adam and jeb

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Want my take on why so many fans couldn't get excited about the " Leviathan" arc?  I think it was because it was a switch from "gothic" to "science fiction" and the switch was not welcome.

That's a theory that has tended to pop up ever since the mid-'80s after the Leviathans storyline resurfaced in syndication - and I'm sure there's certainly truth in it. But the interesting thing is that back when Leviathans was originally aired I can't recall that being a complaint with the people who wrote into the various daytime fan mags to rant. The absolute biggest complaint with those fans was that they didn't like the fact that Barnabas became "evil." They saw him as the "hero" of the show and they absolutely hated the switch. Another almost universal complaint was they hated that Barn and Julia were on the outs because they saw their relationship as the core relationship of the show and they were disgusted that it seemed to be being ripped apart. The Quentin contingent absolutely hated that he basically had nothing to do but act like a clueless mope. And then there were numerous complaints that the writing, which many saw as having been rich, vibrant and humorous during the 1897 storyline, suddenly became flat, lifeless and humorless. But it was the poor Todds who just couldn't seem to win at all because at first people complained that Megan and Philip were too boring - but after Leviathans took its switch in direction, they complained Megan and Philip were too over the top.

[Gothick]

Interesting thread.  I personally don't see the Leviathan arc as sci fi, at all.  I see it as a reworking of the Lovecraftian cosmic evil vein which is still well within the defined purview of the Gothic, as I see it.  I thought it was interesting that in one snippet of dialogue, Angelique described the Leviathans as "creatures of the underworld," which suggested something out of Saami or old Finnish lore (anybody out there ever read the Kalevala?).  Also, the cloaks-and-eyeliner look of the Leviathan beings we saw, along with their massive stone altar or "cairn," projected an image of an ancient evil that had become ingrained in Earth, even if their origin lay beyond the stars.

I also remember people complaining about Leviathan and specifically not liking it because Barnabas was evil.  These were people who, like me, had started watching during the 1795 or 1968 periods and had never seen the original introduction of Barnabas story.

In terms of sci fi, the Dr. Lang and creation of Adam and Eve storyline seems the closest DS came to the genre.  There were sci fi components to the Cyrus Longworth and Tim Stokes storylines in PT 1970, while Quentin's Stairway through Time in 1840 was reminiscent of something from the very early days of sci fi; the nineteenth century prophetic/metaphysical kind of thing.

G.

[PennyDreadful]

 Gothick, thank you for replying in such an intelligent and articulate manner.  I agree.  The Leviathan storyline is not sci-fi as far as I can tell.  The storyline deals with an ancient evil invading the present, which is a feature of the gothic genre.  The storyline is filled with ancient evil, imposing structures, archaic magic and the supernatural. I think, perhaps, the confusion comes from the mistaken assumption that the Leviathans are "aliens." 

I don't think DS ever ventures too far from the Gothic tone.  I think of the stairway through time as a mystical gate through time - a talisman of sorts.  The occult facilitates time travel on DS, as opposed to the futuristic contraptions used for time travel in science fiction.  The use of the occult & the supernatural to achieve time-travel allows for a less heavy handed sci-fi  aspect, which IMO, would ruin the mood of the series.

  As for the honorable Doctors Lang and Longworth - we are still well within the realms of classic gothic horror here.  In science fiction, science is somewhat championed.  For example, the amazing futuristic devices and technology allow the scientist to do amazing things.  In gothic horror, we get a bleak view of technology.  I.E. man's tampering in the forbidden THROUGH the use of technology equals disastrous results.  The tampering in the forbidden is classic gothic horror fare.  Admittedly, I don't know too much about sci-fi, but from the little I've seen, science can be a good thing.  In the gothic, science inevitably goes very, very wrong.

   I'd say parallel time was the closest DS came to sci-fi BUT, I'm going to venture a guess that the gate to PT exists at Collinwood because of all the supernatural time-tampering which took place there.

   Oh, and for the record:

  1.) I liked the Leviathan and Adam storylines quite a lot.
  2.) I definitely liked 1795 and 1897 more than Leviathan and Adam.
  3.) IMO Josette is Barnabas' "twue wuv" but they are destined to never be together 

  Take Scare,
 Penny Dreadful

PS - I can definitely see the similarities between Adam and Jeb.  Good call mscbryk.

[petofi]

I agree that the sci-fi element isn't as stong as it looks on the face of it.  The Longworth- Yaeger thing in Parallel Time was more about the good vs evil that the original  "Jekyll and Hyde" underscored.  It's more about an imbalance in the light and dark sides of human nature, which results in mayhem and horror. As for Leviathan, the Lovecraftian idea of a race of ancient, subterranian "things" which are brought forth through occult means, is definitely supernatural, as far as I'm concerned.  I agree that parallel time is more likely a supernaturally-based rip in the continuum, just as
[spoiler]Quentin's 1840 "stairway through time" seemed more about alchemy and the occult than the "science" of, say, H G Wells' "The Time Machine."  Personally, I always enjoyed both the Leviathan and Parallel Time storylines, though not my absolute favorites.  I recall the main complaint in the soap mags of the time to be, in general, the poor crafting and characterizations, particularly in the Leviathan story.  People were, indeed, unhappy about Barnabas being a villian, though I found that intriguing and somewhat (overused DS word alert) terrifying.  I remember that, as a child, I was always confident that Barnabas would come to his senses, and the wait for that eventuality added much to the suspense and enjoyment of the story for me (and, most likely, many others).  I also remember, when I was first watching the story, that I and many of my friends at school used to revel in imitating the "heavy breathing" Leviathan monster (much to the horror of the adults around us), and that we were all obsessed with Barnabas' taped intonation of : "There is no margin for error.  Punishment is necessary."  Funny the things you pick up as a kid, huh?  I was ten years old at the time.[/spoiler]

I felt that there was a change in tone and mood in the Leviathan/Parallel Time stories, but it was not about SciFi, for me, it was about pushing the gothic envelope into different areas, something DC always seemed to push his creative team to do.

Petofi

[PennyDreadful]

I felt that there was a change in tone and mood in the Leviathan/Parallel Time stories, but it was not about SciFi, for me, it was about pushing the gothic envelope into different areas, something DC always seemed to push his creative team to do.

 Precisely!  I couldn't agree more.

 The Adam and Leviathan stories followed two of DS' most popular and beloved storylines (1795 and 1897), which may have added fuel to some of the harsher fan antagonism towards these storylines.

[petofi]

BTW Penny Dreadful, I love your end quote from the Dark Shadows Vampire Fan Club materials - I gotta get one of those Tombstone cards quick!

Petofi

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I gotta get one of those Tombstone cards quick!

I wish I could locate mine, but I still haven't come across it. Apparently I packed it away REALLY safely. 

[Gothick]

Thanks, Penny Dreadful, for that marvelously literate discussion of the stance towards science in the Gothic.  All those points are very relevant to Dark Shadows.  Among the classic Universal films, one of the ones that best illustrates your points is The Invisible Ray, a wonderful but often overlooked Karloff/Lugosi thriller (from 1936, I believe).  The character of Dr. Praetorius (who may be my all time favorite horror movie character), as portrayed by the fabulous Ernest Thesiger, is an even better example of the mad scientist as diabolist.  (Hell, Praetorius even created his very own mini-devil!)

There's a novel by fan author Dale Clark which provides a supernatural explanation for the Parallel Time portal, similar to what you suggest here.  I can't recall the title of it--it was the first of a lengthy series.

Best, Gothick

[michael c]

i'm in agreement in that this isn't reading as 'sci-fi' to me.

it's certainly weird and different than any other storyline but it's still 'gothic' in my mind.there isn't anything more gothic than the antique shop set.it's classic horror stuff.

i also kind of liked barnabas' brief return to evil ways.the character had become sort of a goody-goody and i appreciated the menace that he brought to his early work on the show.

[Evan Hanley]

Ok!!!!! I guess iam the only persom who likes the leviathin period. Besides all the humbert allen astredo characters being my favorites. I love Chris Pennock as Jeb Hawkes, Cyrusjohn yegergabrel. I dont like him as sebastion though he gets on my nerves. The Leviathin period is the best!!!! I can watch that period of the show netime. That is the period that really got me into the show. As far as Adam goes i love the begining of the adam storyline. But once Adam meets nicholas it all goes down from there. And iam a huge nicholas fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once Adam starts being demanding he just gets on my last nerve!!!!!!!

Evan Hanley

[IluvBarnabas]

I must say I enjoy the Leviathan story more than the Adam storyline though I can tolerate the Adam story (even when the guy pisses me off sometimes!)

Does anyone think it might have been a good idea to bring Adam back during the Leviathan storyline? (Now before some of you holler and scream hear me out). He would have been quite a match for Jeb for Carolyn's affections....it would have been neat to have seen Jeb and Adam duke it out for Carolyn's hand.

One might think Adam might have an advantage being so tall and strong but we mustn't forget Jeb can turn into that breathing-whatever-he-was at almost any time.

[adamsgirl]

Now that would have been an interesting twist to bring Adam back to face Jeb for Carolyn's affections! I love that idea. Personally, the Adam storyline was given short shrift, in my opinion. I mean, we were supposed to believe that his connection with Barnabas was what kept Barnabas alive, and that whatever happened to Adam would happen to Barnabas. That fell by the wayside completely. Conversely, when Barnabas once again become a vampire, does Adam suffer the same fate? Too many loose ends there!

Were I to bring Adam back, he'd already have had the promised plastic surgery (Prof. Stokes talked about it) to remove those scars. He'd have traveled extensively and become quite erudite and educated. Next to Jeb, who was a rough guy, he could have swept Carolyn off her feet. Just dreaming, though!