Here's Another Ummm....Question

[Connie]

Okay - here's something that's been bugging me:

Oh damn....I suppose this whole question is a spoiler.

[spoiler]When the ghost of Beth is telling Julia about how and why she killed Quentin, she's talking about -- you know -- she shot him and then killed herself.  Well, how could she have killed him when Quentin had the portrait protecting him?  Then I was wondering about what actually happens when Barn is in 1897 and Petofi stops Beth from shooting Quentin. 

I assume Barnabas being in 1897 is supposed to have changed history, but how did HE actually do that??  I don't see how his being there brought Petofi there.  Didn't Petofi show up because he was looking for his hand?  (LOL - oy vey)[/spoiler]

Signed,
Totally confused   

[Midnite]

[spoiler]I assume Barnabas being in 1897 is supposed to have changed history, but how did HE actually do that??  I don't see how his being there brought Petofi there.  Didn't Petofi show up because he was looking for his hand?  (LOL - oy vey)[/spoiler]
Signed,
Totally confused

I feel your pain.

[spoiler]Barnabas sent Magda in search of a cure for Quentin.  That journey resulted in her stealing the hand, which led to Petof's presence in Collinsport.  I'm imagining that Petofi wasn't present in the original timeline.  However, it seems Angelique was because Beth also told Julia that she shot Quentin after he became engaged to Angelique.  Someone had to have saved Jamison from Laura anyway because he continued the family line.

However, we know the engagement came after Angelique cured Jamison, but would Jamison have been possessed in Petofi's absence?  Ouch.  Perhaps Angelique was summoned to the pre-altered 1897 by Evan and Quentin for some other reason than to deal with Barnabas, and other unknown events further led to the marriage plans. [/spoiler]

[PennyDreadful]

 Exactly.

[spoiler]  If Magda hadn't stolen the hand, Petofi most likely wouldn't have come to Collinsport in the original chain of events.  Also, Quentin may have somehow been cured of lycanthropy the first time around.  I say this because, according to an episode in the Leviathan sequence, if a werewolf is killed while in human form it will turn them into the animal forever (ep. 944).  Since this permanent transformation didn't happen to Quentin the first time around, I'm assuming he was either already cured or somehow avoided this fate in another way.[/spoiler]

  This raises another point however...

[spoiler]Can Quentin be killed despite the portrait?  We know it keeps him from aging, but does it prevent him from being killed?  I ask this because during Summer 1970, Gerard buries Quentin alive.  The portrait saves him through its "heartbeat" warning, but would Quentin have died if he had stayed buried?  They certainly played it off that way in the show.  Therefore, if Quentin CAN be killed, and if the portrait was in fact there the first time around, then perhaps he was killed despite the painting, and the image in the portrait turned permantly into the image of a werewolf according to the DS werewolf rule mentioned above.  So, does the portrait completely protect Quentin from physical harm?[/spoiler]

  My brain hurts. 

~Penny Dreadful~

[Connie]

[spoiler]Barnabas sent Magda in search of a cure for Quentin.  That journey resulted in her stealing the hand, which led to Petof's presence in Collinsport.[/spoiler]

I thought of that but then I was thinking
[spoiler]Magda wanted to find a way to cure Quentin when she found out from Beth that there were children - not because of Barnabas.  But I guess you could say Barnabas urged her to try and get the hand.[/spoiler] 

[spoiler]However, we know the engagement came after Angelique cured Jamison, but would Jamison have been possessed in Petofi's absence?  Ouch. [/spoiler]

Oh jeez - I never thought of that.  It gets worse and worse.  That's right.  He WOULDN'T have been possessed to begin with.

I HATE this damned show!!  Wish I'd never started thinking about this stuff!!  LOL

[Midnite]

  This raises another point however...

[spoiler]Can Quentin be killed despite the portrait?  We know it keeps him from aging, but does it prevent him from being killed?  I ask this because during Summer 1970, Gerard buries Quentin alive.  The portrait saves him through its "heartbeat" warning, but would Quentin have died if he had stayed buried?  They certainly played it off that way in the show.  Therefore, if Quentin CAN be killed, and if the portrait was in fact there the first time around, then perhaps he was killed despite the painting, and the image in the portrait turned permantly into the image of a werewolf according to the DS werewolf rule mentioned above.  So, does the portrait completely protect Quentin from physical harm?[/spoiler]

Hmmm.  Or should I say Ummm?

Totally speculating again... [spoiler]In #838, after the foiled shooting, Petofi visited Quentin in his room (where'd he sent him in the first place).  Q thanked him for saving his life and the Count replied, "Your life was never really in danger once I decided to change your fate."  So I'm interpreting this to mean that Petofi stopped Beth from shooting Quentin, but not from killing him.[/spoiler]

[PennyDreadful]

  Right, I don't recall if there's ever been any evidence in the show to support the idea that the painting actually prevents Quentin from being killed.  Then again, maybe it does?  I don't think they were particularly definite about it either way.     

~PennyDreadful~

[PennyDreadful]

 Aha!  I thought I remembered some scene involving a bloody Quentin portrait.  Here is some evidence that the portrait protects Quentin from harm:

 [spoiler]  In episode 844 Petofi slashes Quentin's cheek with a broken glass and the portrait absorbs the cut and starts bleeding.  Quentin himself remains unharmed.  But was it the portrait or Petofi using his magic to teach Quentin a lesson?  [/spoiler]


~Penny Dreadful~ of GSWASBDDS (Grad Students Who Avoid Studying By Discussing Dark Shadows)

[Midnite]

  Right, I don't recall if there's ever been any evidence in the show to support the idea that the painting actually prevents Quentin from being killed.  Then again, maybe it does?  I don't think they were particularly definite about it either way.

[spoiler]The night prior to Beth's attempt on Quentin's life was the first full moon that didn't cause him to change since he was cursed.  The portrait changed instead.  I think that's what Petofi meant by Q's life not being in danger from the shooting.  But that's just me.  [/spoiler]

~Penny Dreadful~ of GSWASBDDS (Grad Students Who Avoid Studying By Discussing Dark Shadows)

LOL  Is there such a thing as MWADDBDDS?  (Moms Who Avoid Doing Dishes By Discussing DS) 

[arashi]

That got me thinking, but didn't Petofi have the portrait painted in the first place? So if in the original timeline he never came there, then the portrait wouldn't have been painted at all.

Of course we can't know if Barnabas was not there to begin with. If he went back in time from the future and temporarily inhabited his body there, then his self that was there in 1897 wouldn't remember it having not made it to 1969 yet.

I'm guessing Beth shot him originally, but the reason may have changed due to Barnabas messing and or not messing with certain events.

[Connie]

 Aha!  I thought I remembered some scene involving a bloody Quentin portrait.  Here is some evidence that the portrait protects Quentin from harm:

 [spoiler]  In episode 844 Petofi slashes Quentin's cheek with a broken glass and the portrait absorbs the cut and starts bleeding.  Quentin himself remains unharmed.[/spoiler]

Yes!  This scene is what showed that not only did the portrait keep him from changing AND aging, but also protected his body from injury.  To me that equals immortality.  Can't be killed.

....according to an episode in the Leviathan sequence, if a werewolf is killed while in human form it will turn them into the animal forever (ep. 944).

Really?  I didn't know that.  Has that ever been indicated in any werewolf movies as well? 

~Penny Dreadful~ of GSWASBDDS (Grad Students Who Avoid Studying By Discussing Dark Shadows)

LOL  Is there such a thing as MWADDBDDS?  (Moms Who Avoid Doing Dishes By Discussing DS) 

Yes!  There's also MWWADABDDS -- Moms Who Will Avoid Doing ANYTHING By Discussing DS

 

[Penthea]

  Right, I don't recall if there's ever been any evidence in the show to support the idea that the painting actually prevents Quentin from being killed.  Then again, maybe it does?  I don't think they were particularly definite about it either way.    

[spoiler]Episode 856
QUENTIN/Petofi: The portrait that Charles painted of you, not only ended your curse, it also gave you... or should I say me, immortality![/spoiler]


Penthea

[MagnusTrask]

Immortal, providing you take care of yourself, I think.     Despite that scene that I don't remember myself, with Petofi slashing Q's face, or something, I believe all the other scenes in which Q isn't treated as absolutely immortal outweigh this.

[PennyDreadful]

Immortal, providing you take care of yourself, I think.     Despite that scene that I don't remember myself, with Petofi slashing Q's face, or something, I believe all the other scenes in which Q isn't treated as absolutely immortal outweigh this.

 Magnus, its episode 844.  But yeah, I know what you mean.  At other times in the show it seems Quentin can be killed (the aforementioned Gerard example).  I don't think they flat out said so either way.

 Penthea, good quote, but "immortality" might also mean that he just won't ever age.  I think the concept of the painting absorbing injury is pretty cool though, and adds to the sickly mangled look of the old Quentin we see in the painting in 1970.  My guess is that it protects him to degrees.

  Connie, I've never heard about this aspect of lycanthropy outside of DS.

 [spoiler]Jeb was terrified when Bruno said he'd do away with Chris while he was in human form, and explained to him why he mustn't do that.[/spoiler]

  They probably made it up for the show.  If I'm wrong, I'd love to know where else that particular legend comes from.

  Connie and Midnite, MWWADABDDS &  MWADDBDDS - LOL!  There are even more DS clubs than I thought!


~Penny Dreadful~

[PennyDreadful]

  From the evidence given in the series, I'm going on the assumption that the painting absorbs some amount of injury, but when Quentin's life is truly endangered, it sends out a "warning" to help protect him.

[Midnite]

yeah, I know what you mean.  At other times in the show it seems Quentin can be killed (the aforementioned Gerard example).  I don't think they flat out said so either way.

 Penthea, good quote, but "immortality" might also mean that he just won't ever age.

Aren't werewolves usually portrayed as immortal (theoretically, since there ARE ways of killing them) anyway, meaning they can't die of natural causes and, in some sources, don't age?  But if so, in the absence of an enchanted portrait, Beth could not have killed Quentin without a silver bullet in that gun. 

I think the concept of the painting absorbing injury is pretty cool though, and adds to the sickly mangled look of the old Quentin we see in the painting in 1970.  My guess is that it protects him to degrees.

That horrible portrait was another opportunity to rip off a classic horror movie, in this case not just the plot but also the portrait detail in '45 version of "The Picture of Dorian Gray."  Here's a grab from the movie, and if you look quickly enough you might think you were seeing the Q-man's portrait:  (Though the movie was shot in B&W, the portrait was usually shown in color.)

Connie, I've never heard about this aspect of lycanthropy outside of DS.
...
  They probably made it up for the show.  If I'm wrong, I'd love to know where else that particular legend comes from.

Oh, me too.  I can think of loads of examples in pop culture in which werewolves reverted to human form when killed in beast form, but none in which it was the other way around.  Anyone?

Great topic!

Jeb was terrified when Bruno said he'd do away with Chris while he was in human form, and explained to him why he mustn't do that.

That made me remember something else... [spoiler]Before Barnabas time tripped, Chris didn't return to his hunk, er, human form in the morning, but I don't think the reason was ever explained.  Could it be that Chris was killed and therefore destined to remain a werewolf forever, but the mysterious events causing his death were another change in the present caused by the sojourn in 1897?[/spoiler]

  Connie and Midnite, MWWADABDDS &  MWADDBDDS - LOL!  There are even more DS clubs than I thought!

I'm sure there are many more. 

Moms Who Will Avoid Doing ANYTHING By Discussing DS

Anything ?