Vicki's Mother

[IluvBarnabas]

Elizabeth was Vicki's mama. I will never believe otherwise.

[quentincollins]

I read that the resemblance between JB and AM was part of the reason they cast AM as Vicki. JB said she played the story as if she were Vicki's mother, and watching the early episodes it seems pretty obvious that Liz is Vicki's mother. And Return to Collinwood confirms it. So does the DS novel Dreams of the Dark, in an unspoken manner.
As far as I'm concerned Liz is Vicki's mother. I hope that the Big Finsih audio plays bring AM back as Vicki and do more with that story, giving us more details as to why she gave Vicki away, who her father is, etc.
Who do you guy sthink her father is? I've read fan fiction that had her father be Petofi (in Aristed's youthful body) and Judah Zachery thru possession of somebody. Jason McGuire would be an interesting choice, and he did tease Vicki that he knew something about her origins...
Sam Evans would be a nice choice, as it would make Vicki and Maggie half-sisters. I do rather like that option.

[Janet the Wicked]

I believe Jason taunted Vicki about her past because he knew that poisonous barb would hurt her. He probably knew nothing.
The idea that Liz would have messed around with the butler doesn't jibe with me. I like the thing about the soldier. That would make more sense than anything else.  Then again, you never know...

[madscntst]

I don't like the idea of Jason being the father because he had absolutely NO chemistry with Liz- not even any hint or any flicker of something from the past.  Which worked perfectly in the storyline, because it made Jason's moves to marry Liz all the more repulsive!  A soldier would surely be a sweet story.  I don't really have any other good ideas, but I'd like to think it was someone Liz loved, but for whatever reason, it was a forbidden or impossible relationship.

Cathy

[Joy Collins]

EmeraldRose, I'd actually planned to make a post to this effect but you beat me to it. Great minds think alike.

I vote yes - I definitely believe that Vicki was Elizabeth's illegitimate daughter!

Jason McGuire would be an interesting choice, and he did tease Vicki that he knew something about her origins...

My theory is that Jason is indeed her father!
I know which scene you're talking about, and it's the one that made me think about the possibility. I haven't believed otherwise since.t's actually something I've thought a lot about (because I have no life).

Although, before that, I did seriously consider the idea of Bill Malloy being her father.

I didn't know that Return to Collinwood confirmed Elizabeth as Victoria's mother! Do they go into any details?

[Janet the Wicked]

Jason her father??? No. No, I say. you actualy think that Liz would have woo-hooed with Jason?

[quentincollins]

I thought Jason had great sexual chemistry with Liz, in a wrong dirty sort of way. Ironicly, I didn't find any chemistry between Paul and Liz, but Liz was [spoiler]a Leviathon pawn then so she wasn't really herself.[/spoiler] I think Jason was probably just being hurtful to Vicki, but maybe he remembered his time with Liz and noted the close relationship between Liz and Vicki and figured there was a chance that she was his.
If somebody can put this in a spoiler box I'd appreciate it, I have no idea how to do that.
Return to Collinwood has [spoiler]the reading of Liz's will, in which she reveals that she was Vicki's mother. It doesn't give any details about her father or why she gave her up, but does discuss a little of Liz's feelings in bringing Vicki to Collinwood, her intentions toward Vicki then of making her part of the family and why Liz never told the truth. Nancy Barrett does a great job reacting to the news. Sadly, Vicki isn't present in the story though, so Carolyn's reaction is the center of that scene, but NB knocks that scene out of the park.[/spoiler] I really recommend RtC , and the newer Big Finish cds, they are a great continuation of DS.

[Joy Collins]

Jason her father??? No. No, I say. you actualy think that Liz would have woo-hooed with Jason?

I like your term for it! Makes me think of the Sims 2. But, anyway, back on subject...

I believe it's possible, under the right circumstances. From what we hear about Liz and Paul's marriage, we can assume that it wasn't a very happy one. Jason was always hanging around Collinwood with Paul, and he's a great con artist, so he could probably talk her into just about anything and then make her think it was all her idea. Especially if he took advantage of a particularly dark moment for her, say, after a huge fight with Paul - she's depressed, confused, possibly dipping into the brandy... I think it could happen. And Jason was probably pretty charming, albeit slimy, in his younger years.

Besides, everyone makes mistakes. Elizabeth is, obviously, no exception.

Now, I'm by no means 100% committed to the specifics here. It's just offer it as a possible scenario.

I thought Jason had great sexual chemistry with Liz, in a wrong dirty sort of way.

I saw that too, which is something else that lends to my theory.
And thank you so much for your response about Return to Collinwood! I've been meaning to check it out, but now I want to even more!

[Midnite]

For instructions on inserting spoilers, check out the 1st post of the topic mentioned in the Board News line atop any page.  Hope that helped.

[Nelson Collins]

I never got that vibe from Jason.  It was all about money with him, when he was on the show and when he was hanging with Paul back in the day.  Even Paul just married her for the money I thought  [spoiler]I haven't seen his return in the Leviathan story yet[/spoiler]

Personally, I do think Liz was the baby mama  , but as for the father, I think I favor the Charles Delaware Troll version, if not specifically, then in general:
[spoiler]Liz fell in love and got in trouble and Jamison to safeguard the reputation and the family name, forced Liz to give up the baby arranged for its care and greased a lot of palms to hush it up and change/destroy any records.[/spoiler]

[Joy Collins]

[spoiler]I haven't seen his return in the Leviathan story yet[/spoiler]

[spoiler]You really can't go by his return during the Leviathan storyline. They took away much of the intrigue about him. And they committed some rather obvious inconsistencies: We heard it enough to know that Paul "left" Elizabeth eighteen years ago from 1966/67, making Carolyn a baby at the time. Yet when the Leviathans conjure up a "ghost" of Carolyn supposedly just as she looked the last time Paul saw her before he left, we get a girl about Amy's age. [/spoiler]

[michael c]

my reasons for not going for the liz-is-vicki's-mother theory are long and myriad.

but one of the main ones is simply this.this was never actually spelled out for us in specifics on the show itself.

for me only what actually happened on the original series between 1966 and 1971 is "cannon".anything else is just speculation or reinterpretation.it's not "real" if real is a word that can accurately be used to describe a completely fictitious situation.

yes the "return to collinwood" presentation "confirmed" that liz was vicki's mother but that was simply an amusing production written around the actors who were present at this event.if i recall it also had carolyn marrying ned stuart which is hardly cannon as far as i'm concerned.

this production also varies widely from what is supposed to have happened to these people from other "official" continuations of the series like the 'big finish' audiodramas and lara parkers books.they all tell different stories so what is actually "real"?

and yes in later years both joan bennett and alexandra isles "confirmed" this as well because it's the fan favorite but in truth neither of them actually "know" this to be a fact because this mystery was never actually solved on the series.it was never written into the scripts.the storyline was abandoned.

so to me this isn't "officially" part of the d.s. lore.

[Philippe Cordier]

and yes in later years both joan bennett and alexandra isles "confirmed" this as well because it's the fan favorite but in truth neither of them actually "know" this to be a fact because this mystery was never actually solved on the series.it was never written into the scripts.the storyline was abandoned.

It definitely isn't my favorite, so if that was indeed a factor in popularizing this popular concept, I think that's regrettable.

I thought Elizabeth treated Victoria more as if she might know something about who she really is but not as her own secret daughter.  Having looked closely at the evidence at one time, I don't think this was the writers' original intent.  At least, a strong case (in my view, a stronger case) can be made in support of other possibilities.   In particular, I think DS writer Francis Swann had a completely different take on the situation based on his early scripts.  But he left the show and the mystery was eventually allowed to fade into the carpet.

[michael c]

i agree philippe...

as written it appeared that liz knew much more about vicki's origins than she let on but was not herself vicki's mother.that's what i read into it.

but we'll never know will we?

[Cassandra Blair]

You know, I was just watching a pre-Barnabas episode the other night. It was during the Bill Malloy murder mystery, and Elizabeth was very upset with Victoria for supposedly abandoning her duties as governess. Liz was so upset she even mentioned to Carolyn that she was going to fire Victoria.

This just doesn't strike me as the actions of a long-lost mother who has finally reunited with her secret daughter. I agree with those who say the writing of the earlier episodes tends more towards Elizabeth not being Victoria's mother, but knowing a good deal about the girl's origins.

Emotionally I'm very attracted to the idea of Elizabeth as Vicki's mother, but intellectually, I just can't make that leap, despite Joan Bennett's belief in the relationship. Clues in the early episodes just seem to point elsewhere (like the Betty Hanscomb portrait), though I still believe Victoria almost HAD to have some relationship to the Collins family, and that Elizabeth was the one behind those monthly checks to the foundling home. So count me as one of the few undecided voters.