barnabas collins...skirt chaser

[Raineypark]

I think it was one thing to learn how to use in-door plumbing and talk on a telephone, and quite another to re-learn how to be with women.  In the 18th century, a man of Barnabas' station knew that there were women one married and women one "enjoyed", and all other females of the species were outside his concern.

In the 20th century, there were hardly any rules for him to understand at all.  Add to that his bred-in-the-bone belief that he was "better" than ordinary men, and you had one very confused, out-of-his-element man who couldn't  behave the way he was taught, and wouldn't  behave the way he was now expected to.

I haven't repeated this heresy in a while, so for the newer members let me say it again: I loathe the character of Barnabas.  But even I have to have a shred of sympathy for the man when it came to understanding the 20th Century woman. 

[stefan]

Add to that his bred-in-the-bone belief that he was "better" than ordinary men, and you had one very confused, out-of-his-element man who couldn't  behave the way he was taught, and wouldn't  behave the way he was now expected to.

Barnabas is by far my favorite character but I love this insightful description. I totally concur that the aristocratic Barnabas felt he was better than the ordinary folk, being a Collins and all. This revealed itself when talking to Jeremiah's grave how they "laughed at the ...something (forget exactly what) of others ... but what fools we turned out to be". I just wonder, though, how and what he was taught? I can't imagine that Joshua taught him anything that wasn't business related and what exactly did his mother teach him? Maybe he developed his attitude in his exclusive boarding school or just by being in his upscale society.

[BuzzH]

This revealed itself when talking to Jeremiah's grave how they "laughed at the ...something (forget exactly what) of others ... but what fools we turned out to be".

The line was, "How we laughed at the idiocy of others".  One of my all time favorite scenes btw, and a favorite line of dialog as well.  

Maybe he developed his attitude in his exclusive boarding school or just by being in his upscale society.

I suspect he got his attitude, such as it was, in a snooty boarding school and just hanging out w/the upper crust.  But still, as snobbish as he was, he was more "down to earth" than most men of his station (certainly more than his pop) IMHO.  He seems to waiver between the two--some days he's a stuck up ass, others he's a really nice, down-to-earth regular guy.  Another reason I find him so fascinating, and hard to completely hate.  Although some days I want to kick his ass-particularly the way he sometimes talks to Julia.  Just watched the episode where she [spoiler]goes back to 1897 to help him and he's YELLING at her when she says they should return to 1969 because they've prevented Quentin's death and saved David.  He didn't have to yell at her, he could have calmly, but FIRMLY if he felt it necessary, said he was staying because they still needed to help Chris in the future.  He INSISTS she stay as well, I would have preferred if he'd said, nicely, "Julia, I *must* stay to help Chris too, and I'd really like you to stay w/me and help me.  But I won't force you, if you want to return, go ahead."  When he yells at her I want to reach through the TV and bitch-slap the back of his head![/spoiler]He so infuriates me sometimes!  And she LETS him!  Even worse....Okay, got that off my chest!  

[stefan]

But still, as snobbish as he was, he was more "down to earth" than most men of his station (certainly more than his pop) IMHO.  He seems to waiver between the two--some days he's a stuck up ass, others he's a really nice, down-to-earth regular guy.  Another reason I find him so fascinating, and hard to completely hate.

I agree with this too. What is so baffling and, I guess I can use the word, fascinating (and I'm not sure if this is due to Frid's performance or not) is that, at least before he became a vampire - (I always see Barnabas as before and after vampire, as I think he obviously changed for the worse after he became one, even during the periods he was human again) is the contradictions between some of his actions (the fling with Angelique was unbelievably stupid and callous) and how gentle and warm his voice, expressions and mannerisms could be. Also, Frid's sad brown eyes tended to create sympathy for the character, even when he's a creep. But, in any case, I think the tragedy of Barnabas is that he picked the wrong woman to toss around and paid three-pence for his faults and stupidity and thus his saga began.

[CyrusL]

I think it was one thing to learn how to use in-door plumbing and talk on a telephone, and quite another to re-learn how to be with women.  In the 18th century, a man of Barnabas' station knew that there were women one married and women one "enjoyed", and all other females of the species were outside his concern.

In the 20th century, there were hardly any rules for him to understand at all.  Add to that his bred-in-the-bone belief that he was "better" than ordinary men, and you had one very confused, out-of-his-element man who couldn't  behave the way he was taught, and wouldn't  behave the way he was now expected to.

You know, one of the biggest problems with the '91 revival is that Ben Cross played those notes of the character over and over, like those days when you can't get a bad song out of your head.  But unlike Frid, he didn't know how to balance Barnabas with sufficient sympathy. I think stefan is right that Frid comunicated so much of the character within his eyes.

Michael 

[BuzzH]

You know, one of the biggest problems with the '91 revival is that Ben Cross played those notes of the character over and over, like those days when you can't get a bad song out of your head.  But unlike Frid, he didn't know how to balance Barnabas with sufficient sympathy. I think stefan is right that Frid comunicated so much of the character within his eyes.

I have to agree w/this.  Again, I've said it before, but for the benefit of any newbies, Frid did a lot of acting w/his eyes, and he does have that 'sad, puppy-dog look' about him in those eyes too.  Ben Cross played Barnabas I think the way DC had originally intended for Frid to play him on the old show, and that's why I couldn't care less for the '91 Barny.  No hint of a 'reluctant vampire' in his performance.  It's been said before by many of us that if Frid had played Barnabas the way DC had envisioned, he indeed would have been staked w/in 13 weeks and the show probably wouldn't have lasted through the end of '67.

[BuzzH]

except he show an unusual insensitivity, stupidity and poor judgment in choosing his fiancees' maid for his bed romp.

Actually, as I recall it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't watched 1795 in a while, Barnabas 'dallied' w/Angelique BEFORE he even met Josette.  I seem to recall him saying to Angie something to the effect that he did have a good time w/her, but then he met Josette and he knew she was the one for him.  Now, having said this, I have no illusions that had he never met Josette he'd have ended up w/Angelique.  I mean, she was a MAID for god's sake, WAY below his socially acceptable idea of a wife.  But let's face it, we don't have enough information about their fling to know if he strung her along w/promises of marriage, or at the very least, continuing the affair after he married Josette.  He may indeed have made empty promises to her in which case maybe he got just what he deserved.  But I kind of got the feeling that after Josette entered the equation, he completely broke it off w/Angelique w/no promises.  If this indeed was the case, she really has no reason to be pissed at him if he promised her nothing.  I'm SURE he didn't point a loaded musket at her head to get her into bed and she WAS a consenting adult was she not?  Just my two cents...

[stefan]

Actually, as I recall it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't watched 1795 in a while, Barnabas 'dallied' w/Angelique BEFORE he even met Josette.  I seem to recall him saying to Angie something to the effect that he did have a good time w/her, but then he met Josette and he knew she was the one for him.  Now, having said this, I have no illusions that had he never met Josette he'd have ended up w/Angelique.  I mean, she was a MAID for god's sake, WAY below his socially acceptable idea of a wife.  But let's face it, we don't have enough information about their fling to know if he strung her along w/promises of marriage, or at the very least, continuing the affair after he married Josette.  He may indeed have made empty promises to her in which case maybe he got just what he deserved.  But I kind of got the feeling that after Josette entered the equation, he completely broke it off w/Angelique w/no promises.  If this indeed was the case, she really has no reason to be pissed at him if he promised her nothing.  I'm SURE he didn't point a loaded musket at her head to get her into bed and she WAS a consenting adult was she not?  Just my two cents...

My Barnabas illusions would like to believe this but according to 1795 (don't know if there are other stories circulating around re that time period like books etc) Barnabas knew both of them at the same time while visiting Martinigue. He struck a friendship with Josette and apparently was interested in her right from the start but Josette, as a more reserved type who didn't understand her own mind, was friendly but distant. Looks like there was no engagement or physical relationship between them. Meanwhile, apparently, Barnabas, believing Josette really didn't care for him, or was not going to marry him, had a sexual fling with Josette's maid, Angelique, who probably set out immediately to seduce him as was her nature. Angelique freely admitted that she tried to seduce Josette's suitors though I do believe Angelique did care for Barnabas in her own twisted way. After Barnabas left Martinique, Josette and Barnabas started to write and it is through their letters that the relationship developed. Josette realized she loved him and eventually agreed to marry him. Though, we also later learn, in 1795, that Josette actually loved him the moment she saw him but, as she admitted to the Countess Duprey, but I guess didn't realize it. I think that's the real scoop.

[Midnite]

Actually, as I recall it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't watched 1795 in a while, Barnabas 'dallied' w/Angelique BEFORE he even met Josette.  I seem to recall him saying to Angie something to the effect that he did have a good time w/her, but then he met Josette and he knew she was the one for him.

What Barn said about it when Angelique dropped by his room during her first night in America was, "I didn't know that we were going to be married then.  To be honest, I thought I was in love with Josette but I didn't realize she was in love with me.  But now that we've written ... well, you and I... It's impossible."

[Midnite]

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[arashi]

I think stefan is right that Frid comunicated so much of the character within his eyes.

I have to agree w/this.  Again, I've said it before, but for the benefit of any newbies, Frid did a lot of acting w/his eyes, and he does have that 'sad, puppy-dog look' about him in those eyes too.  Ben Cross played Barnabas I think the way DC had originally intended for Frid to play him on the old show, and that's why I couldn't care less for the '91 Barny.  No hint of a 'reluctant vampire' in his performance.  It's been said before by many of us that if Frid had played Barnabas the way DC had envisioned, he indeed would have been staked w/in 13 weeks and the show probably wouldn't have lasted through the end of '67.

And I would have to agree too. Jonathan Frid has that amazing ability to really emote with his eyes and facial expressions. As much as I enjoy the '91 series, I do agree that Ben Cross does not share this ability, nor did I ever once share the sympathy for his Barnabas that I do with Frid's Barnabas. Two totally seperate animals.

[BuzzH]

Okay, I'm gonna do a "180" on my statements that Barnabas was an upper crust snob.  I'm remembering now that really, we got TWO different Barnabas'.  The first one, pre-1795, we got mean, creepy, cruel Barnabas, who thought NOTHING of destroying Maggie or anyone else who got in his way.  Then we go back to 1795 and we get sweet, sensitive, cute as a bug's ear Barnabas who's kind to everyone.  Hell, he probably went out of his way NOT to steps on bugs, LOL!  This is the Barnabas who's devastated by what he thinks is Josette's and Jeremiah's betrayal.

Even when Vickie comes back to 1968, he's "different" from the jerk we saw prior to 1795 who sent Dave Woodard's ghost after Julia etc...True, he's got a definate EDGE to him, and killing is easier for him, especially when he's under the curse again (1897 etc...) but he's a NICE vampire!  I just watched the ep in Leviathan where [spoiler]he tells Willie he's free to go live his life and to not worry about him and his problems.  He's VERY sweet to Willie, almost like Willie's his younger brother or something.  It really was a nice scene for John and Jonathan to play too.[/spoiler]

[michael c]

barnabas is still a meanie for a few episodes immediately following 1795.in particular he does one infuriatingly inconsistent thing...

[spoiler]he bites vicki.something even "mean" early barnabas couldn't bring himself to do.it was an integral part of the plot.[/spoiler]

we don't really get "nice" barnabas again until he and vicki get into the car crash and he is treated by dr.lang.

[MagnusTrask]

Michael/Cyrus... the remark about a repeated bad song you can't get out of your head was great.

Barnabas was relatively egalitarian as regards Ben.   I mean, he treated him as a person when no one else did.    I don't have tapes for 1795 after BC "dies".    But up until then, BC's empathy and humanity reached the point of innocence, and became heartbreaking.    "Brink of death?!" I think was the line.    A bit of residual upper-classedness doesn't take away from his basic nature as an achingly good person, to me.

[Angelique Wins]

Only one left - Angelique. I felt his declaration in 1840 was way, way out of character. I couldn't believe a word of it. For me it was just a way for the writers to tie up the storyline to change everything to PT and the characters suffered for it. Him telling her that he'd forgiven her - perhaps in the hope it might give her peace - would have been much more believable and a lot more powerful. Best of all, it wouldn't have belittled so many people he loved (Josette, his family in 1795, Victoria...etc - honestly, that's what bothers me most of all).

*Ducks flying brandy glasses*,

I just BOUIGHT those glasses too!!!  Oh well.  They gave their lives for a good cause...

 Judy