A Woman Scorned - The Great Angelique/Barnabas/Josette Affair

[Angelique Wins]

What do you think about Angelique harming Sarah because Barnabas refused her love?
Was she in the right when she turned Barnabas into a vampire in the end?

Well, I just wrote an eloquent response to this and my computer ate it.  When I resurrect my thoughts, I'll be back.

Judy

[Angelique Wins]

What do you think about Angelique harming Sarah because Barnabas refused her love?
Was she in the right when she turned Barnabas into a vampire in the end?

Well, the "Sarah" thing was just downright wicked, not to mention terrible in my opinion.  I think if you have a conscience, if you have empathy for others, then yes, it was horrible.  But that's considering it from our point of view.  If you were free and easy with your powers, if you distanced yourself from us "foolish mortals," and thought that everybody was just another tool to use to get what you wanted-and weren't you sooo clever for doing it-- then it makes sense.

Honestly, Black Arts 101 certainly didn't place much value on "consequence."  If you cast a spell on someone, or curse them, be SURE you can remove the curse as well, because somewhere down the road you just MIGHT realize you've made a BIG mistake.  And speaking of mistakes, Angie made some HUGE ones.  She regretted trying to strangle Barn, and had to hurry to undo her magic and then when she successfully cursed him to be a vampire, she changed her mind once she realized she didn't die.  And then she couldn't undo it.  (Although some 40 years later, she was able to do it so easily "POOF" that it wasn't even exciting enough to give air time to.  Go figure.)  Yes, our Angie was great at actions.  Not great on figuring out what would happen as a result of her actions, but nobody's perfect, lol!

Can you just see it?     "Angelique...about this latest curse you've come up with...Do you see a problem with 'EVERYBODY who LOVES Barnabas dies?'   Let's think about this..."

Judy


P.S.  Well, not QUITE as eloquent as "the post that got away," but it's got a nice beat.  I can dance to it.

[Brandon Collins]

I don't think that anything justifies killing someone, no matter what they've done to you. So, Angelique was definitely in the wrong to make Sarah ill just so that she could manipulate Barnabas into being with her, but when that failed and she saw that Sarah might die, and that Barnabas would be utterly distraugt for a very longtime and therefore even more disinterested in loving her, she decided to remedy the situation.

And when she turned him into a vampire, that was just done out of the spirit of hatred and revenge in the heat of the moment. This same situation has happened a lot throughout history, and probably in many of your lives, when you decide to do something in the heat of the moment, and then after you've thought about it, wish you could fix it and take it back. Angelique cursed herself when she cursed Barnabas, which is why, IMO, her professing her love for him and him for her in 1840, it wasn't too OUT THERE. Beacuse whether or not the writers realized it, they were bringing Barnabas and Angelique's storyline full circle.

[Gothick]

I've always thought one of the most illuminating moments Angelique had in her dealings with Barnabas was when, during a crisis in 1968, she blurted out to him:  "You've never cared what I was feeling or thinking!" I think that was a moment of truth for her.

I really don't care for the end of 1840 at all, particularly given Angelique's actions in her initial entrance in that storyline.  I just find it taxes even my abilities to suspend disbelief with respect to DS.  I also think that it robs the story of a great deal of its tragic punch.  Just my own opinion--I do grok why the more romantically inclined Barn/Ang 'shippers love the idea of it.

cheers, G.

[Brandon Collins]

I don't really love the entire idea of Angelique being in 1840, because it does seem rather unlikely that she would return to check on Barnabas every year, blah blah blah and all that jazz. Not to mention that they just put her there to play the same role that she played in 1897, basically annoying Barnabas and getting in the way of what he was trying to accomplish.

What I DID like about it was the conclusion, when Angelique gets shot, because I think it shows a bit of brilliance on the writers part, if they truly did connect point A to point B and figure out that it would be a good conclusion for their overall storyarc. If they had've returned to 1971 after 1841PT and brought Angelique, it would've shot that all to hell, so I'm kinda glad that DS ended where it did with respect to that point. From a writers point of view, it makes great sense to tie up the Barnabas/Angelique storyline the way they did. Their relationship was about obsession until the end, when they both realized that they were in the wrong and finally got their crap straight.

[loril54]

It would have been strange for Angelliique to come back again.  I remember all those years ago when Barn said those words about Angelique, I said how dumb.   I always said what a waste and what was the show all about.  I slso felt less  for Barnabas, why why why,  was he that dumb. 

How can a man say that he loves someone that distroyed his whole family.  Maybe he had flipped out because he was cured. How could he have hurt Julia.  He could plead temporary insanity, then Julia could treat him.

[Nancy]

And when she turned him into a vampire, that was just done out of the spirit of hatred and revenge in the heat of the moment. This same situation has happened a lot throughout history, and probably in many of your lives, when you decide to do something in the heat of the moment, and then after you've thought about it, wish you could fix it and take it back.

The worst thing I ever did to an about to be ex-boyfriend was put vaseline on the toilet seat.  And, no, I wasn't sorry even later. Immature on my part, yes, but not violent.  Since this was a New York bathroom, there was no possibility of his being able to slide off and fall on the floor and hit his head. No room!

Seriously though, since I can understand Barn's murderous ways and still love the character, Angelique fans can still love their witch even when she makes a child ill.  The love between Barn and Ang was pure lust.  The chemistry between them was amazing.

Nancy

[Sunny_Collins]

There is no excuse for harming a child, no matter how well you rationalize your reasons! Barnabas should have realized that if she was capable of hurting Sarah on a whim, then curing her just as suddenly, that she was selfish and might even turn on him, no matter how much she loved him.

And when she turned him into a vampire, that was just done out of the spirit of hatred and revenge in the heat of the moment. This same situation has happened a lot throughout history, and probably in many of your lives, when you decide to do something in the heat of the moment, and then after you've thought about it, wish you could fix it and take it back.

But this wasn't some petty revenge. Angelique had to actually make him die before he could become a vampire. I don't think killing the man you claim to love would endear him to you.

Spoiler:

As for Barnabas's 1840 confession, IMHO, he couldn't have meant what he said. It's too difficult to believe that he could love a woman who cursed his family, causing all sorts of tragedies, setting off an entire chain of events that would completely transform his very existence, and oh, there's that little matter that she killed him in order for the vampire curse to work.

Seriously though, since I can understand Barn's murderous ways and still love the character, Angelique fans can still love their witch even when she makes a child ill.

Very well said. If we can love Barnabas after all the terrible things he's done, Angelique is no acception for those who like her.

[Josette]

But this wasn't some petty revenge. Angelique had to actually make him die before he could become a vampire. I don't think killing the man you claim to love would endear him to you.

However, at the time she cursed him, she thought she was dying, so there was no need to worry about endearing him.  And, once she survived, she tried to cure him, to keep it from happening.  And, in a moment of extreme emotion, one doesn't normally thing too logically.  She had just been shot and thought she was dying, so she lashed out with the curse.

[Misty]

I think it was Nancy who said that the relationship between Barn and Angelique was pure lust. I have to agree partially with that. Angelique HAD to be more exciting than Josette, who was no doubt raised "properly". I also think that Barn had to repress his infatuation with Angelique for the sake of the family to a point where it became a way of life.

He didn't turn to Angelique when Josette died, however. By this time they were enemies. But I think that repressed feeling was always there no matter what chaos Angelique caused. It just seems to me that Josette was the perfect bride for Barn, socially speaking, but Angelique was the passionate one. Too bad she couldn't settle for the role of mistress!!!! Fat chance! :-
                                                                     Misty
                                                                         

[Brandon Collins]

I agree with what Josette said about Angelique cursing Barnabas, and how she thought that she was dying at the time. If she wasn't going to live, what did she care how he spent the rest of his life?

And again, as for Barnabas' confession, a number of things could've been behind that.

1) He wanted to make Angelique feel better in her last few moments by telling her that he really loved her, even if he didn't really mean it.
2) He was crazy as a result of not having the curse anymore, like someone else said. A fun option.
3) He really meant it.

And it doesn't matter what they had done to each other in the past. People make stupid and illogical decisions all the time. I mean, look at Quentin. He dropped Beth like a bad disease and alll-of-a-sudden decided that he was in love with Amanda. Like THAT should've even happened. So if Quentin can do that, Barnabas can certainly do it to.

Let's face it, stranger things have happened in the real world. I mean, I don't think we can honestly say whether or not Barnabas felt and meant what he said to Angelique in her final moments, but I don't have anything to prove otherwise. I mean, sure she tortured his family through countless time trips and in the present, but who cares? Andrea Yates drowned her children, but her husband forgave her because they claimed that she was mentally ill. Watch Oprah or Montel or any other show like that at any given time and you might catch one of those people who was brutally attacked and left for dead by someone, but they've chosen to forgive them of their sins. So who's to say that Trask shooting Angelique didn't make Barnabas realize that everything she had put him through really meant nothing compared to the love he felt for her?

Not to mention the fact that, rationally, one could blame it all on Barnabas in the first place, since he's the one that began the little tryst with Angelique anyway.

[loril54]

I realize that once KLS left the show no more Josette.  Then there was Roxanne, oh well.  I know we are not talking much about Julia, but can you imagine a Julia /Angelique/ Barnabas now that would have been interesting.

Angelique was using Barnabas to get her means to move up in the world.  She was pissed that Barnabas wasn't going to be her meal ticket.  Even after Sky, who did she go back to Barnabas. She didn't think of dumping Sky for Barnabas when she was happy and had the things that she needed.

Why didn't she turn Sky into a Vampire.  Maybe she couldn't do it.

[adamsgirl]

I can't agree with Loril's assessment whatsoever. Barnabas was no meal ticket to Angelique. Sure, it was convenient that he had position and money, but remember -- Spoiler:

Joshua disinherited Barnabas upon his announcement he would marry Angelique. In fact, even when Joshua tried to pay Angelique off to leave town, quite a substantial amount of money, she turned him down. She did, however, trick Joshua into thinking she would take the money, but she had her reasons for doing that.

As for whether Barnabas meant what he said in 1840, he surely did! It was to Julia he first confessed that after all this time, after all they'd been through, he finally realized he loved Angelique. Don't forget, too, that -- Spoiler:

Angelique actually died before Barnabas told her he loved her. He said it, but she was already dead.

Another point to be made here is, no matter how many times Barnabas tried, he invariably had to turn to Angelique for help with whatever he was doing. Her price, always, was his love -- his return to her. He was loath to do it, but again and again, he'd capitulate. Bottom line for me is, Angelique was always there for him, and he finally realized it. In 1840, Spoiler:

she finally helped Barnabas with absolutely no strings attached. This was irresistible to Barnabas. He could finally see her as the woman she was and not the witch.

[Gothick]

Hi Adamsgirl,

Spoiler:

My interrpetation of that scene where Joshua offered Angelique the cash to get outta town was very different from how you saw it.  I thought she had every intention of getting as far away from C'port once she had taken care of her business in the Eagle Hill Cemetery.

Her arrival in the Secret Room just in time for Barnabas' rising was really classic Angelique.  As dear Nicholas pointed out on more than one occasion, she really could be unbelievably incompetent at getting a simple job done.  Just my two drachmae.

I've been re-watching some of the 1840 shows where the writers sort of play with a Julia/Barnabas/Angelique triangle.  It's kind of too bad that they did this at a time when the plot was lurching literally from pillar to post, so the character moments are quick and sometimes sketchy, and I still can't take Angelique's "reform" very seriously.  But it's all we've got and it's a treat to revisit some of these scenes again.

G.

[Miranda]

I think that Angelique is Barnabas's soulmate, but that he was not able to love her fully until he realized she was capable of selfless acts in 1840.  I think he always cared for Angelique on some level but that he also sincerely loved Josette. I think Barnabas was in a sense afraid of the passionate side of his nature that Angelique brought out in him, and indeed repressed a lot of what he felt for her as he admitted in 1840.  It is indeed a shame that Angelique was taken from Barnabas at just the point in their relationship when most of the baggage between them had been resolved, but who knows, maybe Angelique found a way back to Barnabas in 1971...well, we B & A fans can hope...