Barn & Ben: a 1795 highlight

[Ben]

The relationship between Barnabas and Ben (Stokes, that is, not me) ranks in my mind as one of the highlights of the 1795 storyline and the entire series.   The chemistry between Jonathan Frid and Thayer David made the unlikely friendship between a member of the Collins elite and an oppressed servant genuine and believable.  

Frid imbued Barnabas with compassion, and David gave Ben an earnest quality.  Their scenes together so far, and in eps to come, are poignant and three-dimensional.  I am always touched by their exchanges.  Yet they succeeded in not crossing the line into the realm of maudlin and melodrama.  Perhaps this explains why they were periodically given long scenes together.

Ben

[Raineypark]

You've described the relationship perfectly, Ben...with Ben Stokes, Barnabas is compassionate, respectful and kind.

So could someone explain to me why he treated Willie Loomis as badly as he did?  Did he just forget everything he once believed about the way to treat a servant?

Please, get over the grave-robbing thing...Willie opened that casket and let the poor soul out for the first time in 200 years and by way of thanks, Willie is threatened, humiliated and beaten.  None of which was required, by the way, as he was completely under Barnabas' control already.

Is that just how Vampires are?  ?!?

Raineypark

[AllenCollins]

Raineypark,
One theory behind why Barnabas treated Willie so harshly is all that fire and fury that built up after being chained in a coffin for 171 years. If it were me I would probably grab the nearest throat too.

Seriously, Barnabas knew Ben and was friendly with him before becoming a vampire, I would think that a shred of those feelings would exist after Barnabas had been cursed. Willie on the other hand was an intruder originally and generally a bad person whom Barnabas reformed quickly.

That's my guess.

Ben, great job defining the working relationship between Jonathan Frid and Thayer David. I recall an interview that I have in an old issue of TWODS which Jonathan named Thayer David as one of his favorite actors from DS. He reiterated your point that he enjoyed doing scenes with Thayer.

B

[Luciaphile]

(snip)
So could someone explain to me why he treated Willie Loomis as badly as he did?  Did he just forget everything he once believed about the way to treat a servant?

Please, get over the grave-robbing thing...Willie opened that casket and let the poor soul out for the first time in 200 years and by way of thanks, Willie is threatened, humiliated and beaten.  None of which was required, by the way, as he was completely under Barnabas' control already.

Is that just how Vampires are?  ?!?

Raineypark

Assorted decades spent in a coffin and the qualities of rage, selfishness, and guilt will do that to a fella  

Seriously though, I think Barnabas made a distinction between the two men from the get go.  Ben was a veteran, forced to steal for food, and then to serve out a prison sentence to do so--Barnabas, who comes across, as more liberal and relaxed in the first part of 1795, presumably was already disposed to be kind.  Plus they would have had months or even years for friendship to grow.

Willie, on the other hand, was the 3rd rate felon trying to rob his mother's grave.  So Willie was already at a minus.  And as Willie became the moral voice of the show (scary, no?), he represented something that Barnabas was incapable of accepting and resented even having to hear, which is where the rage and really atrocious behavior came from on the part of Barnabas.

Luciaphil

[Raineypark]

Holy Hats, Luciaphil....I would never have thought of that line of reasoning: Barnabas resented being told right from wrong by the Brooklyn Bad Boy !!

Seriously, that's an insight I never had.

I didn't intend to compare Ben Stokes to Willie Loomis when I first brought this up...I simply wondered why a man who treated a servant so kindly in one lifetime would be so cruel in another.

Your take on it is an excellent explanation: a truly cruel man wouldn't care what Willie said, but a man who's true nature was to be kind and compassionate would be disturbed enough by Willie's pleas for Maggie and Vicky to want to shut him up.  

Thanks Luciaphil....I've said it before....you're a natural at this!!
Raineypark

[Happybat]

Hmmm ... I would think the best explanation for why Barnabas treated Willy so badly is not just that he's ornery from being chained up in a coffin, but the very fact that he is a vampire!  The chemistry between him and Ben must surely have a lot to do with Barnabas still being a kind and compassionate mortal.  Vampirism seems to do nasty things to a person's character!  

[Carol]

Hmmm ... I would think the best explanation for why Barnabas treated Willy so badly is not just that he's ornery from being chained up in a coffin, but the very fact that he is a vampire!  The chemistry between him and Ben must surely have a lot to do with Barnabas still being a kind and compassionate mortal.  Vampirism seems to do nasty things to a person's character!  

Now that I think of it, they both seemed to have undergone a personality change.  Willie, the uncaring, petty criminal , becomes the voice of reason & compassion   after he's bitten while Barnabas, the kind, caring & compassion gentleman of 1795 becomes the arrogant, viscious, murderous psychopath after he's cursed and bitten by the bat.

When he first becomes a vampire, he seems to be finding out who and what he is and still treats Ben with
respect.  But, after almost 200 years without nourishment, Willie was just too good to pass up.  During this transference of blood between vampire and victim, Barnabas not only has implanted a "call button" in Willie's brain but he has also found out things about Willie that Ben would have never done, namely rob the grave of his dear departed mother.  To Barnabas, that was sacrilege to desecrate his mother's tomb and, IMHO, he regards Willie as "once a lowlife, always a lowlife". That is, until he starts to "hear" what  the new and improved Willie is trying to tell him. Then you see the subtle change in their relationship move to another level as the story progresses.

      Carol

[VAM]

When he first becomes a vampire, he seems to be finding out who and what he is and still treats Ben with
respect.  But, after almost 200 years without nourishment, Willie was just too good to pass up.  During this transference of blood between vampire and victim, ...

      Carol

That explains it-The transfer of Willie's BAD blood to Barnabas. I always thought the bat that Angelique sent to bite him was rabid!

[Philippe Cordier]

Ben, thanks for posting this thoughtful topic about the relationship between Barnabas and Ben Stokes.  Given the vast differences between them in social status, education, etc., it's all the more remarkable that their friendship continues to grow -- a relationship marked by mutual respect, loyalty, and endurance.

You've touched on a topic that I find very meaningful personally; I'm always drawn by presentations such as what we'll be seeing with Barnabas and Ben; not long ago I found myself moved by the relationship between Nicholas and Smike in the recent production of "Nicholas Nickleby."

Such friendships are seemingly all too rare in real life.  I have literally had people end a friendship because I voted for a different political candidate, for example, and another because I didn't watch the World Series when "we" were in it (I went to browse at Borders Books instead).  Such things are absolutely unforgivable to many -- to me, that would be like my ending a friendship because the other person didn't care for "Dark Shadows."  I'd love for everyone I know to share exactly the same interests, feelings, and beliefs that I do, but that's not realistic.  There are always going to be differences of opinion between people, but it's my conviction that these things are superficial when put into the perspective of what's really important in life.

What the friendhsip between Barnabas and Ben Stokes shows, to me, is that what's important is the relationship -- respect and caring for another human being -- despite differences.  In the end, that's the only thing that truly matters.

[Raineypark]

Vlad, do you always write so thoughtfully and well, or are you just on a really impressive role here?

I just finished reading your comments in the "1795 Greek Tragedy" thread and thought to myself how nice it was to have found a forum where people write so intelligently about topics they really know something about.  I've forgotten most of what I ever learned about Classical Literature, but I enjoyed that post enormously.

Then I come here to "Barnabas and Ben" and I am completely blown away by your reference to Smike from "Nicholas Nickleby".

Poor Smike is my absolute favorite character from Dickens.  But I've rarely ever met anyone who knows who he is.  What "recent production" of that play are you referring to?  It was done on Broadway, but many years ago.  That production was taped and shown on TV, on one of the PBS stations, which is where I saw it.

I suspect one of the reasons many people think of Dickens as "sentimental" these days, is that friendships like Nicholas and Smike aren't portrayed very well in the media today.  Can you picture Arnold Swartzenegger cradling a tormented and crippled Bruce Willis in his arms while he cries out "Who calls so loud?" and then dies?  Well, maybe, if it took place in a prison camp that was about to be blown to Kingdom Come in a 36 minute scene of incredible firepower and carnage.

Thank you for posting your thoughts on the relationship between Barnabas and Ben, and reminding me of my dear Smike....I just might have to haul out that 8-hour tape and watch it again!

Raineypark

[Philippe Cordier]

Raineypark,

Thanks for your kind remarks!  I sometimes worry that I might come across as trying to be a know-it-all, but I guess it comes from having spent six years at two very competitive, cut-throat academic institutions.  And actually, I hoped that my thoughts on Ben and Barnabas, which came from my emotions, might balance my more clinical, intellectual dissection in the "tragic genre" post.  So, I appreciate your response.  Also, since I was laying bare some of my feelings here (and possibly revealing what an oddball I might seem to some!) in this thread.

Regarding "Nicholas Nickleby," I too have the 8-tape set from the Royal Shakespeare Co. production that was produced on Broadway in the early '80s.  Though I haven't watched all of it, I always remembered it from its TV broadcast.  The more recent production was a BBC film version that aired in England last year and for the first time in the U.S. just a couple of months ago on TNT, I believe it was.  This version was beautifully filmed and the actor portraying Smike was especially heartbreaking (not so physically deformed as in the RSC stage version).  You could find out more information about it on imdb.com; it's available on video and DVD (through bn.com, among other sites).  I highly recommend it!

How great to find another Dickens enthusiast!  I'm sure people on this board have had to roll their eyes more than once when I start going on about Dickens time and again ...  But the 1897 storyline does have a Dickensian feel, as well as a very brief borrowing from "Nicholas Nickleby", as you may be aware of (which was called to my attention on this forum the last time 1897 ran on SciFi).

Yes, Dickens is a very heartfelt writer, and I've read that in the Victorian age men weren't ashamed to be brought to tears by the emotions he brought to the forefront ...

And I am so impressed with the quality of thought that went into the writing of the DS episodes we are seeing now and throughout so much of the series ...  the interweaving of Ben's and Barnabas's relationship throughout several different time periods being just one example of how this show is in a class of its own ...

And then whenever something really cheesey happens (severed arms falling off, etc.), I plant my tongue firmly in cheek and remind myself that I DID refer to 1795 as the "Masterpiece Theatre" segment of the series ...

Loved everyone's comments here ... I learned something!

Vlad

[Happybat]

Vlad,

I, too, have been enjoying your intelligent and literate comments on this forum.  It is a pleasure to see that there are still a few men left who don't feel that sentiments are just for sissies!  

Are you referring to the Nicholas Nickleby production starring Roger Rees?  I enjoyed it, too!  That was a very sharp observation you had, comparing the Nicholas/Smike relationship with that of Barnabas and Ben.  The performances were excellent; although I was especially amazed by David Threlfall's moving portrayal of Smike.  You might be interested to know that several years ago I went on one of those guided walks of London, and this one, a tour of Sloan Square and Belgravia, was given by the actress who played Nicholas' sister, Kate.  (Don't recall her name now.)

The idea of what is regarded as masculine has changed so drastically over the centuries, and I have always found the topic itself fascinating.  For instance, in the late 17th century when men were encouraged to cry, wear high heels, towering wigs and douse themselves with perfume, carrying a "brolly" would have been considered unmasculine!  

In terms of fashion, the current DS era and the early 19th century were probably the last ones where men were allowed some sartorial spendor without being considered eccentric or effeminate.  One could maybe argue that there were a few exceptions, such as perhaps the disco era, although it is a sad one, IMO!

Come to think of it, Vlad, I seem to recall a very fetchingly attired ca. 1840 gentleman at last year's WTC Fest who reminded me a lot of the young Dickens himself!  

[Raineypark]

I agree wholeheartedly that David Threlfall is an actor of astonishing abilities.

Which only makes me more furious when I think of how few roles I've managed to see him portray.  I'm pretty certain that I've never seen him in an American production of any kind, but only in British or European works, most recently being "Conspiracy", I think.

I'm afraid we've wandered very, very far Off Topic at this point....unless we'd like to consider what DS role Mr. Threlfall would have shone in.  Never mind....let's not bore the rest of the family......
Raineypark

[Dr. Eric Lang]

I agree completely, Ben! Out of all the characters played by Thayer David, Ben is definitely my favorite. He's very much like Matthew Morgan (which I didn't know until just recently) - without the obsessive need to protect Elizabeth/Naomi! Some very poignant moments between him and Barnabas. It was also cool to see him as an old man in 1840.

[Dr. Eric Lang]

I recall an interview that I have in an old issue of TWODS which Jonathan named Thayer David as one of his favorite actors from DS. He reiterated your point that he enjoyed doing scenes with Thayer.

It shows, too! You can really tell when Jonathan Frid is "on his game," so to speak.