In Defense of Roger Davis -

I haven't seen the reunion tape that was talked about where he is supposed to have criticized or mocked Frid.  Someone else later made the point that RD is not the first DS actor/actress to have made comments about Frid's difficulty with memorizing lines.  Were Davis' comments more belittling than what other DS actors have said on this subject, or how were RD's comments different from what others have said many times?

I bought a DS reunion tape where no-one makes in fun of anyone. The tape I'm referring to I borrowed from a library. I've heard on other boards and Internet sites that others poked fun at Frid's bad memory. But in the tape I'm referring to Davis started to immitate "someone" talking lover-like to KLS/Josette and then very obviously searching for the teleprompter, looking straight past her. KLS just grinned but I was horrified and decided if this was the tone of these fests I'm sure not going. I suspect many of these people will be using the fests to sell something. KLS her books, I understand Nancy B. wanted to perform a cabaret skit she was doing. In the tape I own, Louis Edmonds did a dance routine (pretty funny actually). And, Frid did a fantastic reading of Poe's "the tell-tale heart". It was great but obviously he wanted to promote his popular stage routines. I don't mind this aspect of it as, quite realistically, the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.

the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.

It's been my understanding that whenever talk of discontinuing the Fests has come up, interestingly enough, it's actually been several of the actors who have persuaded Jim Pierson to continue them. If not for the actors' enthusiasm, the Fests might have ended years ago.

I don't blame any of the actors either for promoting their current work at the fests or trying out new things to a receptive audience.  It would be depressing to think that you have accomplished nothing else satisfying in your professional life other than something you did forty years ago.   The festivals do bring some element of the media spotlight which doesn't hurt in terms of exposure for those who are still acting.

As for the making fun of people - that really only started in the past ten years or so and I think it may have come about because the actors who poke fun or criticize their DS colleagues are more comfortable wtih the audience.  They don't think in terms of how tacky it comes across to new fans or even those who think it's just rude to do that.  They let their hair down.    I can't help but wonder how much it affects Frid's desire to return to the fests. He has said that he now believes that most of the DS fandom base is just about making fun of the show and the actors screwing up.  He has said that publicly too.  I don't see the making fun of him constantly as being bothersome to him personally but it certainly would not entice him to want to leave the comforts of his home in Canada for a weekend spent discussing line flubs from forty years ago.  It's just old and certainly not worth hearing about in person.  Frid has seen enough of it when he has visited this board and other DS boards to wanna spend a weekend doing it all over again, IMO.
 
Nancy

Jonathan plans on putting more readings on his website in the upcoming year.  It's a matter of going through the recorded material and selecting from there or deciding to do a new reading altogether.  He has been encouraged by fans do to this, those who visit his website and send comments, so that's what he will be doing with the site.

One of the reasons JF put together readings at the fests in the early days is that he didn't know the answers to many questions fans asked him about plotlines and other characters.

Nancy

And, Frid did a fantastic reading of Poe's "the tell-tale heart". It was great but obviously he wanted to promote his popular stage routines. I don't mind this aspect of it as, quite realistically, the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.

Jonathan plans on putting more readings on his website in the upcoming year.  It's a matter of going through the recorded material and selecting from there or deciding to do a new reading altogether.  He has been encouraged by fans do to this, those who visit his website and send comments, so that's what he will be doing with the site. 

I was so impressed with his reading (and with it I could see other aspects of his acting talent as he sure was good) that I did an Internet search re his stage act he did in Universities and towns. I really want to attend one but now understand he is retired. That I would have loved to have seen.

It's been my understanding that whenever talk of discontinuing the Fests has come up, interestingly enough, it's actually been several of the actors who have persuaded Jim Pierson to continue them. If not for the actors' enthusiasm, the Fests might have ended years ago.

This is true.  I remember well the "last" Fest in Brooklyn in 2003 when, during the cast reunion, the stars (KLS mostly) pulled Jim up on stage and basically read him the riot act for planning on stopping the Fests.  He back-peddled and said they were planning "something" for 2004 (which turned out to be the Fest--although they NOW call them weekends and NOT Fests,  don't know WHY they don't call them Fests anymore when that's *clearly* what they are --in Tarrytown).  I have no doubt that at least 50% (but probably more than that) of the reason the stars want to continue them is to sell their wares.  I have no problem w/this however, they have every right to make a living any way they can same as the rest of us, and if the fans are BUYING...! 

As for the making fun of people - that really only started in the past ten years or so and I think it may have come about because the actors who poke fun or criticize their DS colleagues are more comfortable wtih the audience.  They don't think in terms of how tacky it comes across to new fans or even those who think it's just rude to do that.  They let their hair down.    I can't help but wonder how much it affects Frid's desire to return to the fests. He has said that he now believes that most of the DS fandom base is just about making fun of the show and the actors screwing up.  He has said that publicly too.  I don't see the making fun of him constantly as being bothersome to him personally but it certainly would not entice him to want to leave the comforts of his home in Canada for a weekend spent discussing line flubs from forty years ago.  It's just old and certainly not worth hearing about in person.  Frid has seen enough of it when he has visited this board and other DS boards to wanna spend a weekend doing it all over again, IMO.

Do you really think this would happen at this point in the game?  Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it--- I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction.  But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads.  I'm basing that on having gone to a couple of Mr. Frid's shows in the past, where people asked questions about DS of course, but it didn't get too silly, he seemed OK answering them to the best of his recollection, and the audience accepted that. Granted these were much smaller groups and there's always a few loose screws in big crowds, but do you really think that fans who could not attend his Readers' Theater shows or his stage appearances, but have longed to see him in person for SO many years would insult him in that manner?  It's up to him naturally, whatever he decides to do and if he feels well enough to rise to the challenge, and we must accept that, but is this issue really a serious concern?

Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it--- I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction.  But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads.

Probably, but from reading his website and from reading items about him I am under the impression that not having a strong film or TV follow-up career to DS hurt him terribly and to be typecast (as I'm sure he was) must have been awful for such a serious career actor. Looks like he ralied forth and eventually got himself a (hopefully) lucrative and successful stage act and theater work that sounded wonderful. It's possible that in addition to being embarassed and to constantly making excuses for his "memory lapses" to his DS fans, the fests might have also brought up hurtful feelings of post-DS professionaly failure. Maybe he just wanted to distance himself from the whole thing to recover emotionally. Certainly, there is a slight testy quality re the Dark Shadows discussion and comments on his website. He obviously knows it brought him fame of sorts and has lots of text on Dark Shadows but one is under the impression that he'd like to lead the audience from DS to other areas, like his Shakespeare readings.
I totally respect his decision not to attend fests. He isn't obligated to attend and honestly, fans do not own this poor guy. He worked his butt off for years on Dark Shadows, he earned his salary, attended promotionally tours when needed. He did his time in a respectable manner. 

Do you really think this would happen at this point in the game?  Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it---

Frid attended fests, fan conventions (that were not official fests) and other fan events from the early 1980s to 1993.  In some instances he attended 3 and 4 a year and did the Q&As and the rest of it as well as a reading of his own chosing.  He was more than comfortable with it.  In fact, he was on the planning committee of some fan cons back in New York.  He wanted fans to have a good time.

I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction.

Actually, Karlen would be the last person to tease Frid about lines, etc.  He has repeatedly said in interviews on camera and at the fests that Frid had the most on him in DS, on most days, had more lines and more to do overall.  He and Frid were very good friends during the run of DS (helped each other move from their respective apartments, had dinner together) and when they got together at the fest they liked to play.  Frid does have quite the sense of humor so he and Karlen can be quite the pair at the fests.

But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads.

The DS questions don't bother Frid - he simply doesn't remember enough about the plots or many of the lesser known characters that well to discuss them or given an opinion.  He has not viewed the show that much or consistently enough since to have any better knowledge.  That fact has nothing to do with not liking to watch DS as much as Frid doesn't watch much TV let alone videotapes of a serial.  He doesn't watch many videos of things he does love to see all that much either.  That's not a way he chooses to spend much of his time.

I'm basing that on having gone to a couple of Mr. Frid's shows in the past, where people asked questions about DS of course, but it didn't get too silly, he seemed OK answering them to the best of his recollection, and the audience accepted that.

You bring up a good point. Somehow it has gotten into some heads that Frid doesn't like discussing DS or distances himself from it.  Yet, on his website for the entire time it has been up (1998) DS has been mentioned and illustrated.  Frid's thinking is why put up a website all about something everyone who visits it already knows about hence his putting up things DS fans probably are not familiar with about him.  When Frid did a Christmas show at Lockwood Mathews (where scenes from HODS was filmed) he had a special tape made showing scenes from that movie that took place outside and inside Lockwood Mathews so that fans attending this reading could see them during intermission.  They were sitting in the rotunda area listening to Frid and that's where Barny-boo got the spear in the film.  He thought the whole thing was a cool coincidence.

Granted these were much smaller groups and there's always a few loose screws in big crowds, but do you really think that fans who could not attend his Readers' Theater shows or his stage appearances, but have longed to see him in person for SO many years would insult him in that manner?

Well, it's happened - repeatedly but you need to understand that making fun of lines or whatever to Frid doesn't "insult" him as much as clue him in on what those fans wish to focus on themselves.  Frid wrote a foreward to the INTRODUCTION OF BARNABAS book the festival put out some years ago and talked about seeing fans sitting in rooms laughing at scenes.  He said he was too "hard hearted" to let that bother him.  He attended fests knowing that went on and knowing that people loved to talk about the bloopers.  He participated in those discussions.

It's up to him naturally, whatever he decides to do and if he feels well enough to rise to the challenge, and we must accept that, but is this issue really a serious concern?

Fans have stopped coming to fests for periods of time because they were burned out or tired of the same old thing over and over again.  At any Q&A event at the fests, at the DS reunion and other functions you hear more about what Frid did wrong than right.  Obviously, he didn't do anything so wrong since the show continues today with the marketers using his face on everything.  It's what most people would want to see.   Frid can log on his site or the many other DS sites and see most of the discussion about him having to do with silly stuff mostly teleprompters and forgetting lines.  That doesn't exactly make one think his presence at a fest would be anything more than about this discussion.  It's old.  I think it's more of an "oh okay that's what they are into . . . still " than some insult.  Frid thinks DS was a serious show and not one to be made fun of.  The blooper culture is more of what fans are about now.  There's nothing wrong with that if that is what entertains the fans who watch DS.  The fans make the show whatever it is.  But don't expect people who feel very differently to buy into that or want to spend time in that environment.  It's not about insult but more about not wanting to participate in something that is boring.

Of course too, you have the problem of fans who have attended Frid's one man shows, copied down his license plate and then through motor vehicles gotten his home address (which is unlisted for a reason) and started sending video tapes of the festivals and other things.  That kind of behavior is upsetting and annoying.  For a man who is very private, he has to wonder too if this kind of behavior won't become worse if he makes another public appearance.

Geez, I certainly prattled on about this longer than I intended to - sorry! LOL!!

Nancy

Probably, but from reading his website and from reading items about him I am under the impression that not having a strong film or TV follow-up career to DS hurt him terribly and to be typecast (as I'm sure he was) must have been awful for such a serious career actor.

Not really because JF rarely ever pursued TV or film work even before DS.  He loved the stage.  As Frid has said many times including at the more recent charity shows, he was an actor who did what he wanted when he wanted and would have had more of a career for himself but he was too "lazy."  If he couldn't do what he wanted, he would rather than not work and that's precisely what happened after DS ended.  He wanted to do other things and could have if he had played the game but he didn't want to.   He was offered many film and TV roles of substance in the early 1980s through today and he turns them all down.  During the time of his one man show he turned down the work because he only wanted to do his one man show.  Later he turned it down because he was retired.

Looks like he ralied forth and eventually got himself a (hopefully) lucrative and successful stage act and theater work that sounded wonderful. It's possible that in addition to being embarassed and to constantly making excuses for his "memory lapses" to his DS fans, the fests might have also brought up hurtful feelings of post-DS professionaly failure. Maybe he just wanted to distance himself from the whole thing to recover emotionally.

In some interviews JF gave after DS was over, he said he wanted to get his life back and his privacy.  It really got old fast to have fans calling his friends and family in Canada about him.  The fan mags were not above making up interviews with his family such as the two page spread about the supposed interview with Mrs. Frid (JF's mother) that never happened.  He talked about that in 1986 at the Dallas Festival Q&A. His mother was sitting in the beauty parlor getting her hair done and someone plopped into her lap this magazine article featuring her called "MY Son the vampire."  Frid said she was pretty horrified especially as she never even gave the interview  .

Certainly, there is a slight testy quality re the Dark Shadows discussion and comments on his website. He obviously knows it brought him fame of sorts and has lots of text on Dark Shadows but one is under the impression that he'd like to lead the audience from DS to other areas, like his Shakespeare readings.

I agree Frid gets testy and many times it's because people who supposedly adore him and Barnabas can't spell either name right .  Also, words can sounder harsher in print than in person.  JF is a candid person and unlike some of the other actors who smile in your face and then make fun of you behind your back, if he has a problem with something said to him, he responds to it honestly.  It's not always great, 

It helps to remember too in understanding the Fridster that this is a man who, if he were a father, would not allow his kids to watch TV.  He thinks people spend way too much watching it and not pursuing other things.

Nancy

The blooper culture is more of what fans are about now.

Really?  That's kind of sad.  While there are fans who incorrectly think of DS as an experiment in camp or who get off on the bloopers, is this really what the majority of fans are into?  From reading online discussions here, I never found the focus to be on the bloopers in particular (although that stuff certainly does come up in discussions).  I also find that most fans have great respect for Jonathan Frid's acting skills.  Unfortunately, the few who do make the rude remarks, or who focus on mistakes, are the loudest it seems.  Alas, that seems to be the way with most things in life.   

Nancy---  nicely done "prattling".     From everything you've said JF sounds completely fair and reasonable.    I once looked over that guestbook of his, where he very briefly and reasonably pointed out that fans could at least take the slight time and trouble to make sure they spelled his name and his character's name correctly.     The fan he was referring to got outraged, and basically called him a snob and know-it-all.     You're walking into his Internet house, or place of business, get the man's name right.    I'm completely behind Mr. Frid on this one.     That includes the issue of people spending too much time watching TV.

PD and Nancy--  I haven't encountered them anyplace, but I just know those "fans" who think DS was "camp" (there are obnoxious smartasses* who assume everything good and old was "camp" and meant for laughs... meant for them to make fun of...) are really out there, somewhere.   Why?   Because they're everywhere.   Throughout our society there are superior-minded numbskulls who can't or won't think outside the cultural parameters they're used to, who mock things because they're out of fashion and so seem "strange" to them.    I thought they made fun from a distance, and didn't venture into DS fandom.     I only respect a mocking impulse if it's not just a mindless impulse, not a knee-jerk sort of thing, and has had some thought (and a desire for fairness) put into it.     Instead they're usually following an automatic urge to build oneself up by tearing something or someone else down.

Then they throw us a bone, by claiming DS, or whatever the object of the mocking is, is meant to be laughed at, they "get" it, and they really "like" DS.      That don't cut no ice with me.      If I find those guys here, I'm outing them as Trojan Horse fans, or something.

* I don't consider myself the obnoxious kind, though I may be wrong of course.

I have no doubt that at least 50% (but probably more than that) of the reason the stars want to continue them is to sell their wares.  I have no problem w/this however, they have every right to make a living any way they can same as the rest of us, and if the fans are BUYING...!

I totally agree with you.

Nancy

While there are fans who incorrectly think of DS as an experiment in camp or who get off on the bloopers, is this really what the majority of fans are into?

I don't honestly think it's what the majority of DS fans are into - but there are definitely people who make the bloopers their main focus. I've followed several different DS online boards and I've subscribed to a few different fanzines and it's been impossible not to notice that there are certain people who only post/write in whenever a blooper comes up. In fact, they seem to find bloopers that I swear the majority of us would barely take notice of - and that would certainly seem to be because they spend little to none of their DS viewing time paying attention to the storylines or the actors' performances and instead focus almost entirely if not exclusively on everything that's going on in the background and in the periphery of scenes.    Personally, I've never understood the utter fascination the bloopers hold for some people, particularly when it's seemingly to the exclusion of any other aspects of DS - but I suppose it takes all kinds...

All that being said, though, I place at least part of the blame for the fascination with bloopers squarely on the media because all too often they've played up the bloopers and the supposed "camp" nature of DS. However, it's been nice to see that of late there seems to be a shift in at least certain parts of the media away from that to a focus that's more on what I think most of us feel really makes DS so special, namely the storylines and the actors' performances. There's no denying the fact that the aspects of DS that the media focuses on can certainly affect some people's perceptions of the show. So, if the media continues to focus more on the DS storylines/performances, that can only help to change the general perceptions of the show.

Unfortunately, the few who do make the rude remarks, or who focus on mistakes, are the loudest it seems.  Alas, that seems to be the way with most things in life.

So true. I mean, just look at the whole call-in talk show culture - how many people actually call in to praise something/someone? Not very many. The vast majority of the people who take part in those shows seemingly do so merely to make fun of something/someone or to rip it/them apart. Yet another cultural phenomenon that I don't quite get...

You know, it wasn't until I my "later" years that I even comprehended the fact of bloopers in DS. As a kid, when unexpected things happened in the show, my mind's eye more or less blocked them out. I know I never felt a moment's amusement when gravestones wobbled or lines drifted into the incomprehensible. If you've ever been in an old graveyard and bumped a gravestone, guess what. It wobbles. Of course, it rarely sets a whole row of graves, as well as the nearby trees moving. <G> And in real speech, people's points sometimes wander into weird territory. All those aspects of the show were just things to be taken in stride. In my youth, my focus was solely on the story and the people, and that's what's stuck with me over the years. Certainly, it's almost impossible -not- to find humor in the gaffes, but making those the main focus is, to me, an exercise in foolishness -- a mindset uncomfortably close to deriving of pleasure from others' misfortunes. I can do without it.

It gives me the Willies.

--Mark