The existence of the HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS long version

[Darren Gross]

Always nice to hear from you, Bri.

The industry politics can be a bit sad, can't it?

As for myself, if I win the lottery, I know where $100K is going- heck it would probably be tax deductable if I set up the appropriate fund name beforehand...

We'll just have to wait and hope for studio politics to work itself out. The terrible recession we're in isn't helping matters either. Studios and PR agencies are dropping people like flies and shutting down whole departments. As with most business, it seems more like a matter in preparation for presumed business losses months or a year or so down the line.

Putting 'risky' money into this is a scary concept for corporations at this time.

In the meantime, I'll continue spreading the word, looking for HODS elements, and making preparations for an eventual go-ahead.

Also- it looks like I'll be doing another NODS presentation with clips and Q & A for the June Festival.  Don't know the day or time yet, but I'm going to try for a full 45 mins this time.  

Weathering the storm,
Darren

[Brian]

Hi, Darren.

Thanks for the extra insight.  I wish I could be at the DS convention in LA this year, but I've made a promise to myself to go to the the DS Con in NY in 2003--exactly 10 years since I attended my first and only convention.  Hopefully, by then, you'll have made lots of progress with these projects, and I'll look forward to hearing you talk about your restoration work that "resulted in the final, director's version of NODS."  

In the meantime, if I get lucky with the lottery, I'll let you know.

Brian

[Darren Gross]

I'm taking those who wish on the journey this time. I thought it might be interesting for restoration fans to see how print investigations and leads develop, how they're followed up and what the results are.

I just found a lead on a 16mm HODS print- running time unknown. It's in the UK. Naturally hopes are high as this is the only print I've been able to find in the last 9 months. The last were at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences archive and at the UCLA archive but both were TV versions and didn't pan out.

A friend at MGM who I've been around and around with this mentioned a company in regards to an Australian rental inquiry that he wasn't sure I contacted. I hadn't, so I did. Long distance- at 2 in the AM. They, it turns out don't have any films they just secure licensing and lease agreements (and fees) for revival screenings etc.

When pressed, they kindly suggested another company and even gave an email to contact a particular person. I contacted him, and he came back with confirmation that a certain company does have a print in the UK.

I followed up, asking if they would be kind enough to check the reels and come back with a footage measurement so I could ascertain which version they have. Most catalogs and rental companies list a standard 97 min running time, having gotten that information from a studio reference or a film listing book. Very rarely do they actually check the print itself. If they come back with a measurement or are willing to do it is a 50-50 proposition. It takes about a half hour or so to do and smaller companies usually don't want to be bothered, especially if the print is in storage or off-site.

I'll post follow-ups as they develop.

[Gothick]

This is exciting news, Darren!  Let's hope the firm is willing to check their print.  It would be a tremendous find if it has the sequences you are trying to locate.

My big regret is that the Barnabas/Julia "walk" sequence is probably gone for good, since that was presumably trashed before any prints were struck from the master at MGM.

At least we have the stills.  The reconstruction of this sequence on Michael Miozza's DS films website is a must for Barnabas/Julia fans.

Gothick

[Brian]

Darren,

Thanks for sharing the latest in your efforts.  I'm one of those people who enjoys reading about things like film restoration and reconstruction of "lost" music from Broadway shows and films.  There's a book about the making of A STAR IS BORN and restoration in the 80s that I've read a couple of times in the past decade.  Also, the restoration of the score to SHOW BOAT as it was recorded by John McGlinn some years ago interested me.  So, in my opinion, no detail is too minor to include in your reporting.  Thanks for sharing your work.

Brian

[Darren Gross]

It's unknown whether the Barnabas/Julia walk scene was included in longer prints, but is certainly one of the more important cut scenes. I think all affect the story and structure in significant ways. My list of scenes that are crucially important are:

Extended opening with hanging
Julia/Barnabas walk
Greenhouse
Opening Carolyn's coffin
Stokes and Willie

There are other strong scenes as well, but these, I feel, would significantly add to the film and are particularly curious by their absence. Multiple reports had claimed that the Carolyn's coffin and hanging were included in the 16mm prints but it's uncertain whether the others were.

[Darren Gross]

No updates about the UK print but in the meantime I've been looking towards Australia and (thanks to a forum of fellow collectors) have secured a list of Australian film rental companies which I'll be calling and contacting to see if they have or ever had 16mm prints in inventory.

There's 18 companies. A few have websites, some are studio centered and useless to contact. (Don't think 20th Century fox would have it for rent, nope.) But will check into the others.

Also discovered that a branch of the Chicago public library was auctioning off a 5000 title film collection. I made an inquiry and HODS is not amongst their holdings.

I'll keep these posts going for a month just to give an idea to those with an interest, what's usually happening behind the scenes. I tend just to post updates on the restoration website when I have something to report, like a find or discovery.

As for restoration book recommendations, Ron Haver's A STAR IS BORN book is a must (good choice, Brian), as well as Kevin Brownlow's NAPOLEON book, the pictorial LAWRENCE OF ARABIA book which has a good chapter with photos and for a terrific overview of the whole ball of wax, OUR MOVIE HERITAGE can not be beat. Filled with terrific demonstrative photos, intelligent, compulsively readable text, it will expand your technical knowledge without burdening you with jargon. An expensive book ($30-40) but worth every penny. NITRATE WON'T WAIT and KEEPERS OF THE FRAME are more focused on archive history but have tons of useful info as well...

Off to check some site...

[Darren Gross]

Odd things...

So I call this Australian Film rental company (long distance, on my own dime, as usual) and ask about the title and the receptionist says, 'Someone just called about that 5 mins ago!...Are you sure it wasn't someone from your company?' Odd, this is the first call I've made today...Hmmm...Is someone out there poking around as well? It wasn't Jim as he leaves me alone to follow my leads.

Strange...

[Gothick]

How odd that someone was calling that company about hoDS.  Was Dark Shadows ever shown Down Under?   Maybe somebody was looking for a print to show at some fantasy/horror fest?  Were you around when those people wanted to screen a print of it at their drive in theatre, and they were unable to get hold of one?  That was very sad.

This is totally OT, but I wonder whether you have ever run into anyone interested in restoring the 2 Vincent Price Dr Phibes films (AIP productions from the early 70s).  The second one was slashed to ribbons similarly to NoDS--I read at the time that Vincent Price was disgusted because he had to re-loop some of his scenes as the existing dialogue made no sense because of the cuts!  

The movies were slashed a SECOND time due to the fact that AIP failed to pay licensing fees (or whatever they're called) for certain pieces of music used in the soundtrack scores.  So far as I know, the ONLY prints in current circulation of these movies are missing scenes that were still present in TV showings of the 1980s.  

It's a sad situation.  I can no longer enjoy watching these movies because every time I watch them I started ranting and raving about the *&@! cuts.  The last time AMC ran Dr. Phibes rises again was particularly offensive--the underscore for the first sequence in the film was practically inaudible, and bore NO relationship to what was going on onscreen!

What is it about early 70s horror films?  The only available print of Vault of Horror is similarly incomprehensible, though I have read that a complete print was released on Laserdisc in Japan.

Steve

[Darren Gross]

Hi Gothick.

HODS was released theatrically in Australia in 1970/1971 during its original release. According to the official press sheets it was shortened by a few minutes for censorship reasons. In the intervening years a few reports have come from Australia also mentioning screening revival prints of the longer print that I'm searching for.

I'm unaware of the drive-in print request, but would love to hear more about it...

Don't want to stray too far off-topic on this thread so I've started another one about Phibes and music rights...

.......Well, I started another thread and wrote this great piece about music rights and Phibes and it all went poof when I lost the connection, so here's the caveman rewrite.

1. Phibes 1- music rights problems

2. Phibes rises again- music problems cleared for DVD- 'Somewhere over the rainbow' is included on disc. Disregard packaging. Was unaware of cuts to film but it feels like scenes are missing. If it was director's choice, then restoration unlikely. MGm restoration people good. Will ask friend about Phibes.

3. Music rights problems are video only. Theatrical prints for revival screenings or campus rentals would have correct music tracks. For films like CONQUEROR WORM, PHIBES, it's essential...

4. Film music contracts did not include home video until the 80s, only clearances for theatrical and TV. For video studio needs to renegotiate music for video and pay $$$. If artist/label greedy (99% of time) or artist missing, big problem...

ugh!

[Gothick]

Hi Darren,

Many thanks for taking the time to comment upon my OT whinging about the Phibes films. I hadn't heard that the missing scenes/cues had been restored for the DVD release--this is exciting news!  I wish reviewers would include this kind of info when they review the discs! Ah well...  I could've sworn I checked the Video Watchdog reviews for the Phibes DVD, but not a clue about any restoration there.

I suspect that the footage slashed in the original cut (to bring the film down to the 90 minute running time dictated by AIP) has been lost.  But Director Robert Fuest is still active & on the scene so far as I know, so he may still have a copy of the intact thing.  Who knows.  

Getting back to hoDS, I wonder whether "Japanese version" prints might not be around over in Japan that might have the lost footage?  It might be worth tracing ...

Christopher Lee reminisces in his long interview on the new City of the Dead ("Horror Hotel") DVD about filming the Kharis tongue-slicing sequence from the front for "the Japanese version."  He said that he has still never seen a print that contained this footage.

Steve

[Darren Gross]

My pleasure.

I'm not sure about Phibes 1's music track on dvd. I think that one still has some probs. Phibes 2 is the one I know has been corrected. It was a big deal on many web review sites, but it's been a while so I can't remember the magazine coverage.

I'm 90% sure the Japanese release is the one that has the footage and have made steps in investigating that for HODS. The language barrier is a huge problem. I sent a letter (both in English and in clunky Japanese) to the Tokyo Museum of Art which has an extensive film collection but have yet to receive any kind of response. The Japanese audio master held in the US was of the standard version. That's not too unusual, though. There are other elements from a Japanese that are not held in the US (like the Japanese title sequence, the dupe negative, the trailer material and the subtitle opticals) that must he held by an archive, lab or rental facility in Japan. Most Japanese releases of English language films are subtitled, not dubbed, so there certainly had to be a subtitle master.
The MGM distribution center is no longer operating over there but I would like to find some Japanese film rental companies that may have prints, but again the language barrier is a problem.

I have a friend who is looking into possible non-returned holdings in Australia and Japan. (He had someone start making calls before I was aware which is probably who called that Aussie company before me last week.)

[Brian]

FYI, I've purchased a HODS and a NODS lobby poster (through eBay) from Australian sellers--both similar to our American posters, but also different enough to make them interesting.  Each is about 13.25" x 30", on thin paper, and appear to be artists' renderings of portions of the American posters, i.e., the HODS poster  features Carolyn's face as she is staked, and the NODS poster features Angelique and Quentin.  (I also have two American posters--one from each film--which are my frame of reference.)

Not that this post has much to do with the questions, but I thought I'd share because it confirms the "down under" release of these films.

Brian

[Darren Gross]

The Australian daybill posters are interesting, aren't they Brian?
The paper is so thin (almost like onionskin) and delicate and the image was clearly drawn by hand. The NODS slogan for Australia 'Ghost on a love rampage' is a hoot as well.
There's this guy who pops up on ebay and sells these all the time. He must have boxes of them!
The Australian press sheets (basically a two sided pressbook) list the films footage and running times and HODS was about 5 mins shorter and NODS about 3 mins shorter. That, of course if the official 35mm release.

With 16mm repertory, the lengths are unknown...

Made a follow up call and email about the UK print length yesterday morning, but still no word.

[Darren Gross]

One thing I would love to find is the Japanese video release of the two films.

When you order the video from Amazon Japan the cover artwork is identical to the US one and it is not stated if its subtitled or dubbed so it would appear to be the company is just making the same US tapes available over there.

There must have been a release (probably in the 80's) on Japanese VHS which is now out of print. That tape could have been mastered from a longer print and it would be nice to know for sure. It never shows up on ebay (been checking for 6 years) so short of flying out there and looking in video stores and rental shops, finding it is a bit of a challenge.

Thankfully, I've been able to obtain copies (or examine) of the French, UK, and Spanish vids for HODS which were the standard cut...