In Defense of Roger Davis -

Felling sorry may be unnecessary and irrelevant.    It's certainly not a positive thing to feel sorry for someone...

That depends on who you're feeling sorry for. To feel sorry for Himmler is not only unnecessary, irrelevent, and not postive, it's disgraceful. But to empathize/feel sorry for a fellow who has made a fool of himself a few too many times is, I think, a product of humility and love.

I've embarrassed myself on more than one occasion, and when I realized later what I had done,well...it was embarrassing!
I'm not saying it's ok to be a nimrod all the time, but when I consider a man who doesn't know how to behave in front of people without (or with!) a script in front of him, I feel a bit sorry for him. I think I'd have to be a bit cold to not.

It's a great big frustrating mixed bag, life, and erring on the side of withholding judgment is a pretty good fallback position.

Exactly -

That depends on who you're feeling sorry for. To feel sorry for Himmler is not only unnecessary, irrelevent, and not postive, it's disgraceful. But to empathize/feel sorry for a fellow who has made a fool of himself a few too many times is, I think, a product of humility and love.

I've been misunderstood here... I expected it to be thought I was being too easy on Mr. Davis, not the reverse.  I didn't consider being felt sorry for to be a pleasant or respectful experience.   I didn't equate it with sympathy.

I'm not implying that you're being too hard on Mr. Davis - I'm simply defending my earlier statements about "feeling sorry for" RD.

If someone feels sorry for you because you're in a bad spot, of course it's not a pleasant experience - and to feel sorry for someone's situation is not disrespectful, it's quite the opposite - I felt sorry for my friend when he lost his job because I had respect for him as a person and could identify with the struggle he was in the midst of.

Whether or not the phrase "feel sorry for" means the same thing as "feel sympathy for" is debatable, but that is what I meant. I hope this doesn't devolve into semantics -

Retzev and Trask,

What a great turn for this thread to take.  It began with folks more-or-less beating-up on RD.  I knew nothing of the situation, so I just read-on.

Then I began to read the recent posts from Trask and Retzev.  I appreciate the tone that both of you have used in this conversation.  Your undertanding and empathetic attitude toward human nature is refreshing.  You both seem to understand that everyone makes mistakes, especially when we aren't being ourselves, when we're overly self-conscience, or when we've been drinking.

Haven't we all been in a situation where we've said the wrong thing?  Done the wrong thing?  Reacted the wrong way?  Or otherwise offended a few people?   I'm glad to know that you gave Roger Davis some breathing-room. 

The man may be a total jerk, but "there but for the grace of God . . .", as you said Trask.     It's possible that every negative thing said about RD is absolutely true.  But, as someone mentioned -- a performer's life is unusual.  And sometimes a bit of self-absortion is necessary to make it through all the rejection. 

Wow, this has got to be the most civil message board I have ever visited.  I appreciate that.

Thanks, Fletcher!

It's weird but I've found that reading all this stuff over the last few years has colored my perception and enjoyment of the show.  I never really paid much attention to Roger Davis one way or the other.  He seemed like an okay actor - certainly not incompetent or anything.  Then when I started reading all the bashing I wondered what it was about -- it seems like such a popular and accepted topic.  After reading a lot of comments about his behavior at Fests, negative experiences of fans, and even things said about him by actresses on the show, I started to notice him annoying me in certain scenes.  Then here and there he started grossing me out a bit.  LOL   
I've come to the conclusion that I don't really want to know much about the actors in some ways - particularly if it's negative info coming from a fellow actor.  It ruins the mystique and fantasy of DS for me.  Has anyone else noticed this happening to them? 

I also realized the Fests have detracted from the show in a sense.  There's a person who's characters never bothered me in the least.  But now, having watched this person at Fests - on stage and off, seen personal appearances on TV, etc., I've developed a dislike - strong enough that if I'm not in a good mood, I can't stand watching them on the show.  It's almost like nails on a chalkboard!  I hate that this has happened.  I try not to allow it to seep in and hope that in time I can get rid of the negative reaction.  I hate anything ruining DS for me - it's depressing.

It ruins the mystique and fantasy of DS for me.  Has anyone else noticed this happening to them? 

I understand that feeling. I think it can happen not only with DS, but with other things too. I know that sometimes I would rather not hear about behind the scenes problems or what not, because I like the fantasy of what I'm watching. I become a fan of the story/characters first and foremost and I get drawn into what I'm watching. I don't like it when something negatively affects my enjoyment of that -be it an actor or whatever.

I don't think I could count the number of times that I've been disappointed to find that an artist whose work I admire is an insecure and/or arrogant jerk - either through an interview or a personal encounter

They say that most actors/actress' are shy, insecure ppl, the emphasis being on the shy part, and that that's why a lot of them go into acting to begin with, as a way to break out of their shells.  I remember reading an interview of Frid's mother called My Son The Vampire and she claimed in that interview that he was a shy person...

It's entirely possible that Davis *thinks* he's being funny and truly means no harm of course.  But you'd think seeing Johnny Karlen turn his back on him onstage, and hearing Dennis Patrick's derisive comments would enlighten the guy, sheesh!  

Peter Bradford and Charles Delaware Tate are my two favorite character roles for Roger Davis.  I met him at the fest several years ago on the elevator.  I was too shocked to utter a word on the way up but he nodded at me when he saw the DS Festival Program and smiled.  It was special meeting a star and only standing a few feet away from that person.  I think he was one of the best looking men on DS and as other's have said, has a great voice.  It's cool that he was friends with Don Briscoe and that they went to Columbia Univer(?) in New York together.  I don't think we need to rip Roger another one as I've heard quite a few of the other DS actors refer to Frid's problems remembering his lines in a not too flattering way.  RD did an excellent reading on the Return to Collinwood CD. Oh, I almost forgot, at another fest, I saw him leaving the hotel with a friend and he smiled and nodded at me.

Even though I'm sure the vast majority of the people reading this topic can easily tell the difference when people are merely speculating and they're sharing facts, the two do often have a strange way of becoming confused by some people on the Internet and speculation has a way of becoming accepted by some as fact. So, simply as a clarification, it probably should be stated explicitly that:

• speculation that RD's public or private behavior may have been colored by the possibility that he had been drinking (or even ingesting anything stronger) is simply that: speculation. It shouldn't ever be confused with actual published and/or first hand accounts - whether they be pro or con
• and the possibility of having been drinking shouldn't be seen in any way as an excuse to condone any individual's bad behavior.

Speculation certainly has its place - particularly whenever we're what-ifing about some sort of DS storyline point or storyline we might have liked to have seen done on the show. But speculation, no matter how well intended, can be and often is a very dangerous thing when it comes to discussing a real person's life.

Fletcher.... thanks.   That was a great post.

Connie.... it's exactly the same with me, only possibly more so.     I resist it as best I can, but what I saw in a character or show will get muted or go away completely because of those negative opinions from others.   It's not because I believe what they're saying.   It's subconscious pressure.    My feelings and conscious opinions get split off from each other.     I end up not being able to believe in what I'm seeing with my own eyes.     A show will be "bad" even though I know better.

I don't understand supremely confident people, who go around proclaiming their opinions, and who just tell people they don't agree with that they just don't know what the f they're talking about.    I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being that self-contained and invulnerable.     I don't want to be like that.     But I'd kill to have half that confidence and self-belief, enough to be my real self for the first time.

There's a mob mentality among most people, on most subjects, that people just automatically go with, without stopping to think.     (I hope this won't offend people here.    I think we need to start to see it, to start fighting it.   Every human being is vulnerable to this.)     It's part of the comformist urge that leads people to try so hard to "fit in"--- we mold beliefs to fit what the majority seems to think, subconsciously, sometimes in a small way, sometimes totally.    Then we tell kids to "be themselves", confusing the hell out of them, but that's another subject for another time.

Anyway, it really seems to be possible for an idea to be repeated so often and so loudly by so many people, that it becomes "true", that is, it becomes next to impossible to see it as not being true.     I think half the ideas that go around in this society are like that.     Repetiti on TV equals truth.   If you're immersed in fandom, that's almost as overwhelming as TV.    This or that actor is crap... it's treated as obvious and self-evident, and eventually you can't stand the strain anymore, of internally fighting the idea (because you feel as if your perceptions must be crazy if you do)... and if the subject is just one actor you don't think much about anyway, you're not going to be trying too hard. 

I lost my sister, the person I felt closest to in the world, the only person who seemed remotely in synch with me, partly because I got to like Elton John and Bernie Taupin, almost as much as the Beatles.     This would be trivial for any other two people, I know.     It only matters because of the consequences, plus how young I was then.     Don't tell me it's silly... I know it is, and that's my point.

We'd shared musical tastes untril then.     I got contempt from her over this, suddenly, unexpectedly, and things gradually fell apart from that point on.      that was the beginning of the snowball.  Ayway, I've had to struggle to validate internally my own beliefs, likes, and perceptions because of that and other pressures from an early age, to feel just about everything I think and feel and believe and experience is "wrong"-- not morally but factually.

So, yes, Connie, it happens.    I hope your version is milder than mine. 

Buzz---

I've decided that some insecurities I have are those performers' anxieties you hear them talking about sometimes, that make them go on stage and be comedians, only I'm not in a situation that allows me to do anything like that, so it's bottled up and festers.    I  hit upon that idea to feel better about things actually.     We're all flawed, as Fletcher talked about above.

Damn, Trask! Your eloquence amazes me -

Connie.... it's exactly the same with me, only possibly more so.     I resist it as best I can, but what I saw in a character or show will get muted or go away completely because of those negative opinions from others.   It's not because I believe what they're saying.   It's subconscious pressure.    My feelings and conscious opinions get split off from each other.     I end up not being able to believe in what I'm seeing with my own eyes.     A show will be "bad" even though I know better...

There's a mob mentality among most people, on most subjects, that people just automatically go with, without stopping to think.     (I hope this won't offend people here.    I think we need to start to see it, to start fighting it.   Every human being is vulnerable to this.)     It's part of the comformist urge that leads people to try so hard to "fit in"--- we mold beliefs to fit what the majority seems to think, subconsciously, sometimes in a small way, sometimes totally.    Then we tell kids to "be themselves", confusing the hell out of them, but that's another subject for another time...

Yes. I'm so thankful that I found this forum, but it's very much a double-edged sword. I love reading the thoughts of others who love the show as much as I do, and I love communicating my own thoughts about DS to a group of people who might be interested in hearing what I have to say, but it's a challenge to keep the majority opinion on certain subjects from influencing my own perception. I'm still on my maiden DS voyage and I want to enjoy it for what it is and what it was, and nothing more.

As another example, I'm a fan of more than a few so-called cult-films, and the problems are similar. I'm always excited when an obscure favorite receives the lavish "Special Editon" treatment on DVD, and I always pick'em up, but after watching the cast interviews, and the making-of featurettes, and the blooper-reels...ad nauseum...I usually come away feeling as though the magic has been lost in the analysis, like a butterfly pinned to cork-board.

I don't understand supremely confident people, who go around proclaiming their opinion, and who just tell people they don't agree with that they just don't know what the f they're talking about. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being that self-contained and invulnerable. I don't want to be like that. But I'd kill to have that confidence and self-belief, enough to be my real self for the first time...

I've decided that some insecurities I have are those performers' anxieties you hear them talking about sometimes, that make them go on stage and be comedians, only I'm not in a situation that allows me to do anything like that, so it's bottled up and festers. I  hit upon that idea to feel better about things actually.     We're all flawed, as Fletcher talked about above.   

So true. I so often find myself annoyed by the overly self-assured "supremely confident" types, but when I stop to consider it, I have to ask myself if my annoyance isn't partly envy...

I can so easily relate to the typical performer's anxieties - self-conciousness, timidity etc., that I try my best to ignore any foolishness they might engage in when their "real selves" are before an audience. These folks are in the business of pretending to be someone they're not(!) - the least I can do, for my benefit and theirs, is to ignore who they are and believe, as best I can, the parts they performed.

Earlier in this thread, someone said that Roger Davis wouldn't be attending any more DS festivals.  This was the first I had heard of that.  Did something happen at one of the festivals that led to his making this decision?  Has he publically stated that he would not be attending in the future, and if so, why?

I haven't seen the reunion tape that was talked about where he is supposed to have criticized or mocked Frid.  Someone else later made the point that RD is not the first DS actor/actress to have made comments about Frid's difficulty with memorizing lines.  Were Davis' comments more belittling than what other DS actors have said on this subject, or how were RD's comments different from what others have said many times?

 

Earlier in this thread, someone said that Roger Davis wouldn't be attending any more DS festivals.  This was the first I had heard of that.  Did something happen at one of the festivals that led to his making this decision?  Has he publically stated that he would not be attending in the future, and if so, why?

Hi,

No, he has not publicly stated that he won't be attending any more Fests, which is the purpose of the reminder in Reply #13.  Sorry!

RD was certainly never a standout cast member for me, but he also never sent me into a foaming frenzy of irritation either.   I thought he was average acting-wise, and was decent at playing a hothead.  Some of his DS roles were better than others.  I never attended a Fest and didn't really interact much in the fandom so I didn't realize there was such revulsion for him until internet fandom arose (because you never read about this stuff in the 'zines).  Likewise, I never knew there were storylines (Leviathan, Adam) that whole pockets of fans detested.  That was actually kind of surprising.  I merely assumed fandom dug all of DS and its many characters.  The storyline detractors in fandom certainly haven't colored my views.  The personal stuff about the actors though could more easily alter my opinions.   For example, I might still think an actor did a good job in the show, but knowing they are a jerk in real life could be a turnoff in viewing their performance.

  RD is someone  I've heard mixed things about.  It's unfortunate that he has acted like an a-hole to people, but by the same token I've also heard about cool things he's done (like taking a Board member and DS fan over to see his house this past Summer).   Regardless of his faults, the guy was still part of DS and always will be, so he should still be invited to participate in the Fests IMO.  On a related note, I'm not sure why fans have taken issue with him plugging his business ventures at Fests.  Don't many of the DS actors plug their various projects at the Fests?  Like I said, I've never gone to one, so I have no idea what the time share thing was all about.