Thoughts on 1840

[FireRose]

BC did not pass through those years from 1840 to 1967 because he became mortal in 1840.   Also he never got back into the coffin, but that's a moot point, conisidering the mortality.   He couldn't encounter the Leviathans if he never re-entered the Collins family in 1967 in the first place.   

I admit ignorance of 1968, but even with Angelique apparently having future knowledge of herself in future times, that doesn't negate the fact that she still needed to pass through those years from 1840 onward, to show up in later years.     

Maybe that's why she didn't know her future in 1840.    The moment BC went back in time, and started changing things, she no longer had one.

Yes, but there is one little fact being forgotten...

[spoiler]When Angelique removed the curse in 1840. Barnabas didn't forget about the life he had in 1967-1970. He retained those memories of his future existance. So therefore... Angelique lifting the curse in 1840 didn't change that. If that were the case. His memory of Julia and who she was should have ceased to exist.  She should have become a total stranger to him. Which didn't occur. There was still the time travel thing also. Since Barnabas retained his memories of his future existance. I think that changing 1840 wasn't as cut and dry as it seemed.  The supernatural was involved. Just because Angelique removed the curse on Barnabas and seemed to die a mortal. Didn't mean it was all as it seemed.

The fact that Angelique was a witch and involved with Satan. I think her powers gave her the ability to jump time and show up in any time band she wished. Without having to travel through the the years as a human would. Just because she was destroyed in 1840. Didn't mean that she still didn't exist in 1860. Angelique seem to denounce her powers and change, but did she really. Angelique liked those powers far to much to just simply not have a back up plan somewhere. Because regardless of what Angelique said. When it came to Barnabas. She would never let another woman have him. I think she did what she did in 1840 simply because it served her purpose for some future plan. To bad they didn't return to 1970 and reveal the twist. Because I know there would have been one.[/spoiler]

When it comes to Dark Shadows and thinking in reality... Reality doesn't work at all.

FireRose

[Joeytrom]

You are forgetting that Barnabas had a body in 1970 under the trance of the I Ching.  Perhaps Angelique had to bring that body to 1840 and return the 1840 body back to the chained coffin.  Then the Barnabas who was cured was in his 1970 body.

That's one way to rationalize how he could be remembered in the present time as it happened "off camera".

I also think she did something similiar in 1897 "off camera".

[michael c]

oh my!

now i know i'm not ready to watch this storyline.

at the very least of it if the angelique from 1795 was still alive in 1840 wouldn't she be quite old?or do witches not age like the rest of us?

[Midnite]

[spoiler]It is correct to say, and even Barnabas says, that never felt he could love Angelique while she still had her selfish ways as a witch.  BUT when she lifts his curse, for the first time Angelique asks for no price, just that he try to love her.  She does not assume Barnabas loves her, but rather she would like him to try and see if he can develop a love for her, and that is to me what happens.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Everything Valerie/Angelique did at the climax of the 1840 storyline was to secure Barnabas' love.  After the curse was lifted and the couple had reconciled, she didn't want to save Quentin and Desmond; she wanted for Barnabas and her to go away together.  It took his we-can-never-be-more-than-friends speech to shake her out of her complacency for Quentin's plight.  After their conversation, she told his portrait (from RobinV's summary):  "'I will do what I can to help Quentin, but what I'm about to do, is really for you, Barnabas, because I love you and I need your love--if I can't prove myself to you this way, then there is no way."  Not to mention that saving Quentin and Desmond had the added benefit of dealing with her mortal enemy.  Asking someone to try to love you in exchange for a favor is, as you said, still a price; altruism is doing something without regard for your own needs.  While her plan risked her personal safety, the girl was desperate to secure his love and as she said, there was no other way.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]As we see, he gradually comes to realize that he loves Angelique as she loves him, ...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]But it wasn't gradual, and that's the biggest problem I have with the end of 1840  When Barnabas cajoled Valerie into helping Quentin and Desmond, he mentioned that the men were going to be executed in 24 hours.  And when he professed his love for her, it was for "what you did tonight."  So after hating her in 1795, 1968, 1897 and 1840, he not only set aside their history, but he went from being fond of her yet not ever capable of giving her the love she wanted to "I love you" in less than a day![/spoiler]

[spoiler]...  and that comes about when Barnabas realizes she is indeed capable of being selfless and genuinely caring and prove her love for him.[/spoiler]

For Barnabas to not see the selfishness in her motives says a lot about his naivete.

[BuzzH]

[spoiler]But it wasn't gradual, and that's the biggest problem I have with the end of 1840[/spoiler]

I think he was merely swept up in the moment after [spoiler]witnessing their look-a-likes Bramwell and Catherine in the PT room[/spoiler]

I don't think it was anything other than an "in the moment" response.  Unless, as I said earlier in this thread, that he was trying to throw her a proverbial bone as she died (his compassion for another human being--who happened to be dying--coming through).  Or, he was being selfish and trying to get off the hook w/her by having her think he loved her hoping she'd finally leave him alone.   

[Midnite]

I think he was merely swept up in the moment after [spoiler]witnessing their look-a-likes Bramwell and Catherine in the PT room[/spoiler]

That's a great point!  Have you noticed how many times love is mentioned in that ep?  I love you, you love me, you love him, I don't love him, he loves you, AAAAA!  Duh, of COURSE you have, considering how much you love (oops, there it is again   ) Bramwell and Catherine.  And I'm pretty sure that at least one "I love you" comes from Quentin and Daphne in that episode.

What do you suppose was up with Gordon Russell (or was it Violet Wells?) that day? 

[BuzzH]

considering how much you love (oops, there it is again   ) Bramwell and Catherine.  And I'm pretty sure that at least one "I love you" comes from Quentin and Daphne in that episode.

True, but then I love Wuthering Heights too. 

What do you suppose was up with Gordon Russell (or was it Violet Wells?) that day? 

Well, it was episode 1197, but the DS ep guide I have here at the office doesn't list the writer, I'd have to go look in my concordance at home.  Was VW still w/the show that late?

[Midnite]

Well, it was episode 1197, but the DS ep guide I have here at the office doesn't list the writer, I'd have to go look in my concordance at home.  Was VW still w/the show that late?

The DS Program Guide lists Gordon Russell, but Wells, though officially gone, continued to write scripts unoffically.

I wonder if one of them is responsible for that horrible Barney song.   

[BuzzH]

I wonder if one of them is responsible for that horrible Barney song.   

Which one, there were a couple!  

[Midnite]

Which one, there were a couple!  

Oops, sorry.  Barney the Dinosaur.  "I love you, you love me..."  You're lucky to have been spared that phenom, believe me. 

[Gothick]

I meant to post sometime ago that I think Luciaphil deserves some sort of word for her use of the term "fanwank" in connection with this storyline.

Genius!

*so not worthy*

G.

[Angelique Wins]

I caught most of the 1840 episodes and 1840PT the last time the show was aired.  Hadn't seem them since 70/71.  I had forgotten how incredibly annoyed I was the way the Barn/Angelique story ended.  That's one of the things that actually prompted me to write my OWN ending.     Scenes I missed?  Didn't you want a scene between Ang and Julia battling over WHOSE method would work best to help BARN?  Or realize that they needed to work together? Could you have easily LOST the entire TRIAL?  Ew.

And one HAD to wonder what in the world JULIA was up to.  A gunshot, yelling, fighting, and Barn bellowing JULIA!!!!  It took the next episode before she came wandering down the stairs.  (ok, I know it wasn't her day to be on payroll, but still.)

And please.  That WHOLE house/estate and NONE of the servants saw Trask sneaking in 'the back way'?  Pink slips are in the mail!

[BuzzH]

And please.  That WHOLE house/estate and NONE of the servants saw Trask sneaking in 'the back way'?  Pink slips are in the mail! 

LOL AW!  I often wonder how it is that non family members or friends of the family just walk into Collinwood like it was a public place and not a private residence!  And at all hours of the night too!  Only on a show like DS! 

[Charles_Ellis]

On the other hand, Lamar was a regular vistor to Collinwood due to his earlier pursuit of Samantha Collins' sister Roxanne Drew.  Therefore if he had been seen by various servants upon entering the estate , they would not think it unsual as he was a family friend.  In a historical comparison, the Dallas police didn't give a moment's thought to seeing Jack Ruby on the premises when Oswalsd was about to be moved to another facility- as a local figure with somewhat shady connections including friends on the force, he was a familiar face.  Pity no one bothered to check either Trask or Ruby for weapons.....

[BuzzH]

On the other hand, Lamar was a regular vistor to Collinwood due to his earlier pursuit of Samantha Collins' sister Roxanne Drew.  Therefore if he had been seen by various servants upon entering the estate , they would not think it unsual as he was a family friend.  In a historical comparison, the Dallas police didn't give a moment's thought to seeing Jack Ruby on the premises when Oswalsd was about to be moved to another facility- as a local figure with somewhat shady connections including friends on the force, he was a familiar face.  Pity no one bothered to check either Trask or Ruby for weapons.....

Leave it to Charles to put a 'logical' spin on DS, LOL!