DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: MaineGirl on April 24, 2003, 11:27:28 PM
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Dear Gang,
I was interested in getting in touch with anyone who has made, or who knows anyone who has made, dark shadows songvideos.
Songvideos are fantastic! A songvideo is a video (like you see on MTV, or did, in the old days), where there is a song and pictures that go with the lyrical images. People pick out a song, and then pick out a seris of moving clips from the eps, and put them together with two vcr's, and voila. You can now have Quentin and Angelique in love, or Barn and Julia, or you can have anything you like happen, if you've got the right song, and the right music.
I saw one recently at last year's fest, where Julia was the main, featured character, and managed to come out on top and give Barn his comeuppance. I'm not a Julia fan, per se, but I was very impressed with the person who had made this particular vid.
In addition, there are a number of clever home movies that have been shown at the fests over the years. You know the ones....people make the costumes and the sets, and then they create a movie that they'd like to see. "Baby Dark Shadows" was one series, and there were a whole host of others, most of them funny and intense, others of them serious and dark.
One that stands out in my mind was one made by some kids back in the 70's. They had a lot of blood and gore, and I'm sure they ran through the entire supply of their mother's white sheets. They had film of them jumping off the roof, and jumping out of cars, and all the characters, in a grisly voice, would accuse Willie of being the culprit of all sorts of wrongdoings. A gritty little film, I long to contact the maker and express my pleasure and appreciation.
So, if any of you make or know someone who makes songvids, I'd love to get in touch with you, and set up a deal. That goes for the home movies too!
Regards,
Maine Girl
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I saw one recently at last year's fest, where Julia was the main, featured character, and managed to come out on top and give Barn his comeuppance. I'm not a Julia fan, per se, but I was very impressed with the person who had made this particular vid.
The music was "I'll Stand By You", yes? Would love to see that one again too. That B & J video was put together by our own ProfStokes. She impresses me on a regular basis. :D
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Songvids are the one type of fan creation that my students really seemed to get a kick out of this semester. There are quite a few of them online for various fandoms, though I've not run across any for DS. These have all been made with computer software, so the editing is much cleaner than earlier versions of songvids that involved 2 vcrs.
Since I've got quite a few bookmarked, thought I'd share. Hope this isn't getting too far off topic.
Drawn to the Rhythm: Slash & Gen Songvids by Ashinae (http://www.last-dance.com/vids/) -- I think this is mainly Lord of the Rings stuff.
Creation's Reflections Web Site (http://rcreations.101main.net/frame.htm) -- Various fandoms.
CreatiVideos (http://www.creativideos.com/) -- Various fandoms.
Dr. Fidelius's Varicoloured Videos (http://www.sidekicksociety.com/video/index.htm) - Harry Potter
FanVids Music Video Ring (http://o.webring.com/hub?ring=fanmusicvideorin&id=30&hub)
Buffy's Domain of Delight (http://www.buffysdomain.com/multimedia/clips.shtml) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Mistress Elektra Pendragon's Songvids (http://elektra.slashcity.tv/vids.html) -- various fandoms
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Drawn to the Rhythm: Slash & Gen Songvids by Ashinae (http://www.last-dance.com/vids/) -- I think this is mainly Lord of the Rings stuff.
I've seen some of these. Aragorn and Boromir-- who knew??!
Thanks for including the Buffy vids. Hope the site problems will get worked out cuz I'm anxious to see them.
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"Baby Dark Shadows" was one series, and there were a whole host of others, most of them funny and intense, others of them serious and dark.
Baby Dark Shadows was made by Richard Halpern (Usually Julia in the skits) and his niece and Nephews. I dont think they're avalible for sale. If they were, I would have bought one 10 years ago when they were made.
:-)
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I saw one recently at last year's fest, where Julia was the main, featured character, and managed to come out on top and give Barn his comeuppance. I'm not a Julia fan, per se, but I was very impressed with the person who had made this particular vid.
The music was "I'll Stand By You", yes? Would love to see that one again too. That B & J video was put together by our own ProfStokes. She impresses me on a regular basis. :D
Yes, indeed, I think it was! I had always thought that song would work well for a buddy cop show scenario, so I was unprepared to like it in the DS world. So when the video began, I was like, yeah, so? And then by the end, I was sitting straight up in my seat, all the hair on my arms standing up. I was very impressed, and got a lot of new insight into Julia's character.
Which, I think, is one of the strength's of the impact of songvids: the new insight that helps you look at the show in new ways.
Do you reckon that ProfStokes might be willing to set up some sort of negotiations for getting a copy of her vids?
Regards,
Maine Girl
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Songvids are the one type of fan creation that my students really seemed to get a kick out of this semester. There are quite a few of them online for various fandoms, though I've not run across any for DS. These have all been made with computer software, so the editing is much cleaner than earlier versions of songvids that involved 2 vcrs.
Since I've got quite a few bookmarked, thought I'd share. Hope this isn't getting too far off topic.
Drawn to the Rhythm: Slash & Gen Songvids by Ashinae (http://www.last-dance.com/vids/) -- I think this is mainly Lord of the Rings stuff.
Creation's Reflections Web Site (http://rcreations.101main.net/frame.htm) -- Various fandoms.
CreatiVideos (http://www.creativideos.com/) -- Various fandoms.
Dr. Fidelius's Varicoloured Videos (http://www.sidekicksociety.com/video/index.htm) - Harry Potter
FanVids Music Video Ring (http://o.webring.com/hub?ring=fanmusicvideorin&id=30&hub)
Buffy's Domain of Delight (http://www.buffysdomain.com/multimedia/clips.shtml) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Mistress Elektra Pendragon's Songvids (http://elektra.slashcity.tv/vids.html) -- various fandoms
Thank you for this list, I appreciate it! I have known about the online vids that were computer generated, but was not able to find any DS vids online either. I think that you are right about the computer generated ones being cleaner, but I'm of the opinion that there are still plenty of good vidders out there creating masterpeices with their two "bear skins and stone knives" vcr sets. ;)
Regards,
Maine Girl
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My all time favorite DS Music Video has to be "You are always on my mind" (the Pet Shop Boys cover of the song) which was done by a very gifted fan as a Barnabas/Julia romance video.
I don't own it, as we were told copies could not be sold due to concern over copyright infringement, but was fortunate enough to see it 3 times at different events. It's a beautiful, wonderful video. If you haven't seen it, Maine Girl, maybe you'll have the opportunity at some venue or other.
In my opinion, a showing of it is a sine qua non for the "Farewell" DS Festival. To me, Barnabas and Julia ARE Dark Shadows.
Gothick
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My all time favorite DS Music Video has to be "You are always on my mind" (the Pet Shop Boys cover of the song) which was done by a very gifted fan as a Barnabas/Julia romance video.
I don't own it, as we were told copies could not be sold due to concern over copyright infringement, but was fortunate enough to see it 3 times at different events. It's a beautiful, wonderful video. If you haven't seen it, Maine Girl, maybe you'll have the opportunity at some venue or other.
In my opinion, a showing of it is a sine qua non for the "Farewell" DS Festival. To me, Barnabas and Julia ARE Dark Shadows.
Gothick
Therein lies the rub. In tons of other fandoms, songvids are "traded." That is, they are sold for cost of tape plus postage. No profit is made, therefore, no copyright infringement is done. The kibosh was put on "selling" songvideos at the fest, since they apparently believed that the people selling them were making a profit, and since the event was offically organized, the fest could make whatever rules they wanted.
I would, however, understand this decision more if fanzines were also forbidden (the characters are so blatently "borrowed", surely this is also copyright infringement?), or images of Barn and Julia (surely copyrighted!), and so on, were also foribidden. But they're not. The only thing that was forbidden to be sold were the songvideos.
I think there was a misinterpretation about what was copyright infringement. If I make a DS songvideo, and "sell" it to someone for cost of tape plus postage, then I'm not making a profit. I'm not selling it, thus I'm doing no copyright infringement.
So this original rule, made by whomever, was perhaps made in error - and ever since then, there has been a sort of pariah effect on songvideos being distributed. Forever? It seems a shame that the skills and artistry of those making songvids on their living room rugs cannot be shared but once a year at a fest, and then, when the fests are over, will only languish into magnetic dust.
I will respect the fest's requests not to "sell" songvideos at fests, but I reserve the right to trade with fellow vidders outside the fest's venue.
Regards,
Maine Girl
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I would, however, understand this decision more if fanzines were also forbidden (the characters are so blatently "borrowed", surely this is also copyright infringement?), or images of Barn and Julia (surely copyrighted!), and so on, were also foribidden. But they're not. The only thing that was forbidden to be sold were the songvideos.
I think there was a misinterpretation about what was copyright infringement. If I make a DS songvideo, and "sell" it to someone for cost of tape plus postage, then I'm not making a profit. I'm not selling it, thus I'm doing no copyright infringement.
Sorry, but it's a myth that if you don't make a profit then it's not copyright infringement. Whether or not you make money can make a difference in the penalties awarded in court, but it's still a copyright violation to copy a work without the owner's permission.
The fact is that the owner of the copyright has the exclusive right to decide how the work will be used. Use of images and fan fiction, with some exceptions (one of which is parody), ARE arguably copyright violations. Yes, it's free advertising for the owner, but the decision to allow it is theirs and theirs alone.
Don't forget that the music used is also copied, though it's less likely that anything will come of it if it's used in a not-for-profit video.
There's a wealth of info in libraries and on the web regarding copyright, fair use, and public domain.
So this original rule, made by whomever, was perhaps made in error - and ever since then, there has been a sort of pariah effect on songvideos being distributed. Forever?
Well, perhaps not forever. Obviously you feel passionate about it, so why not see if you can affect a change in the policy DC Productions has concerning the distribution of DS music videos?
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I would, however, understand this decision more if fanzines were also forbidden (the characters are so blatently "borrowed", surely this is also copyright infringement?), or images of Barn and Julia (surely copyrighted!), and so on, were also foribidden. But they're not. The only thing that was forbidden to be sold were the songvideos.
I think there was a misinterpretation about what was copyright infringement. If I make a DS songvideo, and "sell" it to someone for cost of tape plus postage, then I'm not making a profit. I'm not selling it, thus I'm doing no copyright infringement.
Sorry, but it's a myth that if you don't make a profit then it's not copyright infringement. Whether or not you make money can make a difference in the penalties awarded in court, but it's still a copyright violation to copy a work without the owner's permission.
The fact is that the owner of the copyright has the exclusive right to decide how the work will be used. Use of images and fan fiction, with some exceptions (one of which is parody), ARE arguably copyright violations. Yes, it's free advertising for the owner, but the decision to allow it is theirs and theirs alone.
Don't forget that the music used is also copied, though it's less likely that anything will come of it if it's used in a not-for-profit video.
There's a wealth of info in libraries and on the web regarding copyright, fair use, and public domain.
So this original rule, made by whomever, was perhaps made in error - and ever since then, there has been a sort of pariah effect on songvideos being distributed. Forever?
Well, perhaps not forever. Obviously you feel passionate about it, so why not see if you can affect a change in the policy DC Productions has concerning the distribution of DS music videos?
That's a very good point, that each "show" can determine what they will allow and what they will not. I totally understand that. Whom should I contact, do you think, to ask for permission to do this?
I'm not trying to be pushy about this - but perhaps I don't truly understand everything that went into making the decisions. From what I understood, vidders were asked not to sell their videos in the dealer's room, at the fest, or advertise on a website.
However, at the same time, homemade videos are welcome to be shown at the fest, on the mornings on Saturday and Sunday. If I've made them, I want to sell them. I make no money on them, and often eat the postage in an effort to share with anyone who wants them.
And I would not be attempting to flaunt anyone's authority, but if someone were to ask me for a copy of my vids, I would make it for them.
Regards,
Maine Girl
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Oh gosh, I promise that when I called you passionate about it I didn't equate it with being pushy. :)
Jim Pierson may be able to tell you what the policy is concerning DS music videos. You could reach him by snail mail sent to DCP.
I've seen a few music videos that I would buy, as well the Cheep Production videos.
Oops, meant to tell you sooner that you can IM ProfStokes. Click on "Hey, Mainegirl, you have __ messages..." under the logo to access the feature.
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Oh gosh, I promise that when I called you passionate about it I didn't equate it with being pushy. :)
Jim Pierson may be able to tell you what the policy is concerning DS music videos. You could reach him by snail mail sent to DCP.
I've seen a few music videos that I would buy, as well the Cheep Production videos.
Oops, meant to tell you sooner that you can IM ProfStokes. Click on "Hey, Mainegirl, you have __ messages..." under the logo to access the feature.
Hey, thank you! For all this good information. I'll snail mail Jim (there's an address for DCP?), and IM ProfStokes, and see what can be done there. - and I hate coming across as pushy because sometimes, I just cannot stop arguing a point when I get passionate about something. Thanks for being understanding about it. : )
One last....Cheep Productions videos? Any DS of interest there?
Regards,
Maine Girl
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Hi again Maine Girl,
Cheep Productions did a gloriously demented series of parody episodes of Dark Shadows. The production values were actually rather stunning, given that these were totally fan written, acted, and produced.
I won't print any names due to the understandable desire of the fans involved for privacy, but the actor who plays Julia (a very talented young man who has Grayson's vocal inflections and mannerisms down to a T) is hysterical! And he plays Barnabas, too!
One of the shows was called Save Our Cemeteries. If memory serves, the plot revolved around a (sadly perpetually off-camera) scheming Count Petofi's plot to bulldoze the Eagle Hill Cemetery and turn the premises into a peep-show.
There was another one where Julia had cured Barnabas and he had to learn how to sleep in a bed again. He kept sliding out, while wearing the cutest bat-printed pyjamas. At some point Julia shows up in a Madonna outfit and performs a slinky dance to one of those early 90s sexaholic songs of hers. I literally nearly died laughing!
Ah, the memories.
Steve
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Hi again Maine Girl,
Cheep Productions did a gloriously demented series of parody episodes of Dark Shadows. The production values were actually rather stunning, given that these were totally fan written, acted, and produced.
I won't print any names due to the understandable desire of the fans involved for privacy, but the actor who plays Julia (a very talented young man who has Grayson's vocal inflections and mannerisms down to a T) is hysterical! And he plays Barnabas, too!
One of the shows was called Save Our Cemeteries. If memory serves, the plot revolved around a (sadly perpetually off-camera) scheming Count Petofi's plot to bulldoze the Eagle Hill Cemetery and turn the premises into a peep-show.
There was another one where Julia had cured Barnabas and he had to learn how to sleep in a bed again. He kept sliding out, while wearing the cutest bat-printed pyjamas. At some point Julia shows up in a Madonna outfit and performs a slinky dance to one of those early 90s sexaholic songs of hers. I literally nearly died laughing!
Ah, the memories.
Steve
This is some new form of torture, right, Steve? Oh I hope you're getting a great deal of pleasure out of taunting me with this description! ;)
I don't know how to post private messages, but I'd sure be interested in contacting someone from Cheep Productions to hear more about these.
Regards,
Maine Girl
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Maine Girl....in order to send Gothick a private IM do the following: Click on his underlined name on any of his posts....that will take you to a profile. Scroll down until you see "Send this member an IM" or something to that effect. When you click on that line it takes you to the Instant Message form with Gothick already inserted as the person you're IMing. Fill in a title, fill out the body of the IM, preview it....then send it. A copy of your IM will appear in your outbox. ;)
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Maine Girl....in order to send Gothick a private IM do the following: Click on his underlined name on any of his posts....that will take you to a profile. Scroll down until you see "Send this member an IM" or something to that effect. When you click on that line it takes you to the Instant Message form with Gothick already inserted as the person you're IMing. Fill in a title, fill out the body of the IM, preview it....then send it. A copy of your IM will appear in your outbox. ;)
Thank you so very much - it's very kind of you to take the time with a newbie. I will do that very thing.
Maine Girl :D
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(there's an address for DCP?)
You can find it in a Google search; they're in Los Angeles, CA. If you can't find it, IM me (click on the green page under my avatar / if it's bright green then I'm on the forum).
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Hey gang, for anyone who would like to know...I talked with Jim Pierson, and asked him, straight out, face to face:
Hey Jim, would it be alright if I made songvideos out of Dark Shadows material and traded it, or shared it, or gave it away?
He said: Sure, as long as you don't make a profit.
That is a direct quote.
He has given his permission.
I asked him about the issue of copyright, and people selling stuff that they'd made for a profit, and how he felt about it. His concern was that people would be making money on what Dan Curtis created. I asked him, well, how is that different than fanznies. He kinda smiled and said, you ever know anyone to make a profit off of those? No, I hadn't. : )
At any rate, Jim Pierson has given the okay to make and trade songvideos. And I read something on the back of some "vid movie making software" that talked about the user understanding the "Fair Copyright" laws, in that they could make...oh, how did they put it, diversified copies, or something like that, for their own personal enjoyment.
So I think we're in the clear here. : )
Regards,
Maine Girl
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Midnight suggested:
Well, perhaps not forever. Obviously you feel passionate about it, so why not see if you can affect a change in the policy DC Productions has concerning the distribution of DS music videos?
And I'm so pleased about my conversation with Jim Pierson. He works for you know who, so he should know if it's okay or not. And it is. I am planning my songvideos as we speak...
Regards,
Maine Girl
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MaineGirl,
You may want to check out this post and the posts that follow:
Re: DCP and Fan Music/Tribute videos, sites, etc.
Note that the poster was contacted, not by DCP Productions, but by an independent distributor.
Also, on p. 2 of that same topic, there's a very basic explanation of Fair Use of copyrighted material. Please beware of so-called legal advice that comes on the back side of video making software. I believe the only assurance can come from consulting a copyright attorney.
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MaineGirl,
You may want to check out this post and the posts that follow:
Re: DCP and Fan Music/Tribute videos, sites, etc.
Note that the poster was contacted, not by DCP Productions, but by an independent distributor.
Also, on p. 2 of that same topic, there's a very basic explanation of Fair Use of copyrighted material. Please beware of so-called legal advice that comes on the back side of video making software. I believe the only assurance can come from consulting a copyright attorney.
Dear Midnight,
Thank you for taking the time to point me in the direction of the other thread regarding this subject. I feel that your points are very valid, and that copyright laws need to be considered when borrowing from source material made by another.
In general, I went to the government website to to look this up, and it states that there is no clear way to determine whether something is fair use or infringement. The Fair Use laws seem very broad in their determination of what can and cannot be used. They listed the parameters, but even those seem open to interpretation. It seems like a very muddy subject, even for those writing the laws. And given the new technologies evolving every day, the law itself seems a bit behind the times becuase it seems to discuss mostly written material, although there is a reference to newsreels.
For example, one statement reads, that fair use is okay when "use(d) in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied." If I consider songvids a type of parody, then, under that definiton, songvids are okay. Another statement reads, you can use material for "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research." If I consider what I'm doing as scholarship, the same as I would by writing a story in a fanzine, then by making songvids, I am, in effect, studying the characters in order to understand them better, and to share my interpretation with other fans.
Obviously it would be better to err on the side of caution. But there are so many songvids for other out there, and so many makers of songvids, and so many ways to make songvids - so many fandoms enjoy and share them, I am never clear on why, in Dark Shadows fandom, a mature, venerable, and active fandom, that there seems to be this general kibosh on songvidding efforts. I encounter it a lot, even though I'm not really producing any of them. And when I talk to others who want to make songvids, they very sadly tell me, "They said I couldn't make them." I ask them who "they" are, and no one seems to be able to tell me.
I think the main point I'm making is that I went to Jim Pierson, who represents Dan Curtis Productions, and asked him, can I make songvideos and give them away. He said it was okay, so I have, in effect, gotten permission, which is one of the stipulations for fair use. Permission for everyone, actually, because it was an "okay" for fandom in general.
Perhaps the issue is the way that some songvids are distributed. Jim only said that he doesn't want people making a profit off of what they create. He didn't say anything about websites, or tapes, or discs - the issue for him was if money was made. That seemed to be a reasonable response to a reasonable request. I certainly won't be making any money making them, and probably won't be posting to any websites, since I don't have the werewithal for that either. And since vidding on computers takes speed, memory, and lots of space on your hard drive (all of which cost loads of money), I probably won't be maknig them unless I come into cash.
Everyone who knows me knows I'm passionate about this. Midnight said back in 2003 for me to go to Jim Pierson to check what the policy was, so I did. (I guess if I was more passionate, I would have checked with him back in 2003, but real life made its demands...) Given that, given the permission that has been granted from up above, I guess I was expecting a yippe-yahoo! from DS fandom and an onslaught of songvid making. I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked! [santa_wink]
Perhaps I ought to be spreading the word with as much passion as I discuss it, but you can't make people wanna make songvideos!
Best Regards,
Maine Girl