Author Topic: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?  (Read 13718 times)

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Offline michael c

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2006, 11:28:09 PM »
i don't think that media promotion is that important for this event because it is so hyper-specific and not reliant on much "casual attendance".

even if it had been heavily promoted it's not like the average new yorker is going to look at their weekend and say "on sunday let's get up,go for brunch,hit the farmer's market and then check out the dark shadows fan convention".

i doubt any of us became aquainted with this event through mainstream media outlets.we are an extremely devoted(dare i say obsessive)fan base who keeps abreast of show related activities via online forums like this one,printed newsletters like the "shadowgram",announcements from mpi,big finish and so on.

so i doubt lack of media promotion effected attendance either way.
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Offline jimbo

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2006, 11:52:25 PM »
i don't think that media promotion is that important for this event because it is so hyper-specific and not reliant on much "casual attendance".

even if it had been heavily promoted it's not like the average new yorker is going to look at their weekend and say "on sunday let's get up,go for brunch,hit the farmer's market and then check out the dark shadows fan convention".

i doubt any of us became aquainted with this event through mainstream media outlets.we are an extremely devoted(dare i say obsessive)fan base who keeps abreast of show related activities via online forums like this one,printed newsletters like the "shadowgram",announcements from mpi,big finish and so on.

so i doubt lack of media promotion effected attendance either way.

I respectfully disagree with your position. If there had been an article in the N.Y. Daily News and the New York Post informing its readers about this historic event, I can almost assure you that there would have been more people attending the event. I personally have been told by individuals that if they had known about the 40th Anniversary Festival, they would have gone to see it. I am sure there are more people who would have attended the Fest had they known about it.
The Dark Shadows universe cannot be limited to us-no lack of respect intended. I have always indicated here that it is my belief that the Dark Shadows franchise has not been marketed to the degree that it should be. The concept of Dark Shadows needs to be extended far past this fan base if there ever will be a new DS series and the return of the classic series to television. It needs new blood and new fans. What is the harm in spending some money on marketing the last Festival? Certainly the owners have made millions of dollars to the x factor (and rightfully so). In this case, they opted to be content with a small crowd so that it would be more controllable; small crowd=small headaches and more organization. I would have chosen a larger venue and marketed the event. Yes it would have been much more expensive for the organizers but it was an incredible milestone-once in a lifetime event. It deserved to be on the big stage. Just my opinion.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2006, 11:53:38 PM »
i doubt any of us became aquainted with this event through mainstream media outlets.we are an extremely devoted(dare i say obsessive)fan base who keeps abreast of show related activities via online forums like this one,printed newsletters like the "shadowgram",announcements from mpi,big finish and so on.

That's very true. The first I ever heard of the Fests was from reading a blurb in USA Today - but that was back in 1986, when the Fests were only 3 years old, and before I became reimmersed in fandom. These days media attention might alert a few more potential attendees to the Fests' existence, but, as you say, the majority of attendees, especially those who are active in online fandom, are well aware of them because they read SG, the fanzines, and/or the various online Web sites, lists and boards.

Offline Midnite

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2006, 12:01:56 AM »
My theory on all of this is that JP and company wanted to have a crowd that they could control and create the appearance of order (half joking).

LOL  But I think it's possible that the Festival underestimated the number of people that their usual advertising (Festival mailers, fan publications, word of mouth, etc.) would bring in.

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(the auditorium was filled to capacity for the main events).

I don't think so.  According to the capacity chart for the NYM at the BB on Marriott's website, its Grand Ballroom holds 1800 chairs, with a total capacity of 2010, and 1545 for banquet seating.  Yet, 1200 fans attended over the 3-day weekend.

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Only the people who work for the DS Festival know if the 40th Festival was a disappointment from a financial perspective.

Oh, absolutely.  Nancy, as head of security for the last Fest, is a reliable source, and I was (and am) only speaking as an observer.  And we don't know how much revenue was generated from the sale of Festival merchandise such as its books, calendars, photos, etc.

so i doubt lack of media promotion effected attendance either way.

That's my feeling too.

Offline jimbo

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2006, 12:12:46 AM »
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(the auditorium was filled to capacity for the main events).

I don't think so.  According to the capacity chart for the NYM at the BB on Marriott's website, its Grand Ballroom holds 1800 chairs, with a total capacity of 2010, and 1545 for banquet seating.  Yet, 1200 fans attended over the 3-day weekend.

Oh Midnite you are good. lol You have to stop counting chairs on a Saturday. lol  My observation was that all the seats that were in the room were filled during one of the main events.
Maybe that is why I failed my math regents. That was good research you did. You got me. lol

As I indicated in my last post I believe that any promotion would have drawn more people. Just my opinion.

Offline Midnite

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2006, 12:24:39 AM »
Oh Midnite you are good. lol You have to stop counting chairs on a Saturday. lol  My observation was that all the seats that were in the room were filled during one of the main events.

Maybe that is why I failed my math regents. That was good research you did. You got me. lol

As I indicated in my last post I believe that any promotion would have drawn more people. Just my opinion.

LOL, thanks, but I wasn't counting, I swear!  The numbers are on a chart that comes up in a Google search.  And I remembered there being a lot of empty space in the back of the room.  But I hear you, and of course your opinion is always welcome!

Offline jimbo

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2006, 12:31:03 AM »
LOL, thanks, but I wasn't counting, I swear!  The numbers are on a chart that comes up in a Google search.  And I remembered there being a lot of empty space in the back of the room.  But I hear you, and of course your opinion is always welcome!

Oh yes you were counting one chair at a time lol. Anything to win an argument. What have we become?

Boy, I may have taken a look at your paper when I was taking those regents in high school. I might have passed. lol

Offline Midnite

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 01:50:20 AM »
Oh yes you were counting one chair at a time lol. Anything to win an argument. What have we become?

LOL!  After working alongside MB for years, I'd probably create an algorithm to analyze the capacity of the ballroom before I'd count the chairs.   [cheesyb]

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Boy, I may have taken a look at your paper when I was taking those regents in high school. I might have passed. lol

We don't take Regents Exams in California.  It would cut into our beach time.  [winkb]

Offline Julia99

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2006, 02:41:09 AM »
i don't think that media promotion is that important for this event because it is so hyper-specific and not reliant on much "casual attendance".

even if it had been heavily promoted it's not like the average new yorker is going to look at their weekend and say "on sunday let's get up,go for brunch,hit the farmer's market and then check out the dark shadows fan convention".

I have to disagree here .. just a few days before the event I casually met two groups of people who really wanted to attend but didn't KNOW anything abut it because it wasn't advertised in anyway (e.g. VV or TONY)--they weren't the "traditional" fans--so the some regular PR might've been helpful
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Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2006, 04:27:12 AM »
I'd have to agree with Raineypark about the NYC being VERY expensive. The fest was much more expensive than I would've liked it to be, and it's likely that many people didn't attend because they couldn't AFFORD IT. Perhaps if they had it elsewhere it would get a better turn out. But then, the fests that they've had in small places--Tarrytown comes to mind-- probably didn't have as good as a turn out because they may have not been enough places to stay for 1000s of people. I don't know, the 06 fest was my first, but I thought there were TONS of people there. 1200 is quite enough, if you ask me.
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Offline Nancy

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2006, 05:16:36 AM »
Two things need to be in place for effective advertising: media coverage/promotion prior to the event and the series being on the air.  There is simply too many entities look for free publicity for editors or radio station managers to give away free publicity for a product that isn't even relevant for most people.  DS isn't on the air.   It is difficult to say the 40th Anniversary of a TV show is a big deal when the thing isn't on the air anywhere.  All festivals that have had huge turnouts (4-6 thousand people) occurred when the series was on the air and the actors were invited to do interviews on radio and TV prior to the event, many times just a day or two prior to the event itself.   At the fests where there was plenty of pre-fest promotion, the local media came out to cover the story too.

That has not happened in awhile.  The reality is that DS is not relevant to the general public because it is not easily available or seen on TV anywhere.  You have to make the effort to go looking for it in order to be a part of it.  No causal turning of the TV Channel and coming upon it, there isn't the chance look at a TV Guide for a brief description and either remembering the show or wanting to take a look because it sounds intriguing.

And remember too that if the show is off the air, many fans simply lose interest.  There is always the hard core fans who watch videos or DVDs, regularly participate on boards such as this one, post on lists but for the most part, attendance drops on lists and boards when DS is not on the air.  Attendance drops at the festivals.

The 40th anniversary had something like 1200 people and that's been one of the lowest turnouts since the series went off SciFi.  Even though the festival is non-profit, it still has to make enough money to break even and not lose money.  It has to remain solvent and flying actors from one coast to another, paying their expenses, and the rest of it is expensive.   Fans like the ones who are here and elsewhere actively participating in DS fandom are the stem that will keep the flower blooming but even non profit entities have to follow common business sense.

It's amazing to me that the fests have continued given these realities in whatever capacity.  I was shocked at how low the attendance at the 40th I guess only because I had expected more to come to celebrate that landmark but in hindsight it was silly of me to have expected it given the things I pointed out above.

As there has not been any announcement about an upcoming fest, it is fair to assume that either something else is in the works or there is a struggle behind the scenes to figure out what to do so there isn't any going into a hole financially.  The festivals are a part of the publicity arm of DCP and if there is nothing to publicize, it doesn;t make much sense to have them at all.  However, I think some smaller scale event could happen.  We'll see.

All my opinion of course.

Nancy

Offline Nancy

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2006, 05:34:01 AM »
I respectfully disagree with your position. If there had been an article in the N.Y. Daily News and the New York Post informing its readers about this historic event, I can almost assure you that there would have been more people attending the event. I personally have been told by individuals that if they had known about the 40th Anniversary Festival, they would have gone to see it. I am sure there are more people who would have attended the Fest had they known about it.

I completely agree with you, Jimbo.  Back in the day when the show was on the air, the DS actors were invited to be interviewed or a story or two was generated in those papers along with radio coverage.

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The Dark Shadows universe cannot be limited to us-no lack of respect intended.

Very true but there is the notion that anyone who enjoyed DS would be getting ShadowGram, participate on the lists and boards and that's simply not true.  Look at the membership on this board and note how many people actually participate.  The same is true with yahoo DS lists.  You can have hundreds of members but just the same group of twenty or so people who reguarly participate.  There is an interest but not that kind of interest where it comes to be active in fandom as a regular convention-goer.  I have talked to many DS fans outside of the active fandom who will buy the DVDs of the show but maybe go to one convention, if that.  The urge to go when the series is off the air has historically been much less.

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I have always indicated here that it is my belief that the Dark Shadows franchise has not been marketed to the degree that it should be. The concept of Dark Shadows needs to be extended far past this fan base if there ever will be a new DS series and the return of the classic series to television.

I disagree with you here.  There is so much competition out there especially when it comes to supernatural based programs and films.  I do believe though that with the death of Dan Curtis there stands a better chance that DS can be taken in new directions with the right script and production team.  I have always believed his interference in the past with potential DS projects is what led to their ultimately not happening.

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It needs new blood and new fans. What is the harm in spending some money on marketing the last Festival?

Paid advertising in New York City is sky high.  You can easily spend $5,000 on basic advertising in the smaller publications.  And that is the bare minimum.

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Certainly the owners have made millions of dollars to the x factor (and rightfully so). In this case, they opted to be content with a small crowd so that it would be more controllable; small crowd=small headaches and more organization. I would have chosen a larger venue and marketed the event. Yes it would have been much more expensive for the organizers but it was an incredible milestone-once in a lifetime event. It deserved to be on the big stage. Just my opinion.

The festival itself has long been the publicity arm of DCP for Dark Shadows.  There isn't any DS series to promote on the air.   I don't believe the festival itself can make the decision to spend tons of money with the knowledge that that effort will not likely produce any better results.  Also, we don't know how much money has been allocated to promoting DS.  Maybe the money simply wasn't there to do anymore with it.

Nancy

Offline MsCriseyde

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2006, 06:18:54 AM »
But then, the fests that they've had in small places--Tarrytown comes to mind-- probably didn't have as good as a turn out because they may have not been enough places to stay for 1000s of people.
The problem with some of the smaller venues is that airfare and ground transportation get much more expensive.


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Offline BuzzH

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2006, 06:22:26 AM »
The 40th anniversary gathering was dismal in terms of numbers. Very dismal. 

Hi Nancy. I am a bit surprised that you feel that the last Fest was not well attended.

i've only been to three fest(2003/06 brooklyn and 04 tarrytown)so i don't have alot to compare it to but i thought it seemed like a well attended event

I've been going to these things since 1990, save for 5 years (1998-2002) and I can tell you from THAT perspective, this Fest was well attended, at least as well attended as the 1990 to 1996 Fests were.  The only REALLY HUGE Fest, again, from MY perspective, was 1997.  There SEEMED to be about 4,000 ppl at the 1997 Fest, although I'm SURE it wasn't THAT many ppl, but it seemed that way for some reason.  Since returning to fandom after my self-imposed 5 year exhile the only Fest that *I* thought was a bust, attendance-wise, was Tarrytown 2004!  That Fest was like a frickin' ghosttown, every dealor complained LOUDLY about the lack of ppl!

So, I personally feel that the 40th Anniversary Fest in Brooklyn was respectively attended.  ;)
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Offline Nancy

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Anything About 2007?
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2006, 06:39:52 AM »
I'm fairly certain that TPTP were not expecting a big turnout in 2004 in Tarrytown.

Nancy


But then, the fests that they've had in small places--Tarrytown comes to mind-- probably didn't have as good as a turn out because they may have not been enough places to stay for 1000s of people.
The problem with some of the smaller venues is that airfare and ground transportation get much more expensive.