Author Topic: Why We Hate Gerard  (Read 2729 times)

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Offline Patti Feinberg

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Why We Hate Gerard
« on: July 24, 2019, 06:38:37 PM »
So, I remember the 'head' part, but, I guess I never watched how [spoiler] Gerard puts on J. Macaabe's mask & becomes J. Macaabe.[/spoiler]

Is this why in 1970/RT the ghost of G is so nasty?

I realize they were going for the same theme as ((Quentin)), but, no way Jose.

Am I correct?

Patti

What am I doing wrong...I don't see anythig correct with trying to put it in as 'spoiler'...?
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Offline Midnite

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 03:55:12 AM »
Your code is fine, Patti, but for the last couple of years or so the spoiler feature hasn't been working.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2019, 11:23:08 AM »
I'm hoping that now that I've been able to correct the Video Mod that I installed the other day, maybe I'll be able to fix the Spoiler Mod. I just haven't had the chance to try yet...

Offline Patti Feinberg

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Why DO We Hate Gerard?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 01:42:39 AM »
I'm assuming TPTB were trying to re-do the ((Quentin)) storyline, i.e., in current time, he was menacing and scary.

So, the 1995 Gerard (and 1970) Gerard, were both possessed by Judah Zachary?

And, why was Daphne always meddling with the 'kids'?

(This is the first time I've ever seen the 1840 time story.)

Patti
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Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 02:15:36 PM »
All of the stuff with Gerard was very confusing to me as well during my last rewatch of the show. It is extremely obvious that the writers were trying to capitalize on Quentin's popularity and the storyline of 1897 (at least the lead up to it anyway). But a lot of the stuff surrounding the kids wasn't ever fully explained--why were they victimized and, like Patti said, why was Daphne all about protecting them when she was a ghost only to act differently during the flashback? Did Ghost Daphne have the power of 20/20 hindsight and was able to act accordingly?

The highlight for me of this whole storyline was the Judah Zachary/Miranda DuVal history because that was actually interesting and truly built on the story of certain characters and the Collins family overall.
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Offline Gothick

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 04:07:09 PM »
The 1840 storyline played out somewhat similarly to the 1897 one in terms of foreshadowing in "the present" that did not play out once everyone was back in 19th century times. In 1897, the discontinuity wasn't quite so blatant, in part because they spent eight months (or was it nine) moving through what they wound up with. Those in charge of the show simply presumed that the viewers at home wouldn't recall what had been shown during the lead-up in Dec. 1968-March 1969. In all fairness, they did try to explain some of the disparities, but at one point either Barnabas or Julia told one bewildered character "We can't answer ALL the questions now." And as usual when they told Professor Stokes or Maggie that they would "explain later"... they never did.

With 1840 it was a more compacted timeline that was complicated by some real life developments. David Henesy left the show, so the Tad character went off to boarding school or a relative's home (I can't recall which). Jonathan Frid ALMOST left. Grayson had to leave because of an in-law's death and I think she had minor plastic surgery at one point. But she did come back.

Fans were following all of it really closely and it was glaringly obvious to those of us watching that the various "clues" about the Java Queen, Rose Cottage, Gerard and Daphne's shipboard romance, etc. formed a trail that led to precisely nothing once everyone had arrived in 1840.

G.

Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 06:14:10 PM »
As usual Gothick, you've provided some behind the scenes information that I never knew that helps explain this storyline and its inaccuracy. I never realized that Henesy left the show completely, though I suppose thinking back on it, it is very obvious because Tad pretty much disappears like you said. Frid and Hall's absences were also very felt during this storyline, especially because they were so involved in the lead up and then with Julia becoming possessed by Judah being such a big plot point during the actual storyline.

This is definitely one of those storylines that can hurt to watch it. So much squandered potential, and as has been discussed many times previously, DC was starting to become disinterested in the show, and it showed.
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Offline Philippe Cordier

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 07:12:32 PM »
The 1840 storyline has been my favorite, but so many years have passed since I last watched it, the details of how it all fits together escape me. Recently, I've had the opportunity, the first in many years, to re-watch some DS. I didn't know where to start, so I randomly pulled out a DVD case from my DS storage bin and saw that it was the brief 1995 storyline - one that I remember as the most bleak of the entire series. With Collinwood in ruins, many of the Collins family dead, and the survivors emotionally and mentally scarred for life, I think that's a fair assessment. And then even those survivors die for the most part, except for Quentin. It's such a brief sequence but sets up the mystery that is to follow with the Summer of 1970. A few of the questions that came to mind as I was watching: in an early episode when Barnabas and Julia find themselves in 1995, someone relates to them that a young couple went to the ruined Collinwood on a dare and something terrible happened to them. I think the girl's name was Jean. A framed photo of Jean is shown, and I thought it looked like a young Grayson Hall. Does anyone remember seeing that photo, and if it was Grayson? Also, not so much a question, but a comment, things happen so quickly and with so little reflection - for example, Mrs. Johnson is frightened to death by Gerard - but no one mentions this or anything about her in any of the following scenes. Some depth is lacking; the 1995 sequence seems all about plot points. Even so, there are touching moments showing Carolyn in more depth, such as when she is looking at old photographs and doesn't recognize herself. Barnabas gently points out that the photo is of her, but a few moments later she has already forgotten. This is poignant to watch, and for those of us who have watched a loved one slowly lose their memory, it is also emotionally very real.

And as I said, 1995 does set up the mystery that is to follow. I'm now at the point in 1970 when the night of the sun and the moon occurs, the first clue Carolyn struggles to right down as she searches her memory for what led to the disaster that overtook Collinwood in 1970. Another event she writes down is the "unfinished horoscope." "the night I sang my song," and then there is "Rose Cottage." I found these very intriguing and satisfying mysteries in previous viewings, and I find myself puzzling now how some of them work out. For example, Elizabeth has just received her horoscope for the remainder of the year, but how will this become "unfinished" I wonder? David and Hallie are beginning to be haunted by Tad and Carrie, though they (and we) don't understand it at this point, and in going through some old letters and notes of the children, mention is made of Rose Cottage. The ghost of Daphne is frightening them, but if I remember correctly, Daphne was governess and protector of Tad and Carrie, who sought to shield them from Gerard. But their haunting of David and Hallie is unsettling because, if I remember correctly, they want to possess them in order to live in the physical world ... which seems like a callous and even evil thing to do. I don't know whether that issue is addressed or resolved. I thought Rose Cottage was the most fascinating aspect of the mystery.
"Collinwood is not a healthy place to be." -- Collinsport sheriff, 1995

Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 07:53:06 PM »
Philippe, you bring up some of my favorite parts of the lead up to the actual 1840 flashback. I thought much of the plot building was very well done, and 1995 is one of my absolutely favorite episode runs of the entire series. It really was an out-of-the-box adventure, even for DS, and something that they had never done before: jumping into the future instead of the past.

I think the writers missed an opportunity here. If they concluded 1840 and the show was going to continue (of course we know that Frid didn't want to play Barnabas anymore and there were other considerations as well), it would have been a great storyline to have Barnabas and Julia end up back in the future, but a changed future from what they experienced before because they changed the past and what happened to Tad and Carrie. Think of the opportunity for the actors to play future family members, and the show could have existed in that timeline for a story arc. I'm sure there is fanfic somewhere that takes a whack at this.
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Offline Gothick

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 08:03:22 PM »
At some point in the early Fall of 1970 (I think), Dan made Lela Swift the producer of the show. So, she was producing it and directing it. In terms of the production context of DS, this meant that she also became the de facto head writer in terms of having the ability to dictate where storylines would go or how they would play out.

I think Kathy Resch and Marcy Robin wrote in an essay in an early PomPress book that the 1840 storyline was plotted during a two day "retreat" where Sam and Gordon and whoever else was writing the show were holed up trying to come up with something that could be produced with the limitations of the cramped studio space and small budget. The original plan had been for KLS to play Samantha but that was jettisoned because she decided to leave the show--she, like many other regulars, was working without a contract.

NOTHING about Judah and his resurrection was hinted at in ANY of the foreshadowing--I am not sure at what point they came up with that, but it may have been during this storyboarding session which must have taken place at some point in mid to late September of '70.... roughly 49 years ago now.

G.

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 11:36:31 PM »
I really enjoyed the two weeks in 1995. Some genuinely creepy moments and some of Nancy Barrett's best work. What follows is extremely frustrating.
The summer of 1970 leads us to expect certain things to play out once we finally get to 1840. But most of them appear to be red herrings. I was very spooked when Gerard turned Carolyn into Leticia and using her as a helper. But when we reach 1840 proper, Leticia is shown to have had a past camaraderie with Gerard that may not have been 100% on the up and up. As the story progresses, Leticia becomes more and more suspicious of Gerard and allies herself with the Collins family. It would have worked better if 1970's Gerard had Carolyn possessed by Edith or Samantha.
At the Anaheim festival, Jeane Avery, David Henesy's mom, said that David's absence from the show was due to his decision to spend some time with his father. She added that she asked them not to write David out of the show completely in case he changed his mind. Henesy does appear in maybe three 1840 episodes. This may have impacted on long term story. It would have been difficult to write Tad in as a key character if they weren't sure that the actor  would be available. It would have been a challenge to write a story about a character that didn't require his presence on screen without recasting.
Daphne is a hard character to figure. She is supposed to be the protector of the children but seems to lead them into more and more danger in 1970. And, for a servant in 1840, she seems to have an abundance of free time.
Gerard is definitely a Quentin retread. But the character is never well developed. The Gerard that we meet before the possession is, as Julia pointed out, an opportunist. He's a con man, working Flora, Daniel, Carrie, Edith, Samantha and probably others for his own purposes. We never see any attempt that he's trying to fight off the possession. If anything, Judah gives him a chance to really manipulate people. It's next to impossible to root for that kind of character.
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Offline Patti Feinberg

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2019, 01:36:12 AM »
Quote
I didn't know where to start

Phillippe, that's exactly what happened with me.

I own a couple of the 'Best of' and 'Fan Favs'. One was 1995, so, I got out my series, and that's why I went with 1840; I had never seen it before.

About Gerard being an opportunistic, this is probably true, but, his friendship for Quentin is real.

Another thing about 1840 is that JZ will destroy ALL descendants of all the judges, um, nope.
We don't even know all the judges, but, what about Barnabas, Tad and Flora (I'm only mentioning the Collins' by blood.)

So cool that when Stokes, Julia & Barn ascend the stairs, NO time has passed.

And, oh goody, now onto ANOTHER P/T.... (the two things that shine are Angalexis and Hoffman/Julia).

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Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2019, 01:46:55 PM »
Gerard is definitely a Quentin retread. But the character is never well developed. The Gerard that we meet before the possession is, as Julia pointed out, an opportunist. He's a con man, working Flora, Daniel, Carrie, Edith, Samantha and probably others for his own purposes. We never see any attempt that he's trying to fight off the possession. If anything, Judah gives him a chance to really manipulate people. It's next to impossible to root for that kind of character.


I think this would have been brilliant if played correctly. I always liked that Gerard was not sympathetic. He was a true villain, unlike one DS had really seen before. Sure, Angelique was evil and manipulative, but she always came from a place of "loving" Barnabas to explain her actions. Unless I'm forgetting someone, Gerard is really the only main character (maybe beside PT Bruno) that is truly an opportunist and is looking to get something for nothing. His friendship with Quentin might be real, but I would even call that into question because we can't truly believe anything Gerard says or does.

It would have been interesting to weave Gerard's storyline more around his attempts to weasel his way into the Collins family and take over, or at least cash in, only to be thwarted or knocked down several times until Judah Zachary took over. This is sort of what happened, but I think it could've been leaned on more heavily as a plot device. Especially if some of the more erroneous storyline/plot point mix-ups were taken out.
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Offline Gothick

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2019, 01:56:37 PM »
What about Count Petofi? I'm not sure if "opportunist" is the right word to describe the Count--it does not seem sufficiently grandiose for that magnificent schemer and manipulator.

He did say "I have but one God, and his name is Petofi," and I don't think he was joking.

It's been over a decade since I last watched 1840. My memory is that when Gerard comes on, he is a charming rogue with some minor psychic powers (healing Flora of her headaches... that was such a trippy scene) who has spun a yarn to the family about his travels with Quentin. He definitely had his own personality, one which I would describe as deceitful and devious but not full-on malevolent. Wasn't Gerard initially a friend of Letitia's? I remember a couple of scenes between them that showed more of himself than he wanted to reveal to the family.

I thought James Storm did a good job, all things considered, in the role. I know people who live for Storm's unique enunciation of that fateful name... MIRRRRRAAAAANDAAAAHHH!

G.

Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Why We Hate Gerard
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2019, 02:39:36 PM »
True statement about Petofi. He wasn't really of an opportunist, but he definitely was selfish and focused on his end goal.

I last watched 1840 earlier this year, and I have to admit that I don't really remember it all too well despite having just watched it. I think Storm did a good job in the role as well, but I still feel like Gerard was never truly a good person. He may have been friends with Leticia, and he may have tried to charm his way into helping the family, but I still always got the feeling that it was just because he wanted to take Quentin's place. He saw an opportunity to get in, get rich, and make everyone believe that he was a good guy and he tried to take it.
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