Author Topic: What is "good horror"?  (Read 6552 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Philippe Cordier

  • (formerly known as Vlad)
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • Karma: +50/-1037
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2002, 03:07:53 AM »
I'm only getting a chance to read this thread now, and I won't try to formulate an eloquent essay since there are several here already.  I just have a couple of comments, and they're taken almost direct from my post in the Dan Curtis thread from a few days back.

I had a taste for the macabre from a very early age.  I remember my mother taking me to the public library when I was about seven and I told the librarian I wanted a "scary" book.  The book she gave me was "Where the Wild Things Are," which I found very disappointing.  I must have already been watching DS by this time.

Throughout the '70s one of the networks produced a "Movie of the Week" and they delivered a number of chillers.  I can only remember a few of them, but one that comes to mind (which I mentioned in yet another thread!) was "When Michael Calls," about terrifying phone calls a young couple receives from their dead son (as best I remember it).  Then there was the TV movie where a group of people had somehow been gathered in a remote location (possibly a lush island paradise, I'm not sure) and awful things happened as they struggled to remember/understand what they were doing there.  I'm sure these were not graphically horrible things like in today's movies, but I can still feel the sense of dread that built from these character's fears, and in the surprise ending it slowly dawned on them:  they were dead.  A plane crash here, a car accident there ... they began to remember.

Another made-for-TV movie was about a family who drove into a small New England town, Melas, where awful things happened.  I think there was a young blonde woman who was practicing witchcraft and working mischief and evil on the family, and driving a wedge between the husband and wife.  At the end, the family narrowly escaped from the town's wicked inhabitants.  In the rearview mirror of their car you could see the town's welcome sign as they drove off.  The lettering was reversed in the mirror to show the town's disguised name:
S - A - L - E - M.

Then there was a wonderfully disturbing remake of an old classic, "Death Takes a Holiday" with Melvyn Douglas and the alluring Yvette Mimieux.  The realization builds that an awful thing was happening -- no one was dying, anywhere.  Death had come to earth in the form of a man and fallen in love, taking a leave of absence from his duties ... Somehow this movie had a grandeur and dignity about it ...

There were many such movies, where the horror was conveyed not through special effects or buckets of blood, but through the writing and direction, and the sense of dread these produced.

I remember a number of suspense movies of this period, thrillers rather than horror, such as "You'll Like My Mother," which aired on TV (both this movie and "The Other" are erroneously referred to as having been made for TV by posters on the imdb; neither was made for TV), as well as a number of made-for-TV thrillers that starred such screen legends as Olivia DeHavilland and Shelley Winters.  I guess the time for those movies is long past.

I began reading Edgar Allen Poe's unsurpassed stories when I was still in grade school, and a few years later Frankenstein and Dracula.  Somewhere about this time the last good horror movies were produced (IMO) -  The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, The Other (from the Thomas Tryon novel, which I read before the movie was made).  The directors of these films were well respected, not the hacks that seem to direct so many of today's endless stream of gorefest flicks.  I had already read "The Exorcist" and frankly was disappointed in the movie, not to mention disappointment with the audience which tittered with laughter rather than fainting or throwing up as the newspaper stories were saying.

Far better, I thought, was Rosemary's Baby, which my family watched when it aired on TV, and viewing it again today I find its web of deceit and suspense unsurpassed.

Then "The Omen" came out, and while the subject matter appealed to me, I remember seeing too many gaps in the story and again being mildly disappointed.  All the kids were eager to see the head being lopped off by the sheet of glass, which I thought was a bit much.

I think it was shortly after this that "Carrie" came out.  I heard a lot about it from other kids, but the bucket of blood or whatever didn't appeal to me and I never saw it.  In fact, I never saw another horror movie after that.  Just hearing about them turned me off (and I was only a junior high kid) --  the blood and guts, the slashers.  I've seen parts of those movies on TV from time to time, and while they have jolts and some suspense, can you actually be interested in the characters the way you are with, say, Marion Crane in "Psycho"?

For me, the entire genre seemed to have changed and I never again had an interest in "horror."

It wasn't until I rediscovered DS again in the last few years that a spark of my previous interest has been rekindled, and I've learned about such movies as The Haunting, The Uninvited, The Innocents (thanks to posters on this board and the previous board!).  I was very interested in the Blair Witch Project, which sounded very promising, but somehow I never got to the theater.  And from what I hear, the recent "The Others" also may have some of the qualities that I used to like about horror (though I've heard it has a surprise ending that sounds very similar to one of those made-for-TV movies from the '70s that I mentioned above).

Well, I guess I went on a bit longer than I planned, caught up in reminiscing.

Note to Luciaphil and Raineypark:  When I was at my local B&N last week, I happened to remember the writer you had been talking about -  E. F.  Benson.  Low and behold, I discovered a copy of his Collected Ghost Stories, bought it, and am looking forward to reading some of them.  I also have the LeFanu stories, de la Mare, and several other classics still to read.

Oh, and I hope to read the three chapters from the unpublished DS novel next week once I've finished up another class ...  ;D

-Vlad
"Collinwood is not a healthy place to be." -- Collinsport sheriff, 1995

Offline Mark Rainey

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Karma: +1169/-3545
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • The Realm
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2002, 03:49:36 AM »
Quote
Then there was the TV movie where a group of people had somehow been gathered in a remote location (possibly a lush island paradise, I'm not sure) and awful things happened as they struggled to remember/understand what they were doing there.  I'm sure these were not graphically horrible things like in today's movies, but I can still feel the sense of dread that built from these character's fears, and in the surprise ending it slowly dawned on them:  they were dead.  A plane crash here, a car accident there ... they began to remember.

This was a movie called "Haunts of the Very Rich," from 1972, I believe. I remember it quite well, moreso than many other made-for-TV movies from the same period. I don't think it was a particularly great film, but its atmosphere of growing disbelief and dread was pretty effective. If I remember right, it starred Lloyd Bridges, Cloris Leachman, Ed Asner, and Donna Mills. Haven't seen it since it originally aired, but I'd love to be able to watch it again to find out how it holds up against my memory.

[shadow=red,left,300]--Mark[/shadow]

Offline Raineypark

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2749
  • Karma: +13053/-14422
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2002, 03:50:10 AM »
Quote


Note to Luciaphil and Raineypark:  When I was at my local B&N last week, I happened to remember the writer you had been talking about -  E. F.  Benson.  Low and behold, I discovered a copy of his Collected Ghost Stories, bought it, and am looking forward to reading some of them.


Luciaphil....do you think if you search your Reference Resources hard enough, you might find some sort of connection between E. F. Benson and Dark Shadows?  That way we'd be able to talk about him and his wonderful stories and not be accused of going WAY O.T.!!  ;)

Raineypark
"Do not go gentle into that good night.  Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
Dylan Thomas

Offline Cassandra

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 2239
  • Karma: +152/-322
  • Gender: Female
  • I love DS!
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2002, 12:25:14 PM »
Quote
Hey Cassandra and Gerard
thanks for your explanations of "Freaks'
went to the internet movie base as you suggested Cassandra and just the message board about it gave me the creeps :o Will have to think twice about viewing it!
Thanks
jennifer
saw Psycho II last night on mystery ch it was too bad they felt that had to do it because it just wasn't the same that shower scene in the first Psycho scaried
me for months after! :o


Hi Jenn, glad you checked out the site. I figured you'd be able to get some more views on the movie there.

I hate when they try to do a re-make of a classic movie. Somehow, it just doesn't seem to work. That shower scene was a classic thriller, and the more they try to do it over, the worse it becomes. Sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.  :)
"Calamity Jane"

Offline scott

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +2/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2002, 03:04:30 PM »
Just wanted to thank all of you for this great thread. I only discovered it this morning. Wow--you all know your stuff. I have nothing to contribute other than to say you've touched on films and themes near and dear to me and you've all said it better than I could.

Oh, one final film you might enjoy: Dementia. In the vein of Carnival of Souls and NoLD, it's an almost silent, B&W nightmare from the 50s--too weird to describe here, but it's out on DVD in a lovingly restored version. Some of the sets will remind you of our favorite show :)

Offline Gerard

  • NEW ASCENDANT
  • ******
  • Posts: 3586
  • Karma: +559/-6674
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2002, 03:28:10 PM »
Quote
Even before DUEL, Spielberg made a little horror film called SOMETHING EVIL (1972), which starred Darren McGavin (just prior to his NIGHT STALKER stint), Sandy Dennis, Ralph Bellamy, and Johnny Whitaker. It was a made-for-TV flick, and was downright terrifying to me as a kid. Watching it now, it still holds up as a very effective film, if not quite as scary as it was when I was 13.

It occasionally runs on the Flix movie channel, uncut. I recommend it highly if you get a chance to watch it.

[shadow=red,left,300]--Mark[/shadow]


There was one scene in particular, Mark, in "Something Evil" that caused me to shiver, and still does.  It was the one where they are viewing a film clip they made of the house, and as they watch it a pair of shimmering eyes appears gazing out through a window.  An extremely creepy moment.

Gerard

Offline Luciaphile

  • ** Collinsport Commentator **
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Karma: +446/-1242
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2002, 09:37:45 PM »
Quote


Luciaphil....do you think if you search your Reference Resources hard enough, you might find some sort of connection between E. F. Benson and Dark Shadows?  That way we'd be able to talk about him and his wonderful stories and not be accused of going WAY O.T.!!  ;)

Raineypark


Rainey, I wish I could.  But I don't know that there is much of a connection other than "The Room at the Tower."

Benson eventually moved to Rye and lived in Lamb House, which is notable for at least two things: it was once the home of Henry James (who wrote among other things "Turn of the Screw" which is a major influence on an upcoming plotline) and Benson used it as the model for Mallards in his Mapp & Lucia series.

Of all the characters on DS, the only ones I can think that might fit into a Mapp & Lucia story would be Roger (who would have to loosen up a lot) and Mrs. Johnson.  These are great stories, but they have little to no plot--it's stuff like who cheated at bridge and who is the first to stun the town of Tilling with a daring new suit of red velvet.  

Benson's "spook stories" are really, really wonderful.  Very atmospheric.  It may not have been intended, but I agree that "The Room at the Tower" does have that sense of dread they were trying for with the dream curse . . .  That's about all I can come up with.

Luciaphil
"Some people ask their god for answers to their spiritual questions. For everything else, there is Google." --rpcxdr-ga

Offline Philippe Cordier

  • (formerly known as Vlad)
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • Karma: +50/-1037
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2002, 02:13:33 AM »
Quote

This was a movie called "Haunts of the Very Rich," from 1972, I believe. I remember it quite well, moreso than many other made-for-TV movies from the same period.


Well, that's one down!  Amazing ...  Thanks!  This certainly had a top-notch cast, so I wish there were a way of seeing it again.

Quote

I'd love to be able to watch it again to find out how it holds up against my memory.


The test of time - that's the clincher.  I would approach some of the movies I mentioned with trepidation if I could see them again today because I've matured a lot since I was 10. ;D On the other hand, I've found my 10-year-old judgment to have been pretty reliable (maybe it hasn't appreciably changed  ;)) when I've been fortunate enough to view some of these movies more recently:  Rosemary's Baby (I don't think anyone doubts that one holds up), The Other, You'll Like My Mother...  (Not to mention such non-horror movies, like "Dead Ringer," which was every bit as good as I remembered it and now has a place in my personal Top 10 list, alongside "Rebecca" ...)

Interestingly, I like The Exorcist much better today than I did when it first came out. I find it much more frightening as an adult, though I still think the book was better.  I remember reading the book when I was home alone one night back in the early '70s.  I was engrossed in the book when I distinctly heard someone cough.  I kept reading, thinking it was my dad.  Then I remembered I was the only one in the house.  Guess that's what "good" horror will do for you. [eek]
"Collinwood is not a healthy place to be." -- Collinsport sheriff, 1995

Offline Teresa

  • Full Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
  • Karma: +2307/-523
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2002, 04:17:04 AM »
I rented a movie awhile back called "What's the matter with Helen" (or close to that) Anyway it starred Shelly Winters and Debbie Reynolds. Shelly was Helen and she was a kook. I don't know if I would called it horror but the end had a cheap slasher kind of theme to it. ( If you like bunny rabbits watch out!) :P
Now someone mentioned the screaming skull and I just watched that on Mystery Science Theater last weekend. Not at all what I expected. ::)
** I think this belongs in bad horror. sorry!**
" Some day we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny"

Offline Cassandra

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 2239
  • Karma: +152/-322
  • Gender: Female
  • I love DS!
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2002, 08:44:28 AM »
Quote
Another made-for-TV movie was about a family who drove into a small New England town, Melas, where awful things happened.  I think there was a young blonde woman who was practicing witchcraft and working mischief and evil on the family, and driving a wedge between the husband and wife.  At the end, the family narrowly escaped from the town's wicked inhabitants.  In the rearview mirror of their car you could see the town's welcome sign as they drove off.  The lettering was reversed in the mirror to show the town's disguised name:
S - A - L - E - M.

Vlad, This movie sounds very familar to me. Do you remember if Hope Lange starred in the movie? It sounds like something I saw awhile back.
"Calamity Jane"

Offline Philippe Cordier

  • (formerly known as Vlad)
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • Karma: +50/-1037
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2002, 10:19:27 PM »
Quote

Vlad, This movie sounds very familar to me. Do you remember if Hope Lange starred in the movie? It sounds like something I saw awhile back.


Cassandra, I don't remember if Hope Lange was in the movie I remember or not.  I probably didn't know who she was at that time, so she might have been.  I looked her up in the imdb, and there is one movie from about the right time period (1970) that seems to fit the bill, but I can't be sure.

The made-for-TV movie with Hope Lange from 1970 is called "Crowhaven Farm," and if that isn't the one I'm remembering, this nevertheless sounds of great interest to DS viewers.  Typical viewer comments on the imdb site are "greatest witchcraft movie ever made," "I saw this when I was 10 years old, was scared to death and have never forgotten it,"  etc.  From what people write, this sounds like the basic story:  a young couple moves to a small farming community, and the wife (Lange) begins hearing crying sounds from the woods and has visions of people in clothing from the colonial era.  There is talk of a wedge being driven between the couple, as was the case in the movie I vaguely remember.  At the end of "Crowhaven Farm," Lange's character realizes that a cult of witches is still operating in the town after two centuries.  She realizes that she also lived in the Puritan era and had testified against the townspeople in a witch trial, and they are now seeking revenge.

Although a "twist" at the end is mentioned, no one in the imdb posts mentions if the townspeople are the original inhabitants of Salem.

As an aside, I have found lapses in the imdb listings in the past, especially with respect to actors' TV appearances, so Hope Lange could even have been in another TV movie with a supernatural theme during the same general time period (say, 1968 to 1972).
"Collinwood is not a healthy place to be." -- Collinsport sheriff, 1995

Offline Cassandra

  • Full A ed Newest Fervor Post
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 2239
  • Karma: +152/-322
  • Gender: Female
  • I love DS!
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2002, 11:15:45 PM »
Quote




The made-for-TV movie with Hope Lange from 1970 is called "Crowhaven Farm," and if that isn't the one I'm remembering, this nevertheless sounds of great interest to DS viewers.  Typical viewer comments on the imdb site are "greatest witchcraft movie ever made," "I saw this when I was 10 years old, was scared to death and have never forgotten it,"  etc.  From what people write, this sounds like the basic story:  a young couple moves to a small farming community, and the wife (Lange) begins hearing crying sounds from the woods and has visions of people in clothing from the colonial era.  There is talk of a wedge being driven between the couple, as was the case in the movie I vaguely remember.  At the end of "Crowhaven Farm," Lange's character realizes that a cult of witches is still operating in the town after two centuries.  She realizes that she also lived in the Puritan era and had testified against the townspeople in a witch trial, and they are now seeking revenge.





Vlad,  Yes!  That's the one I saw. "Crowhaven Farm."    As I recall the witch who caused the wedge between the married couple was very young, I think perhaps only a teenager, but nevertheless, very evil. I don't remember alot of the details, just that this young girl came to stay with this couple and it turned out that she, along with the wife had been witches in another lifetime. The wife, who is played by Hope Lange, testified against this young witch and her coven, and they were all put to death. (sounds alittle like Miranda & Judah)  
Also there is a scene in the movie where Hope Lange is driving in a car with her friend, (well, she thinks she's her friend, when in reality, she is also one of the witches) and supposidly, the "friend" is trying to help her get out of that crazy town.  Well, as they're driving by the town sign, which reads Melas,  you can see the actually town name in the rear view mirror, which reads, "Salem."
The ending wasn't your usual good guys win the battle against evil.  For revenge against Hope Lange's testimony against them, the young witch wants nothing other than the good woman's husband and Hope Lange has no choice but to comply with this.

Im not sure if this the movie you're referring to in your post, but I found alot of similarities between the two. Either way, I thought it was a pretty scary movie and was worth seeing.   Thanks Vlad for refreshing my memory! :)
"Calamity Jane"

Offline Gerard

  • NEW ASCENDANT
  • ******
  • Posts: 3586
  • Karma: +559/-6674
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2002, 11:35:41 PM »
I remember "Crowhaven Farm", but if my memory serves me correct (which it often doesn't), I think the location of the town was out west, possibly in California, not in New England.  It's actual name was San Melas; it was where the descendents of the Salem witches eventually settled (hence "Melas" being "Salem" when seen in the rear-view mirror).

Gerard

Offline Philippe Cordier

  • (formerly known as Vlad)
  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • Karma: +50/-1037
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is "good horror"?
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2002, 01:48:43 AM »
Ooooooooooooooooo!

Thanks, you two!  That had to be it!
;D
"Collinwood is not a healthy place to be." -- Collinsport sheriff, 1995