DS - Could It Have Continued To Today?

[Philippe Cordier]

This idea occurred to me this afternoon and I jotted it down, thinking I'd post it sometime in the future.  Then I logged in here and read the latest comments in the "1966" thread which basically asked the same thing or at least touched on it.  Do Stefan, Luciaphil, and I have shared ESP ... or does the question arise just out of a natural progression in thought processes from earlier comments made?

In response to my comment about the "form" fitting the "style" in the later years of DS, Stefan wrote:

Even though I hear DS was original going to be cancelled I wonder IF they had kept the original "soap opera" tone the show might have lasted longer (with some modifications) and might have been easier to manage.

And Luciaphil wrote:

What always strikes me is that if they'd kept that depth going when they'd brought in the supernatural plots in a big way, the show could have gone on to be something even better than what it was

What got me thinking about this question (without having seen the above comments) was my feeling of loss this afternoon in not having DS running on TV daily anymore.  There's something comforting and also stimulating about a continuing saga, unravelling in series format.  Many of the great 19th century novels were written that way -- Dickens, Tolstoy's Vojna i mir (War and Peace), for example.  Considering the enormous popularity of those novels at the time, and later, in our own time, of the soap opera format, it seems the 19th century writers really hit on something that tapped into people's psyches.

Then, I remembered something I had read about how some soap opera had lasted 40 years or something.

I began to wonder, somewhat wistfully, what "Dark Shadows" might have been like if it had continued running continuously into the present day.  Could it have done so?  It seems the series couldn't have continued that long if it had gone for more monsters etc.  But perhaps if it had switched tacks a little and kept with the gothic and supernatural ... there doesn't seem a good reason why this couldn't have worked (or is there?).

Actually, the last storyline might have served well for a segue into this new format ... melodrama mixed with supernatural elements in a different time period.

Just imagine if Collinwood had continued on with us in our daily lives, with many of the same actors still on the show today -- Jonathan Frid, David Selby, Nancy Barrett, Kathryn Leigh Scott ...  Those who died would have had their characters die, too.

The show could have continued with Collinwood in real time, but continued to delve into previous time periods.

[Luciaphile]

I began to wonder, somewhat wistfully, what "Dark Shadows" might have been like if it had continued running continuously into the present day.  Could it have done so?  It seems the series couldn't have continued that long if it had gone for more monsters etc.  But perhaps if it had switched tacks a little and kept with the gothic and supernatural ... there doesn't seem a good reason why this couldn't have worked (or is there?).

I've been watching soaps for an increasingly large percentage of my life now, so I'll take a shot at Monday morning quarterbacking.

The short answer is yes, but we're talking realms of possibility, so it's always going to be yes.

There would need to have been substantial changes in how the show was put together. I know a lot of the posters here watch soaps, some of them have probably been doing it for longer than me (and perhaps more faithfully; I tend to switch shows). Most soaps follow certain rules and conventions that DS would have needed to inject into the show. This is what they would have needed to do, IMHO:

1. The pace: Months of your life cannot be going by while on the show it's still that same Tuesday, but the show can't be zipping by in light speed either. The plot has got to be understandable to new viewers without boring the existing ones.

2. New characters: I'm sorry but everybody living on one estate does not a successful serial make. The best soaps try and continually incorporate new characters with the older ones. It's a balancing act. I don't know that they ever really got the knack of it on DS with the non-Collinses. Most other soaps would have taken characters like Willie or Julia or Maggie and brought their relatives, past-lovers, etc. to town.

3. Setting: They had this going in the beginning of the show and then dropped it gradually. By the end, it was pretty much Collinwood. Even when characters went off to the Blue Whale or whatever, it was usually them and one lonely extra, which created a weird insular feeling.

4. The plot: I actually think they could have gone on a lot longer with the supernatural stuff. That was the draw. That's what made DS unique. That's what DS did best. The trick would have been to develop the supernatural plots considerably more and inject them with more of the conventional stuff of daytime drama. Heck, on AMC, they take a stupid misunderstanding and it lasts months; I watch something like Sam's death on DS, and it's over in minutes. To use a supernatural example, look at the 1840 stuff--that goes by in a lickety-split pace whether it works or not. It's like they were being directed by George Lucas: "faster, more intense."

Above all, I think they ultimately needed to keep the human angle in all the stories. A reason people liked Barnabas was because of all the angst. A reason people were fascinated by Angelique was because all of her actions--supernatural and otherwise--were dictated by her emotions. Then there were all the secondary characters effected by the leads. Their reaction, the effects this had on them could have been included.

Don't know that DS could have gone on to be GL, but I think it could have lasted at least another 5 years.

[dom]

Nicely stated, Luciaphil.

I'd only add that the production values would have had to increase dramatically. I think the 'live to tape' would have to stop, tombstones would need to be stable, microphone booms would have to stay out of frame, squeeky camera stand wheels would need to be oiled on a regular basis, doors would need to remain shut once closed, and production assistants would need to stay out of frame, etc. And perhaps using actors with a bit more experience than they had in the past. JMHO of course.

dom

[Raineypark]

Of course it COULD have lasted......hell, "East Enders" has been on since Victoria was Queen, hasn't it?

The show, the plots, the characters and all the performers would have changed over the years.....but it would have lasted.  Because soap operas are the art form most like life itself....only with better clothes and more sex.

[michael c]

it could have lasted longer if they had paced it more thoughtfully and introduced new supernatural elements more gradually or eliminated some altogether.a strange thing happened after 1795,they realized the supernatural stuff improved the show's ratings,so they threw everything out there they possibly could.vamires,werewolves,witches,frankenstein,zombies in just a couple years.after 1795,they could have gone on for months with cassandra alone,like the laura story,rather than toss in the adam/eve stuff right away.it would have created more suspense.but at the rate it went they left themselves with nowhere else to go and it burned itself out.

[stefan]

That about sums it up. It's shame really. But we're all left with some golden moments anyhoo.

[Miss_Winthrop]

Very interesting comments! I personally liked the insular feeling of DS in it's later years but wouldn't have minded an occasional sidetrack into the lives of say, Susie the waitress, or the relatives of Mr. Wells or what was going on up at the cannery. Maybe insight into the lives of the people who live and the Collinses farms. I would have liked to have seen what was going on in the lives of Roger, Laura and Burke when they were all friends before the accident. It seems like Burke may have spent a good deal of time up at Collinwood hanging out with Roger and Laura.  It would be nice to have seen what was going on with Roger and Elizabeth at the time their father died and responsiblity for the Collin's estate was left to Liz. Would Carolyn have attended high school in Collinsport with Maggie and Joe or was she in a private school? The Jennings  brothers and how they interacted with Joe and Maggie would've been nice.  Even Dr. Lang's medical practice(?) before Barnabas.  You just know that he's got a story to tell! There was just so much more that I personally would have enjoyed. But alas, it'll never be.

[Nelson Collins]

Wow, Miss Winthrop, you make me long for a PT where Dark Shadows had continued to the present day.  I especially like the idea of a flashback during the younger days of the characters.  Uunfortunately, Barnabas have to be absent, but yes, the foolish salad days of Roger, Paul, Jason, Burke, Laura, Sam, infant Carolyn and maybe delving into the mystery of Victoria a little (Roger discovers that Elizabeth is sending money to a foundling home, why?  An indiscretion of hers? Of Paul's? Or, tension between Roger and Liz because because she once more as the older sister has to clean up one of Roger's messes?).  Makes the mouth water!

[Miss_Winthrop]

Nelson: I have an idea that Victoria is not an indiscretion of Liz's but rather Paul or Bill.  Bill Malloy made a statement while having a far away look on his face of something very traumatic that had happened 20 yrs prior which would have put that at 1946.  Maybe something between Ned, Bill, Liz and Vicki's mother? What about all those years that Mrs. Johnson was carrying the torch for Bill Malloy supposedly after her husband died? What about her son Harry? He was apparently bad news! What was going on in Collinwood before Liz was born? Roger talks about being terrified as a child in Collinwood.  Carolyn dealt with the terror since she was a child too. Roger was born in 1926. Sam Evans mentioned hiding Maggie up in Canada with some friends during the Barnabas scare. I get the impression that the Collinses, while still having wealth, suffererd a financial blow sometime during the 10 years that Burke was away that they hadn't recovered from. There is a connection between the Stokes and Collinses family that goes way back. Was it totally severed in the years between 1795 and 1968? I believe Prof Stokes lived in either Rockport or Lockport. PT would be good!

[Nelson Collins]

Reading your response, Miss Winthrop, reminded me of the early eps of the show (which I have not seen, just read synopses) where Victoria discovers a painting of a Betty Hanscomb (sp?) that bears a strong resemblance to Victoria.  As I recall, both Liz and Roger protested a bit too much that the painting didn't look like Vicki at all when Carolyn pops in and proclaims just the opposite!

Didn't the Collins' employ a butler by that name who had a daughter named Betty?  Was she employed by the Collins' as well?  I am wondering if Bill or Paul or even Roger may have dallied with Betty and Liz sent her and her father away to avoid scandal when Betty's condition became apparent.    I tend to lament the storylines that just petered out (the mystery of Victoria's parentage, Adam disappearing to have plastic surgery to remove his scars and never appearing again, etc.)  I guess that kind of thing happened a lot in soaps then. 

[Miss_Winthrop]

One of the reasons I don't believe that Liz is Vicki's mother is because of her strong love for Carolyn & David.  If Vicki was her daughter, she would've done everything in her power to make her life (Vicki's) easier and not by just sending $50 a month for her upkeep. I think she always indulged Carolyn in expensive things. She strikes me as the type of person who is going to do the right thing if at all possible. When she thought she killed Paul, she hid herself away on the estate like a recluse because of the torment she was feeling. My guess about Betty is that she was the daughter of the butler and probably hung out at Collinwood.  She got involved with Bill who was in love with Liz. When Liz rejected Bill, he sought comfort with Betty. The only fly in the ointment is that since Vicki looks so much like Betty, wouldn't Bill have noticed? The other option is that Paul was with Betty thus producing Vicki.  But then, Liz would have had to have forgiven Paul and taken him as her husband despite that.  Maybe she didn't know about Vicki at first but discovered the connection after she married Paul. The money for Vicki started coming in when she was about 2 years old. I gather that Vicki is two years older than Carolyn. Carolyn was an infant when Paul disappeared from the scene.

[Joeytrom]

[spoiler]Hanscombe the butler was also the man whom Roger ran down and killed in 1956 and blamed Burke for.[/spoiler]

[Midnite]

[spoiler]Hanscombe the butler was also the man whom Roger ran down and killed in 1956 and blamed Burke for.[/spoiler]

I don't think the Collins butler was the hit and run victim.  There's a scene in which Sam and Vicki are discussing the portrait of Betty that he had painted years earlier, and he tried to remember the model's name starting with Hanson but settling on Hanscombe.  Maggie overhears and says, "Hanson?" and asks something like, "Isn't that the name of the guy that Burke killed?"  But Sam corrects her that it's Hanscombe, with a C, that they're talking about.  I think this is the only time the pedestrian's name is mentioned, so fans have accepted that the victim's name was Hanson, or Hansen.

I think the scene was written this way to segue into a discussion about Burke's conviction.

[victoriawinters]

...If Vicki was her daughter, she would've done everything in her power to make her life (Vicki's) easier and not by just sending $50 a month for her upkeep.

That was a lot of money back then!  I could have bought a bunch of stuff at the five & dime with that much money per month.  But, love and comfort of a mother would have been more important then that anyway. 

[Gerard]

That certainly was a great deal of money back then!  In 1966, our dentist charged two dollars to fill a tooth.  Among my friends who received an allowance, the average was 25 cents a week.  One girl stunned us when she revealed that her parents gave her a dollar a week - she was wealthy beyond belief in our eyes.  When I was cleaning out my parents' house, I found the hospital bill for when my mother gave birth to me (that was in 1957).  She was in the hospital for five days (stays that long were common back then) and the entire bill came to - are you ready for this? - 250 dollars.  Fifty bucks a month sent to Vicki's foundling home would more than cover all expenses, and even pay for her college education.

Gerard