vicki's past

[doug]

does anyone know what the real story was behind vicki's past
as hinted about in some early episodes. To my knowledge
the story has not been told.

[Philippe Cordier]

Doug,

This was probably the greatest mystery of the show that was never resolved.

Many people have many different theories; some have written fanfiction giving their explanation.  The recent DS novel "Dreams of the Dark" by Mark Rainey presented the view that Victoria was Elizabeth Collins Stoddard's daughter.  However, I don't think who her father was, was revealed in this book.

[ROBINV]

They never do resolve the secret of Vicki's parentage, but Joan Bennett claimed, in an official interview, that she was Vicki's mom.  

There has been much speculation on who Daddy was--Paul Stoddard, Jason McGuire, Ned Calder, Bill Malloy--but the are merely guesses or wishes.  

I always thought it would have been a neat twist to have Matthew Morgan be Vicki's papa.  

Love, Robin

[Dr. Eric Lang]

Doug - the original story line bible for Dark Shadows was written by Art Wallace, a collaberation between him and Dan Curtis. In the "bible" Art Wallace reveals that Victoria Winters is the illegitimate daughter of Paul Stoddard.

However, it seems that Dan Curtis changed his mind after casting Alexandra Moltke in the part. Everyone thought the actress bore a striking resemblance to Joan Bennett, and Curtis decided she should be Elizabeth's daughter.

As you know, they never got around to revealing the mystery one way or another. Had Vicky stayed on the show, and if they ever finally addressed this question, there is no telling what they might have done. Given Curtis' penchant for experimentation and change, it might have gone in a completely different direction . . . i.e., Vicky could have turned out to be an illegitimate descendant of Quentin Collins (as Chris Jennings and Joe Haskell turned out to be), or perhaps even one of Charles Delaware Tate's creations from a painting.

Who knows? ?!?

[Philippe Cordier]

Very well explained, Chris.

I had forgotten about Art Wallace's story bible -- which surprises me, because in the past I've tended to hold to Wallace's plan for the show as being the truest conception of the Collins family.

But it's best to realize that changes could be expected to be made as the show progressed, and I do tend to lean more now toward Elizabeth as being Victoria's mother rather than Paul Stoddard as her father.  I felt that way more after seeing the early episodes of the show with this current run on Sci-Fi.

We know that many, many changes were made in the conception of the Collins family, particularly their ancestry, as the show progressed.

My thought about why they never tied up the loose threads regarding Victoria's past is that as the show continued to gain new viewers, new viewers didn't know (or care) anything about her past.  New stories were developing all the time, and something that had happened on the show a couple of years previously didn't have much weight any more.

As far as theories about who Vicki's father is, the most unusual one I've heard comes from the series of "fan" novels written by Dale Clark.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
!

From what I'm told, he reveals Vicki's father to have been Judah Zachary.

Though that idea is rather shocking, I will say that Clark's vision of the series in his first book (the only one I've read) rings very, very true to the show in EVERY respect, which is something I can't say for the professional novels that have been published recently (which is not to detract from their many virtues).

-Vlad

[Dr. Eric Lang]

But it's best to realize that changes could be expected to be made as the show progressed, and I do tend to lean more now toward Elizabeth as being Victoria's mother rather than Paul Stoddard as her father.  I felt that way more after seeing the early episodes of the show with this current run on Sci-Fi.

Vlad - funny, but after seeing the very few clues they did offer in the early eps I arrived at the conclusion that Vicki was Paul Stoddard's daughter.

Clue #1: Carolyn tells Vicki in episode #2 that the disappearance of her father, Paul Stoddard, coincided with the time Vicki first began receiving anonymous donations at the orphanage - 18 years ago.

Clue #2: The painting of Betty Hanscomb. Is she Vicki's mother? Why was B. Hanscomb listed on the Collins payroll? Clearly Richard Garner lied to Vicki about B. Hanscomb being a butler since he turned right around after she left his office and phoned Elizabeth to tip her off that Vicki was "snooping around . . . but not to worry because I TOOK CARE OF IT." Although Sam seems to think Betty died before Vicki was born, his memory is plagued by an alcoholic haze.

My own personal theory is that Paul had an affair with local girl Betty Hanscomb and got her pregnant. She was paid off to keep quiet about it for awhile but after Paul "disappeared" the money stopped and she had to give up Vicki. After Elizabeth learned of Betty's death she began to send money to Vicki at the orphanage out of guilt for what she thought she'd done to her father.

This makes more sense to me than Elizabeth being Vicki's mother. Since Victoria is two years older than Carolyn, Elizabeth would have had to be pregnant during her marriage to Paul. How did she go unnoticed during those nine months, and why wouldn't she have simply passed the baby off as Paul's? I have a hard time reconciling Elizabeth having an affair while married no matter what kind of scoundrel Paul was. Paul, on the other hand, seems a very likely candidate for extra marital affairs.

[Philippe Cordier]

Your response is very well thought-out and presented, Chris.  And in fact I agreed with it before I saw the early episodes.  Prior to my viewing the early eps, I was exposed to the view on this forum that Elizabeth was Vicki's mother.  I was doubtful primarily because I just didn't see any indication in the relationship and interaction between them -- especially on Elizabeth/Joan Bennett's part -- that would give any indication whatsoever that Elizabeth was Victoria's mother.

What opened my mind to this possibility (I wasn't a fanatic convert) was seeing several subtle hints in Joan Bennett's performance in the early episodes, along with some visual clues such as Elizabeth coming down the stairs with her hair down like Vicki's, and before she comes clearly into view, she looks identical to Vicki.  I believe there were a few other hints, too.

Add to that Joan Bennett's testimony at one of the festivals that she played Elizabeth believing that Victoria was her child, and also the fact that Dan Curtis Productions authorized this revelation in the recent DS novel "Dreams of the Dark."

I also heard of a real-life case that was very similar, which made the possibility seem emotionally possible for Elizabeth (something else I had doubted).

Nevertheless, the case for Paul Stoddard as the father as you outline it is very strong, and I do find it less troubling.  So I'm not a hardliner on the issue (though you may find that others are!).

As an aside, in my "signature" line as part of my posting profile, I have excerpted a few lines from the novel "Bleak House" by Charles Dickens, which concerns, in part, an illegitimate young woman's search for identity. The passage quoted is from her meeting with the formidable Lady Deadlock, who she has been introduced to.   Her thoughts could be the very thoughts of Victoria Winters upon first meeting Elizabeth Collins Stoddard.

-Vlad

[Dr. Eric Lang]

The main problem with Elizabeth being Vicki's mother (as I see it) is the portrait of Betty Hanscomb. Who is she and why does she look so much like Vicki? As I explained, it seems obvious that Richard Garner lied about the existence of a butler named Hanscomb. Was Betty another illegitimate relative of the Collins family?

I've heard one theory that Elizabeth and Betty Hanscomb were one and the same. The fact that Betty is a derivative of Elizabeth gives this idea some credibility. Perhaps Elizabeth was leading a double life: matriarch of Collinwood by day, but slumming it with the locals down at the Blue Whale by night, under the assumed identity of local girl Betty Hanscomb.

The problem with this - and other "Elizabeth as mom" theories - is that it seems like Roger would have recognized both the portrait of Betty - and Victoria herself, for that matter - as being identical to a young Elizabeth. He makes no such connection.

I personally see no great resemblance between Alexandra Moltke and Joan Bennett and never have. I have, however, always thought that Moltke looks a great deal like Sharon Smythe (Sarah).

[Gerard]

In an interview given some time after DS left the air, Joan Bennett admitted that it was to be eventually revealed that her character Elizabeth was, indeed, Vicki's mother.  Of course, Alexandra Moltke left the series (and her two replacements didn't work out), so the story was never developed.

Gerard

[Luciaphile]

In an interview given some time after DS left the air, Joan Bennett admitted that it was to be eventually revealed that her character Elizabeth was, indeed, Vicki's mother.  Of course, Alexandra Moltke left the series (and her two replacements didn't work out), so the story was never developed.

Gerard

I've seen the interview.  My question here is was this something that Joan Bennett came up with on her own to make the character work for her or was this a story that TPTB were going to develop.

Luciaphil

[Dr. Eric Lang]

I've seen the interview.  My question here is was this something that Joan Bennett came up with on her own to make the character work for her or was this a story that TPTB were going to develop.

Luciaphil

I believe Dan Curtis DID intend for Vicki to be Elizabeth's daughter . . . at first. Obviously he lost interest in this subject after the arrival of Barnabas (possibly even before that). But given how Curtis liked to fly by the seat of his pants, so to speak, it's impossible to say what direction he might have gone in had he ever gotten around to addressing the mystery. He may have changed his mind many more times, so I think it's fair game for anyone to speculate.

The odd thing is that it seemed to me in the first 13 weeks they were still going down the "Vicki is Paul's daughter" route, given the whole Betty Hanscomb thing. If not, I have no idea where he was going with that.

I think Art Wallace was still writing for the show in the beginning and he may have been following his original bible despite DC's wishes - perhaps he hoped to convince Curtis to see it his way.

[Philippe Cordier]

The odd thing is that it seemed to me in the first 13 weeks they were still going down the "Vicki is Paul's daughter" route, given the whole Betty Hanscomb thing. If not, I have no idea where he was going with that.

It's possible that the elaborate trail of clues you refer to was designed to throw both Vicki and the viewers off track -- and that a "surprise" solution was ultimately to be revealed (i.e., that Elizabeth is Victoria's mother).

I think Art Wallace was still writing for the show in the beginning and he may have been following his original bible despite DC's wishes - perhaps he hoped to convince Curtis to see it his way.

I wonder if anyone ever asked Mr. Wallace about this in an interview.  He may have been flexible in adapting and changing his own original ideas, too.  In fact, we know that he was, as Roger was originally supposed to be killed off fairly early on!

*  *  *

P.S., BTW, in my "signature" quote, the "broken glass" refers to a looking-glass, i.e., a mirror.

[Happybat]

The main problem with Elizabeth being Vicki's mother (as I see it) is the portrait of Betty Hanscomb. Who is she and why does she look so much like Vicki?

I personally see no great resemblance between Alexandra Moltke and Joan Bennett and never have. I have, however, always thought that Moltke looks a great deal like Sharon Smythe (Sarah).

Chris2,

You and Vlad have made some interesting observations about Vicky's parentage.  I also feel that the reason Vicky's background was never explored was that the DS writers eventually lost interest in the character and moved on to other, more interesting storylines.  Perhaps the mystery surrounding Betty Hanscomb was not that she was Vicky's mother, but that Betty knew who was and had to be bribed to politely disappear.  And what if she was Elizabeth's illegitimate sister?  Was she a mere mortal or something else?  The delicious possibilities are well nigh endless!

Interesting how people's perceptions differ!  I always found that Vicky bore a striking resemblance to Elizabeth.  During a scene from an early episode where Liz has her hair down, I momentarily even mistook her for Vicky!  The motherly tenderness that Liz shows Vicky and the fact that she chooses a complete stranger to live in her house, would tend to support the idea that Vicky was indeed her daughter.  It would be a very satisfying resolution to the Vicky mystery, IMO.

I would envision an intriguing DS prequel novel about the young Elizabeth Collins, Betty Hanscomb and the dashing Paul Stoddard that would finally explain the mystery surrounding the young Victoria Winters and much else besides!