My Dream Collinwood (or would we really want "purely American" 1790s architecture?)

As for the house they'll use as Collinwood - I think I miight actually be anticipating learning that news more than I am learning who'll be cast in the remaining roles. 

What are you hoping for, exactly?  Historical accuracy?  I'm not sure WHAT a rich man's house would have looked like in 1790's Maine....but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have looked anything like the one used for the original series.  And despite being called a "gothic" soap opera, gothic architecture didn't become popular in the States until the mid-19th century.

Of course, there's always Second Empire....the quintisential "haunted house"....mansard roofs and French doors.  That's MY favorite style of house and I'd love to see it....but it certainly wouldn't be correct for the time Collinwood was built.

What are you hoping for, exactly?  Historical accuracy?  I'm not sure WHAT a rich man's house would have looked like in 1790's Maine

If we're talking the more popular styles the New England mansions were built in in the 1790s, then definitely a big NO!

The two most popluar styles were the Federal (1780-1820):

• 1) Semicircular or elliptical fanlight over paneled door
• 2) Cornice emphasized with toothlike dentils or other decorative moldings
• 3) Windows with double-hung (upper and lower) sashes, typically with six panes per sash
• 4) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door

and Early Classical Revival (1770-1830):

• 1) facade dominated by entry porch with four columns
• 2) Semicircular or elliptical fanlight over paneled door
• 3) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door

In most instances, the Federal facade is way too uninteresting for my taste. Early Classical Revial is a bit more interesting - but my main problem with both is the symmetry of everything around the central door. BORING! Also, the interiors of both styles are generally way too plain. But the worst part about both is that neither design was used to build a mansion of the magnitude we associate with Collinwood and its closed off wings filled with secrets just waiting to spring out at us. 

but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have looked anything like the one used for the original series.

Well, it is and it isn't. Seaview is patterned after a French chateau rather than an English or Colonial design. Who can say for sure if someone like Joshua Collins would have actually gone with something French rather than English? (Though, considering the attitudes he displays in the 1795 storyline, I'd be inclined to say no.  ) But the style isn't wholely inappropriate for something that might have been built in the 1790s. And truthfully, some of the house's actual interiors were taken from 17th century European mansions - something I suspect Joshua might have definitely done. And, of course, we have to remember that when they chose Seaview, the original backstory was that Jeremiah had built Collinwood for Josette back in the 1830s, which would have not only made its design more period appropriate but a whole lot more plausible. But once the decision was made to shift the backstory to 1795 and completely drop the Josette angle, they couldn't very well find a completely new house to stand in as Collinwood. 

Outside of the shear magnitude of the house, one of my favorite aspects of it is that no one could ever say that Seaview has a symmetrical desgin. And that brings me to a style that I think would certainly be appropriate for Collinwood - and that's English Tudor.

Say what you will about the LA location for the '91 series, but Greystone, with its classic Tudor design:

• 1) facade dominated by one or more prominent cross gables, sometimes with half-timbering
• 2) massive chimneys, commonly crowned by decorative chimney pots
• 3) tall, narrow windows, commonly in multiple groups and with multipane glazing
• 4) steeply pitched roof, usually side-gabled
• 5) entry has round arch or flattened, pointed arch

was a perfect choice for Collinwood - particularly when one realizes that Barnabas explained during his first visit to the family that the house was actually built on the moors near Lime Regis on the southwest coast of England, disassemled, transported piece by piece and loaded aboard ships, and sailed to Collinsport, where it was reassembled. I felt that opened a whole slew of storyline opportunities, possibly dating as far back as the 15th and 16th centuries. But alas...

My hope, though, is that the WB DS will have a similar backstory for Collinwood. And if so, I'm hoping that they might go with a slightly different Tudor design - one similar to the 65 room Stan Hywet Hall (which, unfortuantely for DS' filming puposes, is located in Akron, Ohio):

According to the book Great American Houses and their Archetectural styles (which Midnite kindly gifted me with because she knows one of my hobbies is studying archetecture - hence my keen interest in what type of house will be chosen as Collinwood), this house was patterned after three Tudor mansions in England: Ockwells Manor in Bershire (c. 1450), Compton Wynyates in Warwickshire (c. 1500), and Haddon Hall in Derbyshire (c. 1550). One of the reasons I love the style of this house as one that has great potential for Collinwood is because it combines aspects of both Seaview and Lyndhurst into a wholely appropriate design style:

A partial view of the front facade



A partial view of the back facade

The interiors of Stan Hywet Hall are even the way I picture Collinwood could easily look. Check out:

The tower stairs, where one can easily imagine Barnabas' portrait hanging in place of the one there
The Great Hall, which is slightly reminiscent of the set built for the '91 series and the drawing room at Seaview (right down to the moose (at Seaview - elk or whatever here) head)
The dining room, with a ceiling that's very similar to one at Seaview
and The breakfast room.

And even though this particular house is located in Ohio, there are mansions in the LA area that have an extremely similar style. I've seen them used as locations in such series as Murder She Wrote and The Father Dowling Mysteries. IMHO, we should only be so lucky as to find out that a house similar to this is playing the part of our beloved Collinwood. 

Of course, there's always Second Empire....the quintisential "haunted house"....mansard roofs and French doors.  That's MY favorite style of house and I'd love to see it....but it certainly wouldn't be correct for the time Collinwood was built.

No, but I love that style too. We have several wonderful examples of Second Empire homes in the city I live in. When I actually had more free time (think BI - Before Internet  ) and did volunteer work for the local Architectual Society, I used to love to lead tours through them as well as others in the city. Alas, those days are a thing of the past... (Though I did get to meet and watch Aerosmith shoot a video in a local church the society was involved in saving, and which, I'm happy to say, has since been completely restored and turned into an incredible banquet hall because its administration building has been restored/coverted into a culinary arts school.)

Is a house in the Norman/French Chateau style actually historically accurate for New England in the late 18th Century?  My first thought would be....how did they get any part of it dismantled, crated and shipped....in the middle of the French Revolution?

At the same time, I don't think we're hoping for historical accuracy....that would indeed be the Federal style, and while I completely disagree with your take on symmetry (it is NOT boring....it's pleasing to the eye and psychologically soothing) it doesn't make for a good setting for the supernatural.

Collinwood would almost certainly be a bit of a hodge-podge.  One house, in the hands of the same family for 200 years couldn't HELP but be a standing history of architectural styles over the course of its life. The real determining factor would have been who was in charge when rennovations became neccesary, and who held the purse-strings when the family fortunes rose enough to warrant adding on to the house.

Regarding what they might choose for the new series.....well, I honestly think that decision is more likely to be about what they think the audience will respond to, than what might actually be the right choice for historical or architectural considerations.  Let's just consider ourselves lucky if it isn't a Villa in Tuscany.....

     I love MB's idea of an ancient house being re-built.  The old houses I have seen here in Maine are simple colonials with clapboards and shutters(very no frills in keeping with its puritan roots)  Architecture in Maine didn't get interesting until the Victorian era.  Of course, over the years people have remuddled them with siding and bizarre additions.  My husband is an architect and we were interested in an old house that used to be a tavern.  He said the grand staircase in the entry hall went no where.  It ended abruptly half way up because a closet was built upstairs.  The only way upstairs was in the kitchen.   The windows were all painted shut.  He tried to open one of the windows and cut his hand.  I told him the house was telling him to get out.

Wow, MB!

Thanks for posting the pictures.  That Hywet House is the most perfect place for Collinwood.  What a beautiful house!!!  Can't wait to visit the links of the interior later on.  (Duty calls, damn it)   

-CLC
In the mood for architecture

HI MB thanks for the pics as well, I would love
to live in Hewyett Hall my what a goregous looking
house!!!
YUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    Love Anne

Absolutely fascinating thread!

I'm looking forward to studying the information here more closely ... I had questioned the authenticity of the traditional Collinwood house (both Seaview Terrace and Lyndhurst) for late 1700s Maine, of course, but hadn't looked into it beyond that.  I've also wondered if the Spratt House (?) - Old House - might not be somewhat closer a possibility for the time period.

I always thought that exteriour shot of the Old House always looked like something from the deep South, rather than New England. 

I happened upon pictures of the Hywet House while looking up some architectural info for Labyrinth of Souls. Talk about the perfect design for Collinwood.... wow. I think you're quite right, MB, about it combining elements similar to both Seaview and Lyndhurst to excellent effect. I don't suppose they'll be sending crews to Ohio, alas...

There's a superb view here that might be reminiscent of the Collinwood pic above...

http://ianadamsphotography.bizland.com/store/media/architecture_wsgashol.jpg

--Mark

I don't suppose they'll be sending crews to Ohio, alas...

I would hope for their sake that they've already chosen a location (or locations, as sometimes shows will use one site for a house's exteriors and another for its interiors). True, it's looking more and more like they'll never meet that starting date of March 22nd (well, unless additional casting has been completed and it just hasn't been reported yet), but one would hope they'd be ready just in case. 

There's a superb view here that might be reminiscent of the Collinwood pic above...

Yes. I almost posted a link to that photo too, but I figured I'd posted enough links and photos for one day.    I also came across one that shows one of the wings that isn't seen in the pictures I did post -  and which also shows a Christmas wreath hanging on the side of the building. Talk about a site we're never likely to see no matter what house actually ends up playing Collinwood on the WB DS! 

I also tortured myself (tortured because Stan Hywet Hall isn't likely to ever be Collinwood  ) by visiting the Official Web site.

MB, thanks for all this information! Extremely interesting stuff. The pictures make things a lot clearer for me (what I know about late 18th century architecture you could put in a thimble).

     I love MB's idea of an ancient house being re-built.  The old houses I have seen here in Maine are simple colonials with clapboards and shutters(very no frills in keeping with its puritan roots)  Architecture in Maine didn't get interesting until the Victorian era. 

So some fantasy and dreaming will be necessary, if there really were no houses like Collinwood dating from that era in Maine.  At least if it's a real looking house in a realistic setting that could at least pass for Maine, we can probably then be happy.  In other words, no miniatures with tiny fake shrubbery and fake lightning showing up the miniature's artificialness in the opening credits!  No palm trees in the background or even less obvious evidences of California (as some scenes in the 1991 series).

I suppose that's asking for a lot if the show must be filmed in California.  Canada has been such a popular location for films in the past few years, and filming somewhere there would no doubt look much more like the Maine woods ... but filming there would be unlikely.  I watched "Dolores Claiburne" (sp) again recently and the location filming (in Nova Scotia, I think) was beautiful. Would be curious how similar that was to Maine.  Was surprised watching the new version of "Dangerous Liaisons" this week at some of the scenery that was supposed to be the south of France -- it was gorgeous, but it didn't look like France to me (not that I've seen all of France).  Turns out much of it was filmed in Scotland, as well as Montreal!

TBH, filming in California is much less of a setback than it was in 1991.  With computer technology light years ahead now, it'd be very easy to grade sunlight away to make things look moodier, paint out any pesky palm trees and add overcast skies.

Nowadays, the only limit to a show's visuals in that respect is its designer's imagination

I've always wanted to ask-- Have palm trees really been spotted in the '91 series?  I've watched it 3 times and never noticed any, but then again palm trees don't stand out for me since I, you know, see them all the time. 

It's not just you, Midnite. I've watched the '91 series 4 times and I've never spotted a palm tree either. But then, I'm too involved with and get lost in the actors' performances, the story, Cobert's wonderful score, and the general production values to notice much of anything else. 

I don't deny they might be there (and if they are, I'm sure someone will be only too happy to tell us where and when  ) - but at the same time, I have no inclination to look for them...