The existence of the HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS long version

[Darren Gross]

Most of you board regulars have heard this before, but we've got some new members, so...

The standard release of HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS runs 97 mins. A few 16mm prints were struck and distributed which contained several cut scenes. These ran anywhere from 5-15 mins longer and the studio (MGM/Turner) and Dan Curtis do not have them any more.

If you own a 16mm print of the film, PLEASE email me immediately. The prints are probably fairly worn and certainly fading (they were printed on Eastmancolor stock). I'm desperate to preserve and restore this footage before the color deteriorates beyond saving or  the film is damaged beyond restoration. Even completely red or pinkish faded prints can be of use!

We're (DCP and myself) offering a hefty cash reward in order to borrow one of these prints and could probably throw in some nice perks (lunch with one of the actors or something) as well.

If you know someone that has a print, please let me know. I've been at this for about 2 years now and have yet to find a single person. I'd love to show this missing footage at a DS Festival- but we need your help to find it first! Keep you're eyes open at garage sales or flea markets- lost TV series episodes (Dr. Who etc.) and other rare lost footage has been found this way. You never know!

[JVjr.]

Hi Darren, I was under the impression that the restoration of NODS and HODS was basically scrapped. That there was no interest in pursuing it. I hope this message that you are writing here, means that you are still having hope that the restoration project is still alive and well. If this is the case, then what progress have you heard of or what progress is being made to have these movies restored and available to the public to view. If you can answer these questions, then please let us know. It's just that I have heard nothing for so long and was wondering. Thank You Darren.

[Darren Gross]

SCRAPPED?  Never!
The teaser clips shown at the 2001 DS Festival and 30th Anniversary Vista screenings went over so well!

Essentially, we're kind of in a holding pattern. The studio doesn't have any interest at this time in restoring NODS- at least as far as the home video division is concerned.

The video division felt that there would be a strong chance of doing it if DS was in the spotlight again- ie: another series, feature film etc. Since the proposed Fox pilot was rejected, they're attitude hasn't changed. I was also hoping that having the restoration higlighted in the 'Sciography' show (they interviewed me doing a transfer of some footage to video and were going to show the hanging scene) would help as well. Since the 'Sciography' show (and the fan profile show) isn't going to air, that didn't work either.

There is still the TCM division that I'm targeting. I've had fans emailing requests to TCM (www.tcm.turner.com) for them to show and restore the 129 min version in order to build up ground support. Fans should continue to send their requests in, even if they have before. Once I feel enough time has passed and the appropriate people are aware of the film and it's hotly-requested (I hope) status, we'll approach them. I'd say, in a couple of months. Since the other attempts with cable, foreign TV, rental film and video failed, I want to make sure that our pitch to TCM is as strong as it could possibly be. Having them actually know what the proposed restoration is (via the email requests) should certainly help.

As far as HODS is concerned, there is nothing for the studio to restore- the missing footage has yet to show up. Once it does, that's a different matter. Because HODS is a stronger seller, the restoration of footage to that title would probably interest them more than the NODS one. If the HODS footage is recovered, I could then pitch a restoration of BOTH titles to them. Since the costs would be spread out over both films, it would probably seem less of a gamble. It's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about finding this HODS footage- it could help the restorations of both films.

As far as actual restoration work is concerned, Jim Pierson  and I are considering the value of re-recording the missing dialogue now. With that in hand, at least we'd be secure, knowing that the dialogue was preserved, in case anything should happen to the actors before restoration becomes possible.

Please be sure to check out the FAQ page on the website (www.nightofdarkshadows.com) for many updated questions and answers...

It may take awhile, but I'm confident it will happen eventually. If it's ever officially scrapped you'll know, because I'll post it on several sites, write an article and shut down the website....

[Darren Gross]

Made a bit of a discovery doing research today.
In a Japanese film reference source, HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS' Japanese release date (March 1971) with a documented running time of 101 minutes...I've seen another source with a 102 minute time, so I think that pretty much narrows down the proposed length of the longer version. It would appear that anywhere from 4 to 5-1/2 minutes of footage comprises the longer version. This would be enough for the David hanging, Stokes and Willie, Opening Carolyn's coffin scenes and any slightly longer additions of violence that might be there.
For decades, the Japanese received more explicit versions, so that would seem to at least pinpoint the source of this version.  A Japanese fan swore that he has seen a longer edition in Japan. Looks like he was right!

Unfortunately, if there are any Japanese film archives, they are not part of the international archive federation, so trying to track them down will be a great pain in the keister...

[Darren Gross]

For another account of a proposed restoration project with similar difficulties check out this piece on Robert Harris' proposed restoration of IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD.
It's nice to know we're not alone! (I've talked to Harris about the DS films restorations. His tips basically confirmed that I've been looking in the right places and approaching the correct people.)

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/madworld/mad.html

[Brian]

For what it's worth, I hope we will all get behind Darren and DCP, and support the efforts at restorations of both HODS and NODS.!!  If you have any connections to film, TV, collectors, etc--please send them a plea to help in the search for missing footage from HODS and NODS--and let WB know how much we want to see restored versions of the films.

Brian

[Raholt]

Darrin,

I hate to sound like a wet blanket, but my sister works as Vice President of Operations for TCM.  When TCM was owned by Turner Broadcasting, it is true they were very active in film preservation and restoration.  However, since Turner was merged with AOL Time Warner, all such activities have stopped.  All proposed projects as well as those in the works were stopped and abandoned almost immediately after Warner took control.  When it was Turner, they were at the forefront in film preservation and restoration, but as soon as Warner came into the picture all that stopped and they became like AMC, where the company donates money to film restoration and then claims they are truely concerned with and involved in  film restoration and preservation but really they just give money.  The rest of the former committment that Turner had to these things are now gone.  If Ted Turner was still in control and it was the old Turner Broadcasting, I would say go for it and that your requests would be listened to, but now Warner has a closed mind to such things.

When Warner took over not only did they abandon all film preservation projects but also halted release of a good portion of the movie library that Turner had.  Part of that collection was the old RKO studio movies, which Turner had pulled from release, to remaster and rerelease under the TCM Video logo.  This was to be done in stages, but when Warner took over, the project was scrapped and the previous releases stopped from production.  Warner has very little interest in the films that were originally part of MGM's or RKO's film library, which the DS films are a part of.  They just wanted to get ahold of part of their own film libary which had been split in half many years earlier.  Therefore, alot of MGM movies were pulled from the market and others, some major classics, have not been rereleased, with no future plans to do so.  This is because Warner says there is no market for older films, which is a crock.  They believe that only new releases sell and that the money and the market is there, but the success of TCM and AMC prove otherwise.  With regard to TCM, Warner went as far as to consider adding commericals to the station but that was protested and for now that idea has been abandoned.  

If you have dealt with Warner video regarding NODS restoration then going to TCM for either of the DS movies is really a futile attempt because they are both controled by AOL Time Warner and both have the same policies and constriction, placed on them by their parent company, who seems to not understand the marketplace and how much people truely enjoy older films and want them saved, restored and preserved for generations to come.

As I said in the beginning of this message, I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the idea of restoring either of these films, but I felt that you should know this so that you would not waste your time and efforts trying to seek help from the same source under a different name...Warner.

Richard Holt  

[Darren Gross]

Thanks for the info, Richard. I remember reading some of your insights on another forum.

Sadly, what you say is true about home video having  no interest in releasing the classics. I know that in the case of RKO titles, the main point of contention is that the profits have to be split between Turner and RKO, and Turner/Warners would rather release something they own entirely. This of course puts titles like the Val Lewton classics and others in a bad position.

I know that TCM inspired restoration projects still happen- the last were Rick Schmidlin's restorations of ELVIS, THAT'S THE WAY IT IS and GREED. These were probably okayed before the merger, but everything I've been told is that the separate divisions maintain their own budgets and authorizations for their own projects. A friend put it best, describing each division as separate, but equal fiefdoms. That's how things like the GREED restoration will be given a big TV push for its premiere broadcast, but video marketing totally drops the ball by not releasing or pre-listing a video of it for a few years after- and no DVD at all.

These are grave things that you say, but like all things in Hollywood, could turn around quite quickly. A new DS series, a movie; any number of 'in-the-spotlight' projects could happen quite quickly and you can be quite sure video would be interested in capitalizing on the press from that. And if Warners were the ones to release the project, perhaps Dan would make it a clause in his contract or agreement.

In the case of HODS, the money required for that restoration- if the print could be found- would be negligible and I'm sure we could pay for it or raise enough to pay for it. Then, it's just a matter of letting video use that restored footage.

These are all longshots, of course, and require a bit of blind faith and hope.  Sometimes, it seems very easy (and would probably a wise idea) to just throw in the towel and forget it, but at this point I've sank so much time, effort, and money into it, that I want to give it one last try before doing that.

[Luciaphile]

Well, this background information explains much of what's happened with AMC and TCM.  (sigh).

I don't think you should give up hope, Darren.  

All I can suggest is that we continue to express our opinions to the Behometh that is AOL/TimeWarner.  Maybe it's like shouting into a hurricane, but hey, you have to try.

When AMC started showing schlock and commercials, I stopped watching.  I also sent them a letter explaining why.  Not that it's changed anything, but you never know.

Luciaphil

[ALBERT CAMUS]

Here are some ideas...

What about embracing the new technology of the internet and having people pay to download a webcast of it?

How much would it cost to acquire teh rights to NODS just out of curiosity? That is always a possibility, though it would require someone with a great deal of money. However, donations could possibly be made at festivals over a number of years. I have no idea how mcuh such a venture would cost, or if Dark Shadows fans would have the ability to raise that kind of money.

At the very least, I'll buy the rights to it when I am older and rich. But that will be a great while from now, I fear!

[Albert Camus]

Also, what about trying to get this going in a foreign market? Fans could then import it? If it's PAL, secam, mesesecam, or whatever format,  fans can simply pay the $10 to convert it. And if a foreign television network were interested in it, then what about the possibility of fans just trading bootlegged copies of the broadcast?

[Darren Gross]

Hi 'Albert.' Thanks for the suggestions- I'll answer them the best I can.

1) Warners does NOT license their titles. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS. DON'T ASK. DON'T CALL. DON'T TRY. (Their CAPS, not mine.) We tried anyway, being Dan the producer/director/co-writer etc. of the show wanted to license them. They won't do it not to us or Criterion or Anchor Bay or  any one else.

2) There's no money in the internet download option, plus there would have to be a finished restored version to download. People promising their intention to download and pay wouldn't work- just ask Stephen King.

3) Have tried ALL TV markets within the studio, especially foreign and cable.  Not enough interest or money in those divisions. Worst of all, when Sci-Fi was approached by the studio about buying the broadcast rights to the film (NODS) for a few year period, they said that they would pay the same amount whether it was restored or not, that it made no difference to them. (Gong!)

4) The only TV market not approached is TCM- that's the last holdout.

5) Foreign video divisions have also been approached. No go.

    As a side note, doing a foreign edition would be just as problematic as restoring the film and would cost a significant amount than just the US restoration. This is because the only foreign audio tracks that were made were of the short version. We'd have to just as much work re-looping and re-editing the foreign voices as we would on the US version. The restoration itself is a $100,000 project. Each foreign edition would rack on $10,000 more per language or more.

[Brian]

It seems to me that a restoration cost of $100,000, in the grand scheme of things "Hollywood," is a relatively low amount of money.  Certainly, there is someone associated with NODS who can afford (i.e., could/would) cough up the $$ for this project.

[Darren Gross]

Well, it's certainly not me!

Yes, in the Hollywood scheme of things, it's pennies, but most studios' film and cultural memory goes back 2 years. DS, what's that? Dan Curtis, who's that?

No, I'm not kidding.

[Brian]

Darren,

Since I work at an Union Business Agent representing Equity actors at Walt Disney World, I can understand the "hollywood" system and its way of doing things.  As I've said before, I wish I had the wealth to finance the project--but my salary doesn't allow for such "extravagances."

Also, like they say about actors in TV or Hollywood, "you're only as good as your last 'hit!'"

LOL.

Brian