Discuss - Ep #0239

[Watching Project]

Robservations - #239

[Lydia]

If the brainwashing of Maggie doesn't work, it's Barnabas's own fault.  When he comes into Josette's room after Sam and Joe leave, he should be all sympathy and understanding: "Oh, my dear, you were frightened, you didn't understand," and so on, and so on, ad nauseam.  Instead he scolded her.  One gets the feeling that back in the days when Barnabas and Josette were alive, she had very good reason to reject him.  Well, we know that in fact that's not what the rejection was about, but it occurred to me today that I'd be interested in seeing or reading alternative versions of the Barnabas/Josette story based on the misleading clues we get from the pre-Barnabas period.  And if I were watching this for first time, in 1967, I'd be wondering: "At what point is Barnabas going to lose his grip entirely?  It's sort of shaky right now.  This could get interesting."

Meanwhile, I see no sign of Willie's crush (or whatever one may wish to call it) on Maggie.  I don't think I ever did, in his pre-Windcliff days.  It makes for good plot-pushers later on, but it's not there now.

I don't drink - at age 51, I have yet to acquire the grown-up taste for alchohol - so I have to ask others who do: when Sam says he can't get drunk no matter how much he drinks, does that make sense?  Is that a known phenomenon when people are under stress?  It sounds great in terms of drama, but I thought intoxication was a physical thing.  But why am I inquiring about reality as it relates to Dark Shadows?

[Alondra]

As Willie serves Barnabas and Maggie, he questions why Barnabas is calling her Josette. Barnabas acts as if Willie is a nit and says, "That's her name." Why isn't Barnabas at least confiding to Willie what his plans are? If Willie is to help him, he needs to know what the plan is. He had every reason to be confused. I was getting the impression that Willie may have thought Barnabas had lost it, why was he calling Maggie by the wrong name? Of course he has no choice but to play along, he knows both his and Maggie's survival depend on it.

I also wonder both now and later when Julia comes, why did neither of them ever ask Barnabas questions about the past? You'd think they'd want to know how he became a vampire. They know he's from the late 1700's but nothing of his life during that time. Sure, if either of them asked, Barnabas would probably tell them to shut up, but I'd at least ask.

It appears that once Barnabas brought Maggie to the Old House and was working on changing her into Josette, he stopped biting her. Maybe he's saving the big bite until the "wedding day."

When Sam and Joe come by to tell Barnabas Sam can't paint anymore and they agree to postpone finishing the portrait, Sam noticed that the dinner table was set for two and assumed he had a guest coming. I don't suppose it would occur to him that Willie also lived there so maybe they were eating together?

I felt sorry for Willie when Maggie began to lose her trancelike state upstairs and he had to put his hand over her mouth. Made me wonder if he'd done such things in his former life for other reasons?? But he hated this. When Barnabas came in, we could see the difference in Willie. He took the blame for the noise Barn had heard, and begs Barnabas not to hurt Maggie. Then Barnabas moved in on Maggie who screamed. We don't know for sure what happened next. He told her she would never leave him. I agree he should have spoken gently and gotten her calmed down and acted courtly again as he had been doing downstairs. Acting like this was only gonna frighten her and turn her further away from him.

Willie's crush has not yet begun, there is a moment in which I believe it begins, which comes later. It definitely happens before [spoiler]Maggie escapes and is sent to Wyndcliff at which time Barn and Willie believe like everyone else that she is dead[/spoiler] The point at which it begins is up for speculation since it's very subtle, he does not show it very intensely for fear of Barnabas.

Alondra

[IluvBarnabas]

I agree Barnabas should have been much more gentler with Maggie, but I wonder if that would have really made any difference in her being more accepting of becoming Josette. I believe, despite the massive brainwashing Barnabas was applying on her, she held enough free will to be able to resist him.

Poor Maggie, so close to her Pop and Joe yet so far....how terrible for her to know she's only a few feet from the people she loves yet is helpless to get to them. And how terrible for Willie knowing he must help Barnabas at the expense of Maggie, he wants to help her but alas he cannot. Such is a life for a vampire's slave.

Another cool episode BTW.

[Midnite]

When he comes into Josette's oom after Sam and Joe leave, he should be all sympathy and understanding: "Oh, my dear, you were frightened, you didn't understand," and so on, and so on, ad nauseam.  Instead he scolded her.  One gets the feeling that back in the days when Barnabas and Josette were alive, she had very good reason to reject him.

I'm more of the school that believes Barnabas' coffin days caused him to become unhinged.  That "You're never going to leave me" bit in today's ep would seem to indicate this.  So I don't think his behavior after his release from the coffin necessarily reflects his actions before he climbed inside, and definitely not while both were still alive (before he was overcome by grief and rage).  Madness might also explain why he treats Willie much differently than Ben.  I also wonder if his belittling of Maggie/Josette was part of that brainwashing technique mentioned by IluvBarnabas.

I don't drink - at age 51, I have yet to acquire the grown-up taste for alchohol - so I have to ask others who do: when Sam says he can't get drunk no matter how much he drinks, does that make sense?  Is that a known phenomenon when people are under stress?  It sounds great in terms of drama, but I thought intoxication was a physical thing.  But why am I inquiring about reality as it relates to Dark Shadows?

Stress tends to decrease the effects of alcohol.  But A) not to that extent and B) not in a long-term alcoholic, so I wonder if what Sam really meant was that he can't relax no matter how much he drinks, which would actually make sense.  And C) my answer is not based on personal experience, lol.

I felt sorry for Willie when Maggie began to lose her trancelike state upstairs and he had to put his hand over her mouth. Made me wonder if he'd done such things in his former life for other reasons??

I wouldn't be surprised either.  Had Carolyn not pulled a gun on him in #204, I'm sure Willie would have have no qualms about putting his hand over her mouth.

[loril54]

I think that Barnabas feels lost and he just wants to regain some of his previous life back. Maggie is a very strong person and she doesn't want to let go of her currant life.  Barnabas it seems is only using the what he knows can work and his need for blood. Right now is I think he is not been given any caring. [spoiler]Julia is the first person that does that, and Sarah.[/spoiler] Barn is just operating on survival. The whole show now is about Barnabas and Maggie, the other sub plots have been dropped. They are still writing Barnabas as the bad guy.[spoiler]they are still planning to kill him.[/spoiler]

Very good show. Very well done, JF, jK, KLS

[Gothick]

This is by and large a pointless observation, but I'll make it anyhow.

In the original 1967 storyline, Barnabas' great love for Josette was [spoiler]finally revealed to be a complete will-o-the-wisp.  In a conversation between Julia and Barnabas in an October '67 episode, Julia ALMOST gets Barnabas to admit that Josette never really did return his love.  He certainly gets very annoyed with her "poking and prying."  It's implied that the only love Barnabas really knew as a human was from Sarah.  Remember how, when he was with Miss Winters in the Old House during his initial arrival, he laughs bitterly at the notion of there ever having been any "love" in that house.

All this implies that Barnabas' original story was much more tragic--and emotionally twisted--than the romantic narrative eventually revealed in the 1795 storyline.  Of course, the original story would have been a lot less satisfying, emotionally, for the audience, had they kept to it for Vicki's time travel back to the past.

Montague Summers reports a number of versions of the folk tradition that a suicide may return as a vampire, as a nosferatu, and I wonder whether Art Wallace had intended this as the original backstory to Barnabas' existence as one of the living dead.[/spoiler]

G.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

[spoiler]Montague Summers reports a number of versions of the folk tradition that a suicide may return as a vampire, as a nosferatu, and I wonder whether Art Wallace had intended this as the original backstory to Barnabas' existence as one of the living dead.[/spoiler]

Hmmm... If handled correctly, that might have been very interesting.

[CT!_CTP/FITBs]

Be sure to check out these (hopefully  ) humorous topics related to this episode:

From "Caption This!":

From "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s)":

[Lydia]

Hmmm... If handled correctly, that might have been very interesting.

Yes, it makes the story that was actually shown seem rather tame by comparison.  But then, the road not taken always seems more exciting.

[Jackie]

I really felt for Sam and Joe.  They so desperately wanted to find Maggie and they were SO close to her, yet so far away.  Loved the scene in the car.

Hearing Joe's voice from upstairs in Josette's room helped snap Maggie out of that trancelike state she was in.  Reality started to creep back in and the only thing that kept her from going to them was Willie.  Too bad he didn't let her go downstairs into her father's arms.  That would have been very awkward for Barnabas to explain.  I'm sure he would have tried but if Maggie got away from him, she would eventually told everything.  Of course, then it would have been another story.

Barnabas was like Jekyll and Hyde.  First he sweet-talks Maggie at dinner, speaking about all the things "he" wants to happen.  After Sam and Joe leave, he's all Hyde, wanting to punish her for wanting to go to her father.  Willie was brave to try to defend her saying it was him to knocked something over.  Anyone else think Barnabas bits her again!?  I do.  Speaking of bites, I didn't see any marks on her neck and it was uncovered.  Wonder if Barnabas has lost his hold on her at this point?  I'm sure he'll try to regain it, but now Maggie has something else to think about.

Everyone was great and another incredible episode.

[arashi]

Wow! Now that would have been an interesting road to take, what Gothick said. As for Barnabas' behavior, I agree that madness and impatience play a large role in his dealings with Maggie and Willie.

Don't ask me anymore of your Willie questions? LMAO. I wonder if he meant to say silly questions.

These episodes are so fantastically spooky. I've seen them several times and yet I'm still entranced by them. There's some fantastic lighting here, fantastic framing. Having Barnabas and Maggie eating dinner by candlelight, backlit by the fire... gorgeous. I wish they were able to keep up like this for the rest of the series.

[Alondra]

Don't ask me anymore of your Willie questions? LMAO. I wonder if he meant to say silly questions.

Is THAT what he said? I couldn't make it out, and rewound a few times to try to make it out, it sounded like Willie, but that really sounded rather silly for a man like Barnabas to say.

Willie can ask me all his Willie questions and as long as his lip quivers I'll never become bored with them.

Alondra

[EmeraldRose]

This was one of the episodes with a  "script blooper".  Sam was holding a script, and Barnabas was looking at it, too!

Barnabas clearly was mad during this episode.  I think all that time in the coffin did it to him.  Maggie has a strong personality, and it's too bad she wasn't able to run downstairs when Joe and Sam were there.

Maggie sure looked beautiful in that dress, and her hair was perfect. 

Poor Willie - torn between wanting to help Maggie and his fear of Barnabas.

----- Sally -----