DS VS Star Trek? Why So Little Respect For DS?

[David]

  


Well, I saw the trailer for the new Star Trek film.
Ben Cross plays Spock's Dad, BTW.

Now, why do Trekkies get one film after another, hundreds of books, one TV series after another, constant reruns, while us DS fans have to fight for every crumb?

Even Depp Shadows is getting pushed back again & again & again......

I recall in the 60s, in my native Brooklyn NY, having a bunch of guys make fun of me because "he watches Dark Shadows".
In retrospect I realize that saying "he watches DS" was the same as calling me a "fag".

At horror cons, I've heard DS talked about with disdain.
This coming from the same self important idiots who worship the worst drive in trash imaginable!

Why so little respect for DS?
And what can we do to turn that around?

David

[RachelDrummand]

I've wondered the same thing myself. Why is our beloved show getting so little attention? I guess that's what they mean by "small" cult following. On average, how many people actually attend a DS fest? I've never been to one but I am curious.

I'm not even that interested in Star Trek. I can't really get into the original series. TNG has its moments and I enjoy watching episode involving Data but other than that...I don't get it. Maybe DS would have been more popular had they had a storyline where Barnabas and Julia take off in a spaceship and tour other planets. *sighs*

Rachel

[The Doctor and K9]

First of all, I love Star Trek and was a fan before I was even allowed to watch DS.  I turned 8 exactly 2 weeks after it went off the air.  I got into DS via the Marilyn Ross books and shortly after that by watching the reruns on WLVI 56 out of Boston.  I got my share of teasing for being a "trekkie". 

I think the reason that DS has not been as popular is the nature of the show.  It's much easier to syndicate 79 hour long episodes. In order for DS to succeed on TV, it has to hook a nonsoap opera audience into watching it.  Early Barnabas runs quite slowly compared to most of what is on in TV-Land.  It takes a special viewer to appreciate Trek.  It takes a special viewer with a lot of patience and a large attention span to really get into DS.  That's my two cents any way.

[michael c]

i agree...

the serialized format of the show makes it difficult to watch casually.for it to make sense it needs to followed regularly and watched sequentially.that takes alot of commitment.a standalone episode of a show like 'star trek' can be watched in any order desired with alot more flexibility.

on another note i'm frankly glad that the series hasn't been spun-off into a "world" of cheap,syndicated,fantasy junk that litters the saturday afternoon television schedule and exists as something of a perfect time capsule.

not that i wouldn't welcome a new version.

[Nancy]

Exactly, which is one reason there are not DS marathons by the cable stations who have been running the series.

Believe me, I know plenty of people who make fun of those who watch Star Trek and other more popular shows.  The sneering isn't limited towards those who watch DS.

nancy

the serialized format of the show makes it difficult to watch casually.for it to make sense it needs to followed regularly and watched sequentially.that takes alot of commitment.a standalone episode of a show like 'star trek' can be watched in any order desired with alot more flexibility.

[Gerard]

Undoubtedly, the ability to rerun in perpetuity a once-a-week, three-season show is much easier, with its rather few episodes is much easier than running a one-thousand-plus episodic show with changing and shifting characters and on-going plot lines.  The former will thus receive wider audience viewing while the latter will create a more limited viewership. 

Another factor might be that today people would look at DS through time-altered eyes.  They wouldn't take as kindly, maybe, to many of the plot inconsistencies (we talk about them here), watching a video format rather than a filmed one (people today are fickle; I know folks who won't watch a black-and-white movie, no matter how much of a classic it is - talk about being spoiled), as well as the bloopers (not appreciating how they can make a show more enduring), and a "cheaper" look.  The original ST, by today's standards, also has a "cheaper" look, there's no doubt about that.  Compare it to ST-TNG and all other sequels.  But, IMO, the later various series have allowed ST fans to "forgive" the short-comings of the original.  Other than the '91 series, there has been virtually nothing to allow the flow to continue.

Like I said, people are fickle.  They don't look beyond their rather shallow perception of things, placing it all in context, valueing landmarks that were made.  But, low-and-behold, there are apparently more people appreciating DS.  Look at how it is now constantly referenced with regards to newer "vampire endeavors," whether it's True Blood or Midnite.  DS is used as a point of reference. 

Gerard

[jimbo]

Good question David. Respect or a lack of respect is something like when WB ordered that Hogan had to direct the 2004 pilot when he admittedly knew nothing about DS. Dan Curtis wanted to direct the pilot and WB said that they preferred a hot director, clearly an example of disrespect. You mentioned Depp's DS movie. It appears that Depp and company is showing a lack of respect to the franchise by keeping its fans in the dark for over two years, no pun intended. Surely we deserve some kind of idea when it may be filmed. We don't even know for sure if Depp will star in the movie, it's assumed he will play the Barnabas character but why has it not been officially confirmed by his people?; we don't know for sure if Burton will direct it and we don't know if August's script has been completed and approved. I am pretty sure that Shadowgram would love to keep us posted on the movie's progress but it has not apparently received any updated information from the DS producers. Depp and his people should recognize and acknowledge the fact that DS fans are very loyal and passionate and are worthy of receiving a little dignity of respect. WB has not even mentioned DS in any discussion on its future movie projects. Did MPI show us fans respect when they released those so called collector plates? Did MGM show us any respect when it was allowed to destroy the 1991 series on DVD? I am sure we will get a great deal of respect when Depp and Burton get their act together. Respect can be very elusive.

[Lydia]

Star Trek was helped by the fact that all the principal actors of the original series were willing to be in the first few movies.  If Jonathan Frid had agreed to be in the second Dark Shadows movie, and then in a third movie, Dark Shadows history would have been different.  It's so dreadfully unfortunate that Frid has a mind of his own!

As for the disdain for Dark Shadows at horror cons, that doesn't surprise me.  Dark Shadows is not good horror.  If it were, I wouldn't like it.  (You may link this, if you wish, with a statement I have made elsewhere: Jerry Lacy does not look like Humphrey Bogart.  If he did, I wouldn't like him.)

The original Star Trek was more single-minded than Dark Shadows.  My impression (although I've never been a Star Trek fan, so I don't know) is that there is a general consensus among Star Trek fans as to what the point of the show is and what the point of the show should be, and I think that additionally there is a general consensus among Star Trek fans that the actual point of the Star Trek is pretty much the same as what the point of Star Trek should be.  I don't think that's the case among Dark Shadows fans.  So it's whole lot easier to make the vast majority of Trekkies happy than it is to make the vast majority of Dark Shadows fans happy.

Of course, the “camp” label encourages disrespect of Dark Shadows, besides providing a shining example of a subject upon which there is disagreement within Dark Shadows fandom.

[Mary]

I think perhaps that another reason for the broader appeal of Star Trek is what I've always heard about its popularity that it represents such a positive, wonderful vision of and hope for a future of space travel and visits to other worlds in a time when everyone gets along no matter what their color, race, gender, creed, orientation, or home planet is.  DS is more of a present-day escape into the world of the supernatural.  I'm into both shows, although I was a fan of DS looooong before I ever watched ST and I personally prefer vampires and werewolves to aliens, but that's just me -- LOL!

[MagnusTrask]

Now, why do Trekkies get one film after another, hundreds of books, one TV series after another, constant reruns, while us DS fans have to fight for every crumb?

Even Depp Shadows is getting pushed back again & again & again......

I recall in the 60s, in my native Brooklyn NY, having a bunch of guys make fun of me because "he watches Dark Shadows".
In retrospect I realize that saying "he watches DS" was the same as calling me a "fag".

Why so little respect for DS?

I consider the new Star Trek film, and most Star Trek films, to be signs of how much disrespect there is for real Star Trek, as the serious SF show it started out as.   Consider yourself lucky that some new, "better", more Hollywood version of DS hasn't eclipsed the original.   Alright, no one agrees with me, but I'm right!

DS was a huge mainstream hit in the 60s.   I didn't even know there was a sizeable gay fan contingent until a couple of years ago; I found that out here.   People don't connect it with gayness except amongst gay fans.  Those guys in Brooklyn were still jerks of course...

Trek is a unique fandom phenomenon; they invented organized TV series fandom.   DS is one of many shows with fierce fandoms who have to wait in line for the possibility of revivals or remakes or reboots.

[sallycollins]

What is ironic about all this is that Dark Shadows and Star Trek were both on at the same time in the late 60's. DS was wildly popular, so well know that even people who didn't watch it had heard about it. Star Trek was mostly unsuccessful, as far as ratings go, I think. If you had asked anyone in 1968-69 what is the more popular show, it would have been DS hands down. But syndication does strange things. Shows like the Odd Couple and the Honeymooners were much more popular in syndication than they ever were when they originally aired. That's what happened with Star Trek.

Sally

[Gothick]

Are we talking about respect, or sales?  My impression from the recent DVD reviews and all the hype around Depp Shadows is that DS has a high degree of respect and "name recognition" among more imaginative industry people, just as it does amongst more imaginative genre fans.  It's all the remarkable that this remains the case given how many years DS has been off the air.  While Star Trek has pretty much always been on some channel, in some incarnation or other, that has not been the case for DS.

I have been personally very much surprised by the endurance and vitality DS has shown as a pop culture presence.  Granted, that has a definite retro edge to it, while Trekkers are celebrating the imminent arrival of the latest movie in the series, which will unveil yet another "next generation" concept.  I do feel that the staying power of DS does show that there's a substantial number of people out there who prefer quality to the buckets of CGI glitz we get in today's entertainment.

As for people not laughing at Trekkers--what about Bill Shatner and the whole "get a life" thing?  And did you watch that movie about people whose lives revolve around Star Trek cons hosted by Denise Crosby, with the woman who attended Jury Duty in her Starfleet Uniform? 

I'm personally very thankful that the abortive Sci Fi Channel documentary which sought to portray the series and its fans as the latest freaky flavor of the decade sank without broadcast and without any visible trace!

cheers, G.

[Nancy]

I don't think the film House of Dark Shadows did anything good for the franchise.  The film was devoid of the charm and quality of the series.  I don't think it was a good film at all. The DS films are, of course, important to the DS world as they exist but a chance to showcase on film what made the series so popular was missed. 

There are people who think anyone who goes to a convention for a TV show do not have a life.  That's no more true than the fans who dress up as chickens, Indians or color themselves to attend a football game, bare-chested in the middle of winter.  Who is more nuts?   

DS has lived on some 40 years after it first aired and it has not been aired for quite some time now.  Yet here we are.  The conventions continue, the DVDs continue to be sold and those who loved DS and I agree with everything else that Gothick said in his post.

As for the respect issue - I suppose the non-conformist me has to ask why do we care what anyone else thinks about what we like? What makes us happy?  I didn't care when I was a kid about anyone's opinion about what I liked or watched and sure as hell do not care now.  I'm sure plenty of people would have a few choice words about a 50 year old woman whose idea of a swell time is playing CALL OF DUTY for hours on a video game console.

Johnny Depp has pushed the proposed DS project back now and again but I don't see that as a negative thing.  For heaven's sake, the man has a busy career and a family.  In the world of production, circumstances can change from minute to minute and what was planned for several months is suddenly shelved because something else has come up because new ingredients required for it to get moving have arrived.   Depp could very well prefer to get working on the DS movie sooner rather than later but . . . .

Why is this about a us versus them thing?  We are talking about two very different programs.

nancy

[MagnusTrask]

Star Trek has a very bad image amongst the general public.  It's so bad that other TV fandoms sometimes differentiate themselves from "trekkies", hypocritical but true.   The image improved for awhile when Next Generation was doing well, but that went away.

[mm#7]

This has been an interesting topic.This mm#7.I happen to be alife long fan of ds. I hav e a;; the vhs, the dvd, the laser discs of house and night.I enjoy them all.If I rememmber correctly, i felt the ds might have more popular that trek was in its original run.But we all know of the syndication problems worldvision had with ds, wheras Paramont got st out there immedialty.I personally never experienced much hostility from st trek fan because I was and stillam a ds fan.Sometimes people that you work with find out that youlike a certain show, or a movie franchise, and sometimes if the wrong group gets that infor, they will break your chops and give you a hard time.I delt with stuff like that in two ways,before knee and back injuries took over my life, for a small man, 5ft 7inches, and at that time, about 140lbs,take if out on the football field.Sometimes people ar work especially men, ten to think touch of their athletic abilitys.So when the next thing that they know, Richi has just flattened outjohn on the game, watch out.sometimes, and it happens to me all the time,I am very underestimatedThan you had the men and women who's social lives were constantly so busy.and what ere clowns doing with their lives?BOOZE AND DRUGS.I ALWATS STAYED AWAY FROM THAT.Its unfortunate, that people feel that they have to show no respect to anyone based on a tvt series that they watch.But today, that still happens.I have been to many ds conventions, the early days of shadowcon, till finally the ds fest.i have made alot of very dear friends there, and we still sre friends.many have been lifelorn friends. that i always apreeciate.After reading this article,I felt a need to respond.I hope that all of you reading my bit on it, understood where Iwas coming from Thankyou, mm#7