Masques of the Plague in 1841 PT, Corman, etc.

[Philippe Cordier]

I don't have any of my DS resources to consult and I was wondering if someone would be willing to briefly recap for me what role the plague played in 1841 PT.  I remember it being mentioned several times, but I don't remember if the writers reallly went anywhere with it.  Did the plague end up being significant in the events of 1841 PT?  Or was its significance perhaps in the past when the two lovers lived, [spoiler]whose bodies I think were being kept in some odd state of preservation deep in the bowels of Collinwood and were accessed through a secret panel at the back of the "lottery" bedroom?[/spoiler] My memory on all of this is hazy, especially since I missed the last part of 1841 when it aired last time.  I remember I really liked this last storyline.

I've always been fascinated with the idea of a "plague."  The first I remember hearing the term was when an elementary school teacher either read us, or told us the plot, of Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death."  I'm not sure why I've had the fascination, but perhaps I'm not alone as the concept does come up in books and films on rare occasions.  The most memorable to my mind being Bergman's superb "The Seventh Seal," set in medieval Scandinavia.

Recently I re-watched one of my favorites of the Roger Corman Poe adaptations, "Masque of the Red Death."  He clearly borrowed from Bergman the "Death as a hooded figure" motif who interacts with some of the characters -- and to very good effect, IMO.  I'd be curious if anyone has pinpointed exactly what each of the hooded figures represents in the final scene ... e.g. I think the yellow one may stand for cholera, etc. but haven't looked into it further than that.  (I'd also be curious if anyone has an explanation for the three figures that appear in Julianka's Satanic-inspired vision.  One appears to be an Aztec, one an Egyptian priest, and one an Egyptian pharoah.  Unfortunately there is no director's commentary on the DVD, although Corman does provide a good interview.  Also, who was the old man said to have been left alive in the village, and why was he spared?)

The subject of the plague recently came up for me in a way that hit closer to home than I would have guessed.  From time to time I pick up the threads of my family history research, and I only recently learned that the Moselle department of France where my direct bloodline originates was devestated by the plague in the mid-1600s.  (This immediately following the Thirty Years War, which had alone killed off half the population.)  The bishop in touring the area where my family is from recorded that there were only 10 people still alive.  It has been disturbing to know that my own ancestors lived through something so terrible, but it also raises the question of whether they survived the plague through immunity, or whether they were among an influx of people who repopulated the area sometime later from neighboring regions, or if they simply moved back after the plague had passed.

[Luciaphile]

IIRC, it's just mentioned. As in "oh, no! They have the Plague!" And I want to say the thought is because they didn't hold the stupid lottery, they believe the Plague has come to Collinwood.

But there's no mention or inference of anything logical like disease transmission from corpses...

There a couple of interesting sources out there, if you have a real interest in plague. A good starting point would be the Encyclopedia of Plague and Pestilence.

[Gothick]

[spoiler]A couple of family members do come down with it at one point when they attempt to stop holding the Lottery, or maybe when Gabriel pulls the old switcheroo with the local lad (who had such a pretty face, as I recall; wonder who that actor was?).[/spoiler]
It wasn't handled with anything like the sophisticated use of the Plague imagery in Masque of the Red Death. As for the specific questions you ask, my answer is that the symbolism is left deliberately open-ended.  The different colors of plague reflect the different colors of the rooms in Prospero's palace (the concept of a palace or villa with chambers decorated in diffferent colors did come from the original Poe story).  And that the Plague is meant to be as much spiritual as it is physical.  The "Red" Death--Red is a color associated with Pride, and secondarily with the worldy power over the lives of masses of people that are craved by those guilty of the sin of Pride in old morality.  I think it is also meant to echo Prospero's own hubris.

As for the figures in Giuliana's dream, in the movie, I do remember one of them was a Druid.  His costume was clearly inspired by a popular line drawing of Druid that was included in a lot of popular books on the occult and pre-Christian religions in the Sixties.  The appearance of Priests from non-Christian religions in the dream is the classic Christian assumption that anyone who doesn't serve their god must be serving Satan.

cheers,  Steve

[Philippe Cordier]

I'll make a note of that book, Luciaphil, thank you.

Gothick, your comments help me understand WHY Corman's "Masque" has the effect on me it does  -  I wonder how many viewers realize the levels of meaning at work.  Your explanations make sense, which shouldn't surprise me since your comments on "Eye of the Devil" greatly added to my already substantial appreciation of that movie.  (BTW, I hope to get back to "The Ninth Gate" again sometime this fall.)

I have seen "Masque" dismissed as trash on review sites.  I admit it takes some effort for me to overlook Jane Asher's performance along with some of the extras who seem to be doing a school play.  The Satan business is rather cheesy, too, but it's obvious that time and thought went into the movie as a whole.  Besides the aspects we've already mentioned, one example is the Hop Frog subplot, which is extremely well integrated.

Think I'll have to have another go at the original story - it has been a few years.

Dark Shadows has to be one of the more creative shows I know of with the way it made use of several of Poe's stories, among other literary works.  Some people may think of these borrowings as ripoffs or an easy out for the writers, but I feel that adapting and integrating a work within a new framework takes skill and talent (though I admit to being somewhat inconsistent as to when I cry "foul" or "fair" - or maybe I just haven't discovered the internal consistency of my judgments yet   ).

BTW, for those who are curious, "The Seventh Seal" has a great scene of a young girl about to be burned for witchcraft and for carnal knowledge with the devil.

The more I look into the past, the more I see pestilence, famine, and war -   and inhumanity - overshadowing all ...

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI

[Gothick]

Vlad, I'm aghast at your report that reviewers have been dismissing the R. Corman/V. Price Masque film as "trash"--when I was a young'un, the movie was widely regarded as the high point of the Corman Poe AIP series, beautifully stylised with exquisite images and a literate, provocative screenplay.  Only The Tomb of Ligeia surpassed it because it was just a bit more finished and had a more understated approach to the subject matter.  Perhaps today's critics regard Ligeia as trash, too.

I don't think people appreciate true subtlety or symbolism in film any longer.  Like Midnite, I've been impressed with the comments cult auteur Harry Kumel made in connection with Daughters of Darkness (although I have only heard the version of his comments recorded on the DVD).  He talks about his formalist methodology and his view that films should be treated as dreams, not representations of reality.  It's not the only way to do film, but it's a technique that I think can be found a great deal in Dark Shadows--both literally in the dream sequences and figuratively in the balletic representation of narrative.

For those whose brains have been rotted out by the explo posturings of certain highly touted present-day filmmakers (I won't name names though I am aching to do so), of course, anything made with a higher degree of imagination than budget is automatically "trash."

cheers, Steve

[Heather]

Good topic, Vlad. 

BTW, for those who are curious, "The Seventh Seal" has a great scene of a young girl about to be burned for witchcraft and for carnal knowledge with the devil.

Hey... I love that movie! 

Vlad, I'm aghast at your report that reviewers have been dismissing the R. Corman/V. Price Masque film as "trash"--when I was a young'un, the movie was widely regarded as the high point of the Corman Poe AIP series, beautifully stylised with exquisite images and a literate, provocative screenplay.  Only The Tomb of Ligeia surpassed it because it was just a bit more finished and had a more understated approach to the subject matter.  Perhaps today's critics regard Ligeia as trash, too.

  I think that's just awful... but then there's a lot of that going on today.

For those whose brains have been rotted out by the explo posturings of certain highly touted present-day filmmakers (I won't name names though I am aching to do so), of course, anything made with a higher degree of imagination than budget is automatically "trash."

Ain't that the truth!  [frustrated sigh]  Am I the only one in my age group that feels like this? lol
I need a drink...  

[Philippe Cordier]

I'm aghast at your report that reviewers have been dismissing the R. Corman/V. Price Masque film as "trash"--when I was a young'un, the movie was widely regarded as the high point of the Corman Poe AIP series, beautifully stylised with exquisite images and a literate, provocative screenplay.  Only The Tomb of Ligeia surpassed it because it was just a bit more finished and had a more understated approach to the subject matter.  Perhaps today's critics regard Ligeia as trash, too.

I just did a quick survey of reviews of Corman's "Masque of the Red Death" on the Internet trying to find the one or two negative reviews I came across last week, but couldn't find them now.  One review might have just been someone posting on imdb, but I know that one was definitely on a "review" type of site that had a cache of fairly extensive reviews.  Happily, I see now that most reviews are positive and intelligent, such as the one on dvdverdict, whose reviews seem to be consistently high quality.

The site that dismissed Masque as "trash" (the term used might have been "garbage") reminded me of a similar one I've seen for "Eye of the Devil."  I know there is always difference of opinion, but then there is such a thing as obtuseness.  Even "Variety" isn't immune from that disease.  Last year I looked up Variety's review of "Eye of the Devil".  I can understand that the concept behind that movie might go over a reviewer's head, but there doesn't seem to be any excuse for blindness to its filmic qualities.  Highly original camera work was dismissed as "overly mobile" and inspired by TV commercials (I'm afraid I don't remember any particularly avante garde TV commercials in the late '60s).  No notice was made of the hallucinatory sequences (or the trance theme for that matter), though those sequences were to inspire Roman Polanski in "Rosemary's Baby" (Gothick, maybe you pointed that out to me).  No mention of the striking location work in the Aude department of France, nor of the highly original music score by Gary McFarland, which mixes elements of "classical" and modern  -  for example, the harp solo at the beginning (which is later echoed by bells), reminiscent of Ravel; the haunting vocals with a touch of early medieval polyphony; and modern symphonic sound, unusual enough for a film score.  (Sadly, McFarland only did one other film score before he was poisoned in a Greenwhich Village bar and died a couple of years later.  A handful of his jazz-influenced albums have been re-released on CD in the past few years but seem to have disappeared already.)

A footnote to the discussion above about the seven rooms of different colors in Prospero's palace in "Masque."  I happened to pick up a book yesterday that recounted a description by Manley Palmer Hall (probably from his Secret Teachings of All Ages) of rites associated with the cult of Odin which he believed followed the pattern of the ancient Mystery religions' rites of initiation, which involved the seeker passing through nine rooms until reaching the inner sanctum, where the initiate symbolically confronts  . . .  himself.  This is exactly what happens in Masque when Prospero confronts Death in the initiation chamber (I won't say anymore than that to avoid spoilers).  This seems more than a coincidence to me, even though the number of chambers differs.

I take it that Giuliana's    nightmare vision at the last stage of her initiation is the result of her conscience getting the better of her since part of her still holds back from giving herself over wholly to Satan.  On the other hand, the reviewer at dvdtalk, another solid site, views this as Giuliana becoming victim of a macabre joke for her malice after turning herself over wholly to evil.  (My thought is that she still retained some goodness and had truly tried to help Jane Asher escape.)

BTW, Death's voice is supposedly dubbed by Christopher Lee.  I admit it does sound like him in the final scene, so it's possible he dubbed it, though another source says it was John Westbrook.  I don't think IMDB provides a credit.

An aside about the DVD.  Mine seems to skip in several places which is distracting (as if a frame or two were missing here and there).  The film didn't do that when it aired on AMC a couple of years ago so I don't know if my disk is defective or what.  I haven't had that happen with any other DVD.

Re:  Ligeia:  I rank Ligeia as the best of the Corman Poe pics, with Masque probably at number 2.  The double-sided DVD pairing of "Tomb of Legeia" with Price's one-man dramatic readings of Poe (made for TV in the '70s) is sublime!

If my mood was dark in an early post, in addition to contemplating the effects of war and pestilence, I had been reading about witchcraft executions in Lorraine, which reached some of the highest levels in Europe.  I was reading about a nine year old boy who was executed by strangling after providing a full confession of his sorcery.  Of course the same thing happened in Sweden and elsewhere.

[Gothick]

Hi Vlad,

actually, the idea of a color corresponding to a specific "level" in an initiatory progress seems to me to have its roots in Magickal techniques for working the Tree of Life in the Qabalah.  I recommend this site for more details:

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/

(Note:  Christian mystics spell this word cabala; Jewish scholars prefer kaballah; and Pagans and Witches like myself prefer Qabalah or Qabala.  I don't know how people who normally can't agree about anything managed to agree to keep these spellings separate.  I suppose it has to do with the source materials used by people in the various traditions.)

The use of Color in mystical and magickal symbolism has a far ranging application.  When Poe was writing, French mystic Eliphas Levi was publishing books that recorded his experiments with the occult, which were to have a far-reaching impact upon what eventually became the modern Occult movement.  In fact, I believe it was Levi who came up with the idea of using the word "occult" the way we use it today.

It sounds to me as if you need to get your Masque of the Red Death DVD exchanged.  As for Giuliana's dream, the motif of ritual death and rebirth is central in virtually ALL initiatory traditions.  A persistent bit of lore states that full initiation into the ancient Egyptian priesthood involved lying for 3 days and 3 nights in a sarcophagus.  There's a much more elaborate version of this in which the initiate survives several near-encounters with a spectacular painful and messy death during his ordeal

Best,  Steve

[Gerard]

I hope my memory is serving me correctly here, and I'm remembering the correct Corman movie.

I have two favorite scenes from "Masque."  The first is when the guards are ordered to kill the peasants who come to the gates of the castle, seeking help.  Here these poor people are ill and hungry, just wanting aid, and they're slaughtered.  The second is when the figures representing death are sitting around discussing their "day's work" at the end of the film.  One of them mentions that he spared, I believe, one child in a village decimated by the plague.  What's so powerful about these two scenes is the way in which death is treated so casually.  The soldiers have no problem in dispatching the suffering peasants - they have absolutely no feelings of mercy.  And yet, in regards to the latter scene, the death-dealing figures are also very casual, but they spare the life of one child.  Here they do have just a tinge of mercy and compassion.  The significance of that to me is very telling (as given in the movie).  Humans have no mercy when it comes to dishing out death, and the death-dealers, although un-human, have just a tad of it even when it's their "job" to mow life down.  A possible moral?  That death can sometimes be more "human" than humans.

Gerard

[Luciaphile]

The site that dismissed Masque as "trash" (the term used might have been "garbage") reminded me of a similar one I've seen for "Eye of the Devil."  I know there is always difference of opinion, but then there is such a thing as obtuseness.  Even "Variety" isn't immune from that disease.  Last year I looked up Variety's review of "Eye of the Devil".  I can understand that the concept behind that movie might go over a reviewer's head, but there doesn't seem to be any excuse for blindness to its filmic qualities.  Highly original camera work was dismissed as "overly mobile" and inspired by TV commercials

Last time I saw Masque of the Red Death I was about 15 and it was 3AM and I was watching it on the TV in the basement whose reception went out if you moved, so I'll defer commenting.

Did want to say though, Vlad, that the quality of the reviews is going to vary with the publication. Variety isn't going to take an art house approach, nor are most of the mainstream publications. For what you're talking about, at this point, you'd be better off checking the film crit lit. Also, as someone whose written a couple of reviews by now, I'd just like to say that it's darn hard. You have to take in the scope of the publication; cover a bunch of stuff the editor wants covered; and you usually have to do it in something like 350-500 words. Tops.

[Philippe Cordier]

[Note:  I wrote this offline last night but had missed Gothick's post above -- I had only scanned "the 10 most recent posts" -- and since I'm not sure when I'd have time for a re-write, I'm going to post it "as is."  My thoughts on the dream sequence are perhaps "complementary" ... ]

Nice summary of "Masque"'s themes, Gerard.  Six people were actually spared by the Red Death in Corman's movie, but your point remains.  Fearful as Death is, humanity can be far more cruel and evil.  Death is more a force of nature, the cycle of life - though terrifying in its execution, it is not malicious as man is.

(Regarding death as a personified figure:  I think this was taken almost for granted in earlier societies but a concept definitely out of step with the present day.  I remember my grandfather telling me after he had had a severe stroke that Death had come to him in a dream, but had told him he wasn't taking him yet.)

Luciaphil, your points about reviews are well taken.  I've written theater reviews and book reviews, and I know they aren't easy, especially when you are writing on deadline, word count, and writing for a particular audience which does not allow one to be as indulgent as if one were writing solely out of one's own interest.  Still, that "Variety" review - and Variety is a trade publication, for a somewhat specialized readership - also claimed that "Eye of the Devil" had no plot.  No plot, right.  A 10 year old could understand the plot, I should think.

A note of clarification regarding Juliana's dream, since I took time to re-watch Masque again over the weekend.  There really wasn't that much of a mystery about her dream since it was explained in a line of dialogue immediately after (though I had missed this line in previous viewings).

It isn't actually a dream but a vision.

Juliana (that's the spelling given in the movie's closing credits, although I like "Giuliana" - looks more Italian . . . ) has the vision after drinking from an ornate chalice as she completes her final initiation ritual in the black sanctuary.  Several figures appear in the vision - as discussed above, a Druid priest, an Egyptian priest, an Aztec priest . . . and what appears to possibly be an Oriental priest of some sort and an African witch doctor.  Each figure terrifies the screaming Juliana who is lying supine as each figure appears over her.

The vision ends, and a calm Juliana informs Prospero (whose voice speaks to her but who is not present in the chamber):  "I have survived my own sacrifice."

So the key is, very simply, that each scene of the vision depicts Juliana as a human sacrifice in a pagan religion.

(Interesting to compare the following:  "I am my own sacrifice" - the words of Odin as he hangs from the tree of Yggdrasil (sp), recorded in the Havamal.  Perhaps these words inspired Manly Hall to attribute a mystery initiation ritual to the cult of the Norse god Odin.)

The way the vision is filmed is very reminiscent of the manner in which Dark Shadows later presented its many dream sequences a few years later.

PS - Minor correction:  "Eye of the Devil" was filmed primarily in the Dordogne, not Aude, in SW France.  "The Ninth Gate" was filmed in Aude (through some web research, I discovered that the castle at the end is a Cathar ruin.)

If anyone is interested in the historical events that inspired Poe's "Hop Frog" (Hop Toad in the movie), I won't go into it here but feel free to IM me (I may not be able to respond immediately).

PPS - Am anxious to check out the site you mentioned Steve (Gothick)