Leviathan story vs 1970PT story

[Brian]

I know many fans have blamed the Leviathan storyline for the ultimate demise of DS, but having finally re-viewed (meaning I saw both storylines on TV way back in 1969-1970, and also on VHS some years ago via the MPI tapes) those episodes yet again, this time on the DVD releases (and because of this, I'm behind on viewing DVDs by 4 sets!), I find the 1970 PT shows very boring and difficult to get through due, in part, to the  overused REBECCA and JEKYLL AND HYDE references.  At least the Leviathan story referenced, in part, the weirdness of Lovecraft, whose work was not as well known as DuMaurier and Stevenson, and thus was more fresh.  I've decided that I actually prefer the Leviathan story to 1970 PT, as the PT story now (in hindsite, of course), really comes across as an excuse to take the main actors away while they filmed the movie.

That said, at least the PT story sets up the new character of Roxanne, who would be very important in the 1970 summer and subsequent 1840 stories.

Anyone else have thoughts to share?

Brian 

[arashi]

From what I remember I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most parts of Leviathan were a real kick in the pants, while most parts of 1970PT made you want to kick the TV.

[stefan]

I think by the time they started the Levinthian story it should have been time to cut back on the supernatural time-travel stuff and back to the nuts and bolts Collins family dynamic. I've only seen the Levinthian intro (which angered the heck out of me cause it ended my fav Josette/Barnie) and it came right after 1897 which, as we all know, was just loaded with supernatural references and characters and dark stormy nights. I have nothing against what they accomplished with the supernatural, the lyrical 1795 is still wonderful to me, but DS needed more realism and character development to balance things out.

[BuzzH]

You know Brian, it's funny you posted this when you did!  I've been watching 1970 PT lately and although I *do* like it, I find it hard to get through at times.  And literally just last night I was thinking to myself that Leviathan was WAY better than PT!  It was much faster paced and I cared about the characters because they were all the core cast, not these PT folks who I don't really give a damn about.  I mean, can Quentin be more of an a-hole and Maggie more of a DOORMAT!?  She makes Beth Chavez look like a bra-burner!  I don't understand why the hell she doesn't tell Q to take a flying leap of Widow's Hill and then laugh all the way to the bank w/a huge divorce settlement.  That man can't get through a freakin' day w/out shouting at someone, usually her!  He makes me want to KICK the TV!  Quite a statement to David Selby's acting talent because I *love* RT Quentin, but HATE his PT counterpart!  Anyway, mainly I just want to plow through the rest of the plotline to get to 1995 and 1970 RT.  BTW, I *love* Leviathan, don't know why it's so maligned in fandom.   :-

[Barnabas'sBride]

I don't like either storyline, but I would choose Leviathan over PT because the real time characters are the ones I care about.

I hate the beginning of Leviathan with a passion because I loved 1897 so much and I loathed the transition between the two storylines. Overall, I dislike the Leviathan plot, but it's watchable because it has the characters I love. It also has the return of Dennis Patrick and the return of Willie in its favor. I barely resisted the urge to skip episodes with PT.... I despise both Maggie and Quentin, didn't care at all about Yeager/Cyrus, Angelique made me want to scratch my eyes out, and Roxanne.....ugh. That's the most articulate I can be on that.

[David]

The Leviathin story also had the conclusion of the Quentin/Amanda story, which was wonderful!
And the antique shop scenes had an eerie weirdness to them.
But at the end of the story, nothing came together.

But 1970 PT was a massise misfire.
This story had no connection to DS or the characters we love.
Watching the PT Quentin/Angelique, watching Bruno/Aunt Hannah/Buffy, I felt like I was suddenly watching a different show, an one with no suspense, no atmosphere, and no one to care about.

Still, every soap that ever aired has made mistakes, and most of them recovered.

For 1795 & 1897, DS showed a willingness to take risks and be creative.The result was magical.
Leviathin was another attempt at this that ALMOST worked.
From 1970PT onward, 1995 being the lone exception, DS just repeated itself over and over, and lost it's magic.

1841PT was the last straw, and almost seemed like a deliberate attempt to bury the show for good.

David

[Pansity]

I mean, can Quentin be more of an a-hole and Maggie more of a DOORMAT!?  She makes Beth Chavez look like a bra-burner!  I don't understand why the hell she doesn't tell Q to take a flying leap of Widow's Hill and then laugh all the way to the bank w/a huge divorce settlement.  That man can't get through a freakin' day w/out shouting at someone, usually her!  He makes me want to KICK the TV!  Quite a statement to David Selby's acting talent because I *love* RT Quentin, but HATE his PT counterpart!  Anyway, mainly I just want to plow through the rest of the plotline to get to 1995 and 1970 RT.  BTW, I *love* Leviathan, don't know why it's so maligned in fandom.   :-

LOL -- yeah it would be hard for him to be more of an ass and her more of a doormat unless you go back to the original Rebecca. PT is kind of fun for me, cause I like trying to spot all the stuff they swiped.

On the other hand, Leviathan is more original, and satisfying.  I think a lot of the problem is it suffers in contract with 1897 and its large multilayered story and (mostly) well developed characters.  That said, I do remember offhand certain issues in Leviathan which bugged me.  Main one that comes to mind is Professor Stokes not being quite up to his usual reasoning standards.  And the way Quentin was wasted in that respect  -- anyone with his background, not to mention another 70 years bouncing around the world seeking the cure to his curse would have been contributing much more to the supernatural knowledge needed to save the day.  I find it very unlikely that given the places and people he would have been encountering trying to remove his curse, he wouldn't have knowledge or contacts with knowledge who could have been contributing to the efforts.

Then again, I'm the warped person who is of the opinion that Professor Stokes would have (shades of Carolyn in Return to Collinwood) have called in his old professor as well  -- and I am of the decided opinion that Stokes did his grad work under one Indiana Jones.  Of course, given that Quentin might have encountered Professor Jones as well in his peripatetic travels, that could have been quite an amusing scene -- all and sundry trying to pretend they've never met before.  

[BuzzH]

Watching the PT Quentin/Angelique, watching Bruno/Aunt Hannah/Buffy, I felt like I was suddenly watching a different show, an one with no suspense, no atmosphere, and no one to care about.

I have to agree here.  I was just thinking last night, when [spoiler]Barnabas briefly goes back to RT 1970 and has a talk w/Julia about how he MUST go back and help Quentin and Maggie, I was like, "WHY!  You don't even know them, how do you know what will happen if you don't go back isnt SUPPOSED to happen?" [/spoiler]  Made me want to shake him fiercely!  Ah well...

[Pansity]

I was just thinking last night, when [spoiler]Barnabas briefly goes back to RT 1970 and has a talk w/Julia about how he MUST go back and help Quentin and Maggie, I was like, "WHY!  You don't even know them, how do you know what will happen if you don't go back isnt SUPPOSED to happen?" [/spoiler]  Made me want to shake him fiercely!  Ah well...

Barnabas REEEELY needs to learn about the Prime Directive.....

[BuzzH]

Barnabas REEEELY needs to learn about the Prime Directive.....

True, but he unfortunately has an incurable NANCY DREW complex!!  

[victoriawinters]

I suppose I'm the only one that likes both Leviathans and 1970PT.   In reminiscing about 1970PT would I really have wanted to miss Grayson Hall's Hoffman?  Elizabeth Eis as Buffie Harrington?  Paula Laurence?  Lara Parker?  Mr. Trask?  Bruno?  That scary blue plaid shirt worn by Chris Pennock?  PT Carolyn?  That liquor serving cart in the drawing room that flips up for drinks?  (Imagine having that for the blender parties.)  Surely not!

I do have a general tendency to look at the bright side of a storyline instead of seeing it as all bad.  I appreciate Dark Shadows.  I further appreciate the fact that we have our old, dear show on DVD intact with the exemption of the lost episode.  In a throw away society, this is an amazing feat.

[BuzzH]

I suppose I'm the only one that likes both Leviathan and 1970PT...That liquor serving cart in the drawing room that flips up for drinks?

Oh, I *like* PT, I just like Leviathan better.  And that liquor cabinet is the KOOLEST damn thing I've *ever* seen!  I want one for my house BAD!!!!  

I further appreciate the fact that we have our old, dear show on DVD intact with the exemption of the lost episode.  In a throw away society, this is an amazing feat.

I too think it's amazing that DS has been released to both VHS *and* DVD!  No other 'soap' can boast that feat!  

[PennyDreadful]

I suppose I'm the only one that likes both Leviathans and 1970PT.

 I like them both too.  I'm partial to Leviathans over 1970PT because it takes place in the regular time band and features the regular characters we all know and love.  But I really enjoyed 1970PT as well. 

[CyrusL]

Likewise, I enjoy parts of both strorylines quite a bit, and not just because of my "nicksake".  I actually think the opening of the Leviathan story is quite good, with the exception of the abruptness of the changeover. I wish we had seen more of the cloaked devotees of the order, and I always liked the look of the altar and the whole creepiness, especially  [spoiler]  ...when David actually opens and enters a secret hollow within the altar itself.[/spoiler] In PT, I likewise get very tired of PT Quentin's overall insufferableness, and I don't think he and KLS have that much chemistry, especially when compared to David and either Terry Crawford and Kate Jackson. PT Quentin's segments can really drag. I always like the underrated Elizabeth Eis, and this is her best showcase, and the Cyrus/Yaeger is one of the more "adult" storylines. I think they only let the perversitry go further because, well, it was Chris Pennock.
     Then again, I am one of the few people who seem to regard "The Haunted Palace" as a better entry in the Corman/Price series than most critics. I watched it again this weekend, and I love the score and it has a better and more expansive supporting cast than most of the series. I still feel it was a film that influenced DS overall, not just "Night of Dark Shadows".

Michael 
Wow, post # 700!    [/b]

[PennyDreadful]

Cyrus, I also suspect the Corman Poe films had an influence on DS, perhaps even moreso than the Universal and Hammer films.  There's a visual style to many of those great Corman Poe films that definitely reminds me of DS at times.