap there's a huge luxury of time, but with a film there's so little time to get everything in, some things simply have to be sacrificed, and apparently the lie has basically been one of them.
I can only speak for myself in that it's much more important to me that in some way Barnabas express his guilt and revulsion at what becoming a vampire has done to him and caused him to do - and that is certainly touched upon on multiple occasions by Depp's Barnabas.
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On the Main Page, today's montage is a pic of JD/Barn telling Elizabeth that this was his particular favorite 'secret' passage.
LOVE IT!!! Loved the scene in the movie and love love seeing it here!!
Thanks wonderful Mods!!
Patti
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Elizabeth: "He means it seems like two centuries".
Two questions: first, were there pics of athletes yet on Wheaties cereal? (Actually, when was Wheaties cereal released?)
Second, what room are the actor's in; specifically, it looks like a life-sized painting behind Elizabeth; I remember in the early-mid '80s, there were wall paper designed to look like life-size settings (forest, beach, etc).
Thanks,
Patti
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Patti,
As to your first question, I think Wheaties Cereal has been around for many years. I believe that there was a former US Olympian named Bob Richards (I think?), who was frequently featured on the front of the cereal box. (Mr. Richards also used to do TV commercials for Wheaties Cereal.)
And, I once heard a story that when a 1950s episode of "The Adventures of Superman" was being filmed, actor George Reeves (as the "Man of Steel") was supposed to break through a fake concrete wall in order to save Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen, but Mr. Reeves, literally, became stuck in the wall and allegedly quipped to his fellow actors: "Well, I guess that Superman forgot to eat his Wheaties today"! [easter_shocked] [easter_grin]
On the second question, I'm not sure what room that was in the film, but it's certainly much bigger than the breakfast room in the original "Dark Shadows." [easter_huh] [easter_wink]
Bob
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have you guys not seen the film yet?
they are in the dining room. in the film it was generally the gathering place for large group scenes featuring most of the characters during breakfast or dinner and there were several important character introductions here.
it was a fabulous set. the walls were covered completely with a painted seascape. sideboards were laden with ancient family silver. all of it suggesting the family in much grander days.
in the film's frequent nods to 1970's kitsch boxes of Wheaties and bottles of mrs. butterworth hung out in this atmosphere of faded baroque grandeur.
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Today introduces the slideshow's first capture/quote from a deleted scene. And I'm actually quite disappointed that the scene wasn't included in the film because I think it illuminates so much about Elizabeth and Julia's relationship. But more on that as the quotes appear...
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I forgot to mention that apparently some part of the end of the just previous dining room scene must have been cut because obviously in the film Barnabas doesn't make any sort of remark at all about the last bit that Julia says he did in her quoted dialogue:
[spoiler]1972 (Deleted) - Julia: 'It all seemed pretty bizarre to me. All that shit about family silverware, horses, feeding the Chevy.'[/spoiler]
Though honestly, I love how the scene ends simply with his quizzical expression:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0505DS2012_0a.jpg)
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Of course, a major reason why this first deleted scene should hold a special place in all our hearts (and another reason why we should be very upset it was cut) is because not only does it feature yet another glimpse of the macrame closet, but throughout it depicts Elizabeth actually doing macrame:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0506DS2012_0a.jpg)
What more could a forum that once saluted "Zen and the Art of Macrame" - as well as the close association macrame has to the male and female orgasm - ask for?! [ecstasy]
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mb where are you getting these images and quotes???
they looks so cool and definitely would have fleshed out the barnabas/julia situation. are they on the blue ray?
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Yes, the scene is one of the deleted scenes on the Blu-ray. And among those scenes it's probably my favorite because it's so rich in character. And more on that shortly...
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It's too bad this scene, and anything else involving Pfeiffer and HBC, hasn't been made more widely available.
I do not mean to be unkind, but ANY scene without Depp and Green in that film is automatically more interesting and nuanced than scenes with one, the other or both of the terror tots--something about them just seemed to push Burton to go not just over the top, but, in the words of the much lamented Ralph Kramden, "To the Moon, Alice!"
G.
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I really might have to upgrade to blueray just to catch these scenes...
g I was just saying the other day that one of my favorite scenes in the film was the introductory dining room scene...before the gruesome twosome even shows up. another would be the "a vampire!" scene with julia and liz in the drawing room. again, sans vampire or witch.
which isn't to say depp and green didn't bring a lot of distinction to their roles. it's just that it all goes into maximum overdrive when they're onscreen. especially together.
for me the essence of the whole thing is this eccentric group of people living in this falling down mansion in maine. not monsters. I could take or leave that element of it or at least appreciate it in some moderation. and when it gets too far out(think late 1968)it starts to derail for me. that's why I found the film's final cacophonous scene("i'm a werewolf...WOOF".)so off putting. for me that's the worst of DS storytelling. not the best.
in terms of the OS i always enjoy the character driven periods and storylines just touched by supernatural elements...a ghost here, a vampire there...rather than having them hit me over the head with a sledgehammer and driving the entire plot into the nonsensical. i appreciate those moments in the film as well. i definitely wanted more of liz, julia, roger and vicki. the above scene typifies that.
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I watched most or all of those deleted scenes on youtube back when the bluray had just come out (the clips were on one of the DS blogs too.) They were great character moments, and I think we needed about another hour of them to justify the explosive finale.
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If you haven't seen the entire deleted scene, it may seem as if Elizabeth's quote for today -
[spoiler]1972 (Deleted) - Elizabeth: 'You know, Julia, sometimes I really loathe you.'[/spoiler]
- is directly related to her quote from yesterday -
[spoiler]1972 (Deleted) - Elizabeth: 'Oh, God, Julia. Can't we ever just have a chat? Does everything have to be analysis?[/spoiler]
- but it actually isn't because some of the scene is skipped in the slideshow (I would have loved to have included it all, but there's only so much room [easter_wink]).
What happens in between is [spoiler]Julia asks Elizabeth if at least she trusts Barnabas. Elizabeth replies that of course she does - why else would she have let Barnabas take David out for a walk at night? To that Julia sarcastically retorts, "Oh, no, you're right. What kind of woman would let their little nephew run off with a stranger unless she was certain it was safe?" - and I love the expression on Julia's face after she asks it:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0508DS2012_0a.jpg)
[/spoiler] And to that Elizabeth delivers today's quote. It's a fascinating exchange and says so much about their relationship. But more on that after tomorrow's quote comes up...
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I am quite curious about this scene, but I just checked Youtube, and there's no sign of it on there. Pity.
G.
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And with today's concluding quote from the scene -
[spoiler]1972 (Deleted) - Julia: 'First true thing you've said all night.[/spoiler]
- obviously Julia reveals that she's not having any of Elizabeth's attempted explanations for Barnabas' odd behavior. But what's also obvious from the scene is that Elizabeth and Julia are friends and the type of friends whose relationship can withstand a bit of prickliness, which is no doubt why Julia refered to Elizabeth as "the bitch" when describing her to Vicki earlier in the film. And no doubt, especially given her "loathe" comment directed at Julia, Elizabeth would say the same of Julia under the right circumstances. [easter_wink] And as I said at the outset when this deleted scene started in the slideshow, I'm really quite disappointed that this scene was cut. It's fantastic on just so many levels. And the fact that it was cut really makes me even more disappointed that we didn't get any sort of commentary from director Burton, or editor Chris Lebenzon, or even any one or some combination of the many producers because any one or more of them might have told us what the reasoning(s) was(were) behind the deleted scenes being cut.
And getting back to something I'd mentioned in one of the spoilered sections from yesterday's post (though which isn't really a spoiler in and of itself) is that it would be very interesting to know if there really was a scene scripted/shot in which Barnabas took David for a walk. The current deleted scene is listed as Scene #59 on the Blu-ray, and the upcoming scene in the slideshow, which is also a deleted scene - and one one which happens to feature Barnabas and David in David's room - is listed as Scene #61, so there is a missing Scene #60. And there is possible photographic evidence for the walking scene because there's a behind the scenes photo that could quite possibly be from the shooting of it:
(http://www.dsboards.com/DeppDS/Barn_Dav_Walk.jpg)
Not only is Gully McGrath wearing the same turtleneck that David is wearing in the dining room scene (a turtleneck he doesn't wear in any of the outdoor beach scenes in the film), but he's also wearing David's coat (a coat he doesn't wear in any of the outdoor beach scenes in the film, though a coat David does indeed wear (with a completely different turtleneck) when they visit the dilapidated Collins Cannery building). So...
(And special thanks must be extended to Midnite for finding that color photo. I mentioned to her yesterday that I was positive I'd recently come across a B&W photo of Depp and McGrath shooting an outdoor scene in which David was wearing the coat, but that for the life of me I couldn't seem to locate it. (I was practically positive that it was in The Visual Companion book, which I looked through recently - but it's not.) So, Midnite went above and beyond by combing through her stuff and the Internet and she came across the color photo, which is even better potential evidence for the walking scene because we can see the color of the turtleneck David is wearing.
Thanks so, so much, Midnite! [easter_smiley])
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Impressive and intriguing. Thanks, Midnite & MB!
Presumably after viewing the cut Depp delivered, the suits mandated cuts to remove material that did not impact directly on the Barnabas/Angelique narrative, because once Barnabas arrives at Collinwood, in the regular release print that's what we get.
Thanks for including these deleted scenes. You already know my thoughts, so I won't repeat them.
G.
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What I'm about to post about doesn't really have anything to do with today's quote specifically - but the bit in Barnabas' quote about how "there was a time long ago when" he "believed..." sort of opens the door to it. But before I get into what I want to post, first let me explain to those who don't own a copy that the film's The Visual Companion book is honestly a treasure trove of very interested things related to the film - and some of those things are detailed storyboards that were created for the film. There are many in the book. And while most are for scenes that we're all familiar with because they're in the film (one from one of the breakfast scenes in the dining room even includes the Wheaties box on the table), there's one from a scene from the prologue that is not:
(http://www.dsboards.com/DeppDS/prologue_storyboard_small.jpg)
(Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/DeppDS/prologue_storyboard_large.jpg) for a 1284X1292 version)
Given it includes Barnabas with two apparently admiring women, presumably it's a scene that was to show off that "inveterate playboy" aspect of Barn's character. Though whether it was Depp's Barn or Thomas McDonell's Barn, who knows? The only thing we can discern (from the larger version) is that Collinwood is still under construction in the background, so the scene would have to have taken place before the scene in 1776 in which we see Depp's Barn admiring the finished house. Though given today's quote in the slideshow -
[spoiler]1972 (Deleted) - Barnabas: You know, there was a time long ago when I believed money made the man. When I believed that it was the answer to all that ailed us. But it is not the size of the house that makes the man great, Master David. It is the people he shares it with. Money will come and go. Family is the only real wealth.'[/spoiler]
- obviously Barn at that point wasn't simply just interested with attracting the attentions of many women, he was also interested in accumulating wealth and a bit obsessed with the size of his, uh, house. [easter_wink]
And BTW, today's is the last quote from this current batch of deleted scenes. The next quote from the next deleted scene featured on the Blu-ray will show up in July. [easter_smiley]
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Presumably after viewing the cut Depp delivered, the suits mandated cuts to remove material that did not impact directly on the Barnabas/Angelique narrative, because once Barnabas arrives at Collinwood, in the regular release print that's what we get.
If we can judge by some of the remarks that Burton made in interviews prior to the release of the film, all through the editing process WB frequently sent him memos about changes they wanted made (though at this point we don't know how much he may have actually changed at their behest). And one thing we also know is that as late as April of 2012 the prologue was still being edited because in an April 6th Wall Street Journal interview, Seth Graham-Smith talks about how he'd just written a new narration for Depp for the prologue.
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I'm sad to say that those who may be hoping that Angie's growling of "Where off Route 9?" (and you know who you are [easter_wink]) will be the next quote/capture in the slideshow will be disappointed because it isn't part of the slideshow. I know - bad MB - how could I have done such thing?! But only a certain amount of footage/time has been mapped out for each month, and quite sadly that line didn't make the cut for what needed to be covered for May. But all is not lost because any fans of that line and its delivery can always revisit this snippet from the film that was posted last June:
[spoiler]http://www.dsboards.com/DeppDS/Route9.swf[/spoiler]
(You may need to right-click on the image and uncheck/check "play" to start it. And you may need to uncheck "play" to stop it.)
[easter_smiley]
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
(slightly pacified by the clip)
(okay, very pacified by the clip)
I want a teeshirt with that line on it. [easter_tongue]
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Trust me - it wasn't easy not to include that line. Not at all! [easter_sad] But of the 17 remaining quotes for May, Angie is featured in 9 of them, so she is well represented. (Only Barnabas, with 10 for May, is more represented - but considering he's around throughout and Angie isn't introduced until halfway through the May quotes, the fact that she gets 9 is honestly more impressive.) And there are some great Angie quotes to come. [easter_wink]
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Fair. But if the "tea with the tuna" line makes the cut, I'll ...
...why, I'll ...
Okay, I won't anything. I think it's too cool what you guys are doing. Love it. [easter_grin]
(Though, to be honest, the "tea with the tuna" line bugs the crap out of me.)
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I couldn't get the box to go from solid to revealing whatever it concealed. I'll try on my office pewter which has Windows. For some reason certain features don't seem to work with Safari...
G.
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Fair. But if the "tea with the tuna" line makes the cut, I'll ...
...why, I'll ...
Okay, I won't anything. ...
(Though, to be honest, the "tea with the tuna" line bugs the crap out of me.)
Hmmm - I don't even remember that line or, obviously, what scene it's from. I suppose it didn't make an impression on me. And I guess all that makes it obvious that it hasn't been picked yet. [easter_wink]
I think it's too cool what you guys are doing. Love it. [easter_grin]
Thanks. It's another one of our labors of love. And about the only drawback to it is how maddening it often is when we have to cut a line we love either because we're limited to only so many quotes per month or because it doesn't quite fit in with the flow we're trying to create for the month. Maybe we should have stretched out the slideshow over two years instead of one! [easter_grin]
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I was able to play that clip you posted just now. I think I missed the point, but then, I always get distracted by how much like Nancy Barrett Eva Green looks as "Angie." I always wonder if that was intentional. Probably not, since I have never seen anyone else comment upon the resemblance, so, like so much else these days, it must all be in my own mind.
I also don't remember the tea with the tuna line.
Fun stuff!
G.
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I can't speak for Midnite, but sometimes when it comes to picking the quotes/captures for the slideshow when it's my month to do so, I know exactly what at least one of them absolutely has to be. And this month's is definitely today's quote/capture because I positively love, Love, LOVE both her line and the expression on her face when Angie replies to Barnabas' question: "Do you know what I would very much like to do with you?"
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0522DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Angie: 'I can only imagine.'
The subtext is just so deep - and, to say the least, so completely different for Barnabas than it is for Angie.
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This scene feels VERY DS to me, especially reminiscent of those many (MANY) Cassandra vs. Barnabas subtext-loaded scenes from 1968. Plus I love Barnabas' smoking jacket, which is damned close to the one Frid wore in 67/68.
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This scene feels VERY DS to me, especially reminiscent of those many (MANY) Cassandra vs. Barnabas subtext-loaded scenes from 1968.
Yes, I totally agree - the exchange between Barn and Angie IS very DS and very reminiscent of the Cass vs. Barn scenes in '68.
Also, I have to say that I love today's capture/quote:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0526DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Angie: 'Poor, sweet Barnabas. Things have changed
while you were taking your little nap. My Angelbay IS
Collinsport now.'
It took me several attempts to get the exact expression on Angie's face that I wanted for the capture to accompany the quote - but it was well worth the effort IMO. [easter_wink]
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Now that today's capture/quote marks the end of the scene, I have to say that it was extremely difficult for me to limit the number of quotes from it because it's definitely one of my favorite Barn/Angie scenes in the film - and not only because of the great dialogue exchanges - but because both Depp and Green milk the dialogue exchanges for all they're worth. Some may say the scene is a bit over the top, but there's no getting around the fact that some of the best Barn/Ang confrontations of the original show are indeed over the top. In fact, there's an operatic quality to many -
[spoiler]Who can ever forget the fantastic scene in Ep #1131 in which to Angelique's claim that she gave Barnabas the gift of immortality, he fires back that she gave him a thousand nights of agony?![/spoiler]
- and that same sort of operatic quality is reflected in this scene as well. And I truly love how the scene ends with Barn cowering from the sunlight and Angie looking down at him and saying, "Welcome back to the shadows, Barnabas Collins. I've missed you," because you know that as much as there is animosity in her towards him, she's also sincere in that she's glad to see him.
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I like the movie more each time I rewatch, and I loved it to begin with. I agree with all you said in the previous post. A lot of the emotional content in the film coincides with much of the emotional content in the show with regards to where we are in the WP. I found it totally fascinating experiencing the film and the show at the same time with many of the same issues being presented and discussed in both versions. I am really loving the Shadows right now.
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I also enjoy it more and more each time I watch it (though I've actually only watched it all the way through on video twice - which is a total of seeing it four times considering I saw it twice in theaters) - and I also seem to see things with repeated viewing that I may not have fully caught the other times. For instance, while I was picking out captures for Midnite's quotes from the current scene in which Barnabas explains his past to Liz, I got an impression from the way Liz speaks to him that I didn't get the other times. Previously I'd seen her as being supportive of what Barnabas had been through and reenforcing that through it all he'd done everything he could to hold everything together. But this last time as I examined the scene closely, I got the feeling that there was also an undertone/subtext of Liz deliberately goading Barnabas to put him into the frame of mind in which he would not only fight for the family against Angie, but perhaps more importantly to her, improve their current financial situation. In others words, she wasn't exactly being completely unselfish in building him up. Her subtle manipulation of Barnabas is an undertone/subtext that adds a layer of complexity that makes the scene really quite interesting.
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Before I get into today's business, a bit of old business that I didn't get to yesterday:
I love the eye roll, the exasperated sigh, and the expression on Carolyn's face after Barnabas has his reaction to seeing The Carpenters performing on the TV:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0609DS2012_0a.jpg)
And honestly, of all the humorous bits in the film, that one with Barn comes across as possibly the most realistic because how else would someone from the 18th century react upon not only seeing TV, but seeing someone who really does appear as if they're inside the TV performing? [ghost_wink]
And while we're on the subject of The Carpenters, today's quote from the Top of the World montage doesn't display in quite the way I would have liked it to because for some odd reason special characters will not display with the routine that displays the quotes, so I wasn't able to include a music note. The way I really wanted the quote to look was like this:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0610DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Carpenters: ♫ 'I'm on the top of the world lookin'
down on creation and the only explanation I can find is the
love that I've found ever since you've been around, your
love's put me at the top of the world.' ♫
But alas...
And while we're on the subject of today's capture/quote, I have to say I just love the contented little smile that suddenly crosses Vicki's face as Barnabas is reading from Love Story. Quite possibly it's our first indication that she really does enjoy spending time with Barnabas. It's a cute moment - and one that I was very happy that Midnite chose for the slideshow.
Also from the montage, I just love Mrs. Johnson suddenly zooming by on a riding lawn mower:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0610DS2012_0a.jpg)
Not to mention Mrs. Johnson and Willie unloading a coffin for Barnabas:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0610DS2012_0b.jpg)
But then, I love everything Mrs. Johnson in the film. She's an absolute hoot and a half! [ghost_cheesy]
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I don't know if anyone else has come across this same problem, but I noticed that when I put together the last batch of captures for the slideshow, several of them came out quite grainy - and I wasn't really sure why that had happened. Well, after doing a bit of research, I discovered that it seems as if some of the latest Windows updates have wreaked havoc with some older versions of Windows image software. Not that Windows would ever intentionally break older versions of its software so that people have to go out and buy the newer versions. No. Never. [ghost_rolleyes] But I decided that instead of doing that I would simply process the images in my Linux image software instead to see if I could correct the original problems - and sure enough, it did. Ordinarily, I would have used Linux anyway because it's no secret that I hate Windows and prefer Linux. But none of my Linux DVD software can get screen caps. So, since I'd already been in Windows to get the captures from the film, I'd also been processing them in Window. But obviously that won't be happening anymore.
But anyway, as an example of how much better things turned out in Linux, here are two examples of some of the recent captures that I've redone:
Windows version:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0612DS2012_0.png.jpg)
Linux version:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0612DS2012_0.jpg)
Windows version:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0614DS2012_0.png.jpg)
Linux version:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0614DS2012_0.jpg)
The redone ones aren't the exact same moments in the film - but close enough. And certainly much better quality (Barnabas doesn't look like he's suffering from a case of Chicken Pox). And truthfully, rather than curse Windows, I should actually be thanking it because I honestly like the redone captures for the 18th and 19th better than the ones I'd done originally. But those will have to wait until their turns in the slideshow. [ghost_wink]
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I love the shocked look on Roger's face in the scene in which he's witnessed Barnabas emerging from the secret opening in the fireplace and stopping to count the coins he's taken from Joshua's secret stash:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0615DS2012_0a.jpg)
Unfortunately there isn't any dialogue in the scene (or singing over it as with the Top of the World montage), so it couldn't be included in the slideshow. But I didn't want the scene to go unaddressed because obviously it's an important part of Roger's story arc and will figure into things that will be upcoming in the slideshow.
And speaking of Roger, and considering that today is Father's Day, what better example of fatherhood could we possibly focus on in celebration of the day but Roger from the Depp/DS film?! He's a perfect specimen! Well, in the DS universe, anyway! [ghost_grin] And here are what I hope are some interesting comments and observations concerning his character:
First up, what's up with Roger's oft repeated nervous tic of flexing the fingers of his left hand? Why so nervous Rog? And why does he fidget with and squeeze that hand (something Burton makes sure is visible in frame) -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0301DS2012_0.jpg)
- when David brings up that his mother can't be dead? Could Roger have actually known more about Laura's fate than we're ever given to believe in the finished film? After all, we have no idea what Roger's secret was supposed to be - well, beyond the fact that he's a sleaze who thinks nothing of stealing people's valuables from their coats - but that's not much of a secret - especially compared to the secrets the other members of the household harbor. So, it would have been very interesting if Roger was hiding some secret in connection to his wife's death - and that's what made him so nervous and fidgety. But who knows if we'll ever know?
And how did Roger ever become a person with such a complete lack of decorum? I mean, who, without any thought whatsoever, snuffs their cigarette out in the paint on the palette of a person who's task it is to help to restore the house you're living in to its former grandeur?
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0610DS2012_0c.jpg)
Way to set a perfect example for David. Not!
But then Roger would definitely seem to think that somehow many of those around him are either insignificant or there to do his bidding. A particularly egregious example of the former would certainly have to be when it comes to how Roger treats his own son - well, except when Roger needs David to guard the door for him while he indulges in two of his seemingly favorite predilections: stealing and sex - two more perfect examples for David. Certainly not! And a good example of the latter is when Roger claps his hands to get the workers restoring the cannery to work faster.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0610DS2012_0d.jpg)
(And we had also been told by a few sources that Roger supposedly treated Willie very badly in the film - though barely anything like that appears in the film as we know it.)
If he wasn't there already, it seems likely that Roger was well on his way to becoming a sociopath. Though, of course, the worst of Roger's faults has to be on display with the decision he ultimately makes regarding David. But I'd much prefer to wait until the slideshow gets to that point in the film before we discuss that.
-
I have to say that since I've been studying the actors' performances and expressions while picking out captures to hopefully best illustrate the quotes Midnite and I are selecting for the slideshow, I've really come to enjoy Helena Bonham Carter's Julia even more than I originally did. Recent examples are definitely the look she gives Barnabas when she tells him it's time she showed him her office (after catching him rambling on about Carolyn's lava lamp looking like a pulsating blood urn):
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0619DS2012_0.jpg)
And then how she takes a proverbial blue pill of the '70s with a glass of scotch whiskey (classic '60s and '70s behavior in films and TV shows):
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0620DS2012_0.jpg)
And then the expression and body language she throws at Barnabas in today's capture when she asks where he was born:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0622DS2012_0.jpg)
It was already clear in deleted scene #59 between Liz and Julia that Julia wasn't buying what Liz was selling when it came to Barnabas - but in this scene (which is the first of its kind to actually be in the film) it's even clearer that Julia isn't swallowing any of the cover story about Barnabas. [ghost_wink]
It's all just so fantastic to watch!
-
MB--even though to put it mildly I wasn't enamoured of HBC's performance in this role, I do admire her artistry as an actress, and these photos, and the snaps you shared from the deleted scene with Pfeiffer, make me realize how briliant her work in the part *could* have been, if certain decisions about the tone & content of the movie had not, apparently, resulted in a lot of her work in it being consigned to the cutting room floor.
Again, there's a sense of incredible potential that, to severely understate, just wasn't fulfilled in the final product. For this viewer, at least.
G.
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I have to respectfully disagree - even though apparently much of her stuff ended up being cut, I still think HBC's performance as Julia was fully realized even as the film stands. Even just taking into consideration what's been covered in the slideshow so far, HBC's fantastic work as Julia is clearly on display in both the dining room scene in which Vicki is first introduced to the family and in the current scene in Julia's lab. As I've been working on the slideshow I've noticed that HBC seemingly steals every scene she's in - even against Michelle Pfeiffer, whose performance is certainly one of the strongest in the film (and when they're together in a scene, it's sublime).
Of course, one thing that probably goes without saying is that HBC's Julia is not quite the same as the Julia most fans eventually came to know as she evolved on the original series. But I would say that she is still fascinating to watch because her characterization is in many ways true to the hard edged Julia as she was first introduced - the Julia who was not simply driven by a desire to get to the bottom of things, but also the Julia who was only too willing to drive Sam and Joe away from Windcliff without much consideration of their feelings. But then inspiration for many of the characters in the film seems to have been taken back to the characters' earliest inceptions, just as much of the film itself seems to have been inspired by the '66 and early '67 storylines of the original DS.
The bottom line is that I've come to discover that as I watch/study the film for the slideshow, I can't take my eyes off of HBC because I'm always wondering what she's going to do next. Hers is definitely a performance that repeated viewings of the film can only make more fascinating. (But then, as others have also said, the entire film seems to become more enjoyable with each repeated viewing.)
-
I agree that after multiple viewings it would definitely be HBC and Michelle Pfeiffer as Julia and Elizabeth that have emerged as favorite performances. I've always been somewhat indifferent to them both as actresses but here they stole the show. great fun.
depp and green were what they were. but their scenes together lacked subtlety. it was all maximum overdrive.
Johnny Lee Miller was fun but underused. after the initial "shock" of the merged character situation Bella grew on me in subsequent viewings as well.
David and Carolyn were too irrelevant to the overall plot to leave much of an impression except Chloe Moretz was rather grating...and don't get me started on her "finale". [ghost_tongue]
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I have to say, that's a GORGEOUS shot of Julia's lab in today's capture. I totally missed that phantasmagoric lampshade to the right side of the image. I do find myself wondering how the family were able to afford some of the more elaborate and expensive decor elements although that lampshade has a very 1960s look to me and could have been derided as "dated" at the time. Hard to say.
Or perhaps Julia paid for the furnishing and fitting-out of her own lab in the mansion...
G.
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I forgot to post yesterday that I've often wondered if Julia's response to Elizabeth's comment -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0704DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Elizabeth: 'He's a Collins and a good man, and these
days, that's a desperately rare combination.'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0705DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'Oh, yes, I almost forgot, the family that can
do no wrong.'
- as well as Elizabeth's comment itself might not refer back to a scene or scenes that weren't included in the film? For instance, Elizabeth's remark could easily refer to some previous scene with or about Roger (the second half of the remark is definitely directed at him). Though it could just as easily be that both don't refer back to anything and are merely there to help to reinforce why Elizabeth is so willing to accept Barnabas into their lives. And I suppose the only way we'll ever know which case is the correct one is if we ever get to see a copy of the script.
And while we're on the subject of this scene, I love that while, initially, Julia is completely off the rails at her discoveries and, of course, calming herself with a drink, Elizabeth just calmly goes about her business at her desk as if having a vampire living with them is just the most natural house guest in the world. A study in contrasts to say the least. [ghost_wink]
-
Other things I love about the current scene are:
The confused expression on Julia's face when Elizabeth first suggests that she would expect Julia to be fascinated by Barnabas and that fact suddenly hits Julia. It's like the levels of just how fascinating he could be had at first never even entered Julia's head:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0707DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'Well, sure. Medically, psychologically and
physically, he's fascinating. Which is exactly why I came to
you instead of the police.'
And of course the sly look Elizabeth gives Julia just before she delivers the lines from today's quote:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0707DS2012_0a.jpg)
But then, as we've said, the interactions between Elizabeth/Michelle Pfeiffer and Julia/Helena Bonham Carter are some of the best things about the film. [ghost_wink]
-
The current capture/quote is the first of 8 from deleted scenes #94 and #95.
-
It's a shame that the current scene in the slideshow ended up getting deleted because, if for nothing else, the far away look in Carolyn's eye at a point when she delivers today's quote would have certainly given more depth to Carolyn's angst and helped to make it a bit more clear that her problem wasn't simply just a bit of teenage rebellion:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0721DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 (Deleted) - Carolyn: 'Look, you seem nice and I know
this should be us having girl talk, but trust me, you don't
understand either.'
But alas...
One thing I also like about the scene is how at the beginning Carolyn attempts to give a sexy wiggle when she tells Vicki that Barnabas has the hots for Vicki "bigtime." [ghost_grin]
-
A moment that I love from the current deleted scene but which is also one that couldn't be included in the slideshow because it doesn't feature any dialogue occurs just before today's capture/quote. It's how after Willie slips Barnabas his liquor flask to hide it from the police (because Willie is driving), Barnabas simply looks at it with disdain before flinging it aside:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0722DS2012_0a.jpg)
And so far as today's capture/quote goes, I absolutely love the nervous aside look Willie gives Barnabas as all the while he's trying not to look nervous while Deputy Hank is explaining about the attacks:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0722DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 (Deleted) - Deputy Hank: 'Been another one of them
multiple homicides. This one up in Arcadia. Just a bunch of
longhairs this time, thank God. Nasty business, though.
Looked like a grizzly been through 'em. Real messy
eater too.'
-
On behalf of my alma mater, the University of Montana, and its ferocious mascot/spokesbear, I will respectfully remind my moderators that the correct spelling of the bear referenced by the Collinsport PD is "grizzly," not "grisly." [ghost_wink]
-
Oops! And what's worse is the line is "Looked like a grizzly been through 'em" - no "bear." Apparently I didn't check the subtitles for that particular line like I normally do. [ghost_embarrassed] I don't know how that happened. But it's been corrected. [ghost_wink] And thanks for pointing out the error because otherwise I may have never noticed it. [ghost_smiley]
(And I do hope your alma mater's mascot/spokesbear will forgive me. [ghost_wink])
-
Hee hee -- I think he'll be okay. [ghost_tongue]
Thank you, MB ... you're the greatest.
-
As regards Chloe's performance as Carolyn, she just seemed to be stoned and bored throughout the entire film (until the ending, obviously). I personally found it very one note. I know others found it fascinating, I am just giving my viewpoint here in the interest of diversity.
I blame the director, not the actress. I haven't seen her other work but have been told she is a very gifted child.
She's so unlike any version of Carolyn Stoddard I have ever seen that I frankly can't even think of the character as "Carolyn." I wish a different name had been used.
G.
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One of the best things about how Barnabas reacts in today's quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0723DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 (Deleted) - Barnabas: 'Perhaps look for a bear. And
then criticize his eating habits.'
- to the unintentional insult Deputy Hank levied at him in yesterday's quote (after all, how could he have known the real culprit, a vampire, was in the car) is the completely deadpan look it prompts as the sole response from Deputy Hank:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0723DS2012_0a.jpg)
[ghost_grin]
-
To me the characterization of Carolyn in the film is very much like the early Carolyn of the '66 eps. Both are very much bored with and resentful of life at Collinwood and want to seek excitement elsewhere. The difference, though, is the '66 Carolyn, being two years older, has ways/opportunities to pursue that excitement, whereas the Carolyn of the film is too young to go out to places like the Blue Whale (and to pursue situations that were too old for her). I honestly suspect that if the original show were to have begun with a 15-year-old rather than a 17-year-old Carolyn, she may have been very similar to the frustrated Carolyn of the film.
Also, the rivalry between Carolyn and David, even though it was all too briefly touched upon in the film during the first dining room scene, is in keeping with their relationship in the early eps. Early David liked nothing better than to embarrass Carolyn and get her into trouble, which the film's David certainly does in that dining room scene - and at times '66 Carolyn would have liked nothing better than to have smacked David into the middle of the next week, something it's easy to imagine the film's Carolyn would have dearly loved to have done, especially considering she called him "a little shit." [ghost_wink]
Plus, the '66 Carolyn often locked horns with Elizabeth - though that aspect of the film's Carolyn and Elizabeth is more spoken about than actually depicted in the film.
-
Yeah, I'm sure you're right, MB. I wasn't think of the character content so much as the performance. She starts out seeming as if she's swallowed a valium the size of the Great Hall and pretty much continues on the same note throughout.
Presumably this is Burton's idea of "frustrated, defiant 14 year old."
Nancy Barrett's early 1966 scenes had such spark, verve, and style. I do remember her describing David as a little monster. Other than that the two characters seem like completely different people. I am happy to agree to disagree.
G.
-
The interesting thing, though, is that Chloe Moretz received several acting nominations for playing Carolyn in the film. Off hand I don't honestly recall how many - but they're all probably listed on IMDb. Though I will certainly concede that, while I enjoyed her work in the film, I would have much preferred to have seen the performances of, say, Michelle Pfeiffer or Helena Bonham Carter recognized. Though realistically they wouldn't have been in some of the same categories as Chloe because she was sometimes nominated in the Younger Actress category...
-
I'm not surprised at all by the noms since "non acting" seems to be the preferred form of "acting" these days."
I feel a rant coming on and it has zilch to do with the film or the show so I'll stop.
cheers, G.
-
"I think acting should look as if we were working a *little* ... See, you mustn't have *any* idea that *anybody* knows the camera's on them at all. You see: it's just life. Well, we all have life, 24, 12 hours a day, and sometimes we want to forget life, you know. And I think it should be a *little* larger than life. A little bit theatrical." Bette Davis
-
I would love to have more of Bette in "real life"--or Joan Bennett, or Grayson Hall. "But the acting is so terrible!" OK, watch something else, mate. It's a free country (well, sort of).
Thanks, dom, Great quote!
G.
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I love the look Barnabas gives Willie after Willie uses the excuse that Barnabas is English to explain away Barnabas' rudeness to Deputy Hank:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0724DS2012_0a.jpg)
For the looks Barnabas and Willie throw at each other alone, it's a shame this scene was cut. Well, that and we missed hearing Gilbert O"Sullivan's big hit "Alone Again (Naturally)" playing on the car radio. If that song wasn't one of the biggest blasts from 1972 (#1 for 6 weeks on both Billboard's Hot 100 Singles and Easy Listening charts - not to mention the 5th most-popular record of the '70s), I don't know what was. [ghost_grin]
It's also interesting that for all the cut scenes, this was the only one with any certainty that I can think of to have a part show up in any of the trailers/TV spots.
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Today's quote is perhaps my favorite line in the entire film. It perfectly encapsulates Barnabas' attempted journey in every version of DS that he appears in:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0726DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'You must have faith, doctor - for if a man
can become a monster, than a monster can become a man.'
And the expression on Depp's face when he delivers it says it all.
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Say what you will about the ending of the current scene in the slideshow, but I absolutely love the look on Julia's face when she's about to:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0728DS2012_0a.jpg)
And the reaction from Barnabas as she does:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0728DS2012_0b.jpg)
And as has been said, if that ending was inspired in any way by anything that's been said on the forum through the years, so much the better! [ghost_cheesy]
-
After I finally saw the movie I figured this was the scene that nobody liked not realizing that it was the final scene and the 'big reveal' that everyone was pissing and moaning about. I didn't particularly care for this 'reveal'.
-
I guess it all depends on how or even if you've ever joked about Julia's desire for Barnabas and how far she might have to go to finally get through to him. If like me and many others in fandom, you've joked about Julia suddenly deciding to just up and do something similar to finally get through to Barnabas, then it's a complete hoot and a half to actually see the act implied on screen. [ghost_cheesy] If not, well, I suppose you could easily have another reaction. [ghost_undecided]
-
Well, you know what a prude I am, MB, lol.
-
Perhaps he should have taken the advice of the late Peter Finch: Close your eyes and think of England.
-
Depp's Eddie Munster makeup and Trask wannabe line delivery ruins every scene he's in for me in this movie. Sorry.
G.
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and it just occurred to me that perhaps Juliana was trying to acquire some BarnaDepp DNA via the most natural means available to her... lol.
G.
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I've been so busy lately that I've missed commenting on a lot of things in the slideshow, and I'll have to go back to do so once I get the chance. But one thing that I don't want to let pass by while we're still in the current scene is that the capture for yesterday's quote was nearly this:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0814DS2012_0a.jpg)
1972 - Angie: 'We're both monsters, Barnabas. Just two big
fish in an itty-bitty pond. Now, we can either fight until one
of us is dead, or we can make ... little fish together.'
I really enjoy whenever Angie/Eva has that snarky look on her face. But in the end Midnite and I decided to go for a more romantic image - particularly because of how Angie is attempting to engage Barn romantically, but he's not having any of it - yet.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0814DS2012_0.jpg)
Also, I just love the following capture. Even though the moment (which occurs between yesterday's and today's capture/quote) isn't a part of the slideshow, I definitely had to share it:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0814DS2012_0b.jpg)
Some women just can't seem to stay away from Barn's crotch. [naughty]
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And as evidenced by yesterday's capture/quote, Barn's crotch wasn't the only crotch of interest in the film:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0822DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'Well, then, I suppose strictly in the name
of her honor, I must now defile your most intimate and
womanly segments.
But then, both Barn's and Angelique's crotches had heavily implied interest in the original series, so it's only right that they should be majorly featured in this film to make sure the points got across for much of today's audience, who, less face it, isn't necessarily as quick to pick up such things if it's simply implied. [ghost_nowink] They need it handed to them directly. [ghost_wink]
-
I somehow missed the phrase "womanly segments" in all my viewings of the movie; that is hiLARious. Thanks MB and Midnite! [ghost_smiley]
-
Yes, that's one of the best parts about that line, and I was so happy to see that Midnite had included it in her quotes for this month. And the choice of the word "defile" is so 18th century!
-
Today's image reminds me of a question whose answer I couldn't figure out from my one viewing of the film.
Magtoria's childhood incarceration at Windcliff Sanitarium has zero to do with Julia, right? The fact that the van says Windcliff is just a nod to fans?
I don't remember any dialogue from the film where Julia or Liz speak of Windcliff, and I'm presuming that in this DS-verse, Julia has no connection with the sanitarium.
Am I right?
G.
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In the film there's no connection between Julia and Windcliff that the audience is made aware of.
And while we're on the subject of today's capture/quote, I set the time period at "195?" because we don't really know when Maggie was sent to Windcliff. She looks like she might be between 6 and 8 when she's sent away, and presumably Maggie/Vicki is 20 or so when she arrives at Collinwood, so some point in the '50s seems like the more logical time frame. Plus, sadly, the '50s seems more likely when a child might have been sent away for having an "imaginary" friend.
But getting back to Julia and connections, I seem to recall that we read somewhere along the way that there was suppose to be some connection between Julia and Angelique, but there's no such connection ever alluded to in the film. All these missing pieces, if what was written was indeed true, can't help but make one wonder just what's in all the footage that was never included in the film or shared as deleted scenes on the Blu-ray...
-
The spoilers from the John August script--you may never have read those, MB--included the note that Julia and Angelique hated one another for reasons that had nothing to do with Barnabas. I hardly consider that comment a spoiler--more like a teaser--but then, some people have odd notions (odd to this writer, at least) as to what constitutes a spoiler.
Those spoilers were so off-the-wall in some cases in terms of what actually happened in the completed film that they must either have been based on an early draft of August's script--or been completely fabricated. I have speculated that the fabrication might have been a deliberate act of disinformation by person or persons unknown.
Best, G.
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I didn't read about the supposed connection between Julia and Angelique in the spoiler topic because, believe it or not, I still haven't even gotten around to reading most of that topic. [ghost_nowink] I definitely read it in a magazine or on a reputable Web site - possibly both - around the time that the first photos and articles began to show up in '11 - probably around September/October or so - and quite possibly in Entertainment Weekly and/or its Web site and/or Empire and/or its Web site. Places that were getting their info directly from the production of the film.
As for the spoilers, if they really are that bizarre, I suppose I really need to read them sooner rather than later - if for nothing else than for the good laughs they're likely to produce. [ghost_wink]
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I just re-read the original list of spoilers posted (I think it's topic 2 in the spoilers thread) and only a couple of them happen to be stuff that happened or was featured in the completed film.
Anne Rice's cameo is alluded to. I don't recall seeing her in the completed cut but she might have been present at the ball sequence.
An odd line is about seeing some very familiar artwork hanging at Collinwood. I wonder if this was meant to mean the series of swag portraits of herself Angie had done through the centuries. I presume those portraits were done via CGI but then again, knowing Burton, maybe he had them done for real.
The idea that Magtoria was [spoiler]a student of the occult who came to Collinwood because of her studies[/spoiler] seems to have been a complete red herring.
G.
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The current capture/quote is the first of at least 5 from the portion of scene #108 that was not included in the film. And I say at least 5 because the quotes from the deleted portion will continue into September, but I haven't picked out all the quotes for September yet. [ghost_wink]
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It really is too bad that the moments depicted in today's capture/quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0901DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 (Deleted) - Vicki: 'I just have a hard time trusting
doctors. No offense.'
- from the deleted portion of scene #108 weren't included in the film. As I confessed earlier in this topic, for reason of my own, I never really grasped the look of disdain on Vicki's face upon first meeting Julia and realizing she's a doctor until after I'd seen the film a few times. But for those who did grasp it the first time around, those moments from scene #108 would have been the perfect payoff for the way Vicki reacted when she first met Julia in the first dining room scene. And even for those who also hadn't picked up on Vicki's initial reaction to Julia, they would have still been a nice foreshadowing of what's to come once Vicki explains to Barnabas about her time at Windcliff.
-
It's really too bad these scenes were cut. I don't know how much I missed since I was away and offline starting last Wed. (28th), but this capture and the one for today again makes me think of just how good this movie COULD have been, And that's all I have to say at this point.
cheers, G.
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As far as today's capture/quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0902DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 (Deleted) - Julia: 'You know, honey, everyone in this
house has at least one big scary secret. Yours can't be all
that bad.'
- from the deleted portion of scene #108 goes, I believe it would have been the only place in the film where there would have been a direct reference to everyone at Collinwood having "at least one big scary secret." And I have wondered if perhaps one of the reasons scene #108 was trimmed was because it was ultimately decided not to fully emphasize all the characters' secrets in the film. After all, as we've mentioned before, Liz' supposed secret never really comes into play, nor does Roger's, or even Willie's and Mrs. Johnson, if they had them. And I realize the film couldn't have been three hours long. But I do think it would have been very interesting if the secrets could have all been touched on. But then, as I've theorized in the past - particularly because of Seth Grahame-Smith's remark that there was enough footage left on the cutting room floor for another film, I suspect the script was just too expansive for its own good, so once Warner Brothers decided the film couldn't run over two hours (for whatever bizarre reason [ghost_rolleyes]), that required the film to be cut down quite a bit. Alas... [ghost_sad]
Also, I love how the scene concludes with Vicki releasing a deep sigh after Julia leaves:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0902DS2012_0a.jpg)
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Another dining room scene means a chance for more really good moments in the film because the dining room scenes do not disappoint - and today's capture/quote begins the run of what is sadly the last of the dining room scenes in the film.
Right off the bat I love that there's no pretense with Barnabas. Apparently those in the know (Liz, Julia and Willie) no longer feel the need to make it look like Barnabas will be eating any of the food that's served. No - what Barnabas gets is big glass of blood:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0903DS2012_0.jpg)
One presumes the thinking is put it right out in the open where everyone can see it and no one will actually see it. Those not in the know may even think the eccentric Barnabas has simply decided to live on a steady and exclusive diet of tomato juice. [ghost_wink] It's really quite a smart move because no doubt after having lived with him day in and day out, Roger, Carolyn, Vicki and David have gotten to the point where purely accepting Barnabas' eccentricity is their normal mode of behavior when it comes to him.
And have I mentioned how much I love Mrs. Johnson? And this scene is no exception as she just quietly sits in her corner of the room squeezing oranges, while Willie swirls the juice around, possibly checking to see if it's ready to serve or if there's even enough to serve:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0903DS2012_0a.jpg)
[ghost_grin]
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I have to say, one of my most favorite characters in DP-DS was Mrs. Johnson. I simply adored her. It was obvious that she was, with Willie, one of the long-standing and only members of the "servants" employed by the Collinses and despite her obvious growing dementia, they felt entitled to her. She tried to do her best and she did, considering her decreasing condition. To me, this was one of the best situations where the Collinses did the "right" thing for someone else. They knew she was no longer able to do much, but they kept her on and allowed her to do what she could.
Gerard
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After Roger delivers today's quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0904DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Roger: 'Exactly what I've been saying. This family
could use some balls.'
- I absolutely love the dirty look Elizabeth gives him:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0904DS2012_0a.jpg)
Michelle Pfeiffer's face and eyes speak volumes. [ghost_wink]
And two other things I absolutely love before the next quote comes up are 1) how Julia comes staggering into the dining room seemingly with barely an once of an ability to tolerate the sunlight (the result of one of her legendary (as Elizabeth characterized them) hangovers - or a hint of something that's yet to be revealed?) -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0904DS2012_0b.jpg)
- and 2) the wink Roger gives Vicki after he says that Barnabas has a point and it's about time they throw some dough around to show the "peasants" that the family is back in action -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0904DS2012_0c.jpg)
- Roger, so perfectly condescending as ever towards the residents of Collinsport. [ghost_grin]
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Love JLM's Rogerisms
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You and me both, dom. One of the biggest shames about the finished film is how much Roger/JLM was apparently cut.
But changing reels, something that I love that happens after today's quote/capture and before tomorrow's is how -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0905DS2012_0a.jpg)
- Julia seems to grab for her coffee cup like coffee is literally her lifeline in the moment. [ghost_grin]
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Hilarious. I wish I could get a disc just with HBC and Pfeiffer's scenes...
G.
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I wish there had been a gag reel as one of the extras on the DVD/Blu-ray. The various behind the scenes featurettes that were released before and after the release of the film do include a few glimpses of the laughs on the set. But imagine what a gag reel must be like. [ghost_grin]
But changing the subject, as the final ([ghost_sad]) dining room scene concludes, I'd like to mention that I also love the reactions from Elizabeth, Roger, and Vicki -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0906DS2012_0a.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0906DS2012_0b.jpg)
- to Carolyn's suggestion that Barnabas needs to have Alice Cooper for the "happening" - as well as Elizabeth, Carolyn, and Roger's subsequent reactions to Barnabas' insistence that Alice will defintely be their guest.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0906DS2012_0c.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0906DS2012_0d.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0906DS2012_0e.jpg)
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Love Liz's coffee cup/tea cup. Very much a China trade heirloom I suspect...
G.
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remember all the wild speculation when the clip of Roger and an unidentifiable blond lady locking lips made the trailer???
was it Angelique? Vicki? or even the rather grotesque suggestion that maybe it was Liz???
but it just ended up being an extra. [ghost_rolleyes]
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Yes, the sequence as it was depicted in the trailer definitely brought up a lot of interesting speculation - though some character that we had as yet not learned about was also in the mix with Vicki, Angelique, and Liz. [ghost_wink] But no one had any idea that the entire scene would show Roger in such an unflattering light. And the worst of that - yes, even beyond Roger robbing the guests - was what he said when questioned about David:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0912DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Roger (in response to a question about who David is):
'I have no idea. I've never seen him before.'
Sure, Roger certainly showed annoyance towards David in earlier parts of the film, which is in line with how much of the film's plot is inspired by many aspects of the pre-Barn eps of the daytime series. But to completely deny him. Well, that goes even beyond how badly the daytime Roger treated David during those pre-Barn eps. Though, of course, the real worst is yet to come when the film's Roger makes his ultimate decision of what is more important to him...
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Great capture today, MB--Pfeiffer with KLS, Lara and David.
I don't remember Carolyn's line at all. But then, I only saw it one time, and I didn't even realize when I was watching that Roger was going through the guests' coats to try and rip off their wallets, etc. before getting down to biz with Miss Check-girl.
Roger's role was so heavily cut down that I personally find it difficult to evaluate much about the character as shown. He was certainly meant to be a sleazeball--that does come through with crystalline clarity.
But then, I'm so far from being an authority on the Burton-Depp production that even to comment may seem laughable...
G.
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The best things about today's quote (which is actually Carolyn reciting the opening lyric from Alice Cooper's "The Ballard of Dwight Fry") and capture with Elizabeth's surprised look -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0914DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Carolyn (off screen and on stage): '“Mommy,
where's Daddy? He's been gone for so long. Is he ever
coming home?”'
- are the looks Carolyn and Elizabeth exchange afterward:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0914DS2012_0a.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0914DS2012_0b.jpg)
If looks could kill, Carolyn would have surely been struck dead by Elizabeth's gaze! About the only clue we get to the likelihood that there's more to Carolyn's father's absence than meets the eye. (And wouldn't it be interesting if Elizabeth's husband and Roger's wife were somehow connected - but we may never know...)
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A connection between Laura and Mr. Stoddard? What an interesting idea, MB. That could make for some very interesting fan fiction!
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pfieffer really looks gorgeous in this scene...
I was indifferent and even skeptical of her casting initially but she ended up being one of the best things in the movie.
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they really went through a lot of trouble and expense for Vicki's escape from windcliff sequence. it was obviously a location shoot that likely took several days. remember those were among the first images we saw from the film?
the resulting footage was only used for a few seconds in a flashback.
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I don't know if anybody will see or know the answer to this question, but in the image that was posted yesterday, was that supposed to be Josette's ghost in the padded cell at Windcliff with child Magtoria?
G.
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yes...
josette's ghost had been visiting 'magtoria' since childhood. it is the reason her parents had her sent to windcliff in the first place. since they could not see josette they thought 'magtoria' disturbed and put her away...
seems like something of an overreach(permanently institutionalizing a child and in a padded isolation cell no less)but that's what the good mr. and mrs. evans decided was best.
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they really went through a lot of trouble and expense for Vicki's escape from windcliff sequence. it was obviously a location shoot that likely took several days. remember those were among the first images we saw from the film?
the resulting footage was only used for a few seconds in a flashback.
The sequence involving Vicki's escape from Windcliff was shot at Beckenham Place Park on the evening of July 26, 2011 between the hours of dusk and 2am - or so a few tweets made that day and some subsequent articles posted on the Internet told us. However, the supposed involvement of the dogs (that was mentioned by the SimonandLiz Hayhurst Consultancy, who were granted official access to the location - and who probably provided the best photos of the shoot) never did make it into the film. Presumably as guard dogs at Windcliff they would have chased Vicki as she made her escape across the grounds. But we may never know. (And it's interesting how dogs seem to be cut out of DS films because Gerard's dogs had their entire parts cut from NoDS. Though at least in the case of Scene #106(Tracy goes to the stables to ride and encounters Gerard and the dogs) DC supposedly didn't think the dogs acted vicious enough.)
And one other thing that's interesting about the the shooting at Beckenham Place Park was that there was supposedly a second day of shooting involving Helena Bonham Carter. If so, that stuff wouldn't seem to have appeared in the film either. But wouldn't it have been interesting if Julia had been at Windcliff at some point during Maggie's stay - though whether Julia would have been aware of Maggie as a patient there is anyone's guess...
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I don't know if anybody will see or know the answer to this question, but in the image that was posted yesterday, was that supposed to be Josette's ghost in the padded cell at Windcliff with child Magtoria?
Yes, as michael c pointed out, it's well established in Vicki's dream and in flashbacks that Josette's ghost had been a part of Vicki/Maggie's life since childhood. In addition to being in her cell with her, we saw Josette with Maggie in her bedroom:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/Josette_Maggie.jpg)
And we'll be seeing Josette in tomorrow's capture as she is instrumental in Maggie making a very important decision. [ghost_wink]
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I loved this connection between the characters. I thought it was brilliant. One of the many brilliancies connected with this film version as opposed to the original series. If only...
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josette's ghost had been visiting 'magtoria' since childhood. it is the reason her parents had her sent to windcliff in the first place. since they could not see josette they thought 'magtoria' disturbed and put her away...
seems like something of an overreach(permanently institutionalizing a child and in a padded isolation cell no less)but that's what the good mr. and mrs. evans decided was best.
I don't know if the padded cell and shock treatments ([ghost_shocked]) were so much her parents ideas as they were the hospital's decisions. And I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think anyone could be committed without a doctor's say so, so chances are her parents had Maggie examined and it was decided by the doctor or mutually between the doctor and her parents that she should be committed.
But as for the extremeness of the padded cell and the shock treatments, sadly it seems such practices were certainly in existence in the '50s and '60s, and even beyond. There were broad sweeping investigations of many institutions where such practices and those much worse took place with the end result being that such places were shut down for ineffective treatment and excessive cruelty. The film is probably strongly implying that Windcliff was such a place.
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over time I've come to forgive most of the film's flaws in logic and continuity...
but I can never get past the storytelling sloppiness of today's image. "Maggie Evans", seen here being prompted Josette's ghost, applies for a governess position for a "prominent Maine family". en route to the prearranged interview changes her name on the fly to "Victoria Winters" and then arrives to meet a group of people expecting a girl named Victoria Winters.
this is never explained and a needless bit of illogic. if they knew they wanted to go with this angle they could have had her change her name at an earlier point. [ghost_blink]
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I don't remember this image at all from this part of the movie (which, again, I saw once, at home on DVD, so I may have happened to look away or grab another snack at some moment).
I keep thinking that this particular story idea must have been inspired by the Lady Kitty storyline in the original series, but it plays out so differently, I wonder if that's the case.
I frankly had difficulty connecting with or knowing how to evaluate this whole sequence of Magtoria speaking about her early life with the montage going on. There was, for me, a twee, brittle, uncomfortably fancy-pants (given the serious subject matter of a young girl in the 1950s being institutionalized by her parents) element in how it was all presented visually that made me wonder if Burton was deliberately parodying how mental illness is traditionally presented in certain films.
G.
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But as for the extremeness of the padded cell and the shock treatments, sadly it seems such practices were certainly in existence in the '50s and '60s, and even beyond. There were broad sweeping investigations of many institutions where such practices and those much worse took place with the end result being that such places were shut down for ineffective treatment and excessive cruelty. The film is probably strongly implying that Windcliff was such a place.
To my mind, this fits in with the kind of logic that applied in the original series. I have no trouble with Windcliff administering such extreme treatments to someone who's seeing ghosts (Maggie in the movie), if I can also accept their very laissez-faire treatment of an assumed kidnapper/serial killer (Willie in the OS).
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but I can never get past the storytelling sloppiness of today's image. "Maggie Evans", seen here being prompted Josette's ghost, applies for a governess position for a "prominent Maine family". en route to the prearranged interview changes her name on the fly to "Victoria Winters" and then arrives to meet a group of people expecting a girl named Victoria Winters.
this is never explained and a needless bit of illogic. if they knew they wanted to go with this angle they could have had her change her name at an earlier point. [ghost_blink]
I still maintain that she used the assumed name on the application, made a mistake in practicing her introduction, saw the poster which reminded her of the assumed name (snow, cold, winter...), and corrected herself. If nothing else, that part shows that -- even from the first line of the script -- she is conflicted over her own identity, always has been, and always will be... until the time comes when she can be her own person, or someone else's own person. [ghost_wink]
And I love the fact that Maggie is in a diner, sitting with Josette. The flashback had to be one of my favorite parts, if only because it was so meaningful in so many ways.
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I still maintain that she used the assumed name on the application, made a mistake in practicing her introduction, saw the poster which reminded her of the assumed name (snow, cold, winter...), and corrected herself. If nothing else, that part shows that -- even from the first line of the script -- she is conflicted over her own identity, always has been, and always will be... until the time comes when she can be her own person, or someone else's own person. [ghost_wink]
Thank you, CB. That's a great interpretation.
And I love the fact that Maggie is in a diner, sitting with Josette. The flashback had to be one of my favorite parts, if only because it was so meaningful in so many ways.
OMG! I never thought of that!
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I agree the the setup and possibilities of the 'magtoria' character had a lot of interesting potential...
but again it's one the the narrative's more notable flaws that the character is given this rather elaborate and convoluted backstory and this strong introduction...and then is promptly relegated to the sidelines in favor of other characters and another story in which she only plays a peripheral role.
I mean she's "supposed to" have a lot of significance in terms of her relationship to Josette but as the film plays out somehow that gets lost. she ends up being a character along the lines of Roger or Carolyn...an important "presence" at Collinwood but not really as central to the story as her early scenes would implicate.
I just think it's odd. again they took a lot of trouble and expense filming the flashback sequences for the character but then sort of marginalized her from the overall narrative. I don't know if Bella fell prey to excessive postproduction editing of if the role was never really there to begin with but it's strange for a film's putative "heroine" to end up with so little screentime.
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and I hadn't really thought of it before but indeed the shot of 'magtoria' in the diner seems to be a slight wink to the character's waitress role in the OS.
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I also thought it was a brilliant tribute to the OS to have Maggie Evans (Victoria Winters) sitting in a hash diner. Depp and Burton did their homework well. It was magnificent that they kept the fact that Maggie Evans, not Victoria Winters, is the reincarnation of Josette, just as it had been in the OS. It was a vast improvement over the '91 version, a true testimonial to the OS. When I first saw the film in the theater, and she said: "Hello, my name is Maggie Eva...," I shouted: "Oh, my god! She's Maggie Evans!" The few who knew the original series in the two-dozen in our group who were there agreed, although the rest were mystified. Afterwards, as we sat in an Olive Garden discussing the film, we filled them in on the OS. They all agreed it was brilliant.
Gerard
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she ends up being a character along the lines of Roger or Carolyn...an important "presence" at Collinwood but not really as central to the story as her early scenes would implicate.
I consider the well-done parts of the picture to be the scenes with Pfeiffer and/or Heathcote, so I only really think about those parts and tend to ignore the rest, hence my keen interest in the flashback and in Victoria's past. As a result of this fixation, I give the characters and scenes more life and substance than they actually have on-screen. Victoria's screentime was horribly cut. Her character and development would make little sense to an outsider, but to people like us, who love the original, it's really a blessing to have received what we did, but a curse knowing that there is so much more that never made it into the movie. That's where all of the rest of the good stuff was, I'm sure.
In re-watching Leviathans, I like the fact that Jeb mentions that both of Maggie's parents are [spoiler]dead, that no one will miss her. No family. No connections but the ones at Collinwood, just like Vicki[/spoiler] It made me realize just how perfectly blended the characters of Maggie and Vicki became, and how spot-on this twist was in the Burton film.
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Having the scene on the train where Maggie Evans changes her name to Victoria Winters flow into her disembarking the train, hitching a ride with the hippies, and then arriving at Collinwood as Vicki and not Maggie does come off as odd as edited. Clearly Collinwood is expecting a Vicki and not a Maggie. But what if Maggie didn't fill out the application before she traveled to Collinsport? What if Josette's ghost, who obviously has influence over her, persuaded Maggie to go to Collinsport first and then contact Elizabeth? Then Vicki, as it were, may have even called Elizabeth from the train station, and she may have even been in Collinsport for two or more days, giving her time to fill out the application and get it back to Elizabeth before she went for the in-person interview. The film as edited certainly doesn't make it seem that way. But judicious editing can make a lot of things seem different from the way they were originally intended in a script. And in at least one case that we can definitely point to in the film, the flow of the editing, particularly Vicki unpacking her suitcase before Josette's ghost tells her that "he's coming," makes it seem that Barnabas arrives on the say day that Vicki does when, if one is paying attention, that cannot be the case because of everyone at Collinwood wearing different clothes. But if one doesn't pick up on the clothes, one definitely gets the strong impression it's the same day. Who knows if there were actually scripted scenes that would have made the name change more logical? We may never know.
And while we're on the subject of possibly missing scenes, there are at least two other interesting questions about Vicki's initial arrival in Collisport/at Collinwood. 1) Where did she get the money for the train ticket? And probably more importantly 2) How did she obtain a suitcase of clothes that she arrives with? We clearly saw Maggie escape from Windcliff with just the clothes on her back - the soaking wet clothes on her back, in fact. Yet a well put together Vicki travels to Collinsport and arrives at Collinwood. So, could it actually be that scenes are missing between Maggie seeing the notice in newspaper and the train ride to Collinsport? Might have Maggie gotten a job at the diner we saw her in after her escape? If so, that could explain where Maggie got money for the train ticket and the clothes - and it would also explain why, when Bella Heathcote was cast, her character was frequently referred to as a waitress who Barnabas falls for. Again, though, we may never know.
A sometimes unfortunate fact of filmmaking that happens time and time again is how scenes are often removed from films because the studio, the producer(s), and sometimes even the director feels that even though they imparted important info, they were cut because it was decided that they slowed down the momentum of the film. I've heard that said many times during DVD commentaries and/or featurettes. So, perhaps that's what happened with many of the known or presumed missing scenes in the Depp/DS film.
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Victoria's screentime was horribly cut. Her character and development would make little sense to an outsider, but to people like us, who love the original, it's really a blessing to have received what we did, but a curse knowing that there is so much more that never made it into the movie. That's where all of the rest of the good stuff was, I'm sure.
I don't doubt for a second that much of Vicki's part was cut from the film (in fact, I plan to make an upcoming post about one thing that I'm really disappointed was cut), but I would disagree that as edited Vicki's arc makes little sense. Her arc would certainly seem to be that she overcame a great deal of suffering in her life to reach her true destiny. And much of that destiny was to reach Collinwood, to meet Barnabas, to at last find a home, and to become an important part of Barnabas' existence. Vicki says as much in the current scene in the slideshow and particularly in yesterday's quote:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0927DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'For most of my life, I've wanted a place where
I belonged. A place where I could feel at home again. Feel
loved again. And I've found that place here at Collinwood.'
And I would also add the concluding part of that where Vicki says "And here" as she steps in to kiss Barnabas passionately.
Granted, it's a different arc from what we saw in the original series, and on that front it departs from how much of the film draws from the situations/characterizations in the pre-Barn eps - but it is a valid arc in which all the pieces are indeed there within the film. And one could go so far as to say Vicki's ultimate fate in the film could also be seen as her ultimate destiny. But we should wait until the December slideshow to discuss anything related to Vicki's ultimate destiny. [ghost_wink]
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That's a wonderful image of Eva Green posted on today's slideshow. The lipstick (although it is very similar to Joan Bennett's trademark look) makes me think of Bette Davis and the red dress makes me think of Bette's infamous work in the 1930s classic JEZEBEL.
I know it's probably just a flaw in something or other but I could swear it looks as if there are tiny cracks on Angie's face in this image...
G.
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I thought that Angie's cracking like an Easter egg here muted its effect in the finale. It would have been more impressive if I hadn't already seen the same bit of business during the happening.
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As I commented in the In Release topic for the film, I actually liked the cracking being show at this point. It's an interesting foreshadowing of what's to come - just as her adjusting her face in her first scene in 1972 is a hint that there's more to her appearance than first meets the eye.
it's interesting how Angelique's fate in the climax is actually hinted at in the scene where her forehead cracks slightly after she witnesses Barnabas and Vicki kissing at The Happening
And as I was preparing the quotes/captures for the slideshow this month, I noticed that it's also interesting that from the very outset of seeing Angelique in 1972 we're shown that it's as if her retained youth and beauty are simply a mask she's presenting to the world, which is indeed exactly what she is doing -
(http://www.dsboards.com/DeppDS/facemask.jpg)
- though without knowing the ending, we certainly wouldn't really pick up on that so soon in the film.
Though at the point that it happens during The Happening, it's become much more obvious.
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The Vicki sequence that I'm really disappointed wasn't included in the film is when she dances with Barnabas at the party:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/Shooting_Their_Dance.jpg)
It seems like perhaps it would have been an even more tender moment than their exchange on the terrace, and it might have also cemented their relationship even more in the audience's mind. But alas, perhaps it was yet another sequence that may have been sacrificed for the momentum of the film - or even in order to comply with that weird WB edict that the film run under 2 hours.
Unfortunately I don't have the magazines that came out in the few months prior to the film's release (I lent them to a friend back at Christmastime of last year when I gave him a copy of the Blu-ray as a gift and I haven't gotten them back yet) so I can't look up the actual article - but it would be interesting to go back to whichever article it was that mentioned how long Burton's initial cut of the film was because it was much longer than the version that was ultimately released.
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What I meant about Vicki's character development was really a commentary on how sloppily her relationships were formed. If one pays careful attention, he can get all of the pieces from the film, but if I were an average Joe, I would be wondering how in the heck this nice girl fell for the vampire dude. It's like, all of a sudden, they are kissing on the terrace and sharing their darkest secrets. Even the walk on the beach was wasted in this regard, as it was trying to make up for the fact that David's screentime was cut as well. Vicki's AWOL for a huge chunk of the narrative, which focuses more on the humorous elements of Barnabas and his transition to 1972. It seems, to me, that much of the story was pushed aside in favor of the "comedic" scenes.
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if I were an average Joe, I would be wondering how in the heck this nice girl fell for the vampire dude. It's like, all of a sudden, they are kissing on the terrace and sharing their darkest secrets.
Though it's really the whole point of most of Vicki's arc that she doesn't understand her pull to Collinwood or her attraction to Barnabas. Both are a mystery to her - and Vicki says as much in the scene on the terrace. Here are two recent examples from the slideshow:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0919DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'I don't know why, but for some reason, I feel like I
can tell you anything. It's like I've known you forever.'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0920DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Vicki: 'I don't know what it is. I just know there's
always been something pulling me here. Pulling me to Collinsport.
To you.'
So, if at that point they're both still a mystery to Vicki, one couldn't fault the possibly that they may still be a mystery to some in the audience and they're questioning just what it is that's going on. However, by the end of the film, things become much clearer. (Though as I said previously, we should probably wait until the December slideshow to discuss Vicki's ultimate destiny. [hall2_wink])
Even the walk on the beach was wasted in this regard, as it was trying to make up for the fact that David's screentime was cut as well.
Back in August when the slideshow was focusing on that scene, I'd wanted to make a post about it, but time got away from me and I was going to wait until it comes around again in the slideshow next year. But since the scene has been brought up now, it's interesting, because there's more going on in there than just a simple discussion about David - particularly when Vicki delivers the line -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0803DS2012_0a.jpg)
Vicki: 'Part of me believes there are things in this world we don't
understand. Things like magic, death, destiny.'
- and that way she looks at Barnabas when she references destiny. It's definitely laying a foundation for what's to come. [hall2_smiley]
Vicki's AWOL for a huge chunk of the narrative
One thing that I've found quite interesting as I've been doing the captures/quotes for the film's slideshow is that, believe it or not, it actually seems that Angelique disappears for more extended periods of time than Vicki does, which is actually fascinating when one considers some have accused the film of focusing too much time on Angelique. But then that perception could be similar to how we often think that Mrs. Johnson was always a presence at Collinwood on the original show, but the reality is that she was actually in less than 60 eps (I'm too lazy to dig up the actual number [hall2_cheesy]). Though it could easily be that both Mrs. Johnson on the show and Angelique in the film have such strong presences when they're on screen that we feel like they're there more than they actually are. [hall2_wink]
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I think we can all agree on that last thought, MB. Plus, Mrs. Johnson is constantly referenced, and Angelique is at the center of the plot, so it probably makes up for lost screen-time.
Like I said, there is a ton of stuff in the film relating to Vicki, but it's so low-key, it gets pushed to the wayside. I think if Vicki were more central to the plot, I'd feel better about her place and her "destiny." If nothing else, Twilight probably sealed the deal with downplaying Vicki's part and upsizing the presence of Angelique.
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Well, some might suppose that it's hard not to come across as a bit low-key when your rival is as large a character as Angelique, Twilight or no Twilight. [hall2_smiley] Woe to any of Angelique's rivals in any version of DS. [hall2_wink]
But getting back to the slideshow, this was almost the capture to accompany today's quote:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1007DS2012_0a.jpg)
But ultimately I decided to go with the sinister smirk:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1007DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'Madam. I am neither good nor gentle, and
I do not forgive.'
While the first is certainly vicious (with the inclusion of fangs, how could it not be?), frankly, I've always found that the toying nature of the second helps to make things even more menacing. In fact, I think Depp played the scene to perfection. As did Helena Bonham Carter. It's really one of my favorites in the film. And the line in today's quote is really the type of remark that Barnabas would classically deliver.
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This was one of my favorite scenes as well. It was unexpected, as it was one of the few things not given away in the trailer. Plus, like a good re-imagining, it took a familiar scene and turned it on its head. A highlight for sure.
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I also appreciate how, I believe, DS-12 stuck with how the OS was suppose to go. Barnabas and Julia were never meant, from what I've read, to become bosom-buddies - they were to remain adversaries; they played off of each other until the climax of how the 13-week arc was suppose to go and neither came out alive. However, in DS-12, one did come out "alive."
Gerard
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I thought the reversal of the 'experiment' was a brilliant call.
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The smirk seems tres Willy Wonka.
The scene did nothing for me. But Julia's fangs were cool. I wonder if HBC did the film only on the proviso that she got to have fangs somewhere down the line. I could imagine her making that stipulation. I AM a Helena fan.
G.
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I also loved the fangs:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1008DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'Aah!'
They seem to lend a bit or corroborative evidence to the theory that I brought up in reply #129 that perhaps it wasn't just a hangover or even a hangover at all that caused Julia's aversion to the sun in the final dining room scene in the film. They're also[spoiler]a nice hint of what's to come in the final moments of the film.[/spoiler]But more on that once the December slideshow draws to a close.
Another thing I loved was how Barnabas was not just able to drain Julia's own blood but he was even able to drain the bag of blood because it was attached to Julia. It was a very effective way to end the scene:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1008DS2012_0a.jpg)
And it was an inventive way to get the point across completely without really resorting to things getting bloody.
For me, anyway, the scene was classically DS. I could so easily see it in any previous versions of the show.
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I forgot to mention the other day while the scene of Barnabas and Willie disposing of Julia's body was current in the slideshow that I find it amusing that it's the only sequence in the film in which Barnabas wears his hat, gloves and sunglasses at night. Was he afraid of moonburn? [hall2_grin]
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1010DS2012_0a.jpg)
But seriously, I do actually have a theory as to why it may be that it's the only nighttime scene in the entire film with Barnabas dressed like that - and it's that perhaps the scene was mostly if not entirely shot second unit with stand-ins instead of with Johnny Depp and Jackie Earle Haley. The scene is almost exclusive comprised of long shots without any close ups of the characters - and the characters are nearly always seen in shadow. (The capture I'm sharing is the only time in the scene where Barnabas is even slightly seen in a bit of light as the beacon from a lighthouse passes by - but it only lasts on screen for an instant - and Willie's face is never really seen). And it seems fairly clear that the dialogue was looped for the sequence. So, if my theory is the case, dressing Barnabas up in that manner would have been a good way to disguise that it wasn't Depp shooting the scene. [hall2_wink]
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In the context of the film I figured he was concealing himself as much as possible so as not to be identified.
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I also had that thought as a possibility. But then I figured that rather than being an effective disguise, that getup would have probably made him even more recognizable because Barnabas wore it during the whole Collins Cannery reconstruction, which would have been big doings in town and something the whole town would have been likely to pay attention to. Even in silhouette, practically anyone in town would have probably recognized him! [hall2_cheesy] So, if wearing that getup was supposed to disguise himself, Barn wasn't thinking very clearly when he made the choice. But then, on second thought, what else would really be new? Regardless of the version of DS, Barn often makes ill-considered decisions. [hall2_grin] [hall2_rolleyes]
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Though, of course, the real worst is yet to come when the film's Roger makes his ultimate decision of what is more important to him...
And we're at that point currently in the slideshow. And honestly, I think Barnabas isn't even describing the half of it when he calls Roger "selfish":
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1016DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'Or you leave with sufficient money to live
your thieving, selfish life elsewhere.'
Even beyond his ultimate decision, the real evidence for that is when Roger is faced with the choice of becoming the father David so desperately wants and deserves, he has the audacity to ask:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1015DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Roger: 'Or?'
To say the film's Roger is a despicable bastard would still be putting it mildly!!
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When I and about two-dozen friends went to see DS12 the opening weekend, and most were basically unfamiliar with the series, and we talked about it afterwards and they had tons of questions about the OS, Roger was one of the most perplexing and interesting characters to them, especially when I described him from the OS. I stated that he was also a bastard especially in the way he treated his son, but unlike the DS12 Roger, he was consumed with his family. My friends and acquaitances came to the conclusion that both Rogers were bastards to David coming from different angles: the OS one viewed David as a burden because of his slavish devotion to family pride, while the DS12 one viewed David as a burden because he couldn't care less about the family other than what he could get materialistic out of it. They thought both approaches were brilliant. They said that taking the OS Roger and making him into the DS12 Roger by Depp/Burton was genious.
Gerard
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I had no qualms with the writing of any of the core family members... except for Carolyn (but we know about that). I was pleased with all three of them, and I think they improved upon the characterizations from the 1991 series, though I think JGL's David is still the ultimate portrayal of that scary little guy.
-
The 2012 film version of Roger really WAS a bastard. I felt so sorry for poor David....his dad chose to run out on him rather than stay and be a dad to him. No wonder he favored Barnabas more....
Let's be truthful....all 3 Rogers, in the OS, 1991 version and in Burton's film were really rotten, neglectful dads. But only Roger in the original show actually improved as time went on.
-
I was watching some of the early Laura Collins episodes (1966/67) a few weeks ago and it was pretty blatantly clear that Roger was THRILLED at the idea of Laura packing David off for good. There are some really good scenes when Liz starts to dig her heels in and Roger is genuinely baffled as to why she's opposed to something that "is really in his best interests."
It's so beyond apparent that Roger would just love to be rid of David at this point...
G.
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I meant to ask... beyond the line in today's image, was there ever any acknowledgement that Liz noticed that Julia had just disappeared overnight?
G.
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No. But then the entire rest of the film takes place on the day/night after Julia's disappearance and there are just a few other things keeping Elizabeth's attention. [hall2_wink]
-
Roger's choosing to leave was my only real 'emotional' disappointment with the film's plot and it is only because of my being an OS watching fan.
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A bit of old business from the previous scene in the slideshow: even though I'd already taken the capture that I'd wanted to post, I completely forgot to say that I love the look on JLM's face when Barnabas catches Roger looking for the way to access the secret stairway he'd caught Barnabas exiting from earlier in the film.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1011DS2012_0a.jpg)
But then, as I've pretty much already said, I love everything about JLM's performance in the film. He was flawless. And whether on his own or on instruction from Burton, he gave Roger some fascinating tics that certainly hint that there's much more to Roger than we got to see in the film. And it's a terrible shame that if they were meant to actually pay off in the film, the pay off scene(s) ended up on the cutting room floor. [sad10]
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I agree 100 percent.
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Speaking of JLM material that was left on the cutting room floor, one thing that I do tend to agree with was how Roger's big apology to David was cut. I'm sure JLM must have rocked it, but Burton probably did make the right choice by leaving it out because he thought it muddied Roger's arc and seemed out of place. The absence of an apology preserves Roger's character as the despicable bastard that the majority of the rest of the film presents him as: a man who would selfishly (to put it mildly) choose money over his own son. In that respect it was probably more effective to just see Roger look to Elizabeth and Barnabas -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1016DS2012_0a.jpg)
- glance down at David -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1016DS2012_0b.jpg)
- but then simply turn on his heels to pick up his bags and go -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1016DS2012_0c.jpg)
- leaving David devastated -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1016DS2012_0d.jpg)
- and in tears.
Though, even with all that being said, it would have been nice to have seen the full version of the scene play out as a deleted/extended scene on the Blu-ray. But alas...
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How do you know that there was a scene like that?
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I forget exactly which online interview it was in, but in one of the online interviews that was posted after the film opened Tim Burton talked about how Roger's apology was cut and why. (Seth Grahame-Smith may have also brought it up.)
If I had more time right now I'd look it up in the In Release topic because I'm pretty sure it was referred to and at least briefly discussed at the time.
-
I forget exactly which online interview it was in, but in one of the online interviews that was posted after the film opened Tim Burton talked about how Roger's apology was cut and why. (Seth Grahame-Smith may have also brought it up.)
I'm pretty sure that link to the SGS video interview is the one here:
...Seth Grahame-Smith discusses some specifics of the scenes that didn't make it into the film:
Seth Grahame Smith Talks DARK SHADOWS, the BEETLEJUICE Sequel, Tim Burton’s NIGHT OF THE LIVING, UNHOLY NIGHT, and More (http://collider.com/seth-grahame-smith-dark-shadows-beetlejuice-2-sequel-interview/165537/)
SGS speaks about Tim Burton and Chris Lebenzon cutting the Roger/David good-bye scene (4:29 to 6:39). It's around halfway down Collider's page.
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Thanks so much, Midnite, for tracking that down - it's definitely the SGS interview I was thinking of. [hall2_smiley]
If only we might have gotten that extended cut that SGS spoke of. But no. And actually, releases of extended cuts seem to have little to no correlation to how well a film is received by either critics or at the box office because, as I've lamented a few times over the past year, during this past year alone some films that made far less money at the box office and received reviews that would have made some of the DS film's worst look like glowing accolades had extended/director's cuts released on DVD/Blu-ray. Though if I'm remembering correctly, none of them were films that were made/released by WB. And as we know only too well, WB isn't exactly in a mood to release DS-related extended/director's cuts on DVD/Blu-ray, now are they! [hall2_rolleyes]
Actually, it's a terrible shame that so little of what was cut was released on the Blu-ray. But then, given WB's basic uh, stinginess (to put it politely), I suppose we should be grateful for what we did get...
-
Something that we've never mentioned on the forum, but considering today's installment of the slideshow features David sobbing after Roger leaves him, and that the entire sequence really belongs to David/Gully McGrath, it's definitely worth noting that as part of the 2013 Young Artist Awards, and in the category of Best Performance in a Feature Film - Supporting Young Actor, Gully McGrath was nominated, not for his role as Tad Lincoln in Lincoln, as some might have expected, but for his role as David in the Depp/DS film. [hall2_wink]
Of course, that only serves to make it even more upsetting that most of his work as David seems to have ended up on the cutting room floor - and it ended up being cut - well, at least most of David scenes with Barnabas ended up being cut really early in the editing process because I recall Seth Grahame-Smith commenting that much of the material between David and Barnabas was cut before SGS even saw one of the first rough cuts of the film.
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MB and Midnite - thanks for the answer and the link to the interview - very interesting!!
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as the film ended up it didn't make much difference to the overall narrative that Roger departed when he did...
immediately afterwards it careens towards it's explosive and overstuffed climactic scenes and Roger's presence or lack thereof really wouldn't have made much of a difference.
JLM's roger certainly seemed like a louche creep but as the film was edited it didn't really explain why Barnabas despised him so much. it's not like he didn't have bigger fish to fry. [hall_huh]
still his performance was a lot of fun and definitely added to the film's trippy atmosphere.
-
As the film plays, the audience never got to see all the cut scenes between Barnabas and David - most of their relationship is simply implied by what others say in their scenes when referring to it (which is a real shame - but we've gone into that recently, so I won't rehash). And the only thing that the audience is aware that Barnabas witnessed with regard to Roger and David was Roger having David guard the room while Roger made out with the coat check girl - Barnabas didn't even see Roger going through the guests' coats. Yet in the scene in which Barnabas gives Roger the choice, Barnabas specifically speaks of Roger's "thieving, selfish life." That certainly indicates that somehow Barnabas is aware of much more than the audience is aware he is, and it would seem to imply that there may have been a cut scene in which at least some of the guests discovered that things had been stolen from them and somehow Barnabas was aware of it and perhaps even took care of it with a bit of his hypnotic powers. And there's also how Barnabas says he's going to give Roger a choice despite the fact that he finds doing so "so repellent that it sickens" him to his "very core." That brings to mind that quite possibly the spoiler that said that in the film Barnabas plans to kill Roger but someone talks him out of it may have indeed been real. Perhaps Barnabas expressed his outrage over Roger to Elizabeth, and while doing so he threatened to kill Roger, but Elizabeth talked him out of it, and instead it was decided to give Roger the choice.
Unfortunately, though, there's nothing more substantial than a few inklings in the film that any of that might be possible, though I do suppose the inklings are there. But sadly, as things stand in the film, it's completely up to the audience to piece the depths of the Barnabas/David and Barnabas/Roger relationships together by simply using dialogue and situations that mostly hint at them rather than expressly describe them.
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Today's image and caption are hysterical. I'm imagining Grayson's Julia playing this scene. And Julia's role in the OS was really to sort of let the perennially clueless Barn know when, metaphorically, his own ass was on fire... a role that shifts to Liz in Depp Shadows.
G.
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Today's image and caption are hysterical. I'm imagining Grayson's Julia playing this scene. And Julia's role in the OS was really to sort of let the perennially clueless Barn know when, metaphorically, his own ass was on fire... a role that shifts to Liz in Depp Shadows.
Indeed! [hall2_wink] Though even more than today's quote/capture, I love the look Elizabeth gives Barnabas after she's warned him:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0a.jpg)
As well as Barnabas sniffing the air when he apparently starts to smell the smoke:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0e.jpg)
Those looks are priceless, as well as very different from the reactions of the others in the room:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0b.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0c.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0d.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1019DS2012_0f.jpg)
And even more priceless is that Mrs. Johnson just continues mopping away (as we see her doing in the background of the third capture in reply #185), completely oblivious to the fact that anything odd is going on. But then, that's pretty much Mrs. Johnson throughout the entire film. [hall2_grin]
Though on a serious note, the whole Barnabas-Is-On-Fire incident really sets off the chain reaction of events leading to the final events in the film because, with Julia no longer in the picture with her supposed treatments to cure him, it sends Barnabas to Angie to demand that she remove his curse.
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Is there a context for today's capture and quote? I'm completely blanking on this part of the movie.
My question is partly rhetorical--no need to feel obligated to post an answer.
G.
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Is there a context for today's capture and quote? I'm completely blanking on this part of the movie.
when barnabas arrives at "angie's" office there is a decanter of blood on the conference table. he asks her who's blood it is before, if I recall, drinking a glass from it.
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even after multiple viewings i'm still confused by Vicki's attitude towards Barnabas in the fire scene above and her actions the next time we see her.
[spoiler]she appears to be under a spell(Angelique? Josette?)as she heads towards widows hill. but her final move seems to be of her own volition.[/spoiler]
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[pointing-up] I have a theory about that, but I'd rather wait until the December slideshow to get into it. [hall2_wink]
And thanks for clearing things up for Gothick. [hall2_smiley] (I've added a qualifier to the quote.)
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I have to say that a lot of the film's stabs at humor fell flat...
but calling Angelique "Angie" was actually pretty inspired.
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I got some big laughs out of some of the humor, while other bits merely resulted in a mild chuckle or an amused smile - though I honestly do suspect that some of the humor wasn't meant to result in anything more than an amused smile, or even an eye roll. But then some of the things that I got the biggest laughs out of (moments that I've tried to point out during the slideshow and will be continuing to point out in future installments) are things that others were outraged by, so what can I say other than that humor is probably one of the most subjective things in life? [hall2_wink]
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Thanks to MB and michael for explaining. I did think Magtoria's attitude in the fire scene was strange--at least, the picture of her posted here seemed odd. I really don't recall much about this part of the movie from my single viewing.
G.
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I agree with you regarding the humor, MB.
I am under the impression that no family knew Barn was a vampire except Liz.
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I will be very interested in hearing your theory about the Vicki/Maggie/Josette business, MB. I just wish that December wasn't so far off.
It felt odd to me that the heroine is noticeably MIA from here until the finale. Choppy continuity? Cut footage? It shouldn't have taken her that long to get to Widows' Hill.
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This scene seemed like a big in-joke to me, a la letting actors deliver their lines in a room filled with flies. This scene is the epitome of the Burton vision of Dark Shadows, that whole "strange vibe" he was talking about. It's a "blooper" written into the script and everyone being forced to ignore it or react in some way. Coming right after the most emotional scene in the whole movie, it's his tribute to the original's sometimes haphazard occurrences at the most inopportune times.
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Though the Barnabas-on-Fire incident wasn't simply there for pure humor. I believe it serves three purposes beyond that. It clues in the rest of the family and Vicki that Barnabas is even a bit odder than they imagined. It, as I said previously, sends Barnabas to Angie to demand to be human, and that's mostly because of the way David and Vicki reacted to him. And it may serve another purpose - but I'm going to wait to get into that. [hall2_wink]
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I've always found it interesting that Angie knows these things:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1022DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Angie: 'I knew it wouldn't be long before you barged in,
begging me to make you mortal again. Now that Dr. Hoffman
isn't around to give you your little transfusions.'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1024DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Angie: 'Interesting. I don't know many people who
take business meetings on the bottom of the ocean.'
But then, as I said before, anyone in Collinsport would have surely recognized Barnabas dressed in the hat, cape and gloves - even in the middle of a really dark night. And chances are very good that Angie had one of her henchmen watching Barn's every move outside of Collinwood, so he could have seen the disposal of Julia's body and reported back to Angie. What's more interesting, though, is that she knew Julia was supposedly giving Barnabas transfusions. Did the henchmen peek through the windows of Julia's lab to learn that? Or did Angie have some sort of an informant at Collinwood? I suppose we'll never know. But if there was an inside informant, the real fun would be to try to figure out who it was. And perhaps it was even yet another subplot that was cut.
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I found it odd that they made a really big point of setting the piece in 1972 and then the costumer did absolutely nothing to reflect that in "angie's" wardrobe and hairstyles...
everything she wore in the film could easily be worn today and look perfectly current. [hall_huh]
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"Did the henchmen peek through the windows of Julia's lab to learn that? Or did Angie have some sort of an informant at Collinwood?"
MB dearest, she IS a witch ... [hall_wink]
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I found it odd that they made a really big point of setting the piece in 1972 and then the costumer did absolutely nothing to reflect that in "angie's" wardrobe and hairstyles...
everything she wore in the film could easily be worn today and look perfectly current. [hall_huh]
I remember many women (and girls) wearing those types of outfits and hairstyles back in '72. It was the Marcia-Brady-look.
Gerard
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MB dearest, she IS a witch ... [hall_wink]
True. And I really did consider that. [hall2_smiley] But does simply being a witch make one all-knowing? If so, I must have missed that chapter in the Witch's Handbook. [hall2_wink]
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I remember many women (and girls) wearing those types of outfits and hairstyles back in '72. It was the Marcia-Brady-look.
the black pantsuit??? the black skirtsuit??? the blue bustier ensemble??? the red sequined gown??? the black dress seen in today's slideshow??? sorry G but nothing Angelique wore in the film remotely resembles anything Marcia Brady ever wore.
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One of the things I just can't get past with this movie is the look chosen for Angelique and Barnabas. Between his ugly clown makeup and those awful faux-Trask line-readings, and her ghastly dyed blonde hair with that trampy clothing, my reaction could be summed up in a noted saying of the great sage Lucy van Pelt: BLEAH.
G.
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I actually think Colleen Atwood did an amazing job with the costuming...
considering it was set in 1972 it could have been, and I feared it would be, WAY campier. but there wasn't really a bellbottom or platform shoe to be seen. and Atwood's palette was beautiful. she handled it with a subtle hand. I liked what she did with Elizabeth, Julia and Vicki in particular. and Roger's "Van Heusen" look was spot on.
I just think she wimped out on "Angie".
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Imagine if "Angie" had been given something like the outfit Parker wore for the "tycoon to lackey" scene in 1970... now THAT would have looked great on Eva Green... particularly if whoever was responsible for the hair had had their act together. But, as Sandor uttered in 1897, "what might have been... can never be!"
G.
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oh G now yu're going to get me going way off-topic...
but do not even get me started on the chicness what was former model/trophy wife mrs.Schyler Rumson of little Winnewood island!
to paraphrase Nicholas Blair..."Angelique how well you look in black".
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Well... you have to get up pretty damn early in the morning to outdo a Witch AND Now Look fashion plate who takes a drive to the airport and comes back sporting a completely different wiglet AND up-do!
Little Maggie Collins in her Junior Sophisticates off-the-rack trash didn't even have a chance... (mixing storylines, but wotthehell..)
G.
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MB: I was thinking about the bat Ang sent to spy on Barnabas in 1795. Maybe her Tim Burton counterpart had similar tricks up her hooker boots? (I was going to say "sleeve," but I like hooker boots more.) [hall_grin]
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One of the things I just can't get past with this movie is the look chosen for Angelique and Barnabas. Between his ugly clown makeup and those awful faux-Trask line-readings, and her ghastly dyed blonde hair with that trampy clothing, my reaction could be summed up in a noted saying of the great sage Lucy van Pelt: BLEAH.
I had mixed feelings about Angelique. The whole look for her, particularly the bright red lipstick, the overall impression, rather than being beautiful, was rather garish.
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I can't speak to Angie's clothes because I honestly don't remember Colleen Atwood commenting on the look they chose for her (though, believe it or not, there are extras on the Blu-ray that I still haven't gotten around to watching, so there may be details in them) but so far as her make-up goes, I honestly do think that the intention was for it to be garish because it fits in completely with the fact that Angie's supposedly retained beauty in 1972 is very much a facade.
As for Depp's look as Barnabas, we know for a fact that mainly it was a backlash against the Twilight franchise (but then, so much of the film is a backlash against that franchise). Both Depp and Burton had commented on numerous occasions that they don't like how in too many current vampire films it's impossible to tell who the vampire(s) is(are) because they basically look just like everyone else. They wanted a return to what they consider the "classic" vampire look in books and films of yore.
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MB: I was thinking about the bat Ang sent to spy on Barnabas in 1795. Maybe her Tim Burton counterpart had similar tricks up her hooker boots? (I was going to say "sleeve," but I like hooker boots more.) [hall_grin]
I definitely prefer "hooker boots" as well. [hall2_grin] And yes, I can see Angie using a bat henchman rather than a human one, particularly because it would easily be able to get into places where a human would have problems. Though I also like the idea of a potential human informant at Collinwood. In fact, wouldn't it have been fascinating if that informant had been Julia. We were told that there was some connection between Julia and Angie, but in the film as edited there isn't the slightest hint of it.
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I forgot to post that I absolutely love the quote Midnite chose for yesterday's installment of the slideshow:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1025DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'Yes, I killed Dr. Hoffman, and the workmen
and those very nice, unshaven young people. But know this:
With each life I take, a piece of my wretched soul dies. For I
only kill because I'm compelled to. Compelled by your
witchcraft. By your curse. Why have you done this to me?'
It's completely classic Barnabas.
And I also love the quote Midnite chose for tomorrow's installment - but I love it for other reasons. [hall2_wink]
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I can't speak to Angie's clothes because I honestly don't remember Colleen Atwood commenting on the look they chose for her (though, believe it or not, there are extras on the Blu-ray that I still haven't gotten around to watching, so there may be details in them) but so far as her make-up goes, I honestly do think that the intention was for it to be garish because it fits in completely with the fact that Angie's supposedly retained beauty in 1972 is very much a facade.
I hadn't thought about it until it was mentioned here but I am inclined to agree with you MB, as it was the first thing that came my mind when the subject came up. The only thing I found somewhat distracting was the very red lipstick, but now even that makes sense.
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What the BarnaDepp makeup makes me think of most is the Munster makeup used in the 1966 color film MUNSTERS, GO HOME, where makeup designs were used based on the Bud and Wally Westmore adaptations of the original Jack Pierce classic Universal monster designs.
The joke or "camp" in the movie was that those makeup designs were specifically meant for black and white shooting. Using them in a color film really made the family look like cartoon characters. On a related topic, there's actually footage on Youtube of a color Frankenstein monster makeup Jack Pierce devised, presumably when the notion of shooting SON OF FRANKENSTEIN (1939) in color was briefly considered and it's more subtle.
Depp's makeup would have worked much better in b&w. In color it looks very cheap and garish. And then there are the fingernails...
G.
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To me, the Depp Barnabas looked the way a vampire should look. He has all the attributes: pasty; lanky, and the long fingernails come right out of Stoker. Vampries aren't the hunks found in blech like Twilight. They are mobile corpses. My one complaint would be that he didn't look more atrophied when released from the coffin after 200 years, not having any blood. He should've looked like an extra from The Walking Dead. Once he fed, then he would take on a more "filled" appearance. I would imagine some emaciated ghoul, terrifying in appearance, coming out of that coffin. That would've been a nice shock. From stills I've seen of DS04, that's what the originally found Barnabas looked like.
Gerard
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Didn't he drink a bit of blood before we saw him?
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Green says of Angelique's "look" in the film's 'visual companion' that what they were going for was "the American dream"...
perfect, too perfect in fact, perfect makeup. red lips and platinum hair. "glamorous yet sophisticated"...
she also references famous actresses from the 1930s like Bette Davis and Marlene Dietrich(although i'm not seeing it)and describes the clothes as "70s with an 'edge' while the Collins family look more 'old fashioned' ".
I get what she's saying and what all of the supposed "references" were but the end result just looked contemporary. almost nothing about it said "1970s".
but in terms of the "garish" red lipstick and platinum hair it was supposed to symbolize some sort of distorted, overdone, almost grotesque vision of the "perfect American woman". it suggests visually, and of course we later see, that Angelique is just a "façade".
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Thanks for sharing that, michael c. [hall2_smiley] Believe it or not (although I'm sure everyone will believe it because I'm always behind), I haven't even gotten around to reading most of The Visual Companion. Though in my defense, at least when it comes to that book, last December I let a friend borrow it only a few days after it arrived, and I didn't get it back until months and months later.
And speaking of being behind on things, I was so busy at the end of last month that I forgot to post that I love the expressions on Barnabas' face when he sees Angie has a coffin at the ready -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1029DS2012_0a.jpg)
- and she chains him.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1029DS2012_0b.jpg)
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To me, the Depp Barnabas looked the way a vampire should look.
And apparently his look did nothing to suppress Barnabas' hotness. At least not for the people who compiled their list for ivillage.co.uk of the 17 hottest vampires in Hollywood history. [hall2_wink]
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Didn't he drink a bit of blood before we saw him?
He did. Though as I recall they did flirt with the idea of having Barnabas look desiccated when he's first released from the coffin, but for some reason they decided against it. I forget why - but I'm sure I'll come across the reason again one of these days.
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Another thing I love (and another thing I almost forgot to mention) occurs right after today's quote - and that would be the kiss Angie throws Barnabas just before she closes the lid of his coffin:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1102DS2012_0a.jpg)
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I loved the movie - the slide show makes me love it all the more.
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It's no secret that I love the panties sequences in the film. After all, one of them has been part of one of my avatars from almost the first moment we saw it in the trailer:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clip4.gif)
However, my favorite parts really have little to do with the actual panties - they're both parts of today's installment in the slideshow:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1106DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Barnabas: 'Never mind that.'
First off, Barnabas' quote is one of the quintessential avoidance replies in the DS universe. If someone isn't saying that to avoid explaining something, then they're certainly saying some variation of "I'll explain later." But what a surprise - since they only say those things to avoid answering, they rarely ever do explain later. [hall2_wink]
And secondly, I love that small piece of lace left behind at the corner of Barnabas' mouth. Too funny! [hall2_grin]
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the last couple days of slides really annoys me...
I enjoyed the movie for the most part but from the explosion of the cannery on it completely falls apart. a total mess. [hall2_angry]
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Willie gets some choice humorous moments throughout the film, but I think today's capture/quote is my favorite. After driving up to Collinwood's main entrance in a screech of tires, in response to Elizabeth asking him what on earth is happening, all he can respond is:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1110DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Willie: 'Fire. Murder. Angry mob. Run!'
And then run off is indeed what he does. [hall2_grin]
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It's interesting that Angie's face begins to crack simply from Barnabas' grasp.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1116DS2012_0a.jpg)
One does have to wonder why her spell or whatever it was that preserved her look of youth seemed to be that fragile. Though I suppose that with her standing in town, she never anticipated anyone would ever dare to grasp her in such a manner. ;)
And is it just me, or did Angie betray herself when she appeared for a bit to be enjoying Barnabas' bite more than she might have ever admitted?
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1116DS2012_0b.jpg)
And speaking of the bite, it's interesting that the script makes sure that the crowd of townspeople can't quite tell what went on between Barnabas and Angie by having one lady ask aloud: "What's that man done to Angie?" I suppose that was the film's way of conveying that if there was a sequel, despite bearing witness to the attack, the townspeople didn't realize what was actually going on or that Barnabas was indeed a vampire.
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I meant to mention a few days ago that Willie attempting to prevent Angie from entering Collinwood is certainly another one of his funnier moments -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1118DS2012_0a.jpg)
- particularly how Angie sends him flying with a simple wave of her hand.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1118DS2012_0b.jpg)
But the most fascinating thing is the reaction of the sheriff to witnessing it.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1118DS2012_0c.jpg)
And then he sends the crowd away, telling them there's nothing to see (and presumably also leaves himself because there's no hint of his presence outside later on). His reaction is definitely another interesting development that certainly raises more questions as to how what had transpired that night at Collinwood up to that point would have been dealt with in a potential sequel. Would Angie have gotten all the blame? Or might the sheriff have blamed it all on something like mass hysteria rather than believe his own eyes (definitely one of the original series' Roger's favorite excuses)? But I suppose we'll never know...
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The current exchange in the slideshow is one of my favorites in the film -
ANGIE:
'You should've loved me, Barnabas. None of this would have happened if you'd just loved me.'
BARNABAS:
'I should have destroyed you. You brought me nothing but misery.'
ANGIE:
'I gave you my heart!'
BARNABAS:
'You have no heart.'
- it's classic DS! And I do wonder if it might be some of the dialogue that Seth Grahame-Smith admitted to lifting word for word from John August's script because Grahame-Smith thought it was so good that there was no way he could improve upon it?
But as good as the exchange is, I honestly think that something about tomorrow's quote is perhaps one of the most insightful remarks in the entire film as well as in DS history...
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even after all this time Carolyn's "woof i'm a werewolf" reveal from today's slideshow in infuriates me...
the final ten cacophonous minutes nearly ruined the entire film for me. it's really just an exercise in marketing. not cohesive storytelling.
it's storytelling 101. you do not introduce plot in the final ten minutes of a movie unless your aim is to open the door to a possible sequel. I almost groaned at the "reveal" it was so cynical and so obvious. I don't think we even need to name the character that was being alluded to with this nonsense. and since it would appear no sequel is in the works it only served to muddy and confuse an already jumbled story.
I still can't believe they did it. [santa_angry]
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What bothered me the most about Carolyn was that there seemed to be no hint of anything, even with her family. Even if they didn't suspect her, presumably there would have been unexplained events in the past and that this would finally provide them with the explanation. But it seemed as though everything had been totally normal, yet here's this big secret of hers.
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Totally normal? Carolyn was the only character whose odd behavior didn't make sense to me. I chalked it up to teenage angst but was never really comfortable with that diagnosis. I can see where being a teenage werewolf might give one a bad attitude, lol.
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By totally normal, I meant within the context of the family. They clearly didn't suspect anything. I, too, assumed it was teenage angst. But, there's no indications that there were ever werewolf attacks in the area or anything, then suddenly she announces to the family that she is one. It just seems that there should have at least been a hint that such a creature was around.
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Carolyn was a minor character in the movie. it wasn't about her in any way shape or form. she was just part of the odd Collins family "atmosphere"...
making the "reveal" even more pointless because the character didn't factor heavily into the storyline anyways.
it was just about a sequel.
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I wouldn't say it was all about a sequel - it was more about keeping with how all the residents of Collinwood were supposed to have secrets. Unfortunately the whole secrets bit was downplayed in the final edit of the film (it's really a shame that in particular the whole exchange between Vicki and Julia dealing with secrets was cut), so the payoff to Carolyn's secret may seem to come out of left field - though there is at least one hint: the remark David makes in the first dining room scene about Carolyn making sounds in her room (and there would have been more if the scene between Carolyn and Vicki in Carolyn's room hadn't been cut). Though it's also true that David's remark is only significant in retrospect once Carolyn's secret comes out - it not like anyone would jump to the conclusion that she's a werewolf simply because of it. Though, because we'd been told prior to release that everyone at Collinwood would have secrets, it really didn't surprise me or seem out of place when it turned out that Carolyn was a werewolf because I'd been waiting to see just what her secret was.
As for werewolf attacks, I got the impression that Carolyn stayed in her room whenever she was a werewolf. And she's a werewolf unlike any other werewolf we've ever come across in the DS universe in that she retains the ability to speak and to grasp what's happening around her. That may be because she's only 14 in the film and thus her werewolf self may not be fully realized yet. Most werewolf stories don't have the cursed person making the complete change until reaching adulthood. But who knows?
But to get to what I really wanted to post about today, I really like how Carolyn throws in the "Woof" at the end of today's quote in the slideshow:
1972 - Carolyn: 'I'm a werewolf, okay? Let's not make a big deal out of it. Woof.'
Particularly how she tilts her head when she says it:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1203DS2012_0a.jpg)
It's perfectly in keeping with the sarcastic nature of Carolyn's personality. [santa_cheesy]
Also, and something that may only interest someone like me who's really into the sets and the production design, but it wasn't until I was taking captures from this scene that I noticed that there's a second fireplace in the foyer on the wall opposite the fireplace where Barnabas' portrait hangs:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/1203DS2012_0b.jpg)
But then, we see that wall so infrequently in the film.
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true. in retrospect there were a couple of "clues" about Carolyn. but it's rather irrelevant since the "reveal" didn't add or mean anything to the overall story. it didn't remotely factor into anything else that had happened in the previous 90 minutes other than an off-color remark made by a nine year old. and for 99.9% of the viewing public, who are not going to review the DVD ad nauseum looking for "clues", it was totally out of left field and pointless...
I forget where we first heard that everyone in the house harbored a dark "secret"? because it really didn't turn out to be true. Elizabeth, Roger and David really didn't have any "secrets" unless you count Roger stealing people's wallets at a party. there were certain pre-release rumors that have taken on a life of their own(the "secrets", Elizabeth being a "recluse", etc.)and become a strange "truth" even though nothing that happened onscreen actually bear them out.
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Well, David's secret was that it wasn't just his imagination that he sees his mother and talks to her because that turned out to be real. Of all the supposed secrets harbored by the residents of Collinwood, that one was the most fully realized. Though as you say, whatever the secrets were supposed to be for Roger and Elizabeth, they pretty much remain secret because as the film stands we only get the barest of clues, like possibly Elizabeth's reaction to Carolyn performing the intro to Alice Cooper's "The Ballard of Dwight Fry" and possibly Roger extreme fidgitiness whenever the subject of his dead wife comes up. Though with regard to David's remark about Carolyn being significant in retrospect, one didn't need to review the DVD/Blu-ray of the film to hit on that because we discussed it here on the forum (in the "Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!" topic) long before the DVD/Blu-ray was released. [santa_smiley]
As for where we learned about the supposed secrets, if it had just been reported on the typical horror Internet sites, then it would have been something that we certainly could have taken with a grain of salt. But it was mentioned by several sources, including reputable print sources, and chiefly in WB's own Official Press Release for the film. Though, of course, that press release came out before most of the film was even shot much less edited, so in all likelihood it was based on info that was in the script rather than the finished film - and we know that so much of what was shot, particularly with regard to Roger's character, was left on the cutting room floor. [santa_sad]
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since David was open and above boards about his communications with his mother from his opening scene I didn't consider it a "secret"...
in terms of Carolyn "hints", "clues", whatever I still found it unforgivably stupid.
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since David was open and above boards about his communications with his mother from his opening scene I didn't consider it a "secret"...
Well, of course we're wise to the ways of DS [santa_wink] - but at the outset at least the audience is supposed to follow Liz and Roger's belief that David is very troubled, Carolyn's opinion that he's nuts, and Julia's assessment that David has a psychosis in which he believes his mother has some sort of cyclical immortality (all of which Julia finds fascinating). But David's "secret" is that everything he claims about his mother really is true. [santa_smiley] For most of the film, the only people who are possibly willing to believe that might be true are Barnabas and Vicki. Though, of course, both of them have good reason to possibly believe it. [santa_wink]
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and...
if the structure of the narrative demanded that everyone in the house harbor a dark "secret" then Carolyn's could have been anything. in fact it could, and should, have been something that tied her more closely to the storyline as a whole. not remove her from it. she could have been a vampire herself. she could have been an apprentice sorceress under the tutelage of Angelique.
but c'mon. making her a werewolf of all things??? in the context of the storyline at hand it was completely random. but in the context of the DS universe that means one very, very, very specific thing. and that thing of course is............................................
QUENTIN
more specifically here a future hoped for sequel featuring the other member of the bobble head duo. as it stood some fans had their panties in a bunch he wasn't in this movie(as if it would have made any sense).
so I still think it was just a very cynical ploy to open the door to a sequel about him. one, again, that does not appear to be in the works. so to me it just added to the mess that was the film's "climactic scene".
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I totally missed Julia's dialogue about David's beliefs about Laura, beyond that he was more or less obsessed with her (which seems completely understandable given she was his Mother and she was dead), and I also missed the fact that Barnabas and Vicki took seriously David's stories about Laura. In fact , I don't even really Laura being mentioned except very briefly in the scenes of Vicki's arrival.
But then, I only ever saw it once... A LOT MORE was said and done in the final 10 minutes than I realized... judging from the recent images and quotes.
Carolyn turning out to be a werewolf somehow seems to fit the kooky/ooky Addams/Munsters tone of the publicity and at least some of the material... I didn't really react one way or the other. It seemed to be presented in a very throwaway fashion.
G.
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Does Depp's Barnyboo makeup include a fake nose? We've already discussed the fake fingers, fingernails, ears and hair. Looking at the screenshot that I think is about to switch, it suddenly occurred to me that his nose had been at the very least embellished.
I really wonder how long it took every day for Depp's transformation into Barn--I am guessing a minimum of two hours. More likely closer to three.
G.
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I'm quite baffled about what's going on in this slide show at this point. If I remember correctly, what we've seen over the last couple of days is the result of Angie being zapped by Laura's ghost (who I thought had at least some dialogue, but apparently not). The backdrop looks as if they're standing in Collinwood's own answer to the Crystal Palace (a fancy of Grandmamama Edith's in this version perhaps?) but I assume it is just an area of the Collinwood-on-fire set.
Is that weird thing on Angie's shoulder a tattoo the actress bears in real life, or a sign of the "cracking," or a result of Barn having attacked her? I can't recall.
G.
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I'm going to have to take a look at the 2012 movie again to get a clearer look at the scene for today's pic. I'm sure it's just the afghan on a sofa, but it looks like there's a big dog waiting for Vicki to pet it!
Oh, and yesterday or the day before showed Liz at the piano. I laugh every time I watch that scene--I just *love* how Liz, after having noticed the dust on her fingers, puts even *more* of her hand on the piano, and then offers that same hand to shake Vicki's! What a hoot!
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I'm going to have to take a look at the 2012 movie again to get a clearer look at the scene for today's pic. I'm sure it's just the afghan on a sofa, but it looks like there's a big dog waiting for Vicki to pet it!
Wow, I never noticed that before you pointed it out, but it really does give the impression that there's a dog there:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0210DS2012_0.jpg)
The space between the pillows even gives the impression of the dog's leg and that its paw is on the pillow! What it mostly is, though, is simply the curve of the back of the couch. But talk about an optical illusion! [snow_cheesy]
Oh, and yesterday or the day before showed Liz at the piano. I laugh every time I watch that scene--I just *love* how Liz, after having noticed the dust on her fingers, puts even *more* of her hand on the piano, and then offers that same hand to shake Vicki's! What a hoot!
Yes, indeed! [snow_laugh]
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Regarding today's image ("I was gonna scare you..."), that was an absolutely amazing bit in the movie. The writing, acting, directing, and editing came together beautifully to show how Vicki and David instantly bond in that moment. (Finally, David has someone on his side!) What a shame that that was pretty much the extent of their relationship as far as what appeared in the final film...
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Yes, that was a shame, KMR. [snow_sad] We know that Vicki told Barnabas that David idolized him and that she could hardly get David to talk about anything other than Barnabas - but we never saw any of that. But then, Seth Grahame-Smith did tell us that practically the entire Barnabas/David subplot ended up on the cutting room floor. And apparently at some point it was decided that Vicki would barely be seen talking to anyone other than Barnabas because she also had scenes with Carolyn and Julia cut. (Though we also know that she even had at least one scene with Barnabas cut.)
I still say that if we can believe Seth Grahame-Smith that so many scenes ended up on the cutting room that they could have probably put together an entire other film from them, then apparently the script was just too ambitious for its own good. Well, at least for a film that would ultimately end up with a running time of under two hours...
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remember on the OS after 1795, when monsters abruptly became the main characters, Vicki and David never shared another scene again except maybe one or two when the Quentin storyline was launched...
that what Vicki and David's relationship reminded me of in the film. Vicki coming to Collinwood under the premise of becoming David's governess was just the setup for getting her into the story and a nod to OS mythology. but regardless of scenes cut or not cut I don't think that relationship was ever intended to be heavily developed in the film. it decidedly was not "about that".
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I still say that if we can believe Seth Grahame-Smith that so many scenes ended up on the cutting room that they could have probably put together an entire other film from them, then apparently the script was just too ambitious for its own good. Well, at least for a film that would ultimately end up with a running time of under two hours...
I have a hunch that a 3.5 or 4 hour cut of the movie would end up being something truly breathtaking and wonderful that would more closely attain Tim Burton's goal of being a tribute to (or reverie on) the original series. But sadly we'll probably never see such a thing. [snow_cry]
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Today's image and caption are a real scream. I totally don't recall "Barnabas Collins III" from my one viewing but that's hardly surprising.
I find myself thinking of Thurston Howell III and Depp playing the role ten years down the line in panda eye and clown white makeup...lol!
G.
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Love today's shot of HBC. Maybe some day I'll get to see this one deleted scene between Liz and Julia. I think it is the only one that has been made available. Who knows if more was shot.
The two are for me the only redeeming element in this thing... well, I also liked Magtoria on the train as Nights in White Satin played...
G.
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I know I already said this last year, BUT I REALLY LOVE this screen capture of Helena Bonham Carter!!
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0622DS2012_0.jpg)
And like I said last year:It was already clear in deleted scene #59 between Liz and Julia that Julia wasn't buying what Liz was selling when it came to Barnabas - but in this scene (which is the first of its kind to actually be in the film) it's even clearer that Julia isn't swallowing any of the cover story about Barnabas. [ghost_wink]
It's all just so fantastic to watch!
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I don't recall today's HBC dialogue snippet from the deleted scenes in Depp Shadows. I really wish I could just see the deleted scenes with HBC. I have no desire to see any of the rest of it again, ever.
G.
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I finally saw the movie on TV and hated it. Rarely have I been so glad that I didn't pay money to see a film. Sorry, guys, but it was just awful.
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DarkLady I totally agree. I did enjoy HBC's campy performance. She seemed to just hit the right note for what she was given to do. It seems as if a lot of her material was cut in favor of Depp's excruciating pratfalls and mugging.
G.
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I don't recall today's HBC dialogue snippet from the deleted scenes in Depp Shadows. I really wish I could just see the deleted scenes with HBC.
As you wish, G. Here's that scene between Victoria and Julia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp68NYVBESY
And the deleted scene between Liz and Julia (macraméing and drinking, respectively):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TatT2zPKDs
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Ack, I finally found the original Forum post with the link to all the deleted scenes:
Comic Book Movie has posted 5 deleted scenes!
Thanks for your help with the search criteria, MB. [ghost_smiley]
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Those scenes are a riot, particularly Pfeiffer/HBC. Thanks so much Midnite!
G.
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GKFilms twitter account just tweeted this:
@gkfilms 3 minutes ago
Happy 78th Birthday @PinewoodStudios! #DarkShadows
http://t.co/NIUzq4kilN/s/y2_K
And clicking the link will also bring up a still of Barnabas at the dining room table (complete with waffle in his plate) as he greets the family.
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In today's shot from the movie, is that Naomi's portrait weeping tears of blood behind BarnaDepp? That's actually pretty cool.
G.
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Once again I have to say that the dining room scene in which Vicki meets the rest of the household for the first time is one of my all-time favorite scenes in the Depp/DS film. And today's installment in the slideshow is without a doubt one of the best moments in it:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0217DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'You're a liar. I can tell, you know. Just from a
person's face. Yours says: "I might look sweet and innocent,
but I have secrets. Secrets that'll make the hairs on your
arms stand straight up."'
It still fascinates me that even though Julia doesn't know that Vicki is masquerading under an assumed name, (not to mention all the other secrets/tragedies in her past that even the audience isn't privy to yet), Julia seems to have Vicki's number right from the get-go. And Helena Bonham Carter plays it all beautifully.
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Have I mentioned how much I love Love LOVE Helena Bonham Carter in the current scene in this slideshow:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0624DS2012_0.jpg)
Well, even if so, I can never say it enough!! [ghost_nowink]
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[pointing-up] Exactly!! And it's BAAAACK!! [thumbleft]
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0622DS2012_0.jpg)
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One of my favorite exchanges in the film occurs in another one of my favorite scenes with yesterday's and today's installments in the slideshow:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0702DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Elizabeth: 'I was protecting the children.'
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0703DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Julia: 'Oh, by letting a vampire use one of the
guest bedrooms?'
I LOVE IT!! [lghy] [thumb]
And it really is a shame that there aren't more Liz/Julia scenes in the film! And of course, it's also a real shame that deleted scene between them ended up on the cutting room floor. One might almost think the spirit of DC somehow possessed both Burton and editor Chris Lebenzon to make sure such character oriented scenes were cut. ::) But at least that deleted scene does show up on the Blu-ray as an extra...
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I love this comeback from Liz in the same scene -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2012moviequoteimages/0708DS2012_0.jpg)
1972 - Elizabeth: 'Then be fascinated, Julia. And if you have
an ounce of love or respect for this family, keep your
mouth shut.'
Usually in the film it's Julia lobbing comebacks at Liz, but that is a great one from Liz to Julia - and I love the expression on Michelle Pfeiffer's face as she delivers it...
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Hopefully, one of these days, more footage will surface. These bits are very tantalizing. I can only imagine what is stored in some vault at Warner Brothers.