COMPLEX CHARACTERS

[VAM]

After responding to another post, I thought this would be a good topic for discussion.  Two characters that I feel cover this topic are Angelique and Joshua. Perhaps you may suggest others that fit into this category and not necessarily keeping within the 1795 storyline....

[ProfStokes]

I agree with you completely about Joshua.

1897's Judith Collins was really someone to watch.  I greatly admired her strength and intelligence.  However, there were also hints that she felt bitter and slighted by life.  I remember a time when she complained to Rachel that Grandma Edith disliked her because she couldn't sing well; Jenny Collins (another great character) also accused Judith of being cruel to her out of jealousy over Jenny's beauty and talent.  (Grandma Edith loved to hear Jenny sing.)  Judith was obviously carrying some mental and emotional baggage around with her.  

Gabriel Collins in 1840 was extremely complex.  He came from a very troubled background and had a lot of rage that he allowed to spill out in ways both justified and not.

David Collins was also a complex character in the beginning.  There's a reason why he's earned the title "The Little Monster."  However, as he mellowed in time, the strengths of the character were also lost.

After reading "Another View of Trask," I'd have to say that he's a pretty convoluted character too.  Also from 1795, I would classify Naomi Collins and Ben Stokes as complex.  Naomi has led a very difficult life, in spite of (and because of) her high status.  Her boredom has driven her to alcoholism and her cold husband bosses and belittles her; yet, while giving in to her inner demons, she remains a source of strength and morality to those around her.  Specifically, the scenes where she encourages Joshua to return to work after Abigail's death and her recent confrontation with him at the Old House come to mind.  Ben Stokes is a good man facing opposition from nearly everyone around him.  At times life at Collinwood became so tough for him that I wondered why he didn't simply allow Joshua to carry out his threat to return him to prison.  However, I consider it a testament to the character's loyalty to Barnabas that Ben's willing to stay and voluntarily serve him, knowing what will be expected of him (unlike Willie, who was forced into servitude and had to deal with it as best he could.)  In the early episodes of 1795, Ben clearly resented Joshua and showed traces of Matthew Morgan's violent streak; now he does his best to protect the Collins family, even those members that he doesn't especially like, such as Abigail and Joshua.  I appreciate the way that Ben's character has developed over time.

ProfStokes

[Cassandra]

 Two characters that I feel cover this topic are Angelique and Joshua.

Yes, Angelique was most definetely a complex character. She had so many emotions all wrapped up in one, with jealousy being her most famous. One could never tell which one she'd display next. One minute she's professing her love for Barnabas, telling him that "he is her master, she is his servant," and the next minute, she's choking him!

SPOILER........SPOILER.......SPOILER..........SPOILER........

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I would say that Jeb Hawkes is another complex one. He started out hating just about everyone, (except Carolyn) and would kill just about anyone who got in his way without a care in the world. He seemed so full of hate and anger, even as a child, and only got worse as he grew up. Those who loved and cared for him didn't fare much better with him either. He acted like a spoiled brat around those who were suppose to protect him and hated to listen to their advice, even though they were all looking out for his welfare. When he and Carolyn finally got together, it was nice to see him suddenly change for the better. I think even Barnabas was shocked to see this,   and didn't quite believe it at first. Could you blame him? After all he had did to him. I believe Julia was also skeptic as well. And you really couldn't blame them for it either. Here was a guy who would kill you in a minute if he didn't like the way you looked at him,[nerv] then all of a sudden, here he is begging them for their help. I believe that it was Carolyn's love that did change him for the better, and once that happened he suddenly wanted to denounce what he was and remain human. These two seemed so happy together and for once,Carolyn was happy with someone.Unfortunately,  though others weren't as forgiving as Julia & Barnabas and felt it was necessary to do away with him by destroying him.

[ROBINV]

Barnabas was, IMHO, DS' most complex character.

Look at how many changes he underwent as the series progressed:

He started out an evil vampire with only two things on his mind--blood (cattle or human) and turning a sweet young thang into Josette.  His single-mindedness in both endeavors was more than a tad nuts, as was Barnabas himself.  Not so surprising, when you realize he was stuck in a coffin for so many years, unable to get out or find blood.

Barnabas becomes the Collins family protector, saving them from ghosts with evil intent (Quentin, Gerard), moving forward, backward and sideways in history to ensure their survival.  Given that there was one point that he wanted to kill David Collins, the family's only Collins-named heir, that's coming a long way, baby!

Other complex characters in present day were Liz, David, Burke, Julia, Willie, and Roger.  Sam, too, but to a lesser extent.

SPOILERS...

In 1897, we had Quentin, Judith, Count Petofi, Charity Trask/Pansy Faye, Magda, Jenny.  All were multi-faceted individuals with very distinct qualities.

Jeb was complex, but ridiculous.  His change from villain to hero was too fast and sloppily done.  I never bought his love for Carolyn, although they did look good together--and she did marry him.

In 1840, Samantha, Gerard, and Gabriel were layered characters that came across as three-dimensional.

And yes, thinking along the same lines as my discussion about Barnabas, Angelique evolved from a vengeful witch in love to a far more complex woman.  To give her credit, she tried to get over Barnabas and start a new life when she married Sky; too bad she fell for someone who turned out to be a Leviathan.  Her childish efforts to make Maggie fall in love with Quentin really pissed me off at the writers, because I felt Angelique should have been beyond such petty devices by that time.

I know a lot of people don't like the fact that Barnabas professed his love for Angelique, but at the time it was first shown, it seemed appropriate to the fans.  These two crazy kids were from the same era; both had suffered being supernatural creatures; both had grown as individuals.

Take from this what you will, and ProfStokes and Cassandra, excellent discussions on this topic!

Love, Robin  

[Cassandra]

Robin
Her childish efforts to make Maggie fall in love with Quentin really pissed me off at the writers, because I felt Angelique should have been beyond such petty devices by that time.

I felt that was a stupid thing to do also. It just didn't fit in anywhere. It seemed out of character for Angelique at the time as well. The worst part however, was the fact that the writers just left you hanging with it! We never did find out what happened here, did we? ?!?

[Luciaphile]

Joshua, Judith, Carolyn, Roger, Elizabeth, Burke (pre Anthony George), Cyrus Longworth, Buffie Harrington are my picks.

Most of the rest of them are pretty straightforward, IMHO.

Luciaphil

[Midnite]

I'm confused about what criteria we're using to qualify if someone is complex.

I thought complex referred to layers, as when a character has more than one side to their nature (Cyrus would be textbook because of the drug), but I didn't think it meant the ability of a character to change or grow in time.

[Luciaphile]

I'm confused about what criteria we're using to qualify if someone is complex.

I thought complex referred to layers, as when a character has more than one side to their nature (Cyrus would be textbook because of the drug), but I didn't think it meant the ability of a character to change or grow in time.

That's a good question.  I was interpreting it as layers to the character (using Cyrus as my example, I think all that stuff was there to begin with, just buried and the drugs brought it out).

Luciaphil