DVDs and a New DS

Originally posted by Waylon Smithers on the Dark Shadows: General Discussion Forum on January 24, 2002 at 21:44:23:

The idea of a new DS is intriguing, although I do hope that DC and Company aren't planning yet another retelling of Barnabas' arrival at Collinwood. I think a "Next Generation"-type series would be better, with new characters and stories, depicting life in Collinwood 31 years after the original series ended. This approach would also allow original DS cast members to reprise their roles, which would definitely be a treat.

In any event, I'm glad that the Fox Network is involved, because they tend to be more supportive of edgy and unusual programming than do the other networks. Actually, I always thought that an ideal way of introducing a new DS would be as an "X Files" spin-off, with Scully and Mulder arriving in Collinsport to investigate the unusually high rate of strange occurrences in the town.

As for the DVD announcement, I am VERY pleased. The DVD format is ideal for a show with as many episodes as DS, and with 10 episodes per disc, there will be fewer DVDs to purchase. Besides, I don't know about anyone else, but my MPI tapes have not held up well. Does anyone know what causes the picture to bend at the top?

I'm also glad that MPI is releasing unedited episodes instead of the "trimmed" versions used for the initial VHS releases. I just hope they the picture quality is better than that of the first DS DVD!

Regards,

John

Posted by joe integlia on January 25, 2002 at 02:24:18:
In Reply to: DVDs and a New DS posted by Waylon Smithers on January 24, 2002 at 21:44:23:

As for the DVD announcement, I am VERY pleased. The DVD format is ideal for a show with as many episodes as DS, and with 10 episodes per disc, there will be fewer DVDs to purchase. Besides, I don't know about anyone else, but my MPI tapes have not held up well. Does anyone know what causes the picture to bend at the top?

the bending at the top of the screen is called FLAGGING. its caused by the tape edge curling with age. r u viewing the tape on a newer tv? older tvs seem to show this problem more than newer tvs. i still cant play the nancy barrett segment of the s dvd even after getting a free newr model dvd player from zenith. so i wont purchase the dvds if they wont play. i too think the new ds should be a next generation show and not another remake. it worked for star trek.

Posted by Miss Winthrop on January 25, 2002 at 03:41:39:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by joe integlia on January 25, 2002 at 02:24:18:

I too had a problem viewing the Nancy Barrett section on the DVD player I had at the time. I just won a DVD/CD player at our office Xmas party and was able to play the segment on the new machine which, incidently was manufactured in Nov. 2001.

If you recall Twin Peaks had a similar storyline of an FBI agent who goes to a small town in Minnesota(?) to investigate a murder but ends up involved in the supernatural.

I like the idea of a 3rd generation of Collinsport inhabitants and bring back some of the cast of the original series and the 1991 remake.

I know that they can't retell the Barnabas arrival story in Collinsport again but I think a decendent of his wouldn't be out of line.

The idea of a new DS is intriguing, although I do hope that DC and Company aren't planning yet another retelling of Barnabas' arrival at Collinwood. I think a "Next Generation"-type series would be better, with new characters and stories, depicting life in Collinwood 31 years after the original series ended. This approach would also allow original DS cast members to reprise their roles, which would definitely be a treat.

If Fox does stay with it, I'm sure the show will be very steamy but I do hope that there will be good roles and stories for people over 30 yrs. old. and it won't be entirely devoted to the youth culture.

Posted by Donna on January 25, 2002 at 07:01:19:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Miss Winthrop on January 25, 2002 at 03:41:39:

I too think the new ds should be a next generation show and not another remake. it worked for star trek.

I am in agreement, I think DC productions should make a "New Generations" come back of DS. Also the idea of brining back some of the original actors from 31 years ago is a great idea.

Having the Fox network involved is a good idea too. They seem to stretch out the type of shows they have on there. If any of them can make DS a come back show...they can.

Only on thing.....don't make it a continuation or bring back Barnabas again. I mean, flash backs blended in with current storylines ok. We need some fresh blood out there, and not Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I love the X-Files though and I am starting to like the new Star Trek "Enterprise" series too.

Take Care,
Donna

Posted by Julian on January 25, 2002 at 07:54:07:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Donna on January 25, 2002 at 07:01:19:

I think the idea of DS thirty years on instead of retelling the story is a GREAT idea as is bringing back some of the previous characters. I imagine David is now master of Collinwod with children of his own. What would Quentin be up to, and I imagine if Amy has any children, a son might be getting close to werewolf age.

Posted by waylon smithers on January 25, 2002 at 18:31:30:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by joe integlia on January 25, 2002 at 02:24:18:

Joe,

Thanks for the info on flagging. Oddly enough, I have found that the problem is more pronounced on newer equipment than on old. Still, it is quite frustrating.

I've never had a problem with the Nancy Barrett segment of the DVD, but it seems that many people who post to this forum have had that problem. Let's hope that MPI has improved the quality of their DVDs.

Regards,

John

Posted by Richard Holt on January 25, 2002 at 22:21:53:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Julian on January 25, 2002 at 07:54:07:

I'm glad to hear that DS will soon be offered on DVD. I like the quality of the picture that DVD offers and I have the one DVD that MPI put out last year. I have same compilations (except the Nancy Barret part) on VHS and I can tell a world of difference in the picture quality of the DVD versions. I'm also glad to hear that they will have 10 episodes per disk. That means there will only be 120+ to collect the whole series on DVD instead of 250+ videos.

As to a new series...I will withhold comment until more details are released. I watched the 1991 version and liked it, but was not over thrilled by it as I was by the original, mostly due to some of the changes made in style and feel of the show. I wlll say that I would not want to see a new version done in the style of a Buffy the Vampire or Charmed type demon hunting show. While I have nothing against these shows and watch Charmed myself, that is not what DS was or should ever become. I will also say people's ideas of a next generation show is something that I thought should have been attempted back in 1991 and an idea an independent producer came up with in the mid 1980's but Dan Curtis and he could not agree on terms.

Posted by Brian on January 26, 2002 at 18:53:49:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by joe integlia on January 25, 2002 at 02:24:18:

"i still cant play the nancy barrett segment of the s dvd even after getting a free newr model dvd player from zenith."

I couldn't play the Nancy Barrett segment on the Samsung player I bought about this time last year, but it (and other "defective" DVDs) plays perfectly on the newer model Samsung M301 that I bought last June.

Brian

Posted by Brian on January 26, 2002 at 19:04:44:
In Reply to: DVDs and a New DS posted by Waylon Smithers on January 24, 2002 at 21:44:23:

Please don't let DC remake the Barnabas and Josette story yet again. After 1967, HODS and 1991, I think we've "been there-done that" to the nth degree. Mr Curtis--please show some originality and creativity (and bring back some of our favorite actors from BOTH TV versions of the shows.

Posted by Luciaphil on January 27, 2002 at 08:50:43:
In Reply to: DVDs and a New DS posted by Waylon Smithers on January 24, 2002 at 21:44:23:

(sigh)

Well, I'm not too hopeful. If DC and co. can get past the girl on the train and the rehash of the Josette/Barnabas story, I will be the first one in line to applaud, but seeing as how it seems to be something that Curtis can't get past, I doubt that I have to worry about getting sore from clapping.

He needs to do a next generation type thing. It's the only thing that's going to work--unless he went completely period, which I doubt is in the plans.

Fox is probably a good network to go with. IIRC, part of what killed the 1991 series was NBC pushing it all over the schedule.

And going to fanfic for ideas won't be happening unless hell freezes over. Too many legal complications.

Luciaphil

Posted by Julia99 on January 27, 2002 at 11:49:43:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Luciaphil on January 27, 2002 at 08:50:43:

Here, here.. that's my vote. . .he could have a cameo from Frid and maybe with today's computer animation, etc. they could tweek a "julia hoffman" appearance, perhaps as Barn talks to her on the telephone somewhere. . .oh the fantasing MUST stop!

J99

Posted by Darren Gross on January 27, 2002 at 15:52:39:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Brian on January 26, 2002 at 18:53:49:

There's probably not a chance in hell that Frid would ever appear on a new DS. He seems to have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever and he mentioned in an interview back in 91 that he wouldn't do a cameo or appear in the new show unless they paid him $2 Million dollars.

I think we can give up on that happening.

Posted by Fergie on January 30, 2002 at 07:17:42:
In Reply to: Re: DVDs and a New DS posted by Julia99 on January 27, 2002 at 11:49:43:

One of the earmarks of a "classic" is that it's worth retelling. All great artists do have their obsessions, so it's no wonder that Dan Curtis' obsession is to retell the most successful storyline he's had until he gets it "right."

That said, though, I have to agree!
A completely new storyline would be great, so long as it isn't like "Passions" or Buffy Visits Collinsport.

One of DC's problems is that the ingredients in his stews are a certain portion of retelling and a certain portion of tangents from the original. Hey, he ripped off countless classics for a long time before he started ripping off his OWN DS writers (what do you think parallel time really was? or HODS or NODS?). Inventive retelling of Twilight Zone? No, it was writer's block.
I don't really think that he can do anything completely original, and certainly not if he's writing it himself. I wonder if, after all these remakes where he's writing the pilots himself, if he's convinced himself that he wrote the original scripts too?


I don't really think another retelling of Barnabas/Vicky&Maggie & 1795 would be bad for another MINIseries, or even the beginning of a new series, if it were a tightly constructed storyline JUST about that one plot and not so obviously geared (or pleading) for an extenuation into a longer series like the NBC version was.
But it would have to be very complelling and well made. You don't create a good series by stirring up a boiling soup of troubles at the very beginning. That is just bewildering to an audience. You make a really good storyline with a strong focus that is compelling. If it is pregnant with possibilities, it's a subtle pregnancy that shouldn't show yet.
Then you go off on your wild new storylines.
I would bet that DC is going to start off with the tried and true, hoping to branch off from that.

Take a look at "Dynasty," for example. Find somebody with a tape of that old '80s series and watch the first couple of episodes. Then watch some episodes from the final seasons.
DC thinks a nighttime series should start like the last season of Dynasty rather than the first season. But you can't have a good series full of chaos unless it follows that first season or two spent establishing characters and evoking audience caring. (And I'm not saying you have to be boring or actionless; just have more compelling characterizations and situations to set the stage).

Part of DC's problem is that his idea has always been to rip off a classic and then add a few "twists" and that's all. It was never the twists or the changed endings that made any of his shows, films or TV movies successful, though. He obviously never knew what made anything he did successful or not and I doubt he's spent anytime analyzing it either. We all watch these old episodes again and again, so it should be obvious that we don't watch because we don't know what's coming.

A mini series about Barnabas could be very, very good if it followed the old series nearly verbatim, cutting out the deadwood and the mistakes. Some of the scripts by Ron Sproat and Malcom Marmorstein are among the best monologues ever written for TV. Period. And I doubt any actor will ever deliver them the way Frid did.
The cat-and-mouse between Julia & Barnabas as she investigates him only lasted a few days, yet little old ladies still talk fondly about it four decades later as though that was the best storyline ever. Indeed, it is among the best original part of the show and that in itself really is enough for a TV pilot or for the major part of a motion picture. But what does DC do with it? He cuts it down to like 2 seconds in HODS and only a few seconds more in the NBC version. DC doesn't realize that the "getting there" is half the fun; he just wants to rush it & get there & get it overwith. Poor Mrs. Curtis.

It would be extremely tough to cast something that tries to copy the original, and not a good idea to fill it up with California-looking actors or palm trees either.

There simply is not another Jonathan Frid, such a vastly underrated actor.
Ben Cross couldn't come close.
I would say the same for Grayson Hall and her chemestry with Frid. Cross and Steele were good but the chemestry did not quite work as well. Steele has a different sort of class than Grayson, too, and lacks her NY shrewishness.

Of course no one has Jonathan Frid's voice. It truly is or was a wonderful voice. And I don't think anyone else ever will be found who could come close to his speeches.
Because of those casting problems with the main characters, it would be much easier surely to go with an entirely new story.

Speaking of animation, I've often thought that an animated cartoon series of DS would be the best way to remake the old series, using recordings/soundtracks of the original series but animating it in 30-minute daily installments for kids or adults or both. Pretty much verbatim, cutting out what didn't work, correcting the flubs and generally just "doing it right this time." Which is what Dan's obsessed with anyway.
If you've ever LISTENED to tapes of the show while not distracted by watching it, you know that the sound is really much more compelling than the visual.
In fact, the visual is rather distracting.
I imagine a computer-animated version of the old version, darker and creepier, and with Dr. Woodard completely replaced with anybody -- Homer Simpson or Bugs Bunny or anybody else would be better.
And Betsy Durkin or that 3rd Vicky whatshername and anybody else offensive.

How well I remember the '60s when people would stop what they were doing and watch DS because it was the most unusual thing available anywhere, especially on TV and especially during the day.
When it went from B&W to color, it lost a certain creepiness and instead went from B&W to BEAUTIFUL. People tuned in for the clothes & hairstyles and the sets which were unlike any other on TV, even better than "Peyton Place" most said (which was the "Dynasty"-type thing of those days). Even Jackie Kennedy was quoted discussing the authenticity of the sets and the classiness of the virgins (of course, she knew Alexandra von Moltke, so she probably got hooked when tuning in to see her).

It's hard for most younger people to remember those days when there were only 3 major networks, and the entire country's perceptions could pretty easily be focused on one of the three channels.
(And DS was really much more influential than most people today realize!) How many times have I run across some young person named Quentin or Angelique -- I even met a Barnabas once, believe it or not -- and I knew before I asked who they were named for. Yet when you look in those mass-produced "Names for Children" type books written by the so-called experts, they say things like "Barnabas: A name for boys revived in America in the 1970s by a popular TV show Barnaby Cobb starring Buddy Ebson.") I'm not kidding. It really says that.

Well, I'm rambling too much. Sorry.

Posted by RingoCollins on January 30, 2002 at 10:07:38:
In Reply to: An Animated D.S. & random thoughts posted by Fergie on January 30, 2002 at 07:17:42:

:I think you nailed it!
: >Here, here.. that's my vote. . .he could have a cameo from Frid and maybe with today's computer animation, etc. they could tweek a "julia hoffman" appearance, perhaps as Barn talks to her on the telephone somewhere. . < >>GREAT idea


: That said, though, I have to agree!
: A completely new storyline would be great, so long as it isn't like "Passions" or Buffy Visits Collinsport. >>I think people are less likely to want to 'think' anymore or probably not capable of it!!

a subtle pregnancy >>wonderful phrase
.

: Take a look at "Dynasty," for example >> or Dallas, but Dallas stayed a couple of seasons too long. but with both it was much more the characters, and the relationships moreso than the storyline

: Part of DC's problem is that his idea has always been to rip off a classic and then add a few "twists" and that's all. >> did ya see jeopardy last night? a question about the Lottery, and some other DS left field reference i forgot now.

We all watch these old episodes again and again, so it should be obvious that we don't watch because we don't know what's coming. >> they seem to get better the more you see'em!!

Some of the scripts by Ron Sproat and Malcom Marmorstein are among the best monologues ever written for TV. Period. And I doubt any actor will ever deliver them the way Frid did. >>>double dittos
he just wants to rush it & get there & get it overwith. Poor Mrs. Curtis. >> Har!


an animated cartoon series of DS would be the best way to remake the old series, using recordings/soundtracks of the original series but animating it in 30-minute daily installments for kids or adults or both >> another good idea.
: If you've ever LISTENED to tapes of the show while not distracted by watching it, you know that the sound is really much more compelling than the visual. >> used to do that when it ran the first time, as my aunt would 'tape' the ones i knew i had to miss for something like band practice - then i would bring the tape to school and we gathered in a practice room [just me and about 5 or 6 HS girls - a secondary strategy!!] and replayed the show!!
: In fact, the visual is rather distracting.

Homer Simpson or Bugs Bunny or anybody else would be better. >> How 'out the kid from Family Guy as Davy!

: It's hard for most younger people to remember those days when there were only 3 major networks, and the entire country's perceptions could pretty easily be focused on one of the three channels. >>> different days for sure. probably tougher to be a kid now, I think. and a parent, too, i can only imagine!


Well, I'm rambling too much. Sorry. >> excellent discussion points, i think, but as most know, i am pretty crazy. keep the rambling coming, rose.

so glad i found the board and ya'll again.
cheers,
Ringo