The Relationship Between Joshua and Barnabas

[VictoriaWintersRox]

Some Possible Spoilers for the 1795 Storyline:

[spoiler]According to Angelique's curse on Barnabas, all the people he loves and the people that love him will die. Most of the Collins family ends up dying (Naomi, Sarah who loved him). Yet, Joshua survives. Does that mean he didn't love his son Barnabas or that Barnabas didn't love him? To me it seems that they reconciled pretty much before Barnabas died.[/spoiler]

[Luciaphile]

Spoilers

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According to Angelique's curse on Barnabas, all the people he loves and the people that love him will die. Most of the Collins family ends up dying (Naomi, Sarah who loved him). Yet, Joshua survives. Does that mean he didn't love his son Barnabas or that Barnabas didn't love him? To me it seems that they reconciled pretty much before Barnabas died.

I always thought the so-called curse was a crock.  A "psych" strategy more than anything else.  Any number of people (Joshua, Ben, Julia, Elizabeth, etc.) who feel some kind of love for Barnabas survive just fine.  Barnabas may think he's like the plant in "Rappacini's Daughter," but I'm not buying.

Naomi was a lady with problems long before Angelique set her dainty white foot onto American soil, perhaps long before Barnabas was born.  And Sarah died because her brother couldn't be bothered to clean his face, that and pneumonia were a fatal combination.  But I don't see Angelique's hand in that one either.

Luciaphil

[Gerard]

I think Joshua was just too stubborn to die.

Gerard

[Birdie]

If the curse was true, Julia should have been dead a long time ago.  

Birdie

[ProfStokes]

If the curse was true, Julia should have been dead a long time ago.  

Not necessarily. The feeling has to be mutual: whoever Barnabas loves and whoever loves him.  Even though he thought of Julia as a dear friend, I doubt he ever felt romantic toward her.

ProfStokes

[Luciaphile]

Not necessarily. The feeling has to be mutual: whoever Barnabas loves and whoever loves him.  Even though he thought of Julia as a dear friend, I doubt he ever felt romantic toward her.

That's not how Angelique worded it.  She said, "Whoever loves you will die."

In any case, I can't believe that Barnabas had no love for his father.

Luciaphil

[VAM]

Not necessarily. The feeling has to be mutual: whoever Barnabas loves and whoever loves him.  Even though he thought of Julia as a dear friend, I doubt he ever felt romantic toward her.

ProfStokes

I agee with you...a mutual feeling, which was not part of the Barnabas/Julia relationship.

[kuanyin]

I agree that the curse worked spottily at best. Are we supposed to think Angelique has died for her love and her own curse? I think that the curse worked as a good excuse to keep out of the relationship Barn didn't want anyway, but it sure never stopped him from going after any of the young ones.

[Luciaphile]

I agee with you...a mutual feeling, which was not part of the Barnabas/Julia relationship.

But where are you both getting the idea that the curse is based on mutual love?  Angelique specifically told him that "whoever loves you will die".  She didn't say anything about him needing to love in return.

And since "love" seems to be defined as encompassing more than the romantic (his mother, his sister), are we to believe that his father, Ben, or Elizabeth felt nothing in for him?  For that matter, if you include a non-romantic definition of love, then you really do have to include Julia--he may not have wanted to be with her romantically, but he exhibited platonic affection for her and for her safety.

This is academic for me because I don't think the so-called curse actually worked and I really don't want to get into the Julia/Barnabas debate.  In terms of the curse, however, I don't see where the reciprocity of love comes in and I don't see how if it does or doesn't, you can exclude a non-romantic type of love.

Luciaphil

[VictoriaWintersRox]

Maybe the curse got half repeled when Angelique gave him that stuff that didn't cure his vampirism before he died?

Of course, it might have just been some mumbo-jumbo talk Angelique used on him to make it sound worse lol. She never relaly said a 'vampire' curse yet is a vampire, so I have a feeling she gave the curse by pulling something 'out' of herself or however you'd express it.

[ProfStokes]

But where are you both getting the idea that the curse is based on mutual love?  Angelique specifically told him that "whoever loves you will die".  She didn't say anything about him needing to love in return.

Perhaps I did misunderstand. After studying Robservations, I see that the line is, "...you will never be able to love anyone, for whoever loves you will die!"
I interpreted that to mean that anyone whom Barnabas loved and who loved him in return would die.  No matter; I have another theory.  Perhaps the curse only strikes those who profess love for Barnabas.  As soon as Sarah said the magic words, she expired.  


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Naomi collapses after telling Barnabas that she loves him, and Josette speaks of nothing but love for him in these episodes.  I can't recall if Joshua ever verbalized his feelings, and Julia never got any further than "I--I..."

Just a thought.

ProfStokes

[Cassandra]

Everyone here has such good points, so it's really hard to decide whether it worked or not.  :-/  Perhaps with the passing of time, the curse was somewhat lessened a bit.  Whether certain members died or not, one thing is for certain, Barnabas was never truly able to find happiness in love after that.     Whether he was going after Maggie, Vicky, Roxanne, Rachel, Lady Kitty,(and anyone else I may have forgotten) the end results were always the same. He would get so close, then something or someone always maganged to step in and once again, he was alone & unhappy.

[Josette]

I always assumed the curse referred to romantic love.  Angelique supposedly loves him.  She wants to make sure to keep him and Josette apart.  When she does a curse involving love, I'm sure that's the sort of thing she was referring to.

As to Sarah, I never thought of her as directly dying from the curse.  But, the fact that Angelique made him a vampire had a pretty direct connection to the circumstances that caused her death.

[ROBINV]

I think I agree with those who believe that those who loved Barnabas had to SAY "I love you" to him in order to die, not necessarily right before dying, as Naomi and Sarah did, but at some point prior.  Verbalization is the key.

Who knows for sure?  Angelique's spells always seemed a little "off" anyway, working one moment, non-working the next.  She really did need a stint in Witch School.   Whatever Mama taught her, she didn't pay close enough attention.

Love, Robin  

[Julia99]

, and Julia never got any further than "I--I..."

Just a thought.

ProfStokes

Good thought Prof. . .but Julia did get a bit further towards the end "I care for you too much . .. [stammer] I mean, you are my dear friend . . .and. . .and. . ."

And without getting into the whole Barn/Julia debate .. I agree with Lucia. .the curse worked only when the plotlined needed it and the writers couldn't work themselves out of one of Curtis's crazy ideas . .'cuz Julia should've been long dead.  She loved him and Barnabas might not have been dreaming of her at night but he certainly loved her.  . . platonic or whatever. . he was a wreck every time she disappeared . . .