FAVE Magazine

Perhaps you had a vision of one of the future scenes from the WB's "Dark Shadows". 

That's not just frightening - it's breathtakingly petrifying! 

I took that to mean in terms of friendship, hence the human dimension which there is nothing wrong with.  I can tell you that in latter years when being presented with a fanzine depicting Julia and Barnabas in an embrace Messr Frid said in total puzzlement: "What is that?? They were never together."

Well to be contrary . . cuz it's such fun . .the quote would seem to suggest otherwise. .they specifically ask for 'love interest'.  ..now we all know reporters can twist and turn but i also know that i forget what motivations i had a few months ago versus what i brought to a character some 20 odd years ago. . . I dunno. . . maybe other things have colored the memory of what was originally intended or done at this time of the show/movie?  Let Juliafiles have their moment, come on.. .

Barn strangled Julia in the movie because he thought she had betrayed him, and frankly rightfully so.  She did.

Exactly.

Point being?  Yes she betrayed him but it's not like she was the villan or something.  He led her on. .He was evil and got staked. 

He led her on.

How did he lead her on? As edited and released, Julia interpreted Barn's actions as romantic, but he never intentionally misled her. In fact, he never persued anyone romantically except for Maggie. Julia believed what she wanted to believe.

However, even if Barn had led Julia on, that would hardly have been a valid excuse to knowingly overdose him. As if anything would have actually been a valid excuse to do THAT! 

but it's not like she was the villan or something.

Do the defense attorneys in your area know you're possibly available for jury duty? 

Oh I have to disagree with you there. I don't think Barn ever led Julia on.  If there was ever a conversation about their setting off on a life together while he was secretly seeing Maggie, then he would have been leading her on. However, IIRC, nothing like that ever happened.  The movie version did nothing nice for either Julia or Barnabas in terms of character.  The movie did make Julia look pretty bad right next to Barnabas.

The movie set up Julia's betrayal of Barnabas quite early.  Julia was shown being unhappy or disappointed that while Barnabas was thanking her up and down for all of her help, he was planning on giving Josette's music box to Maggie whom he stated meant a great deal to him.  Obviously at that point, who stood where was made pretty clear from Barnabas' standpoint.  It certainly sucks for Julia that he would feel that way, but he did not ever hide the fact he was interested in Maggie and wanted to "woo" her at every opportunity.   The gift of the music box was a romantic gesture.

Julia watched Barn and Maggie stroll the grounds in the daylight, an achievement made possible by Julia.  The look on her face watching them was not one of bliss.  She was not a happy camper and later in some conversation Julia let it be obvious how she felt and Barnabas said he had "no idea" that's how she felt about him or words to that effect. (If I am misremembering, please tell me).  Julia was angry and hurt and since Barnabas was only able to court Maggie like a normal man only for Julia, she sought to take it away from him.  Was her anger understandable? I think it was.  But Barnabas did not treat her as a potential love interest otherwise he would have given her the music box while going on and on about all that Julia had made possible for him in this new life.  So, Julia's response was to turn him into back into what would be his natural age (kiss that, Maggie!) which was also a death sentence.  She tried to beat it out of town but got busted by Barn. The implication being she would cure him but only if he would be hers in the process. Otherwise, all bets off.

Like I said, the depiction of Julia in the movie was far from flattering and different from the series. The series Julia would not have done that to Barnabas, IMO.

Nancy

Point being?  Yes she betrayed him but it's not like she was the villan or something.  He led her on. .He was evil and got staked.

I think it's all a matter of one's frame of reference in interpretation.  If asked what "love interests" there are in a story and between what characters, it is still an honest answer to say Barnabas and Julia because she loved him. That's a love interest. Barnabas finds out she feels that way about him, but doesn't return it, so the situation with a friend who feels more is a love interest story whether or not it ever progresses beyond friendship.  It stands as a constant conflict in that relationship even if never openly discussed.  It becomes a situation of unrequited love as long as the two remain together as friends.

Frid has said many times publicly at conventions, in print and media interviews that it was the fans who did "most of the acting" where the series was concerned.  In his oft stated opinion, fans read into the motivations of the characters and projected themselves into the story in lots of ways.  His reasoning was that he simply didn't have the time to create more subtext beyond that in the basic script.  The decision to make Barnabas a more sympathetic character was a decision made before he first appeared on the camera.  If Frid barely had time to learn his lines (and since that is endlessly commented on, most people know this was the case)and get the basic emotional values down, it stands to reason he had little time to devote to creating motivations beyond what was called for in the script either on the set of the series or for the movie.  There would not be any reason for him to do so.  He already had a long lost love to focus on and his obsession on being reunited by some means with her.  Since that was his goal and how the series was written, there would not be much reason for Frid to play otherwise.  However, there would be plenty of reason for the Hall character to come up with more of an investment in Barnabas than simply screwing around with his chemistry.

But being contrary is fun, Julia99. You know how much I do appreciate that in other people, including you.

Nancy

[Well to be contrary . . cuz it's such fun . .the quote would seem to suggest otherwise. .they specifically ask for 'love interest'.  ..now we all know reporters can twist and turn but i also know that i forget what motivations i had a few months ago versus what i brought to a character some 20 odd years ago. . . I dunno. . . maybe other things have colored the memory of what was originally intended or done at this time of the show/movie?  Let Juliafiles have their moment, come on.. .

now we all know reporters can twist and turn but i also know that i forget what motivations i had a few months ago versus what i brought to a character some 20 odd years ago. . . I dunno. . . maybe other things have colored the memory of what was originally intended or done at this time of the show/movie?  Let Juliafiles have their moment, come on.. .

That's all entirely possible. Maybe JF's way of working was different back thenn than it was in the past twenty years, I dunno either, but in my own experience, he tends to prefer sticking to the values in the script unless there is some reason to have to invent material.  Grayson Hall was smart to come up with the idea that her character would be attracted to the vampire and fall in love. Otherwise, the whole back and forth between Julia and Barnabas would probably have been deadly dull without that undercurrent.  It gave Julia (formerly Julian) more of a stake (no pun intended) in the goings-on and she was as critical a part of the initial success of the series as the character of Barnabas for this reason, IMO.

Nancy

However, even if Barn had led Julia on, that would hardly have been a valid excuse to knowingly overdose him. As if anything would have actually been a valid excuse to do THAT! 

Uhh the fact that he was a blood sucking, murdering vampire somehow makes him more sympathetic?? He wasn't so reluctant in the movie. . Come on .. .we've been watching this show too long. . . 

Wow Nancy ..that was a tome!  You know we are both right here. . . Julia in the movie is not a nice lady . .. and Barn is not a nice guy .. . I actually think the scene where Barn learns of Julia's feelings was very well done by both of them. . .he sincerely felt bad so her jump to poison him was well pretty vindictive.  And Grayson was smart to use a private internal motivation so well the writers took off with it. . .but i really do sense that the last few months of the show, there was  definite movement towards Barn being more attached and caring/careful about Julia.  .whether it's the actors or the writers moving someplace. . . it's all up for speculation. . .I was just glad, as i said, that Juliafiles had a quote from Frid discussing the Barnabas/Julia relationship, albeit short --

Now happy turkey day! 

Uhh the fact that he was a blood sucking, murdering vampire somehow makes him more sympathetic?? He wasn't so reluctant in the movie.

I didn't imply that Barn was sympathetic or reluctant in hoDS. But by that same token neither is Julia. Julia didn't overdose Barnabas to save humanity from a vicious vampire - primarily, she overdosed him because she was jealous of his relationship with Maggie and she wanted revenge because of what she perceived to be a betrayal of her feelings for him, completely ignoring the fact that Barn had never professed anything but gratitude towards her. As I said earlier, as edited and released, anything more to their hoDS relationship was purely in Julia's own mind. Indeed, it's made perfectly clear that Barn didn't even have the first clue about how deeply Julia felt towards him. By overdosing Barn, Julia wasn't exactly acting from a loftiness of purpose and heroism - her motivation was far more cold-blooded, sinister, selfish, and hardly what most would consider to be admirable in any way, shape, or form.

One of the reasons I generally dislike hoDS as much as I do is that so many of the chararcters are just so very different from their TV series counterparts.  :-   Much of hoDS' plot and characterization may have been DC's original vision of what he would have liked to have seen on the series, but I for one am extremely grateful that an almost completely different concept actually won out...

I didn't imply that Barn was sympathetic or reluctant in hoDS. But by that same token neither is Julia. Julia didn't overdose Barnabas to save humanity from a vicious vampire - primarily, she overdosed him because she was jealous of his relationship with Maggie

Of course, by the time the overdose happened, Barn wasn't a vampire anymore so he wasn't posing that kind of danger to anyone.  I wouldn't think Julia would have killed him at that point but for any other reason of feeling betrayed.  She didn't kill him to prevent Carolyn's being bitten, and she didn't try killing him after he killed Carolyn either.  Julia still lived in the Collins house knowing who killed Carolyn so there wasn't much compunction on her part to save anyone from the vampire.

I don't think the TV series Julia would have protected Barnabas to the point she did in the movie.  I agree with MB's reasons for not liking the HODS movie too much.

Nancy

The problem I have with the movie hods is character development, there isn't any.  It's a problem that the writers of the movie probably faced when writing it.  It would have been a daunting task of putting the complexities of these characters from the show into a 2 hour movie.  In my opinion they didn't succeed.  It seemed like a rushed rehash of what had already happened on the television show.

To a lesser degree, as I stated in an earlier post, the writers of the new series (if it gets off the ground) will also have a difficult time with character development because the show will unfold weekly instead of daily.

Murph

The problem I have with the movie hods is character development, there isn't any.  It's a problem that the writers of the movie probably faced when writing it.  It would have been a daunting task of putting the complexities of these characters from the show into a 2 hour movie.

Well, granted there was nowhere near the level of character development that the luxury of soap plotting allowed, but the script does actually contain several scenes or snippets of scenes that would have helped to flesh out the characters (not to mention simply explain their relationships to each other). But the sad fact is that DC not only chose not to include them in the final edit of the film - many of them weren't even shot!

Another thing is that DC loved the '60s Hammer vampire films, and he'd pretty much decided to pattern hoDS after them. I love the huge level of blood and gore (not to mention raw sexuality) of the Hammer films too - but they're about as much removed from the world of DS as the Annette Funicello/Frankie Avalon beach movies were!    (And the really sad thing is that those beach movies probably contain MORE character development than hoDS does!  )

To a lesser degree, as I stated in an earlier post, the writers of the new series (if it gets off the ground) will also have a difficult time with character development because the show will unfold weekly instead of daily.

Fans can say what they will about it, but I honestly think the '91 series did pretty well when it came to character development. Certainly they packed in about as much as the dizzying pacing of network nighttime TV seems to allow for these days...

I've read brilliant 600 pages novels, and 10-line poetry that made me weep.  I've watched multi-houred mini-series that enthralled me, and half-hour sit-com episodes that left me gasping for breath.

Neither length nor brevity need be an enemy to character development....if it's done right.

I agree with your above post Raineypark because I have experienced the same.

I believe most of us who love the original series will have a difficult time to not judge the new series and especially it's character development because it will not be able to flesh out the characters like the original was able to because it will be shown weekly instead of daily.  Because of this I hope they focus on the next generation with new characters, and some original ones and not rehash old plot lies.

Murph