Questions about Jeb Hawkes and Peter Bradford

[Garth Blackwood]

***Possible spoilers below***

I was recently watching a later Leviathan episode, set at a time shortly after Jeb has destroyed the box and alter and turned on the Leviathans. He's being tormented by an unseen force which he thinks is Paul Stoddard's ghost, and turns out to be Peter Bradford's ghost. In this scene they talk about how, in 1797, Jeb killed Vicki by throwing her from Widow's Hill. They also mention that Peter killed him in 1797 by throwing him from the same cliff (one of the only ways Jeb could die?). A few questions--

Was this the first time these events were referred to on the show? They sort of vaguely described the situation, so I thought maybe it was on before.

Why did Peter come back to haunt Jeb after all this time? Didn't he already kill Jeb in 1797? Why did he pop up, out of nowhere,
in 1970 on a mission to kill Jeb at all costs?

A more basic question: if Jeb died in 1797 what was he doing alive in 1970?

I feel like I missed a quick 1797 flashback or something that would explain the answers to all three of these questions, but I've glanced at the episode guide and can't find anything like that ... Any insights here would be great

[Patti Feinberg]

Incongruious,,,,,that's the main delight/dismay of DS.

I don't believe there was any mention prior to these eps about Peter/JebEZ/Victoria.

(IMHO, TPTB wanted to draw in the viewers who spiked the 1795 ratings....)

Patti

[MagnusTrask]

Others here have told me that the ghost would have been Stoddard's (which makes more sense, even to Jeb!), except that Dennis Patrick was unavailable.    That's why it made no sense.   Bradford was shoehorned in for no good reason.    I'll guess that the writers weren't responsible, but instead DC and/or the fact that it was too late to rewrite the plot after D Patrick bailed out.

All this implies that Jeb goes through the accelerated Leviathan growth process every century or two, whenever they want to try taking over the Earth again.    It had seemed to me that "Jeb" was a new being in 1970, since he's so unfamiliar with humans and life as a human, but what the hell.    Apparently they went through all this with the Leviathans in 1796/7, after all the events we saw in 1795/6, and they failed.    Somehow Bradford and VW were involved.

Does this half-explain why the cairn and Merle Oberon (sic) were there at Collinwood in 1795/6?   They'd just failed in that time, and needed to try in a new one?   No, since this is concurrent with Barnabas trying to make Josette a vampire, and it looks as if any Leviathan activity is later.... but maybe not.    The Leviathan thing could have been brewing for awhile in 1795/6 without the onscreen DS characters being aware of it, or affected by it, till later on after Barnabas is chained.

[arashi]

It would actually have been smarter to have the ghost be some other until then unmentioned character out for revenge against the Leviathans in *the current time*.

How cool would that have been? A new character good ghost sidekick on the side of the "good guys"? Replace the Peter Bradford & Vicki exposition lines with something like "Remember me, I'm Tom Jones, that guy you had Bruno kill out in Reno." And there you go, new character AND new possible storyline branches.

[Garth Blackwood]

Magnus-- I thought as much, but thank you for verifying that this had never been mentioned before. I think to make it more reasonable, they could have included a quick (few minutes) flashback to the events they referred to, instead of just giving a VERY vague summary.

Overall, I think this was a blunder by the writers -- it makes no sense -- the Leviathans in the past clearly had some knowledge of the future -- they sent Barnabas back there! Also, I don't like the idea that the same Jeb existed in 1797, because he clearly seemed new to Earth when he arrived in 1970 ... I guess it also ties up some loose ends with Vicki's story, but I would've preferred they never do it rather than in this way.

When Roger Davis as a ghost appeared, the last person I thought it would be was Peter Bradford ... I was thinking to myself "Why is Ned Stuart wearing a noose??" LOL!!

[Garth Blackwood]

It would actually have been smarter to have the ghost be some other until then unmentioned character out for revenge against the Leviathans in *the current time*.

They should have just made it Garth Blackwood!! He seems good at killing semi-mortal beings They could cook up some equally cooky story about how he is linked to Jeb and have him SERVE JUSTICE, lol..

[Mysterious Benefactor]

"Remember me, I'm Tom Jones, that guy you had Bruno kill out in Reno." And there you go, new character AND new possible storyline branches.

Excellent idea, arashi!    That would have been much smarter and a lot more interesting. The only thing that probably would have undercut it would have been DC's insistence that RD play Tom Jones.   

Overall, I think this was a blunder by the writers -- it makes no sense

It was a major blunder! And it certainly made no sense. But the writers were less at fault than DC, who was forcing all sorts of ludicrous plot twists down their throats at that point under the penalty that they had better write them or be fired.

[IluvBarnabas]

There was absolutely NO NEED to have tied Jeb with Peter and Vicki. As it's previously been said it made no sense absolutely.

SPOILER ALERT:

It made Barnabas' first return to 1796 to save Vicki and Peter look like a waste of time, that they were doomed no matter what.



I press the mute button whenever I approach the episode of Peter's ghost appearing to Jeb.
I just want to pretend this unfortunate plot development DC insisted on shoving down our throats never happened.

[MagnusTrask]

However, there were comments early in 1968 about doom in Vicki's "future", including a dream of Roger's where her association with Jeff Clark causes death and/or disaster for her.    And what would DS be without bad things happening to good people?

Because of Jeb/Bradford, I expected Vicki to be burnt at the end of 1795.   But I got a happy ending instead.   So, Jeb/Bradford made the happy end of 1795 happier for me, I guess, except that I knew it couldn't last.

"Remember me, I'm Tom Jones, that guy you had Bruno kill out in Reno." And there you go, new character AND new possible storyline branches.

But... in Mars Attacks, Tom's still alive in a cave at Lake Tahoe at the end, in the 90s.....