Author Topic: Shadowgram Update #154  (Read 6597 times)

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Offline Nancy

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2006, 10:54:52 PM »
It is interesting the ban has gone into effect.  I don't know the reason given.  But I would like to point out one thing: videotaping and then selling videotapes (as a fan attending the fest) can easily be seen as a violation of union rules.  In AFTRA, which all DS actors have to be a member of whether still active or not, there has to be an agreement/contract in place if the material being sold is getting sold because certain actors appear on it.  That wouldn't even be a question of whether or not the actors object to being videotaped or not, it's a union rule and something they would not necessarily have a whole lot to say about it.  The union rules involve a payment of some kind generally.  I don't know the arrangement the DSF has with the actors and the union or MPI for that matter but there is more about rules and payments involved than the average fan would have reason to know.

Nancy

I don't believe for ONE MINUTE that the stars object.  (unless Johnny Karlen got wind that his pratfall off the stage in Tarrytown is out there.   >:D)  But seriously, I can understand if, for example, Nancy Barret is concerned about her cabaret act getting sold and she were to get sued for singing songs she doesn't own the rights too etc...or if MPI/DCP doesn't want the recreations of the first and last episodes being sold because they own the rights to the show itself.  Hell, I can even buy if Jamison Selby didn't want Return To Collinwood sold (although WHY anyone would want that pile of dog doo I don't know).  But to say fans can't film the Q&A's, Cast Reunion, Charity Auction--basically none of the stuff that's "copywrited" is beyond BS.  They should let ppl film that stuff, then have ppl take their camera's out of the main room for Nancy's cabaret and any of the dramatic readings like they used to do for Jonathan's Reader's Theater.  It's NEVER been an issue until this year about filming the panels etc...

I think you are on to something about MPI wanting to, ONCE AGAIN, exploit the fans for money (big surprise there right?   >:(  They are just greedy bastards.   >:(

Offline Nancy

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2006, 10:58:49 PM »
It could be because some fans do, in fact, sell things they should not so a more blanket rule has gone into effect.  That's another possibility. I know that Nancy Barrett was very upset that a fan was selling copies of her cabaret show.  She didn't tell me who it was but then I heard other actors had a similar problem when they performed at the fests.  It's not just a copyright issue but selling videotape of actors either performing or doing a panel discussion can turn into a union issue.  Maybe there has been more going on in this way than we know hence the crack down.

Nancy

My dad also taped the festivals for about 15 years.  He was allowed to tape things such as Nancy Barrett's carbaret if he gave her a copy and didn't sell it.  I can only assume that MPI will have something to do with this.

Offline BuzzH

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Re: RE: the stars object
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2006, 12:36:57 AM »
The DS actors are easy enough to talk to at the Fest.
Just ask them if they object.
If enough say no, call Pierson on his BS.

Yeah, like they did when he was gonna stop the Fest's.  A fan asked the stars about it at the cast reunion and KLS pulled Jim onstage and basically ripped him a new one, w/a smile on her face of course.   ;D
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Offline BuzzH

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2006, 12:39:19 AM »
I don't think anyone has the equipment available to them Dave did though I could be wrong.

Guy Haines has Jim's permission to tape.
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Offline BuzzH

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 01:54:02 AM »
But I would like to point out one thing: videotaping and then selling videotapes (as a fan attending the fest) can easily be seen as a violation of union rules.  In AFTRA, which all DS actors have to be a member of whether still active or not, there has to be an agreement/contract in place if the material being sold is getting sold because certain actors appear on it.  That wouldn't even be a question of whether or not the actors object to being videotaped or not, it's a union rule and something they would not necessarily have a whole lot to say about it.  The union rules involve a payment of some kind generally.  I don't know the arrangement the DSF has with the actors and the union or MPI for that matter but there is more about rules and payments involved than the average fan would have reason to know.

Nope, sorry, not buyin' it.  Seems to me that SAG and AFTRA would be more upset by the fact that the stars are NOT PAID to appear at the Fests (which is why, to quote the Festival flyer, "Appearances subject to professional commitments") or for any of the performing they do than if fans are selling videos of Q&A sessions.  Give me a break!   ::)  Add to this the fact that ppl have been filming Fests and ShadowCons for almost 30 years?  Puhleez!  Probably 95% of all filming is for personal use.  Not many ppl sell, in fact, I only know of one who did.  If what you say were true, aside from the fact that all of them would be in trouble for not insisting on being paid for any involvement w/the Festivals, the unions would go after ALL the paparazzi who film stars at premieres and awards shows and on the street.   ::)  Ban ALL filming of ALL performances, but let fans film the Q&A, Cast Reunion etc...
Buzz-isms:

"I like the bike I got, & the chick I got!"
"I know just the place!?Over in Logansport!"
"If ya feel it, SIT it!"
"Come on, before he offers me a side car too!"
"Her nose needed some powder!"
"You askin' me to give up something I like?"

Offline joe integlia

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 02:48:50 AM »
it will be good if they release enough of the events. most conventions i made available contained apx. 8hrs of footage and that was after editing!

Offline joe integlia

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 03:13:10 AM »
here in hollywood, major movie stars get their stars placed on hollywood blvd and get footprints in cement at the chinese theatre. the public is invited to attend and no restrictions are made for videotaping or photographing these events. theres no way of knowing whos doing it for personal use and whos doing it with the idea of selling the pictures/photos later. i see shops along the blvd selling candid paparazzi like pictures of celebrities. i think if they are at a public event or out in public theres no rules/laws about photographing or videotaping them and selling the material. i think the problem at the conventions is that they mix performances and q+a/ panels etc together in the same day. so everybodys got their camcorders set up to tape the q+a and then next is nancys cabaret or the stage play etc. jim comes out and says no videotaping of the performances but always somebody tries it anyway. some are asked to stop and some get away with it or they say they didnt hear the announcement. maybe all the performances can be done in 1 day and video cameras can be banned for that 1 day and they can have people checking at the door for cameras and the rest of the convention can be all q+a and skits and panels etc that could be photograhed and videotaped with no problem.

Offline petofi

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 03:37:23 AM »
Since this is the 40th, I think it might be reasonable to assume that a DVD is in the offing -

as to "union rules," does anyone know if this "banning" is a precedent, or have they ever done it at, say, a Trek convention? And if so, for what reason? A gathering of fans and former stars of an older tv show doesn't strike me as a "performance" under standard union rules - nor is the organization under which the fests are organized considered a "union house" under which AFTRA or SAG rules would normally be considered in force (although IATSE rules may be in effect in certain venues for purposes of the union technical support which might be needed to mount an event).  

In the case of a live performance of, say, a copyrighted script using AEA stage actors(actors equity), it is customary not to film or photograph without union, copyright holder or production company permission.  The creator or writer may make this request solely, as well.  However, if union rules were to be in force in a situation like the fest (highly doubtful), then the "performers" or guests would be owed union scale fees, at the least.  There would be contracts, etc to sign.  Being a SAG or AFTRA or AEA performer does protect you in terms of fair use of a performance(getting paid, etc.) - but I haven't heard of the definition of performances being extended to autograph lines, informal panels (talk shows do pay scale to union performers) or Q & A's.  It would certainly not apply to unrehearsed interaction between fans and guests or fan "performances" and costume parades.

I think more information is needed on the whys and wherefores of this particular situation before drawing conclusions, but, left to guesses, its probably about exclusivity for a later DVD release, or an attempt to protect a few segments of the program or both.  In any case, union involvement is unlikely - intellectual property or copyright concerns would be a little more plausable.


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Offline BuzzH

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2006, 01:32:05 PM »
here in hollywood, major movie stars get their stars placed on hollywood blvd and get footprints in cement at the chinese theatre. the public is invited to attend and no restrictions are made for videotaping or photographing these events. theres no way of knowing whos doing it for personal use and whos doing it with the idea of selling the pictures/photos later. i see shops along the blvd selling candid paparazzi like pictures of celebrities. i think if they are at a public event or out in public theres no rules/laws about photographing or videotaping them and selling the material. i think the problem at the conventions is that they mix performances and q+a/ panels etc together in the same day. so everybodys got their camcorders set up to tape the q+a and then next is nancys cabaret or the stage play etc. jim comes out and says no videotaping of the performances but always somebody tries it anyway. some are asked to stop and some get away with it or they say they didnt hear the announcement. maybe all the performances can be done in 1 day and video cameras can be banned for that 1 day and they can have people checking at the door for cameras and the rest of the convention can be all q+a and skits and panels etc that could be photograhed and videotaped with no problem.

as to "union rules," does anyone know if this "banning" is a precedent, or have they ever done it at, say, a Trek convention? And if so, for what reason? A gathering of fans and former stars of an older tv show doesn't strike me as a "performance" under standard union rules - nor is the organization under which the fests are organized considered a "union house" under which AFTRA or SAG rules would normally be considered in force (although IATSE rules may be in effect in certain venues for purposes of the union technical support which might be needed to mount an event).

In the case of a live performance of, say, a copyrighted script using AEA stage actors(actors equity), it is customary not to film or photograph without union, copyright holder or production company permission.  The creator or writer may make this request solely, as well.  However, if union rules were to be in force in a situation like the fest (highly doubtful), then the "performers" or guests would be owed union scale fees, at the least.  There would be contracts, etc to sign.  Being a SAG or AFTRA or AEA performer does protect you in terms of fair use of a performance(getting paid, etc.) - but I haven't heard of the definition of performances being extended to autograph lines, informal panels (talk shows do pay scale to union performers) or Q & A's.  It would certainly not apply to unrehearsed interaction between fans and guests or fan "performances" and costume parades.

Amen brothers!  What I've saying.  There's NO WAY any actor's union is objecting to videotaping at the Fests!  If that WAS a concern, cameras, except for ppl like Guy Haines and Dave Brown, Fest Committee members both, would have been banned a LONG TIME AGO!  It's the performances they don't want taped and I have NO PROBLEM w/them telling ppl not to tape.  What they should do to avoid anyone who shouldn't tape from sneaking it anyway is close the room prior to ANY performance like the used to do for Frid's Reader's Theater and clear everyone out for say 30-60 mintues.  Tell everyone then to take their video equipment back to their rooms and when ppl come back, make sure no one has a video camera like they do at Broadway shows (although anyone w/a micro camera WILL get away w/it, but if the Fest ppl do what they reasonably can to avoid unauthorized taping they would not be liable if someone had said micro camera).  Another way to avoid stars worrying about getting sued is to either sing original songs, or here's an idea...GET PERMISSION from the licensee of the songs.  Can't be THAT difficult I wouldn't imagine.  But I digress...
Buzz-isms:

"I like the bike I got, & the chick I got!"
"I know just the place!?Over in Logansport!"
"If ya feel it, SIT it!"
"Come on, before he offers me a side car too!"
"Her nose needed some powder!"
"You askin' me to give up something I like?"

Offline Nancy

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2006, 11:15:01 PM »
As I said, I don't know what the reason is for the ban.  I'm just speculating on the possible reasons like everyone else.

Nancy

Nope, sorry, not buyin' it.  Seems to me that SAG and AFTRA would be more upset by the fact that the stars are NOT PAID to appear at the Fests (which is why, to quote the Festival flyer, "Appearances subject to professional commitments") or for any of the performing they do than if fans are selling videos of Q&A sessions.  Give me a break!   ::)  Add to this the fact that ppl have been filming Fests and ShadowCons for almost 30 years?  Puhleez!  Probably 95% of all filming is for personal use.  Not many ppl sell, in fact, I only know of one who did.  If what you say were true, aside from the fact that all of them would be in trouble for not insisting on being paid for any involvement w/the Festivals, the unions would go after ALL the paparazzi who film stars at premieres and awards shows and on the street.   ::)  Ban ALL filming of ALL performances, but let fans film the Q&A, Cast Reunion etc...

Offline Nancy

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2006, 11:23:57 PM »
Seems to me that SAG and AFTRA would be more upset by the fact that the stars are NOT PAID to appear at the Fests (which is why, to quote the Festival flyer, "Appearances subject to professional commitments") or for any of the performing they do than if fans are selling videos of Q&A sessions.  Give me a break!   ::)

SAG and AFTRA doesn't cover stage work so, no, they would not be concerned.  That would fall under AEA.  There are also waivers producing organizations can obtain. I don't know how the fest works that out or if it does at all.

Quote
Add to this the fact that ppl have been filming Fests and ShadowCons for almost 30 years?  Puhleez!  Probably 95% of all filming is for personal use.  Not many ppl sell, in fact, I only know of one who did.

I agree - why now? Which is why if I had to pick a possible reason as being most likely it is because MPI wants/needs more bonus material for the DVDs.  It would be nice a reason were given for the ban because, as you pointed out, the videotaping of events has gone on since the fests started.

Quote
If what you say were true, aside from the fact that all of them would be in trouble for not insisting on being paid for any involvement w/the Festivals, the unions would go after ALL the paparazzi who film stars at premieres and awards shows and on the street.   ::)

No, Buzz - one has nothing to do with the other.  ;)  The unions do not have any jurisdiction over the photos taken of actors famous, not famous, wish they were famous, or used to be famous.

My hunch is that the now "banned" material is going to show up on an MPI DVD in the near future.  I don't know what else the reason could be though nothing would surprise me anymore. ;D

Nancy

Offline Sunny_Collins

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2006, 11:35:09 PM »
wow! Wouldn't it be great to own that portrait of Barnabas!" :)
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Offline Raineypark

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2006, 01:13:57 AM »
wow! Wouldn't it be great to own that portrait of Barnabas!" :)

It would certainly be unusual....but my husband would never stand for that painting hanging  in our house, and I know of at least one other husband around here who wouldn't either...... ;)
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Offline jennifer

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2006, 03:13:41 PM »
wow! Wouldn't it be great to own that portrait of Barnabas!" :)
It would certainly be unusual....but my husband would never stand for that painting hanging  in our house, and I know of at least one other husband around here who wouldn't either...... ;)

sometimes i think my husband would not even notice but since it would replace
my children's portrait let's hope ::)

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Offline CyrusL

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Re: Shadowgram Update #154
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2006, 09:02:23 PM »
It would certainly be unusual....but my husband would never stand for that painting hanging  in our house, and I know of at least one other husband around here who wouldn't either...... ;)

Not to be boastful, but I am glad to have married another Dark Shadows fan, as Diane and I did hang a portrait of Barnabas above our fireplace in the den. Its the one that was by the company that did the early 90's gim cards, and pretty nice if not an exact replica of the show's. I told her I would however one day replace it when I can afford to have her portrait painted as Josette like the one from the Old House.  ;D
      The Angeique PT portrait reproduction btw hangs in one of our hallways as well

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