Can DS possibly come back from the dead one more time after diasterous Depp Film

[David]

Ron Sproat had written a story arc that would have revealed Victoria as Liz' daughter. They were about to script it for broadcast, but Alexandra's sudden departure killed it.
I'm most sorry about that RE: 1968.

[michael c]

well fans have certainly taken that almost as a given despite the fact that it never actually made it into the scripts. it's almost an established part of series' lore.


to keep liz a sympathetic figure in that scenario it would have been interesting to know why on god's green earth she would have sent her first born child to live in some god-forsaken orphanage somewhere. but we'll never know.

[quentincollins]

The novels (Dreams of the Dark) and the audios (Return to Collinwood) have both established Liz as Vicki's mother, as did the Innovation comic series for the Revial Series, but neither went into much details on why Liz gave Viki away and didn't acknowledge her.
I think there's a good chance this may get explored in Lara Parker's upcoming novels, as Wolf Moon is supposed to have some flashbacks of a young Liz, and the in progress 4th novel focuses on Vicki. Maybe we'll finally get some answers (especially on the identity of her father) - as well as some closure to Vicki's fate.
I'm also still holding out hope that someday Alexandra Moltke Isles will do some audio plays.
It is kind of neat that the story of Vicki, and DS, is still unfolding

[Gothick]

I tolerate a lot of nonsense in the 1968 era for the sake of such delicious moments as:

Cassandra's showdown with Liz: "Do you know what your problem is?"  I still can't believe that that line was scripted AND delivered.

Any scene involving Nicholas and Julia.

Barnabas taunting Cassandra as "Angelique" and her inevitable response:  "Don't call me that!"

Mrs. Johnson telling Nicholas she fears the Collins family is under a curse... and Mrs. Johnson reading Harry the riot act. LOL!

Tom and Julia.

Vampilique and her various schemes.  (I really felt for her when Nicholas stopped her from goin' down on that hunky cop... CHOMP!)

I could go on, but these are just some of the gems that always make me look forward to visiting the 1968 period.

I also find the scene where Maggie tries to talk Joe into leaving town to be a surprisingly poignant moment... it definitely looks back to the period when Collinsport was just a troubled small town... not a Hellmouth-in-training.

G.

[michael c]

even though it's being written by a series' castmember Parker's upcoming novel on Vicki's backstory is still in essence elevated fan fiction...

no matter what theory Parker comes up with it doesn't really "answer" any of the questions about Vicki's parentage because it's just Parker's own interpretation. and no matter how many times it's "officially" sanctioned RTC was just a festival skit.

unfortunately because it never actually took place onscreen none of those questions can ever definitively be "answered".

[quentincollins]

We'll have to agree to disagree there.
I consider the DS novels by Parker and Rainey, and the comics and audios to be part of the same ongoing story as the tv series. They are offically licenced stories following the same storyline and that's not the same as fan fiction imo. The audios even use the original actors.
The Ross novels, the old comics and HODS and NODS are in the own seperate continuities because they weren't trying to fit into the original series continuity, just in case that comes up.
It's a familiar debate with any fandom with spin off media, as to what counts and what doesn't. I tend to embrace a larger world view of what counts as real DS, it makes for a richer more complex, and larger, experience. I understand not everyone's going to feel the same way and that's ok too.

[Gothick]

According to the traditional definition, series canon consists *only* of material broadcast as part of the run of the show.  *All* material not originally broadcast, including the Ken Bald and Gold Key comics, is its own canon, as are the redactions from 1991, 2004, and 2012.

I'm not even sure all the Big Finish stories are trying to fit into the same canon.  Frankly, the only one I listened to in its entirety may have had the same actors, but the characters spoke and acted like people completely different from the ones I had gotten to know through original series canon.

Just providing the traditional view--of course you can choose to slice it as you prefer.

Best, Gothick

[michael c]

so then QC what happened if Lara's 'version' of Vicki's backstory reveals Liz not to be Vicki's mother. but someone else is???


doesn't that invalidate the "official" RTC theory? no ones read her story yet. she hasn't even written it. she could "reveal" Mrs. Johnson to be Vicki's mother if she felt like it. it's her party.



just because Lara appeared on the series and has been "licenced" by DCP doesn't her make story speculations any different than anybody else's. she didn't create Victoria Winters as a character. neither did mark rainey. Parker's previous books already go well outside established canon.

it's still just fan fiction. and my DS "experience" has been plenty "rich" as it stands.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

I've got to say G, nearly every single one of the 1968 scenes that you mentioned is in my "favorites" list.  But, I also have a "favorites" list of scenes in Depp Shadows.  I think both show great potential, but never live up to "Haunting of Collinwood" (1969) or "I am Phoenix. Hear Me Roar" (1967) quality.

Yes, 1968 certainly did have some great moments.  As did Depp Shadows.  But, overall, they both strayed from my preferred original series "tone," Depp Shadows a little more so.   

[Midnite]

Ron Sproat had written a story arc that would have revealed Victoria as Liz' daughter. They were about to script it for broadcast, but Alexandra's sudden departure killed it.

It's true that Sproat said at the earliest Fest that the writers intended to reveal this but AM left the show before it could happen.  But I don't believe he'd written anything for it yet and the identity of Vicki's father was never finalized.

[Gothick]

Cousin B, I honestly do not mean to be offensive--just giving my opinion--but to be frank, I found Jonny Depp's portrayal of Barnabas to be literally unwatchable.  Somehow I got through it--once.  Nothing in 1968 is on that level of dreadfulness (well, some of the Vicki/Jeff scenes come close).

Again, just my opinion.  Glad you can enjoy it to the point of having "favorite moments."  I really wish more of the Helena/Pfeiffer scenes had been kept in--the ones sans Barnabas and "Evalique" (rhymes with EEK! which is what her dye job does to me).

Going to my room to rest,

G.

[Gothick]

We diehard fans seem to be the only ones who remember the whole Betty Hanscombe narrative. I really wish they had resolved that, but perhaps after Art Wallace left, DC decreed that it was "yesterday's headline."  And if any of the writers protested, we know what the response from the golfclub-wielding exec was--"Are you writing the show--or not?  There are a lot of people who would like to write this show."

sigh.

G.

[quentincollins]

Big Finish's audios all work togather in one continuity, and they also incorporate RtC into their continuity. They so far haven't done any audios set after RtC, but one of the original characters from RtC has made an appearance in one of their audios.
If Lara's new books seriously contradict the audios, then I may need to rethink my stance. Already I admit it could be considered a strech to reconcile The Salem Branch with the audios, but there is a 12 or so year gap between TSB and the full cast audio stories from Big Finish. Plenty of time for untold stories to sort out the continuity issue.
Since Big Finish did an abridged audiobook of Angelique's Descent read by Lara Parker, I think they have embraced the 18th century backstory as part of their canon anyways.
I already can see one way around the issues that could come up. Liz could have lied in her will about Viki's paternity to hide a different secret, or even to give Viki what she most wanted, a family and identity. I definitely prefer Liz to be Viki's mother, because it's what the writers intended, and because of the warm chemistry between the actors/characters. Watching the show I definitely feel that Liz was her mother,and I think there's subtext to support that, but of course, subtext is personal and subjective.
This is of course just my opinion. Of course others are free to feel differently. There are some good stories in the spin off media that are well worth any fan checking out.
For what it's worth, there's also some very very good fan fiction out there. Stories can be enjoyed without being "canon", and in DS, with Parallel Time, all realities can be real somewhere.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

Cousin B, I honestly do not mean to be offensive--just giving my opinion--but to be frank, I found Jonny Depp's portrayal of Barnabas to be literally unwatchable.  Somehow I got through it--once.  Nothing in 1968 is on that level of dreadfulness (well, some of the Vicki/Jeff scenes come close).

Again, just my opinion.  Glad you can enjoy it to the point of having "favorite moments."  I really wish more of the Helena/Pfeiffer scenes had been kept in--the ones sans Barnabas and "Evalique" (rhymes with EEK! which is what her dye job does to me).

Interesting you should point that out, as none of my favorite moments have to do with Depp's Barnabas, except for his introduction to Vicki and one at the bitter end.  No, most take place before his arrival and involve Pfeiffer and Heathcote.  Like you, I have only seen it once.  I will watch it again once the DVD ends up in the discount bin.     It's funny, though, as I actually would rather watch Depp's Barnabas than any of the Jeff and Vicki scenes in 1968.     I did not like Depp's Barnabas, but I prefer him to that horribly uncomfortable OS mash-up.

[The Doctor and K9]

no matter how many times it's "officially" sanctioned RTC was just a festival skit.

unfortunately because it never actually took place onscreen none of those questions can ever definitively be "answered".

That's an interesting opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, since the cast was officially reunited to do a licensed full cast audio production, I consider it to be canon.  You and I can argue until the cows come home (whenever that is) but in the end neither of us decides that, and the powers that be proablably don't care. But calling Return to Collinwood is certainly more than a "skit".  It's a decently written(but not up to the level of the Big Finish stories), well acted, professionally produced audio drama. Like the rest of Big Finish, it's reasonably consistent with the original series. Any continuity gaffes are less appallng than what they got away with on the show. But as I said, in the end, it's all a matter of opinion because I don't hear anyone at Dan Curtis Productions making statements about what's canon and what's not.