DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 II => Topic started by: LorraineAAB on December 04, 2003, 06:40:52 AM

Title: NODS
Post by: LorraineAAB on December 04, 2003, 06:40:52 AM: I would imagine your parents wouldn't have been thrilled by Night of Dark Shadows, either, what with: (Spoilers galore for those who would be spoiled)

[spoiler]**Quentin attempting to rape, then drown, his nice new wife, while cheating on her with a floozy ghost dressed only in the Sexy Nightgown of Death, and somehow finding time to paint the world's UGLIEST pictures !
(Which non-talent he inherited from an adulterous ancestor. He also inherited the house--- and the ancestor's girlfriend.)

**A truly un-PC portrayal of a mentally-challenged psychopath caretaker who ALSO tries to rape the nice young wife, has road-rage issues, and is the exploited boy-toy of the floozy ghost in the Sexy Nightgown of Death, with his own aunt as pimp !

**It is implied the aunt's previous incarnation was under the unwholesome influence of the floozy ghost when she was a LIVING floozy.
It's clear the adult version has a fixation on the ghost, chock-full of kinky subtexts.

**The artist's best friend gets some unwanted succubus attention when the floozy ghost tries to smother him with the Sexy Nightgown of Death.

**The nice young wife has to help kill the Special Ed-psycho caretaker.

**Floozy Ghost wins the whole shebang, everyone ends up dead, and all without EVER changing out of the Sexy Nightgown of Death. Nihilistic bummer, or what?[/spoiler]

Now, mind you, I LIKE this film better than the other, but all the sexual violence was creepier than the ketchup-blood spurting in HoDS, because, darn it, stuff like that DOES happen every day.

Maybe it's just as well DS was off the air when this was released. The people who protested HoDS might have stormed the studio !
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 04, 2003, 08:35:15 AM: Quote from: LorraineAAB on December 04, 2003, 06:40:52 AM
I would imagine your parents wouldn't have been thrilled by Night of Dark Shadows, either, what with: ...

My mom didn't see hoDS until she took me and a friend to see NoDS, hoDS and Vincent Price's Cry of the Banshee as a triple bill at a local drive-in in August 1971. She hated the blood and gore of hoDS, but basically because that wasn't her sort of thing. But she enjoyed NoDS and never really saw anything wrong with having taken two 15-year-olds to see it. And mind you, we'd seen the R rated 97 minute version that was mistakenly circulated in many New England theaters instead of the 94 minute GP (PG today) version with which most fans are familiar.

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but all the sexual violence was creepier than the ketchup-blood spurting in HoDS

If anything, the level of sexual violence, indeed, sexuality in general was much higher in that 97 minute version, as anyone who has been lucky enough to catch the times Darren Gross' has shown some of the NoDS restoration footage knows..

(Personally I can't wait to see what Darren has planned for the Tarrytown Weekend. I'd love to see the seance sequence again. Even without its sound, it's incredibly enthralling and (no pun intended) haunting...)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 04, 2003, 04:47:31 PM: Darling MB,

Darren is showing NoDS clips at Tarrytown next year???

Gods, I just *may* have to attend--even though the Roger Davis alert is set to a truly terrifying ORANGE level.

My Mom also hated DS, but she grew to hate it long before the movie ever came out. It was the same as what others have reported--every time she saw the show, there was something really gruesome going on. Mom still has a lot of sensitivity towards violence. A couple of years back, my Dad and I were watching a TV broadcast of the restored Spartacus, and after a bit she asked if we could turn it off, because it was so violent and it was upsetting her (I think she actually retired to her bedroom at this point). I was surprised, given how stylised and balletic the violence in that film was compared to what's done in routine police dramas today.

Mom actually banned me from watching DS back in 1969, and watching it in secret was the first real act of parental rebellion I can remember. I was a real goody-two-shoes as a child... the nastiness was festering beneath the surface of course... heh heh...

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 04, 2003, 11:04:09 PM: Quote from: Gothick on December 04, 2003, 04:47:31 PM
Darren is showing NoDS clips at Tarrytown next year???

Well, it's been a while since I've spoken/exchanged e-mail with Darren, so I'm simply assuming he will be doing the presentation because he's been the only person to do so thus far. However, the tentative schedule simply states events will include: "screenings of the recovered 'Night of DS' footage".

But if I'm mistaken, I'm sure Darren will clear up any misconception whenever he gets the chance...
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 04, 2003, 11:11:39 PM: Oh, they already have a schedule up on the website? My, that's impressive.

I just hope the NoDS feature doesn't turn out like the showing of the precursor to DS, "The House"... or the 1966 version of The Crucible with Thayer David and Clarice Blackburn, which was announced TWICE in successive years and never materialized... or the many other things that were supposed to happen and never did at various Festivals!

Wonder whether Pierson would be interested in having me present something about Grayson Hall?

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 04, 2003, 11:20:42 PM: Quote from: Gothick on December 04, 2003, 11:11:39 PM
they already have a schedule up on the website?

I'm not sure it the tentative schedule is up on the Fest Web site or not yet, but it was included in the latest SG Online Update.

Darren's NoDS presentation at the 2001 NYC Fest was sort of cut short/hurried along because the schedule was running late (no surprise there ::)), but none of them have been canceled so far.

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Wonder whether Pierson would be interested in having me present something about Grayson Hall?

It couldn't hurt to ask. You know I'd be right there in the front row for it! ;)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 05, 2003, 01:06:20 AM: The NODS footage/Tarrytown thing is extremely tentative at the moment and nothing concrete is planned yet.

Whether any lost footage is shown is still up in the air and has to be worked out in further discussions.

If all goes smoothly, I'll be there to show something NODS related but no idea if and what at this point.

What clips that I've shown previously are the most popular and would you want to see?

I felt the ones at the California one a year or so back didn't seem to illicit much of a response and I wouldn't want a dead program.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Julia99 on December 05, 2003, 02:27:02 AM: Quote from: LorraineAAB on December 04, 2003, 06:40:52 AM
I would imagine your parents wouldn't have been thrilled by Night of Dark Shadows, either, what with:
[spoiler]* the exploited boy-toy of the floozy ghost in the Sexy Nightgown of Death, with his own aunt as pimp !

The Sexy Nightgown with the Bustier of Steel pushing those buppies up higher than they've ever been!

Aunt. .are you talking about the departed Mrs. Stoddard mentioned in the first scene but never seen? Carlotta is not Quentin's aunt, she just the housekeeper, a creepy well dressed and coiffed housekeeper.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 05, 2003, 02:49:40 AM: Gerard isn't mentally challenged- he just has a stutter.

He's definitely deranged though and seems to have learned to drive in L.A.... ;)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Midnite on December 05, 2003, 02:59:08 AM: Quote from: Darren Gross on December 05, 2003, 02:49:40 AM
He's definitely deranged though and seems to have learned to drive in L.A.... ;)

Heheh.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gerard on December 05, 2003, 01:27:44 PM: I wonder if they got the Sexy Nightgown of Death from Ohrbachs? The Bustier of Steel, though, definitely has a Junior Sophisticates look about it.

Gerard
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Raineypark on December 05, 2003, 01:48:13 PM: Quote from: Gerard on December 05, 2003, 01:27:44 PM
I wonder if they got the Sexy Nightgown of Death from Ohrbachs?

From what I remember of Ohrbachs, they were more likely to have carried the Muu-muu of Death... ::)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 05, 2003, 04:27:56 PM: Hi Darren, I'd definitely like to see the Seance sequence. I haven't seen any of your NoDS presentations so really I would like to see ALL of it, if there's time.

How's this for an idea: get the actors to read their lines from the script while you run the clips. There probably wouldn't be enough rehearsal time (or maybe ANY rehearsal time) for anything like a sync-up, but it would certainly add a novel flavor to the presentation! I'd be willing to bet that David, Lara, Johnny and Nancy will be there, and perhaps somebody could stand in for Kate--Donna, perhaps? NO, *not* Roger Davis!

Steve
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 05, 2003, 04:34:04 PM: Oh, and of course, we'd have to get someone to portray The Divine One (Ms. Hall to you).

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: ClaudeNorth on December 06, 2003, 03:05:29 AM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on December 04, 2003, 11:20:42 PM

Quote
Wonder whether Pierson would be interested in having me present something about Grayson Hall?

It couldn't hurt to ask. You know I'd be right there in the front row for it! ;)

Count me in for that! I'll be there with my "I (heart) Grayson" sign, shrieking like a teenage girl at a David Cassidy concert!

John
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 06, 2003, 06:41:13 AM: You can see the missing footage either at a festival panel that I might do next year or perhaps sometime in the next 10 years or so it will be restored and released on a DVD. ::)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: LorraineAAB on December 07, 2003, 12:06:58 AM: Quote from: Julia99 on December 05, 2003, 02:27:02 AM
Aunt. .are you talking about the departed Mrs. Stoddard mentioned in the first scene but never seen? Carlotta is not Quentin's aunt, she just the housekeeper, a creepy well dressed and coiffed housekeeper.

I was referring to Carlotta being Gerard's aunt. Unless thay was just a pretense under which she (and previous incarnations of Angelique's little buddy Sarah) brought in assorted stud-muffins (more or less--- a ghost, even a nympho ghost, shouldn't be fussy) to keep Ange occupied until a (living) dead-ringer for her lost Charles showed up.

P.S., now that I think of it, Angelique exploited an innocent child--- was she a previous incarnation of--- gasp!--- MICHAEL JACKSON? I mean, bleach his hair, get him a Wonder Bra, and dress him in the Sexy Nightgown of Death--

Shuddering at the creative use this image might be put to by our best PhotoShop mavens...

L.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 10, 2003, 12:10:10 AM: Quote from: Darren Gross on December 05, 2003, 01:06:20 AM
If all goes smoothly, I'll be there to show something NODS related but no idea if and what at this point.

What clips that I've shown previously are the most popular and would you want to see?

Well, anyone who knows me or pays even the slightest bit of attention to what I post about NoDS should know by now that I would crawl through fire over burning timbers and shards of broken glass just to get a glimpse of any of the recovered footage - especially anything that I haven't already seen. So, given that, perhaps I'm not the best person to ask. However, that certainly won't stop me from suggesting clips that an audience wider than myself might like. [b003]

I'd say that the seance and the extended hanging of Angelique should most definitely be shown. The extended version of the taking of Angelique from the tower, Quentin's more explicit molestation of Tracy in their bedroom, and Tracy's dream sequence could also be important.

As for my own personal wish list, I'd love to see anywhere from anything to everything in the recovered footage featuring Grayson Hall and Kate Jackson - particularly scenes like the one in which Tracy catches Gerard staring at her and Carlotta explains that he's her nephew and his dogs are an important part of estate security, and the picnic. Also on that list would be what many fans refer to as "the piano scene" - the flashback to the music room. (Sound, no sound - who cares?! :D)

(I just wish scenes like the one involving Angelique's two portraits, Tracy's encounter with Gerard at the stable, and the discovery of Charles' skeleton and Angelique's coffin (I particularly do not understand about that one - how could DC not have included THAT in the film??!!) weren't seemingly lost forever...)

So, if I throw myself at your feet, beg, and promise to do anything for you (well, almost anything - then again, maybe certain things *might* be negotiable - and actually there are more scenes that I'd personally love to see) do you think anything on my personal wish list might possibly show up in your presentation?? Hmmm. ;)

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I felt the ones at the California one a year or so back didn't seem to illicit much of a response and I wouldn't want a dead program.

What was wrong with those people?! >:(
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 10, 2003, 12:23:17 AM: Quote from: LorraineAAB on December 07, 2003, 12:06:58 AM
P.S., now that I think of it, Angelique exploited an innocent child--- was she a previous incarnation of--- gasp!--- MICHAEL JACKSON? I mean, bleach his hair, get him a Wonder Bra, and dress him in the Sexy Nightgown of Death--

I know you're joking. But, no matter how any of us might feel towards him, what any of us may personally believe took place, or how today's media just loves to try and convict almost everyone and anyone on its own, he *IS* still innocent until proven guility.

We wouldn't condone that sort of joke if it was made at any of the DS stars' expense. So, it's not really fair to let jokes about non-DS celebrities pass without pointing that out...
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 10, 2003, 12:34:36 AM: Golly, I'll have to go back and look at Darren's site again. For some reason or other, I thought that the discovery of Charles' skeleton *was* amongst the recovered footage.

I well remember opening the latest issue of Famous Monsters of Filmland back in '71 and seeing a full-page still of that scene in the magazine. Boy, was I puzzled when I finally got to see the movie and there was no sign of that scene!

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 10, 2003, 12:43:08 AM: Alas, I don't believe so...
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Midnite on December 10, 2003, 01:26:40 AM: I recall reading that the discovery of the skeleton and coffin are lost. :(

Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on December 10, 2003, 12:10:10 AM
What was wrong with those people?! >:(

LOL. Well, I can't speak for others, but I was sitting in stunned silence as the recovered footage ran and joined the audience afterwards in showing how grateful I felt for that amazing opportunity.

The scene at the piano, especially, BLEW ME AWAY!
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 10, 2003, 02:15:07 AM: Wow. Here's hoping Darren decides to include the piano scene next year! I really need to go back and re-read my copy of the NoDS script...

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 10, 2003, 06:02:16 AM: G., unless you have the DS Movie Book, I don't think you can read the piano scene. I think it's only in that version of the NoDS script - I don't think it's in the other script version that we have. In fact, I think that script contains an entirely different scene in its place (a flashback involving Gabriel and Charles) that either doesn't appear in the Movie Book version, or it appears in a totally different part of the script.
(I'd check, but I just realized that I don't even know where my copy of that other version is!! :o And that's VERY unusual for me because I'm nothing if not meticulous (some might even say obsessive ;)) about where I store my DS stuff.)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 10, 2003, 10:05:12 AM: MB

You're enthusiastic suggestions are noted!

The Tracy dream sequence, sadly no longer exists. Add this (along with the lost skeleton scene) to the 'why on earth was this cut?' pile. That section of the film is longer, but it mostly consists of a series of shots holding on Tracy in as she tosses and turns, superimposed with Angelique's eyes. There is then a dissolve to another angle as Tracy rises trancelike from the bed. Between these scenes is where the poolhouse dream would have happened...Thankfully, unlike the skeleton scene, there are many photos and about 15 seconds of footage of it that appears in the end of the theatrical trailer...There's a link I just put on the site www.nightofdarkshadows.com where you can download the trailer and see it...In this trailer, the title graphic is superimposed over it, but you can still make out what is going on. Thankfully, the vault has the negative of the trailer sans text and I'd love to have that as part of a future DVD...Unfortunately we don't have any more but that one shot so it can't be put back in the film.

The piano scene was a rewrite and was revised during production. I'm glad you were impressed. It should look terrific in color and hopefully we'll get a chance to see it that way eventually.

I would like to show the r-rated extended tower flashback (as well as the other 6 r-rated bits- since they have color and sound, they work well within the presentation...same goes for the 2 min trailer which is pretty terrific and always raises goose pimples.) but not the much longer version from the directors cut. Without sound, I felt it didn't play well at the fest and I'd definitely try to drop that from the program.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 10, 2003, 10:27:52 AM: The skeleton scene is a very odd deletion. It would have run a minute or under and if it was a matter of running time, they could have shaved a few seconds off of some other scenes throughout the picture in order to put it in.

I'm of the mind that it was cut either because the skeleton effect didn't come of well enough in the finished footage or most likely, the purpose of the scene and the dialogue in it caused confusion instead of answering questions....

For example...Quentin has only one line in the scene, "So that's why Laura was laughing at the funeral....they were burying an empty coffin!"

Here's where the confusion starts- 1) he's referring to a scene that happened over an hour and 1/2 earlier in the film 2) it's not made 100% clear in the dialogue what the skeleton signifies 3) the skeleton is Charles' remains after he was sealed in the room by Gabriel...It is lying ON TOP of a cheap pine-wood coffin, which has, lying inside it, the unseen remains of Angelique...hence her attack on Tracy in the basement a scene earlier. Part of the reason for Angelique's and Charles' spirits are not at rest is because 1) they were killed violently and untimely and 2) they were not buried on hallowed ground...it's part of Gabriel's punishment that they would never have rest.

In order for the scene to be 100% clear it would have needed a rewrite or different staging- perhaps one in which they open the pine box in order to theorize what the imagery signifies....As written in the script, it's still a bit unclear and as such was deemed a distraction and dropped...At least, that's my theory....

A shame since its such a striking image and along with the overhead shot of Angelique hanging, is one of the key images from the film...

It's also the scene I most wanted to find when I started this journey...
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Gothick on December 11, 2003, 06:10:33 PM: Darren, I'm so sorry about the skeleton discovery sequence--it always seems to be the way with these things...

And MB, thanks for the tip about the Movies book. I do own that book, but had never bothered to look at the screenplays very closely, since I'd already read the other draft of NoDS, for one. And looking through hoDS, I'm shocked at the jejune, listless quality of much of the dialogue--the cut scene where Roger, Liz and Barn visit the OH for the first time, for instance. VERY ho hum. Makes me wonder just how much time Gordon & Sam had to crank out that script--not much, I gather.

I think I found the "piano scene." I found a sequence that is a flashback to 1810 (and Lara wears the dress from the photo on the cover of the DS Music book--darn, am I sorry I never purchased that book!), with Parker, Selby, and Diana Millay. Truly fabulous. Since all 3 are alive and well, I don't see why we couldn't have a "staging" of that scene with the three reading their dialogue to the recovered footage.

I'll have to continue reading and see whether it was made more clear in this revised script the complicated idea GH explained in her notes about Carlotta not just keep the ghost alive, but actually experiencing Ang's orgasms when she was with Q! I quite liked that idea... sooo kinky!

G.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on December 12, 2003, 12:45:48 PM: Quote from: Gothick on December 05, 2003, 04:34:04 PM
Oh, and of course, we'd have to get someone to portray The Divine One (Ms. Hall to you).

The lady who plays the blonde haired forensic scientist(?) on CSI reminds me a little of Grayson. What with the right makeup and hair she would have a fair likeness to Ms. Hall. The voice might be a problem though.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Julia99 on December 12, 2003, 07:25:34 PM: You know there are other things they could've cut that some of these seemingly key scenes. . like the whole opening intro goes on waaaay too long for me .. .the drive up the house. . just cut to it . ..could've saved like 3 minutes there.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 13, 2003, 08:49:00 PM: Quote from: Darren Gross on December 06, 2003, 06:41:13 AM
You can see the missing footage ... sometime in the next 10 years or so it will be restored and released on a DVD. ::)

Let's try to stay a little more optimistic than that! [wink2]
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 13, 2003, 09:21:12 PM: Quote from: Gothick on December 11, 2003, 06:10:33 PM
I think I found the "piano scene." I found a sequence that is a flashback to 1810 (and Lara wears the dress from the photo on the cover of the DS Music book--darn, am I sorry I never purchased that book!)

Is the DS Music Book OOP now? That's a shame for fans who might have missed it. :( But here's a scan of the beautiful shot from this scene that was used on its cover:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/MusicB.jpg)
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 13, 2003, 09:28:49 PM: Quote from: Julia99 on December 12, 2003, 07:25:34 PM
the whole opening intro goes on waaaay too long for me .. .the drive up the house. . just cut to it . ..could've saved like 3 minutes there.

I'm pretty certain that was DC's homage (yeah, that's the word ;)) to the opening of Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca. You can't expect that DC would have cut, or even trimmed his homage, can you?
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Darren Gross on December 13, 2003, 10:25:15 PM: I certainly wouldn't. It's one of my favorite parts of the film. Moody, evocative and somehow the perfect way to start the story.
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Mark Rainey on December 13, 2003, 11:03:41 PM: Quote
the whole opening intro goes on waaaay too long for me .. .the drive up the house. . just cut to it . ..could've saved like 3 minutes there.

Not for me, either. One of the main strengths of NoDS in its current form is the strong atmosphere it evokes, and a large part of this is having so much of the character of Lyndhurst show through. The photography, the gray moodiness of the setting.... all this sets up perfectly the events that are to come. DS's setting, be it show or movies, is very important to its overall flavor; to me, every bit as important as a character itself.[/color]

--Mark
[/b][/color]
Title: Re:NODS
Post by: Cassandra on December 14, 2003, 09:54:26 AM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on December 13, 2003, 09:21:12 PM
Is the DS Music Book OOP now? That's a shame for fans who might have missed it. :( But here's a scan of the beautiful shot from this scene that was used on its cover:

I just purchased this book at this year's festival, and you're right MB, it's a beautiful picture. Thanks for posting it.

Cassandra
Title: Re: NODS
Post by: IluvBarnabas on October 14, 2006, 03:42:25 AM: I loved House of Dark Shadows, so I had high expectations for Night of Dark Shadows (even without my beloved Barnabas!) Unfortunately I just couldn't get into the story of NODS. Can't put my finger on it, but the movie just left me cold (and not in a good, spooky way).
Title: Re: NODS
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 14, 2006, 04:24:08 AM: Funny, I have the exact opposite reactions to the films. I LOVE NoDS, but hoDS leaves me cold - mostly because it completely sacrifices character development in favor of blood and gore. Not that I dislike blood and gore. Far from it. But it's far more effective when one actually cares about the characters. And who could possibly care much about characters when one knows so little about them? (I mean, in the beginning of the film as it stands now one doesn't even know if Roger and Liz are husband and wife, brother and sister, cousins, or whatever other relationships might be possible. [hall2_undecided]) Basically the only way to care about them is to transfer ones feelings for their daytime series counterparts. However, the characters in hoDS are not those same people. Not by a long shot...
Title: Re: NODS
Post by: Raineypark on October 14, 2006, 04:45:57 AM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on October 14, 2006, 04:24:08 AM
However, the characters in hoDS are not those same people. Not by a long shot...

Why IS that? Seriously....why are the characters in the movie so cold and lifeless? These actors have been playing the characters for quite some time.....they've all been working together, and yet the whole thing comes off as tho the performers were barely introduced, and the whole thing shot in 3 days.