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Hi Everyone,
Please excuse me if this has already been brought up here in a different thread. I looked back over the current Calendar Events and don't believe I saw a subject suggesting it has been previously discussed, at least recently. (I'm ashamed to say I don't visit this wonderful DS site as often as I should. [ghost_embarrassed]) Anyway, if this has already been discussed, the moderators can feel free to delete or merge or point me in another direction. [ghost_wink]
After the Fest this year a rather large group of us visited Seaview Terrace in Newport. As always, I stood in awe before our majestic icon. I asked myself (with all due respect to Greystone, the Doheny Mansion in Beverly Hills) how any other house could represent our beloved Collinwood? I also began to wonder about the new DS film. Who will make the decision, who will choose, the mansion to play the part of Collinwood? Will it be an actual physical house or a CGI? Will it be a chintzy looking model or a mansion with palm trees in the background? Will there be a real effort to search for the "right" house?
For me, I would love to see Seaview be the representation of Collinwood. I imagine it would need some computer embellishing to make it look spooky. But, hey, why not keep this iconic image in our new DS film?
How do you all feel? Should we find something else or keep this familiar, majestic structure as the home of our favorite TV family?
If, as I suspect, DS fans are overwhelmingly in favor of using Seaview, perhaps we could convince Jim Pierson to pass this message along to Depp, Burton and company? If Johnny wants to keep something as simple as the "Barnabas spider bangs" perhaps he would want to keep the image of the mansion as it was on the original DS?
I enjoyed seeing many of you last week. I also very much missed you guys who couldn't attend! You were in my thoughts! [ghost_smiley]
SDP (Guy)
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The director and production designer will probably work together to decide on what their vision of Collinwood should look like, as well as what locations (if any) should be used.
Yeah, Seaview would be great but methinks that is largely up to the current owners.
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The current owners would LOVE to have their home be featured as Collinwood in the film! [ghost_grin]
SDP (Guy)
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Considering that the Depp/DS film will be shot in England, chances aren't very good that any house that's located in the US will be used for the exteriors of Collinwood. And as much as I love Seaview (and I LOVE it!), and as much as I love its use as Collinwood in the daytime series, with its architectural style leaning more toward French than English, it's really all wrong. It made more sense for Collinwood's original backstory in the show's first year (that Jeremiah built Collinwood for Josette). But once that backstory was tossed out during the 1795/76 storyline, the style of house that Seaview is was very weird indeed for an English family to have built. [ghost_undecided]
Actually, a year ago I was researching what types of houses in England might make for a good Collinwood if they decide to use an actual house. I never had a chance to get back to that. But by posting this topic, you've given me the incentive, so I should get my act together and get back to it sooner rather than later...
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I want to follow up on Guy’s remarks because I was part of the group that spent two days at our beloved Collinwood. Right now, the current owners of Seaview, the Carey family, are living in a wing of the mansion. For years, the house was a dorm for a girls’ school, but the lease is not being renewed. So for the most part, the mansion was empty and Mr. and Mrs. Carey gave us the run of the house. We spent all day Tuesday at the mansion before having dinner at the Black Pearl (Blue Whale), then went back that night for a party in Collinwood. Having spent all that time with the Careys, they expressed to us how much they would love the house to be used for Collinwood in the Depp movie. All of us greeted this with great enthusiasm.
I am certainly no expert on what is a French or English style house, but I think Guy’s point is that the Seaview mansion is now, and will always be, Collinwood in the hearts and minds of Dark Shadows fans. Therefore, we would like to start some kind of movement to get Depp and Burton to use it for the movie.
Frank Borzellieri
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I also would love to have Seaview as Collinwood once again in the new movie. The only thing is that we don't know how far into development the movie is at. They may have already picked a mansion and booked it for filming unless they will just use CGI for the exterior shots and then Seaview would then be perfect. I have a feeling that they will be filming parts of the movie in a real house but who really knows at this point. JP may know but he probably would not be able to share these details.
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I think a very different scenario for using Seaview would be if the movie proved such a success that a new t.v. version of Dark Shadows was authorized. Especially if the new series were on cable, a la True Blood, then the production company could plan on specific times to go shoot the exteriors at Seaview.
Keep in mind I'm not suggesting a new DS copy the style of TB, but rather that with blocks of twelve episodes or so it would be easier to plan the use of that location (as well as possibly giving a higher standard of show, simply because of a less frenzied production schedule).
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I would have to with Seaview also, be it a new series or movie, Seaview will always be Collinwood to me.
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I have to agree that any architectural discrepancy's that may exist are irrelevant to not only the majority of Dark Shadows fans, but movie goers in general. Seaview is, and will always be, Collinwood for me and thousands of other fans. Even though most of the filming will take place abroad, there is no reason they can't spend a couple weeks doing location shooting in Newport.
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I wish they would use Seaview, as well. It'll be interesting to see what they decide. With regard to Tim's history of films he's done, my understanding is that both Sleepy Hollow and Sweeney Todd were done ENTIRELY on a soundstage at Pinewood Studios in/near London (Tim's preferred studio). Even houses, shops, streets, etc. were all recreated in the studio. Sleepy Hollow was (mostly) rural and Sweeney Todd was urban, so I would envision the look to more closely resemble Sleepy Hollow. However, I do think there were some location shots done for Charlie And The Chocolate Factory, and I know that some were done for Alice In Wonderland. So doing some location shooting doesn't seem out of the question. The other big question is if they intend to set the film in Maine (it'd be a darn crime if they didn't!!) and in that case, I would expect them to do at least some filming at/near the ocean, and I don't think that can be done in a studio! So, here's hoping.
I'm so glad that the Seaview owners are amenable to the idea, now all we have to do is convince Johnny, Tim, and everyone else involved in the film. If someone wouldn't mind giving me Johnny's phone number, I'd be glad to make a phone call [ghost_wink] [ghost_wink] [ghost_wink]
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Well, as I said, I love Seaview. I always have since first laying eyes on it - and I probably always will - and my love goes way beyond the house's association with DS. And I wish the proposal great good luck. But I won't be holding out much hope. [ghost_sad] (For one, unless shots of the actual area were used sparingly and judiciously in the film, a sad reality is that the sort of CGI embellishment the location would need would go way beyond simply needing to make it look spooky.) But I'd love to be proved wrong, though. [ghost_wink]
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If I remember right, on the commentary track for Sleepy Hollow they say that were some location shots done for it. The question is how do we get word to Tim And Johnny?
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The other thing to keep in mind is.... what sort of market is there for this film? The money that we can put in the production company's wallets by going to the movies to see this film and getting others to go and see this film is what the production companies/distributors care about most.
How VOCAL "Dark Shadows" fans are about how BADLY they expect Seaview to be in this film is much more a powerful tool than some of you might think. If we are vocal here, and on the Internet Movie Database (IMDB.COM) and other areas that those who keep the Depps and Burtons informed as to what might "DRAW audiences in" then we might be able to make it happen. The key is to be extremely vocal on as many levels as possible and keep spreading the word.
We have to convince those that produce the films that filming at this house is what is going to make the audiences pay more money at the box office and that it will sell film merchandising. For example: "I'm so excited Seaview is the Collinwood in the film, I think I will buy that t-shirt after all....".
That is the only way to communicate with such entities. That's the only way they'll really listen, most likely.
What other avenues are there for the word to be spread on-line and elsewhere? What other channels?
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I don't think of myself as a good writer but if someone wants to write an on line petition I would be more than happy to sign it. To get the ball rolling here's a couple of places to start.
http://www.ipetitions.com/start-petition/
http://www.petitiononline.com/
http://www.petitionspot.com/
If someone, anyone would write one, we could post links and every DS site that we can find and on our "MySpace", "Facebook", and other pages then send them to Warner Brothers, Johnny Depp, and Tim Burton, or at least their web-sites.
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It is a wonderful idea I think, to get a petition going, to try and persuade the powers that be in making this new D/S movie, to use Seaview Terrace for filming. If we can just manage to get one petition going, and have hundreds of the fans sign it, get it sent to the right person, it might be considered. After all, I would say that this is the time to do it, while such a location has perhaps not been decided on as yet. I had read somewhere that Tim Burton wanted to try and make it as much like the old TV series as possible, and only this location would give it that authenticity. I don't think hard-core fans of the original series would be too upset if the house did not meet the style requirements historically. There was much imagination and overlooking of details in the original series! That was part of it's charm. One of the reasons I don't like remakes is that very often they do not resemble the original at all. To me, there's 'nothing like the real thing baby', but of course any version would be welcomed to bring Dark Shadows back into the mainstream of public awareness. And, I am sure that any movie that Johnny Depp would star in would be a hit. That is one great factor in our favor. Then I will not have to keep explaining to so many people 'what's Dark Shadows?' when I'm going to the festivals each year! I hope the movie really does get made next year--it has been put off long enough-- and that Seaview Terrace will be the filming location. I've heard from the fans that just attended the tour/party at the mansion, that the Carey's are very nice people, what a great tribute to them and the show, if the movie would be filmed there! ~~Rick H.
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Thanks to Selby D. Pierson for posting this. Speaking as one of the lucky people who had the pleasure of visiting the house last week, it would be wonderful if we could get a campaign together to at least TRY and get it used.
A few thoughts occurred to me in reading everyone's posts. Seriously dating myself as a Fanosaur here, but I do remember the first Save Star Trek! campaign, and most of the basic ground rules back then still apply.
Don't have my copy of Star Trek Lives! to hand at the moment to recap the dos and don'ts, but one thing that did strike me was the mention of the petition sites. Keep in mind that ANY petition, no matter HOW many signatures it has, is never counted as more than ONE letter. When I inquired of people involved in other campaigns, such as the tobasco campaign for Roswell,and those for other shows in recent years, they confirmed that this has not changed.
The IDEAL would be to get the names of executives in decision making positions regarding the DS project. Email addresses would be great, IF they can be obtained; snailmail still works too, BTW. If the latter, make sure you have a name, title and address. Seems silly to point this out here, but many other DS venues are not as courteous and savvy of how things are done in the business world, so I have to say, please point out basics when you alert other groups and boards, using your judgement on the emotional maturity of the posters, not to mention the presence of trolls who would write nasty letters just to make trouble.
Basics:
Be respectful and courteous.
Bring out points about how the use of the house would build interest (read $$$$ in pocket).
Keep it short and concise.
IF using Snailmail, do NOT write "Dark Shadows" or Johnny Depp ANYWHERE on the envelope (unless by some miracle someone actually has an address for JD, and in that case I think they'd know for SURE not to share it). Putting either of those on the envelope is likely to get it routed to the fanmail department, who probably wouldn't know what to do with the letter.
DON'T use a form letter
DON'T reuse the same letter template without changing it. They can figure out its the same person or group of people, which would put a monkey wrench in them taking it seriously.
Thats all I remember at this hour.
The suggestions about professional sites such as IMDB would also be good. For most upcoming projects, studios or production companies have people cruising boards to get a handle on stuff like fan reaction, fan interest etc. Actors and production people have also been known to lurk on boards connected to projects to scope out the fans, so keep that in mind when figuring out your individual approach on how to spread the word.
Jeannie
Oh, MB, if you do get the time to do your hunt for Collinwood candidates in England, you might want to check out Blenheim Palace. Large, multiwinged imposing and spectacular, it's one of my favorite candidates.
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It would definitely be awesome to have Seaview used as Collinwood in the new movie! I would think Johnny Depp would like that idea too, since he's such a big fan of DS. But, again, since they're filming it in England, I don't know how realistic of an idea this is. I also totally agree with Pansity's cautions and guidlelines as to how to approach TPTB about the idea.
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If I remember right, on the commentary track for Sleepy Hollow they say that were some location shots done for it.
Really? I stand corrected, then. I thought sure I remembered them speaking about how they built that entire town, and even had the horse and carriages running around in circles on this soundstage. I guess that if there were location shots, too, I missed that part [ghost_embarrassed] Well, there's even more hope, then!
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A big thanks to Selby D. Pierson for getting this started. There are some great posts in this thread. I am a huge Seaview fan and never tire of visiting the mansion. In my opinion the image of Seaview is the image of Dark Shadows! Count me in on a petition. Also, if someone could post an address I will be glad to write to whoever.
Thanks again,
John(in NC)
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A quick reply to what one of you above commenting on how Joshua Collins/ and or Jeremiah Collins would not have chosen to build a house in the French Renaissance style.... well aside from what they said in the beginning of series, about Jeremiah building it for his French/Martinician wife Josette, in the 1795 flashback Joshua Collins talked about how he hates tea because it reminds him of the British(which he despises) because of his experience with the Revolutionary War(and life before that as well). So what would have stopped Joshua Collins from continuing to be an American rebel and build a French style house?
On a separate note, Seaview resembles a haunted castle. In the subconscious of the fans it is the "haunted castle" in which ghosts, other supernatural creatures and Barnabas a sort of "Dracula" inhabit or visit.
For fans it is also "home", it is after all, Collinwood.
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Well, actually, Seaview leans more towards the French Eclectic style, which didn't come into vogue until 1920 - not surprising since it was built in the 1920s. Though the Collinses were often way ahead of their time. [ghost_wink]
The one thing Seaview does have going for it is that French Eclectic incorporates the half-timbering of and the materials used in the Tudor style, which to my mind would make for a more appropriate Collinwood.
The interesting thing will be to see what the backstory of Collinwood will be in the film. As I've said before, I loved how the Collinwood of the '91 series was originally built in England, then disassembled, shipped stone by stone to Collinsport, and then reassembled. And with that sort of history, it wouldn't be at all odd to use a shooting location in England.
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I love that story too MB! I for one am against Seaview being used as Collinwood! I will pass. To everything a time and a season! I want something fresh! Please don't hurl stones at me!
T
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I for one am against Seaview being used as Collinwood! I will pass. To everything a time and a season! I want something fresh! Please don't hurl stones at me!
Heaven forbid stone throwing. I was thinking more along the lines of using bricks, they do more damage. [ghost_wink] [ghost_cheesy]
Seriously, although a vast majority of the fans would disagree, you're certainly entitled to your opinion Taeylor, and I will defend you on that front, however wrong you may appear. [ghost_grin] [ghost_grin]
p.s. Anna says HI [ghost_wink]
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Do you want to throw the bricks or maybe use them to wall up something....so somebody?
Just joking.
Maybe someone from a parallel time went into the future, got the idea for the Seaview, then went back in time, and gave the Collins family the idea for it.
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Imagine if they had gone to the sixties and returned, building a Collinwood with shag lime-green carpeting and faux wood panelling. And a grand staircase that looked like the one from the Brady House.
Gerard
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Now that real scary! [ghost_cheesy]
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And don't forget, Borgosi, instead of candelabras, there would be lava lamps blurping everywhere!
Gerard
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And black lights with posters printed with hi-glow paint.
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I am fine with being in the minority! Side Note: My points jumped like ten points. It's the little things that make me happy!
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Yo T, I'm glad your happy but maybe you should give Sea View another thought. Just a thought...
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It really doesn't matter to me. Using the ironic house would be fine but I'm also fine with another suitable house being used for the film.
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Hi Again,
I was speaking to Midnite yesterday and we discussed these posts. I had thought this was a dead thread because I was no longer getting notifications of replies. I see people are still discussing.
My original post might have been misleading. I simply wanted to know what each of you felt in his/her heart as to the possibility of having the Depp DS film's Collinwood represented by the same house that represented it in the original show. I didn't count on people debating how much computer embellishment it would take to make it acceptable for a Tim Burton film or the historical accuracy of the style of Seaview Terrace or how likely it would be for the film's creators to use Seaview Terrace.
I'd just like to know, how you folks feel if each of you could make the choice yourself. My hope would be an overwhelming majority would go for the original house. If so, it could then be pointed out to the liaison between Dan Curtis Productions and the film's creators (most likely Jim Pierson) that he should, at the very least, make Mr. Burton and Mr. Depp aware that most of the die-hard fans would like the film's image of the house (even if it has to be completely computer generated) be Seaview Terrace. Another hope progressing from this point would be that Mr. Depp, being a fan of the show himself, would throw his support behind the idea, possibly even visiting Seaview Terrace and (wishful thinking, I know) help in its restoration.
So again, if you were given the permission to make the choice of which house would represent Collinwood, which house would your heart tell you to choose?
Thanks,
SDP
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Pulling out the emotional heartstring card, eh. [ghost_grin] Well, as I said, I love Seaview on so many levels. From its beautiful (and award winning) architectural design to the feeling I still get whenever I see it again, even in its current decrepit state - the exact same feeling that I experienced as a 13-year-old upon first locating the house back when DS was still on the air. But as much of an emotional touchstone as the house is for me, I would still rather see a different house used in the Depp/DS film.
I can certainly relate to the feeling that for many fans Seaview IS Collinwood and no other house will really be Collinwood to them. I originally felt that way about Lyndhurst. As architecturally outstanding as it is, for the longest time I never fully accepted it as Collinwood. But that had more to do with the notion I'd had in my head that I didn't see Lyndhurst as the type of house that could have the closed off wings that were so much a part of the original daytime DS. But that wasn't fair to Lyndhurst because hoDS and NoDS aren't the original series and their Collinwood shouldn't be judged by what Collinwood is like in the original series because those films are completely separate from the original series. Interestingly, though, after seeing photos of Greystone, after seeing how Greystone was "enhanced" for the '91 series, and particularly after learning the completely different backstory of Collinwood, I instantly accepted it as Collinwood. I suppose for me acceptance is all about separating the original series from any and all other versions of DS - and having a different house be Collinwood goes a long way in helping that separation. Seaview as Collinwood is an icon I will always lovingly associate with the original series. But I don't really want to associate Seaview with other versions of DS because they aren't the original version of DS, nor should they be expected to be. They should be allowed to stand completely on their own.
Sorry. That's just the way I feel. [ghost_smiley]
And as for choosing with one's heart, well, often times our hearts will lead us down paths that we shouldn't go, paths that would be best for us to avoid. The heart isn't the most reliable or objective decision making organ. [ghost_wink]
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I believe that using one of the iconic sites such as Collinwood in this movie will make it all the harder for some fans to fully realize this DS movie is not going to be the one they grew up watching or their folks watched as teens.
Nancy
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Once again, I want to respond to Guy’s desire to have Seaview used as Collinwood in the Depp/Burton movie. This entire discussion began when a group of us went on a Dark Shadows road trip after the festival to Norwalk, Essex and finally Newport. We stayed two days both inside and on the grounds of Seaview at the invitation and blessing of the owners, the Carey family. I had been to Seaview in 2003, but only on the outside. A handful of people were making their first trip. Needless to say, the consensus was that it is a big thrill to walk the grounds, as well as the halls, stairways, corridors, and even the tower room of Collinwood.
When the Carey family said they would love to have the mansion used in the Depp movie, we began discussing some sort of movement to get Depp/Burton to use Seaview. This can be done most effectively if there is a huge groundswell of support for Seaview.
I can only reiterate my own view, which is that Seaview will always be Collinwood, more than Lyndhurst, and certainly much more than Greystone. What makes any kind of remake of Dark Shadows appealing is its connection to the original series, in whatever forms that may take. Seaview is the only star that appeared in every episode (save the first one, I believe). There is no doubt that the emotional attachment to Seaview is the main factor. To me, all other considerations, such as clean up and computer enhancements, are purely technical, with no bearing on my wish to have the true Collinwood used in the movie.
Frank
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Knowing a little of Tim Burton's sensibility, I don't think the original Collinwood would be anywhere near creepy or crazy enough to serve as the mansion in the new movie.
My thoughts about how "Collinwood" will look in Depp Shadows start out with the Disneyland Haunted Mansion *on acid*, and veer radically into superphantasmagoric baroque insanity from there.
I also seem to recall Burton's sense of horror vacui as a stylist resulting in cluttered, manicky kinds of sets and interiors.
As far as this fan is concerned, there's no danger whatsoever in confusing the Depp/Burton project with the classic series.
G.
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I believe that using one of the iconic sites such as Collinwood in this movie will make it all the harder for some fans to fully realize this DS movie is not going to be the one they grew up watching or their folks watched as teens.
"Ironically", I have to disagree with you. [ghost_wink] However, I would be interested in your thoughts as to why "some fans" (as vague as that is) would have a hard time distinguishing a 2010-2011 Theatrical film with a late 1960's early 1970's television soap opera?
[ghost_smiley] [ghost_smiley] Thanks in advance Nancy [ghost_smiley] [ghost_smiley] [ghost_smiley]
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I can't speak for Nancy, and I could be way off, but here's what I think she meant. Many original fans always seem to compare every succeeding version of DS to the original. I suppose that might only be natural. But sometimes it gets in the way. It's not that anyone would confuse a new film done today with the series done back in the '60s and '70s - it's that watching a new version of DS that featured Seaview would be frequently reminding original fans of the original show, and instead of sitting back and totally immersing themselves in the new version and its world, they would be taken outside that world by seeing Seaview, which in turn could prove even more detrimental to allowing the Depp/DS film to completely stand on its own and in its own DS universe. Not that that would be a factor for all original DS fans - but even just going by the posts on the forum that have been made through the years regarding the newer versions of DS, it would be for many. (The same holds true for me when it comes to using the original stars in newer versions of DS. I prefer not to see them used - at least not until those versions have already firmly established their own identities and universes.)
Changing reels entirely:
Needless to say, the consensus was that it is a big thrill to walk the grounds, as well as the halls, stairways, corridors, and even the tower room of Collinwood.
Thanks to a member of the cleaning staff that I had befriended back in '97, Midnite and I and John_in_NC had the pleasure of seeing the tower room back in '01 just after it had been remodeled for use as a dorm room. Photos of the room were posted in the Members' Archive - but since that section isn't currently open, here are two:
(http://www.dsboards.com/circleroom/Tower1.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/circleroom/Tower2.jpg)
Too bad you didn't get to see it before it was remodeled - back when it was used strictly for storage - and the rumors were that it was haunted. [ghost_wink] It was amazingly creepy looking back then.
Seaview is the only star that appeared in every episode (save the first one, I believe).
Seaview was definitely in the first ep. Who can forget the great shot of the crescent moon shining over the house?
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There is only one Collinwood and it is Seaview. It would, for me, contect the old and the new. If the Collins family lived on after the end of the first series they would still live in Collinwood.
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I vote for Seaview. [ghost_smiley]
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She got it! Thank you, Mary!
SDP
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If you merely wanted a yes/no/i don't know answer, then you should have set up the question as a poll. [ghost_wink] So I'll do that for you. [ghost_smiley]
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MB's pix above....
This is where I'll be sleeping this coming Halloween!!!
SDP
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You want to sleep in a room that's supposedly haunted? Or is the possibility that it's haunted that's the attraction? [ghost_wink]
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I'd sleep in it haunted or not and I'll be close enough to know if it is, this Halloween. [ghost_grin]
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I'd sleep in it haunted or not and I'll be close enough to know if it is, this Halloween. [ghost_grin]
I was actually disappointed in the room compared to ones on the second floor - or even others on the third floor. Though, of course, it was never intended to be used as bedroom - despite the fact that we've often seen its TV show counterpart used that way for some poor, insane Collins family members in RT as well as PT. [ghost_grin]
If I was to pick a room in the tower, I'd pick the second floor room (David's room in the TV show) to sleep in. Besides having a beautifully designed archway entrance:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/arch.jpg)
two beautiful stained glass windows (one above and):
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/stained.jpg)
and a beautiful fireplace:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/fireplace.jpg)
it has a beautiful view:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/view.jpg)
Unless one stands on a tall ladder, or the furniture, or hangs from the ceiling fan, one can't even see out the tower room windows because they're too high to the ceiling. [ghost_sad]
And just for the record, I didn't take the photos of the tower room that are displayed in reply #37 - Midnite did. [ghost_smiley] All the above photos are mine, however. [ghost_wink]
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These photos are gorgeous! Thanks for taking them and posting them here!
Nancy
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She got it! Thank you, Mary!
You're welcome, SDP -- LOL! I also voted in the poll. [ghost_smiley]
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Hi MB,
Hey, those ARE great photos! Can you tell us what year they were taken? The reason I ask is that the Careys are looking for proof of the damage done to the house and photos such as these might help. An example might be a stained glass window that is no longer in as good a condition as in these photos. I don't know, however, if the Careys have much legal recourse as they have endured years of seeing their house ruined by the students and their complaints to the college seemed to fall on deaf ears. They may have waited too long.
SDP
PS I am open to any type of encounter with the spirit world inside this house! I am mostly a skeptic but hope to experience something which I can't explain. I have had one such incident in my life which piqued my curiosity and am looking for more of them! [ghost_huh]
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http://www.theshadowlands.net/places/rhodeisland.htm
Go down to Newport then go down to the 8 more to Newport - Salve Regina University - Carey Mansion. It says "supposedly a nun hung herself. The room is boarded up and every month a priest has to come in and bless the house."
I think it's a work of ficton, maybe even written by a DS fan but who knows.
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As others can also say with certainty, there are no boarded up rooms in the house. [ghost_wink] Well, unless perhaps they're in the basement. I've never bothered to go down there. Although, maybe someone should because it might have been fun to look for [spoiler]Paul Stoddard's "body." [ghost_grin][/spoiler]
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I think it used to be boarded up (Greg's linked article has been around for some time) as the first time we had access to the tower room I remember being unable to get inside. There was a small slit in the door (or whatever) and we tried to peer inside but couldn't see too much. This creeped us out a bit and our imaginations filled the tower room with all sorts of horrors! I remember the person there in charge of the mansion for the college said students claim to hear strange noises coming from the room. I didn't hear about the hanged nun until several years later. [ghost_shocked]
While we haven't discussed going down to the basement, we are possibly going to explore the three attics! [ghost_grin] I don't recall anyone ever mentioning an attic for Collinwood but I remember David and Amy in the attic of the Old House during the Leviathan storyline.
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Maybe they could re-create Seaview on a soundstage if they are going to film in London.
What house was used in the 2004 pilot?
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Greystone was Collinwood.
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the Careys are looking for proof of the damage done to the house and photos such as these might help. An example might be a stained glass window that is no longer in as good a condition as in these photos.
I don't know if any of my photos actually show areas/things that have since been damaged. But I'll check when I get a chance.
It's a shame that the Careys and/or their lawyer didn't think to put something like a compensation for damages clause in their lease agreement contract with Salve. But live and learn...
I think it used to be boarded up (Greg's linked article has been around for some time) as the first time we had access to the tower room I remember being unable to get inside. There was a small slit in the door (or whatever) and we tried to peer inside but couldn't see too much. This creeped us out a bit and our imaginations filled the tower room with all sorts of horrors!
[b003] And maybe at one time the entrance to the tower room was boarded up, but if so, it hasn't been like for quite some time. I remember being in that part of the house on at least two occasions that were at least a few years before that Web site was put up. The first time the door to the room was padlocked, but a lot of the stuff inside (ladders, folding tables, folding chairs, etc.) was visible through the slit in the door that you refer to - though the slit was about a half an inch wide that day. But a few years later I was there when some workmen were doing some repairs to some of the third floor's rooms, and the door was wide open. That's when I got a good look around. Though there wasn't much to see (except those ladders, folding tables, folding chairs, etc.). Nothing even worth taking any photos of. [ghost_sad]
I remember the person there in charge of the mansion for the college said students claim to hear strange noises coming from the room.
Perhaps it was just things settling (like the ladders, folding tables, folding chairs, etc). [ghost_grin] And if there was anything to those stories about the room being haunted, maybe they held an exorcism before they remodled because I doubt Salve would have stuck students in a room that was potentially unsafe for them to stay in. Although, maybe that's the room they put the troublemakers to get rid of them. [ghost_cheesy]
That being said, though, there are definitely strange sounds in the house. Back in August of '99 I was there completely alone for quite a few hours (it's a long story not worth going into) and I heard what sounded like furniture being moved around or something being dragged along the floor in the hall above and around the foyer. As he was leaving the building for the day, the head of Salve's music department specifically told me that I was going to be the only person left there and that no students would be moving in yet (so I was to make sure that I locked the door if I decided to leave - I was waiting for some friends to arrive). Curiosity got the better of me, so I went up to the second floor to look around and even called out a few times - but no one was there - and there wasn't a sound from anywhere in the house while I was up there. So, I went back downstairs. Who knows what had been going on? [idontknow]
While we haven't discussed going down to the basement, we are possibly going to explore the three attics! [ghost_grin]
Hmmm - that might be interesting. It would be really interesting if there were still things stored up there from the time that the house was the Bradley's private residence. Unfortunately back in the '40s their daughter had to sell off everything at auction to pay back taxes - but maybe something remains. Let's just hope the only things up there aren't desks and black boards from when the house has been used as a school.
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Maybe they could re-create Seaview on a soundstage if they are going to film in London.
Hopefully they'd recreate the actual interiors rather than reimagine the original sets of the daytime show. At the time that the Bradleys lived there, the drawing room was a truly spectacular room:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/drawing.jpg)
Sadly, it looks nothing like that anymore. [ghost_sad]
As has been posted before, the actual foyer looks nothing like the DS set, but in some ways it's a lot more interesting:
The actual entryway:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/entrance.jpg)
The wall, balcony, and chandelier above the actual entrance to the drawing room:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/above.jpg)
And a shot of the real stained glass window taken through one of the halls off of the foyer:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/arch2.jpg)
Hopefully now that Salve has been tossed out, all their clutter has or soon will be removed...
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Wonderful pictures! Thanks! I hadn't heard about Salve being thrown out - I guess in my dreams, Depp's production team forks out the money to fix what needs to be fixed at Seaview for the movie. I know.. not practical probably. But I had heard rumors many years ago about parts of the property falling into disrepair and I hated hearing that. It must be incredibly expensive to repair it. I absolutely would love for some of the original Collinwood to be used in Depp's movie, particularly the outside shots that were used in the show. So now I guess my vote is no longer a secret [ghost_wink]
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I too was hoping, with Depp being a fan of the original show, that he would show an interest in the original Collinwood. The current owners are in the process of extending an invitation to him. Who knows what might happen? [ghost_mellow]
SDP
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one of the reasons that the films didn't "say" dark shadows to me is that they weren't filmed at seaview.
the other location just didn't feel like collinwood.
NODS especially,despite starring several d.s. actors,could have easily been just another early 1970's horror film.without frid and stalwarts like bennett,edmonds,scott and so forth not enough of the d.s. atmosphere was captured.kate jackson in particular wasn't on the program long enough to carry a film centered on it.there was something of a generic quality to it.
ditto the california sun-drenched location for the 1991 series.NOT collinwood for me.
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Thank you MB and to the other cousins for posting the fantastic photographs of the interior of Seaview-a place I will unlikely ever get the chance to see the insides of. I would have to say that the sets used on the original series were eloquent for its time but now would look cheesy so I hope it won't be duplicated for the movie. The Seaview interiors will hopefully be duplicated.
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Two things that could be impediments to using Seaview (at least to doing any sort of location shooting there) is that it might force an increase in the budget and more than likely it would require a completely different crew as most states require crews to be hired from from within the state to work on films shot in their states. I'm pretty certain that the latter is the case with RI. Ultimately, it may come down to a case that even though they might like to use Seaview, it may just be cheaper and less complicated to base the whole production in England.
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I was initially thinking "yes, Seaview should be used." Then, partly based on some of the comments here and partly just giving it second thoughts, I started to be less sure it would be the right decision. In a way, it might tie the film too much to the show, and as much as I love the show, we don't want the film to too closely resemble the show- we wouldn't want it to have the same production values, for instance. I mean, it' never be the same, and trying too hard might just seem strange. I also feel that the inside sets should not try to mimic the show, because that might come off as cheesy. I'd rather it just have sets that feel close in tone but not try to be identical. I feel like I'm waffling [ghost_smiley] Anyway, I voted "I don't know" and I see that the poll is actually pretty close. It's interesting to look at it from both sides.
Cathy
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NODS especially,despite starring several d.s. actors,could have easily been just another early 1970's horror film.without frid and stalwarts like bennett,edmonds,scott and so forth not enough of the d.s. atmosphere was captured.kate jackson in particular wasn't on the program long enough to carry a film centered on it.
It's funny because one of the many reasons I and a lot of other fans don't like hoDS is that it may have starred the DS "stalwarts" but their characters were mere pretenders and not the same as their counterparts on the daytime show. Yet one of the main reasons I and others accept and enjoy NoDS so much more is that the actors weren't playing their daytime DS characters but completely different people, so there was little opportunity for comparison to get in the way. And I actually think Jackson carried the film beautifully (many reviews also agree) - and she had already been appearing on the favorites polls in the various daytime magazines. But, of course, all of that is/has been a discussion for/in an entirely different type of topic...
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While I have the greatest respect for the opinions of the posters on this board, I am absolutely flabbergasted at the results of this poll so far. To me, Seaview is like an original series actor that was involved in every storyline, on everyday, and truly defined the world of DS, yet hasn't aged all that much since the original run. Of course we all have our own opinions.. but I guess I thought a lot more fans of the original series would want a Seaview presence in the new movie. An additional thought is that it might do some good for Seaview from a monetary basis. I would love to see the Careys be compensated for the use of the mansion. It pains me to think that this grand old house is in need of repairs. I wish I was in a position to contribute to its repair, but I think that Infinitum-Nihil is in a much better position financially to pay for the use.
Anyhow, I thought I would make a case for it as I feel quite strongly about it, and even more so since I originally posted and have had time to think it through.
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i didn't say i didn't enjoy NODS.i got a kick out of it in a b-movie kind of way.
just that the alternate location(not seaview)and certain castings gave the film a mood that wasn't dark shadows to me.
it has it's charms but like i said could easily have been called something else.it's not remotely tied into the series mythology.that's not a criticism and it doesn't mean it's not good but it's true.
as for kate jackson i guess because i'm not a huge fan of the 1840 storylines(or the last eight months of the program in general)she doesn't resonate with me the way the rest of the cast does.
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I just think that if every family member passed away to leave their children the house, the children of David Collins, the house would be the same house. Every family member would be different, their stories would be different, but the house would remain. That's what happens with a family house, the people change but the house stays the same. It's what connects the past to the future. Without a connection to the old a new Dark Shadows could just as well be call Twilight.
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I am absolutely flabbergasted at the results of this poll so far. ... but I guess I thought a lot more fans of the original series would want a Seaview presence in the new movie. ...
Anyhow, I thought I would make a case for it as I feel quite strongly about it, and even more so since I originally posted and have had time to think it through.
I can't say that the results have been surprising me at all. I suspect the people who would rather not see Seaview used feel just as strongly as those who would like to see it used in some fashion. As madscntst said, there are really good points for both arguments, which is probably why the I don't know vote is practically as strong at this point as the Yes and No votes.
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I just think that if every family member passed away to leave their children the house, the children of David Collins, the house would be the same house.
That's an excellent point and one I hadn't thought of - it would be like handing off the baton to a new generation instead of cutting the tie.
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That's an excellent point and one I hadn't thought of - it would be like handing off the baton to a new generation instead of cutting the tie.
That might actually work to some degree if the Depp/DS was a sequel to the daytime DS - but it's not - it's a full-out reimagining. And, certainly, passing a baton would resonate with us - but those in most of the target audience will in all likelihood have no attachment to Seaview as Collinwood. As I recently remarked in the Depp/DS topic on Current Talk '09 II, the film will be mostly attempting to createa whole new fanbase for DS - one whose main exposure to DS will be the film and not any previous versions. They'll hope we'll like the film - but we alone aren't a significant enough group to either make or break the film at the box office.
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MB I certainly understand your concern - nobody wants a movie that can't be viewed and enjoyed all on its own. New viewers shouldn't have to feel left out because they've never seen DS before. The use of Seaview, IMHO is a win-win. It would provide that tie for the original fans, yet not be an impediment to new viewers. I can't help but think that the image of Seaview as Collinwood might even evoke memories that have been long-lost for some potential fans who've basically been out of touch since the original went off the air. I can't name how many times I've seen remarks from people who were very excited to have rediscovered DS after all this time. That can't be a bad thing for the box office, although you could argue with some success that the numbers may not be significant.. but frankly, the responses I tend to see aren't generally "oh yeah.. I kind of remember that series" they end up being "Wow, I LOVED that as a kid! It was the greatest!" That sort of enthusiasm helps garner additional viewers, people who never saw the series before but are impressed by the passion some still hold for a series that has been off the air for so long.
JMHO of course.
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i didn't say i didn't enjoy NODS.i got a kick out of it in a b-movie kind of way.
just that the alternate location(not seaview)and certain castings gave the film a mood that wasn't dark shadows to me.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I thought you didn't enjoy NoDS - only that there are a lot of fans who do accept that film as DS, much more so than they accept hoDS, even considering that the more established DS actors appeared in hoDS but not in NoDS. It's also interesting that for many fans NoDS' atmosphere/mood is actually more DS than hoDS could hope to be. But as I said, getting any more into that sort of a debate is probably best done in another topic, so if anyone would care to continue the discussion further, it would probably be best to start a topic about it rather than continue it here because any issues regarding the movies other than the use of Lyndhurst as Collinwood is pretty much OT in this topic. [ghost_smiley] And even that is pretty much OT for this topic unless it's tied in some way to Seaview's use in the daytime series. [ghost_wink]
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Getting back on topic, for me personally one of the things I really look forward to learning whenever a new version of DS comes about is what new house will be used as Collinwood. I like to see how not only the stories will be reimagined, but how Collinwood will be as well. And, considering how the poll is playing out, it would seem that I'm not alone in that. It's not that I don't have a love for and a sentimental attachment to Seaview. I most definitely do. It's just that I don't see where using it in the Depp/DS film would make much difference with anyone other than us fans of the original series. And not to belabor the point, but we're not going to be the film's target audience. And even with us fans, the results of the poll would seem to be telling us that there is no clear cut yeh or neh opinion - well, certainly not one within the corner of DS fandom that is this forum. [ghost_smiley]
I suppose what it all comes down to for me is that along with a completely new cast and a new take on the story (hopefully stories), to keep everything fresh and new, I'd like to see a new Collinwood to set it all in. [ghost_wink]
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I agree with you, MB. Fans of the original series are not the target audience for several reasons.
nancy
And not to belabor the point, but we're not going to be the film's target audience. And even with us fans, the results of the poll would seem to be telling us that there is no clear cut yeh or neh opinion - well, certainly not one within the corner of DS fandom that is this forum. [ghost_smiley]
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I certainly agree that old fans of the original series are not the target audience (even though Johnny Depp is one). So I will concede that point. Let's forget that we ever existed.
The original Collinwood, Seaview Terrace, worked wonderfully well for the original show. Why is it that it would not work for a new generation as well? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I am honestly trying to understand the opposing viewpoint because I just don't. If what is wanted is an "all new reimagined" story with no ties to the past, why call it "Dark Shadows" at all? Why have Barnabas Collins in it at all? I know that with the talent of Johnny Depp, Tim Burton and John August, they could come up with a wonderful gothic tale that isn't called "Dark Shadows" and we could all enjoy it.
All along we've been told that this movie must stay true to the original concept. That was the agreement Dan Curtis made with Johnny Depp's production company. It would be much easier to do that with the most central figure ever in the show being transitioned to the new movie - Collinwood itself. Much of the magic of the original was due to that magnificent house.
Anyhow, I know we all feel strongly about our specific points and everybody's opinion is equally justified and valid (even though those not agreeing with me are inevitably wrong [ghost_wink]. I'm going to have to agree to disagree with those opposing the use of Seaview in the new movie and continue to hope that if we don't see the original we at least get to see a reasonable facsimile.
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Well, for one, as I previously stated back in reply #32:
I suppose for me acceptance is all about separating the original series from any and all other versions of DS - and having a different house be Collinwood goes a long way in helping that separation. Seaview as Collinwood is an icon I will always lovingly associate with the original series. But I don't really want to associate Seaview with other versions of DS because they aren't the original version of DS, nor should they be expected to be. They should be allowed to stand completely on their own.
For me it really all comes down to that last point: all versions of DS should be allowed to stand completely on their own - which is the main reason when we had the Watching Project for the '91 series, we treated it as if the original series didn't exist. However, that doesn't make them any less DS. At least not for me or many of the other fans who, say, love the '91 series. I'm often fond of quoting this remark from the Creature-corner Web site regarding remakes and reimaginings in general:"They can honour the original and stand alone as solid entertainment at the same time."
All along we've been told that this movie must stay true to the original concept. That was the agreement Dan Curtis made with Johnny Depp's production company.
I don't recall ever having heard that that was a stipulation of the rights agreement Depp made with DC's estate. But be that as it may, they can easily stay true to the original concept of DS without ever using the exact same storylines, or the exact same house, or even using Barnabas (as shocking as many might find that last possibility). DS is more than any one of those things, or even all of them, which is one of the reasons why I have no problem accepting, say, NoDS as DS.
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I'm chiming in as a latecomer to this discussion because I don't get here as often as I should. But I had the pleasure of being among those who, after the fest, journeyed to Newport, R.I. and visited Seaview/the Carey Mansion otherwise known as our "Collinwood."
I've read tons of responses here and I still do not understand why people would pick "no." That's one reason (of MANY) that I didn't like the original HODS. Come on, people, you used the WRONG HOUSE! Collinwood is Seaview/the Carey Mansion is Collinwood.
And what would be cool, especially for those who want the house to be "different," it WOULD be different. You wouldn't have the same exact foyer and the same exact drawing room if they used the inside as well as the outside. Or actually SHOW the front side of the house with the covered drive. LOTS of folks don't know that side of the house, cause they're used to looking at the back of the house.
No question for me. YES. Definitely. USE COLLINWOOD for COLLINWOOD.
Judy
[9366]
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It's going to be fascinating to see how this actually plays out in reality because, as I've mentioned in a few posts, there are some very real real-world issues that go way beyond whether fans might or might not want to see Seaview used in the film in some fashion. But until then, I suppose, as MirandaD proposed, the yeh and neh contingents will simply have to agree to disagree, mostly because the results of the poll are showing that there really is no clear cut opinion here.
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No question for me. YES. Definitely. USE COLLINWOOD for COLLINWOOD.
Well it seems like a no-brainer to me.. but clearly it's more controversial than I thought. And from Shadowgram #113, July 2008, page 3, last paragraph "SG reminds fans that the planned script intends to capture the spirit and mood of the original DS..."
While it's true that the use of a different house might still capture the "spirit and mood of the original", I can't help but think that the use of Seaview Terrace at Carey Mansion would give the production a leg up on that from the get-go. Outside of that, if I pretend that I had never seen one single episode of DS before and somebody showed me a picture of Carey Mansion, with the exact view shown at the beginning of every episode from the old series and explained the plot, I think I might declare it as perfect casting for the role!
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Well, Miss Judy, I don't understand why people place so much importance on the house to begin with. It's a house, for heaven's sake. [ghost_tongue] Iconic or whatever, it's overall value to the story is limited. A production choice that captures the style of the house(s) involved as well as the overall tone/mood of the story concerns me far more for that is what will make or break the movie. If the movie doesn't work, I doubt people will be saying "Gee, if only they had used the original house for the movie . . ." [ghost_mad]
I'll always try to come down on the side of keeping an open mind and not being dogmatic about what will and will not work. So there. [ghost_grin]
Nancy
I've read tons of responses here and I still do not understand why people would pick "no." That's one reason (of MANY) that I didn't like the original HODS. Come on, people, you used the WRONG HOUSE! Collinwood is Seaview/the Carey Mansion is Collinwood.
No question for me. YES. Definitely. USE COLLINWOOD for COLLINWOOD.
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The original Collinwood, Seaview Terrace, worked wonderfully well for the original show. Why is it that it would not work for a new generation as well? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I am honestly trying to understand the opposing viewpoint because I just don't. If what is wanted is an "all new reimagined" story with no ties to the past, why call it "Dark Shadows" at all? Why have Barnabas Collins in it at all? I know that with the talent of Johnny Depp, Tim Burton and John August, they could come up with a wonderful gothic tale that isn't called "Dark Shadows" and we could all enjoy it.
No one has suggested to "cut all ties" to the past. I know one viewpoint is to allow the new DS to stand on its own and I take that to mean to allow it to breathe life into the story and the characters which are, after all, what "Dark Shadows" is. We love and remember the show for its characters, the stories and the tone. IMO, that's where the focus should be and where the success or failure of the project lies, doesn't it?
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Using Seaview would not make or break the new movie but of all of the T-shirts I've seen with "Collinwood" pictured on the front or back it is always Seaview. I've never seen a Lyndhurst "Collinwood" T-shirt. Come to think of it outside of a book about one of the movies or the new show I've never seen any house other than Seaview used as Collinwood. No buttons, no CDs, in fact the only CD that has music from the new series don't even have a picture of Collinwood.
Much like the image of Karloff as Frankenstein will always be what people think about when they think Frankenstein, the image of Seaview is what people will always think of when they think Collinwood and the Karloff film is 78 years old.
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Several DS books that were printed back in the '80s featured Lyndhurst - and not just when discussing the movies. Fest flyers have used both Lyndhurst and Greystone. And both have also been featured in the Fest program books. [ghost_wink]
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The fab early 1970s newspaper comics by that lovely artist whose name I can never remember used Lyndhurst as Collinwood, too. And I'm sure I have seen Lyndhurst on DS t-shirts--probably movie themed ones. The house has its own fan base although I'm not familiar with anyone arguing that it could somehow supplant the "real" Collinwood--people cherish it if they have positive memories of the movies.
I'm sorry Lockwood Matthews isn't better known. It's a really fun place to visit.
G.
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If your talking about the Kenneth Bruce Bald comics it looks like Seaview to me.
Yes, they are House Of Dark Shadows shirts that feature Lyndhurst but that kinda goes without saying. I have a Lyndhurst shirt that I bought at Lyndhurst but I've never seen a shirt with a picture of Lyndhurst and the word Collinwood above it. I'm not saying they don't have them but I've never seen it.
Just to make a point. I have a photo of Seaview that I had made into a poster. When I took it to have it framed the lady that worked at the frame shop said "I know that house" then before I could say anything she screamed "COLLINWOOD!". We talked for over an hour about DS and the house. She hadn't seen the show in years and now wants to go see the house.
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If your talking about the Kenneth Bruce Bald comics it looks like Seaview to me.
Collinwood is actually all over the place in those comics. When they first started in March '71, it was Seaview, then it was some fantasy version of Seaview, then it was Lyndhurst, fantasy Seaview, Lyndhurst, fantasy Seaview, Lyndhurst, prophetically a house very much in the Tudor style of Greystone, Lyndhurst, and then who knows what after that because the newspapers in my area stopped printing the comics in November '71. Collinwood definitely had a HUGE identity crisis! [ghost_grin]
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The fab early 1970s newspaper comics by that lovely artist whose name I can never remember used Lyndhurst as Collinwood, too.
Actually, the newspaper serial version used both. When Collinwood was viewed from the back, it was Seaview; when viewed from the front, it was Lyndhurst. And then the artist tossed in a few more towers and such on his own every now and then.
Gerard
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I haven't looked at the book in awhile I just know they used Seaview at some point.
As for the movie being a sequel and because of that it can't be more stories about the same family in the family house, that's the unique thing about DS. Even on the TV show they retold stories and changed them in parallel time. This movie could be looked at as a sequel, it's just in a different time band.
I know, in a different time band they could live in a different house.
Lyndhurst is a cool looking house. I love it. It isn't Collinwood but it is beautiful. Graystone on the other hand, I really wasn't impressed with, not even when I went to see it. It isn't ugly but it would be better for a Dallas movie.
I hope this movie is good, I wish someone else was writing it and that's more important than what house they use, but if someone made a movie based on Dracula and put the Count in a ranch style house it just wouldn't fit, so yes, the location is very important to any story.
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Graystone on the other hand, I really wasn't impressed with, not even when I went to see it. It isn't ugly but it would be better for a Dallas movie.
Well, I don't know about that. Greystone is an English Tudor, not a Ranch Style house like Southfork. [ghost_wink] (And there aren't very many Texas style ranches in England. [ghost_grin])
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Graystone on the other hand, I really wasn't impressed with, not even when I went to see it.
I didn't care for it in '91, either. To me it was, well, boring. No character. Even the model used for full shots did not impress; I was waiting for Godzilla to appear and stomp on it.
Gerard
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I'll definitely concede that perhaps, at least from the outside, Greystone is the least interesting architecturally. There are far more interesting examples of English Tudor in the world. Though the inside of Greystone has much more to offer than its outside. And then there are the grounds. And given the backstory of Collinwood in the '91 series, it was an excellent choice as a shooting location from what's available in and around LA.
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Well, Miss Judy, I don't understand why people place so much importance on the house to begin with. It's a house, for heaven's sake. [ghost_tongue] Iconic or whatever, it's overall value to the story is limited.
Actually Nancy, I totally understand that POV. And in fact, my first thought was exactly the same as yours, that other issues were much more important, and I still believe that. So that's sort of an "I don't care about the house" vote, which isn't represented in the poll except as an "I don't know". Since my first thought, though, I have to say I've decided that I would prefer to see Seaview Terrace rather than another house. I like the nod to history without the necessity of being overwhelmed by it.
My confusion is with the "No" vote. I just don't understand that logic at all. If people are worried about the new version being too similar to the original, well, new viewers needn't know Seaview is the original house. And it's been mentioned time after time that the audience for the movie is not the original viewers. So.. why not use Seaview?
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Yes, they are House Of Dark Shadows shirts that feature Lyndhurst but that kinda goes without saying.
There've been t-shirts with the image of Lyndhurst as Collinwood that aren't tied to the movie. Here's one inspired by the 2004 Fest:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?showBleed=false&ProductNo=17478979&colorNo=1&pr=F (can be ordered here (http://www.cafepress.com/castlebees))
I have a Lyndhurst shirt that I bought at Lyndhurst but I've never seen a shirt with a picture of Lyndhurst and the word Collinwood above it. I'm not saying they don't have them but I've never seen it.
I can't recall seeing a DS shirt with "Collinwood" above any mansion, and if that's the case, I don't see this is a point of debate.
My confusion is with the "No" vote. I just don't understand that logic at all. If people are worried about the new version being too similar to the original, well, new viewers needn't know Seaview is the original house. And it's been mentioned time after time that the audience for the movie is not the original viewers. So.. why not use Seaview?
Other than the reasons already given? All of which, however much you might disagree, seem quite valid. There may very well be additional reasons on which members have based their no (or don't know) votes, but with the anonymity of the poll comes the voter's right to not give a reason. And quite frankly, the climate of this topic may not be as inviting for expressing opinions as some might think.
And MirandaD, you've said that it's not your intent to be argumentative, but quite honestly, it's coming across that way, at least to the mods. Your input has been appreciated, but with all due respect, could you please hold your thoughts until you have something new to add on this issue?
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I have a spiffy new idea. How about suggesting that the new Collinwood drawing room have a big painting of Seaview over the mantle, and the explanation could be that it was Josette's original home back in Martinique or France or wherever they decide she came from?
Though it WOULD likely defeat the well-meant intent to provide some financial benefit to the REAL Seaview, as the two "Stepford Wives" movies brought to Lockwood-Mathews (the second version, though IMO a worse film, DID bring in both, more money AND some nice restoration.)
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I like the idea of having a picture of the original Collinwood hanging on the walls of the latest Collinwood, but the thought of it being identified as Josette's childhood home has my mind going in squiggles. Would it have been a wedding present from Natalie, as a reminder to Josette of what civilization looked like? And shouldn't it be at the Old House with Josette's portrait?
I keep imagining hunting dogs in the foreground of the picture.
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I didn't mean to suggest that Graystone was a ranch style house, only that location is very important. If they used a ranch style for a Dracula movie we would not accept it because it would fit.
I think Graystone would fit a Dallas movie more than it did Dark Shadows. To me there is nothing Gothic about Graystone whatever it's style is. I'd rather see that old painting they used for the Roger Corman / Vincent Price movies used as Collinwood. Maybe they could do a CGI matt and put Seaview on that cliff.
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The reason for no is to have something new added to the mix. A new house would be something to relish or not like for sure but it would be different. And why not be different? Be new?
Besides the logistics for using Seaview won't work with the movie being shot in England. There is no reason for the production crew to stand on their heads to use Seaview for the house.
nancy
My confusion is with the "No" vote. I just don't understand that logic at all. If people are worried about the new version being too similar to the original, well, new viewers needn't know Seaview is the original house. And it's been mentioned time after time that the audience for the movie is not the original viewers. So.. why not use Seaview?
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I have a question: if Seaview is not used as Collinwood, why would it be so upsetting?
nancy
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Actually, if Johnny Depp and Tim Burton want to make the movie truly realistic, when Barnabas is released from his coffin, he'll find a Walmart standing where Collinwood once was.
Gerard
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Actually, if Johnny Depp and Tim Burton want to make the movie truly realistic, when Barnabas is released from his coffin, he'll find a Walmart standing where Collinwood once was.
[laughing4]
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Sadly, Gerard, you might be right there. [ghost_rolleyes]
Although - think of the possibilities for a "fight" against Walmart as the perfect plot for a film. We know that in the original show Liz was having financial troubles and was in danger of losing Collinwood. For a film (perhaps a sequel, though) they could adapt that original plot so that when Barnabas discovers the Collinses are in such financial straights that they have to bite the bullet to allow Walmart to buy the estate to build a Super-Duper Walmart. Barnabas, in his own inimitable way, puts the bite on the Walmart execs to not only protect the estate, but to get the funds to save it. It's timely AND Tim Burton quirky. [ghost_wink]
Although - on second thought, maybe it's just a bit too quirky. [ghost_grin] Never mind...
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The reason it would be wrong to me, I don't think I get upset, is that IMHO it would be like going to a Star Trek movie and they have a ship that looks like it should be in 2001, or Alien. The Enterprise is the part of Star Trek makes each new movie a Star Trek movie. They have brought in 4 or 5 different crews and it's accepted be fans because they have the same kinds of ships. They're updated but you can still see the original in them.
It would be like making a Frankenstein movie and having the live in a Ranch Style house and not showing the creation.
It would be like making a Batman movie where Batman drives a smart car.
The difference is that you don't update a house the way you do a car or ship. The house could look older, and does. As for the cost of filming there, it would be real easy to send out a crew to take photos and us green screen and CGI when they need the action to take place in front of it. If they're shooting soundstages they may be doing that anyway.
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Or how about this for a plot-line where Seaview can be used and a huge ton of money being saved? After Barnabas is released, he discovers that Collinwood has previously been rented out to a local college that trashed the place. Just think of it: no need to build sets, no need to provide extra furnishings. Just plug in some cameras, spotlights and a microphone boom and start filming!
Gerard
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Genius, Gerard! [ghost_cheesy]
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Thing is, you are comparing the original, iconic item with a hypothetical (and extremely different) outcome.
We don't know what house is going to be used. Why suspect the house is going to be so very different from the original?
Nancy
The reason it would be wrong to me, I don't think I get upset, is that IMHO it would be like going to a Star Trek movie and they have a ship that looks like it should be in 2001, or Alien. The Enterprise is the part of Star Trek makes each new movie a Star Trek movie. They have brought in 4 or 5 different crews and it's accepted be fans because they have the same kinds of ships. They're updated but you can still see the original in them.
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You're right and that could be good or bad. It fans of any of the other DS movies or shows don't buy the location it will put a bad taste in their mouth from the start. First impressions are very important. The wrong poster or trailer can keep people out of a theater. If the people don't buy the location it will be real hard for the movie to recover from it. The movie isn't being made for the TV shows original fans but if they go see it and give it bad word of mouth it could affect it's box office.
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I hope you are not right though you may be. It's a little scary if some folks are really that close-minded.
nancy
You're right and that could be good or bad. It fans of any of the other DS movies or shows don't buy the location it will put a bad taste in their mouth from the start. First impressions are very important. The wrong poster or trailer can keep people out of a theater. If the people don't buy the location it will be real hard for the movie to recover from it. The movie isn't being made for the TV shows original fans but if they go see it and give it bad word of mouth it could affect it's box office.
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Well word of mouth always affects box office. That's where a "sleeper hit" comes from. It can also happen to a movie that's expected to be a hit. If two new movies come out one weekend and you can only go see one of them are you going to go to the one that all your friends like or the one they all say sucks.
I think alot of DS fans are going to turn out for this movie if it gets made. It they don't like it they will tell people. Many will walk into the theater thinking that DS should not be remade, why can't they leave the classics alone? Then they'll see a house that looks nothing like Collinwood?
I don't think that's being closed minded. The fact is whenever you remake, or whatever you care to call it, a classic there are iconic things that are expected that people look for. With DS one of them is the waves washing over the rocks in the credits, one is Collinwood. For me if the new movie opened with the waves then Seaview I'd be ready for just about anything. I'd be at Collinwood, it would be on a big screen, and it would be hard to bring me down after that. It may be silly but if you put a smile on my face in the first 10 mins. it gonna be hard to get it off.
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I forgot something. The music has to be right. They could update but the music should at least feel like Bob Cobert's score.
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Well word of mouth always affects box office. That's where a "sleeper hit" comes from. It can also happen to a movie that's expected to be a hit. If two new movies come out one weekend and you can only go see one of them are you going to go to the one that all your friends like or the one they all say sucks.
True and if DS fandom were as large as, say, Star Trek, word of mouth would make a difference. But the fandom is not anywhere nearly that large and the word of mouth strength would be minimal People who are Johnny Depp fans and into vampire stories are going to be what makes or breaks this film. It would be wonderful if we, as a fandom, really had that kind of power but we do not.
I think alot of DS fans are going to turn out for this movie if it gets made. It they don't like it they will tell people. Many will walk into the theater thinking that DS should not be remade, why can't they leave the classics alone? Then they'll see a house that looks nothing like Collinwood?
Well, the fans who walk into the theater thinking the film should not be remade to begin with already have a prejudice and it's not likely they will like anything about the film.
I don't think that's being closed minded. The fact is whenever you remake, or whatever you care to call it, a classic there are iconic things that are expected that people look for.
I disagree. If a movie is being remade, I don't expect much to be the same except for the basic story and the characters. But that's just my expectation. I have gone to the theater and seen the same play done by different production companies and I don't have a problem with seeing " different" even though I have favored a certain production.
The original can never be redone to match what it was. The very fact the film is being re-done by new people puts the viewer on notice that some things will be different. If I were so opposed to anything being different, I simply would not go see the new film.
With DS one of them is the waves washing over the rocks in the credits, one is Collinwood. For me if the new movie opened with the waves then Seaview I'd be ready for just about anything. I'd be at Collinwood, it would be on a big screen, and it would be hard to bring me down after that. It may be silly but if you put a smile on my face in the first 10 mins. it gonna be hard to get it off.
If I felt that way, I'd just stay home. If the film isn't even going to get a chance I would not spend $10 to go see it. I'd spend it on the DS DVDs I didn't have or something else I knew I already liked.
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The reason it would be wrong to me, I don't think I get upset, is that IMHO it would be like going to a Star Trek movie and they have a ship that looks like it should be in 2001, or Alien. The Enterprise is the part of Star Trek makes each new movie a Star Trek movie. They have brought in 4 or 5 different crews and it's accepted be fans because they have the same kinds of ships. They're updated but you can still see the original in them.
With Star Trek, the movies were a continuation of the original series. They used the original cast in their original roles, so it made perfect sense to have an Enterprise that resembled the original; it was in the same storyline continuity, so the new Enterprise was an evolution of the starship design from several years earlier. The later series were continuations of the original storyline, not remakes.
The Dark Shadows movie is in all likelihood going to exist in its own time, its own universe--a new story based on the concepts that originated in the 1966 series and were reworked in NODS and the 1991 series. The house is just another character, and like all of the other characters it will be "played" by a new "cast" member. I'm sure Tim Burton and his production designer will be very careful to put together a production that has internal coherence; I have a feeling that Seaview has a good chance of not fitting into that design.
I have an extremely hard time imagining that the absence of Seaview will have any measurable impact on the boxoffice performance of the new Dark Shadows. The number of fans of the original series is miniscule in comparison to the millions of people who are the potential audience of the new movie. Out of the movie's audience, the portion of the original series' fan base that would be upset at seeing a "new" Collinwood is practically infinitesimal.
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The number of fans of the original series is miniscule in comparison to the millions of people who are the potential audience of the new movie. Out of the movie's audience, the portion of the original series' fan base that would be upset at seeing a "new" Collinwood is practically infinitesimal.
Then, is the purpose of giving the original DS cast members cameos in this film merely to give them a job and NOT to give the "minuscule" number of fans of the original DS a thrill in seeing familiar faces in a new Dark Shadows film? If the millions of people who are the potential audience wouldn't recognize Jonathan Frid or Lara Parker, why bother to spend the money flying them to England for a few seconds on the screen?
SDP
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I guess I really don't mind what they use for Collinwood, but if there ain't no afghan sitting on the sofa in the drawing room, I ain't going to go see the movie. There are some things that are non-negotiable!
Gerard
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The idea of cameos didn't even happen with the Dan Curtis-influenced 1991 series or the WB DS pilot so obviously it wasn't considered terribly important to the success of either project.
Johnny Depp has been known to want to work with actors he has admired and put them into his film. Christopher Lee is an example in "Sleepy Hollow" and Vincent Price was given a role in "Edward Scissorhands."
Who is being given a cameo in this upcoming project?
nancy
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Who is being given a cameo in this upcoming project?
The pen!
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I picked no. Hopefully Burton and co. can use their own artistic production to depict collinwood/collinsport and all of it's characters, just like was done for the films, the 1991 and 2004 series; it has always been different. Seaview and the interior sets are very iconic, but they were a symptom of the budget, and were limiting; I'm sure depp/burton would feel ridiculous shooting in an exact carbon copy of the original DS world, and would rather not spend a lot of time trying to blend in things like seaview into their London set. And frankly, things like special insertions/cameo's that don't neccessarily serve the plot often end up on the cutting room floor anyway once it becomes time to pick a film length.
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Ah. This is good news indeed! [ghost_cool]
The pen!
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Maybe I am not in the minority considering "NO" is winning so far! :) [ghost_wink]
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The pen!
yes and i hope collinsport inn waitress "susie" is being cast with great care...a small but multifaceted role.
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Who is being given a cameo in this upcoming project?
The pen!
If only! [pray]
if there ain't no afghan sitting on the sofa in the drawing room, I ain't going to go see the movie. There are some things that are non-negotiable!
Back in July, with regards to the pen and the afghan, I jokingly said in the "i looked for the pen" topic on the CT '09 II board thatPerhaps we should spearhead a letter writing campaign now by blanketing WB, Tim Burton Productions, Depp's Infinitum Nihil, and Graham King's GK Films with demands for their inclusion...
But now that others have seconded that idea, maybe it's not the joke I initially thought it was after all. [ghost_wink]
yes and i hope collinsport inn waitress "susie" is being cast with great care...a small but multifaceted role.
And Susie would come cheap because she never speaks - and no lines equals less pay. What more could Warner Brothers ask for in a cameo? [ghost_cool]
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I have an extremely hard time imagining that the absence of Seaview will have any measurable impact on the boxoffice performance of the new Dark Shadows. The number of fans of the original series is miniscule in comparison to the millions of people who are the potential audience of the new movie. Out of the movie's audience, the portion of the original series' fan base that would be upset at seeing a "new" Collinwood is practically infinitesimal.
Agreed. I think most people who will go to see this picture will be fans of vampires, horror movies, Johnny Depp, and Tim Burton. My sister, for example, watched DS when she was a kid, but hasn't seen it since. When I told her Depp was planning to play Barnabas, she exclaimed, "Oh, my god!!" Whether or not they use Seaview is of no importance to her. No doubt Tim Burton will come up with some far out sets for this film.
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That's a good point about the people who will go to this movie, Janet the Wicked. One thing this made me think of, though, is that though the fandom itself is incredibly small as fandoms go (measured by people who define themselves as 'active fans", those who are casual fans, but will join something like a yahoo group, or go to a Fest, but are not heavily into it, etc.) the movie would draw from a larger pool of people who are familiar with the show. These are, of course, the babyboomers who were crazy for the show as kids. Most may not have thought of the show in years, but there are a few things that would probably say Dark Shadows to them immediately: Barnabas,the opening credits of the rocks and the opening tag with the house.
Even my mother, who's never really watched the show (she says because she hates history stuff), knows EXACTLY who Barnabas and Anqelique are -- and recognizes the house. And LOL it's NOT because she ever watched it with me. She always worked (my Dad died when I was very small) and it was my GRANDMOTHER watched the show with me ( not to mention instructed me on Joan Bennett's movies).
Jeannie
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Even though they're probably a fairly decent percentage of the movie going public, the movie industry doesn't target for babyboomers anymore. They lust after the 18-34 demographic and even the 12-18 demo. The 35-49 demo is in some sort of limbo most of the time. And those of us who are 50 and older might as well be dead in their eyes. [ghost_rolleyes]
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doesn't target for babyboomers anymore. They lust after the 18-34 demographic and even the 12-18 demo. ... And those of us who are 50 and older might as well be dead in their eyes. [ghost_rolleyes]
And that so doesn't make sense 'cause at 51 I make more money and have more disposable income than I ever did when I was 18-40!!!!
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I personally feel less and less enthusiasm for this project as it is. I increasingly dislike Tim Burton's work with live action films as time goes on, as they seem more and more full of caricatures if not cartoonish. I was disappointed in SWEENEY TODD--- wow, hit me over the head with the symbolism of Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett looking more like the walking dead while everyone else looks normal. Yeah, they're losing their souls, I GET IT! But in reality, would any but the most desperate actually get a shave or buy a pie from people who REALLY looked like that? Nuh-uh, didn't think so. In short, they lacked some of the realism and menace of the stage play (which I watched on "Great Performances" 20-odd years ago.)
And that's what I fear for the DARK SHADOWS project--- an utter lack of subtlety, likely punctuated with the headache-inducing strains of a Danny Elfman score.
The premise of Barnabas, after all, was that a deceptively NORMAL type of dude is welcomed into his distant cousins' home and is slowly revealed to be a monster, and eventually, a monster who wants badly to be normal. Granted, there are time limitations in a movie, but I fear a ramped-up version of the bloody train wreck that was HODS. This matters to me, as a fan, more than whether the Seaview place is used either in reality or just as a digital template (though a reference of some kind WOULD be a nice nod to the original fans, with or without with any original cast cameos.)
So even though I voted "yes" for Seaview, I'm not as wrapped up in the concept, so much as worrying that the actual script, performances, effects, and music will be a distraction rather than an enhancement. As a good little fan I will hold my nose and see the finished product even if it's lousy, as it may stir some interest in the older series. But I'll be grateful forevermore if it's actually good, even if it doesn't exactly match up visually with the 1960s or even the 1991 versions.
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the bloody train wreck that was HODS
I loved HODS! [ghost_grin]
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I certainly hope you are wrong but I do understand your concerns. [ghost_mellow]
I definitely hope the film doesn't turn into the bloody "trainwreck" that was HODS, lol. Very well put. [ghost_tongue2]
As a good little fan I will hold my nose and see the finished product even if it's lousy, as it may stir some interest in the older series. But I'll be grateful forevermore if it's actually good, even if it doesn't exactly match up visually with the 1960s or even the 1991 versions.
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That's how I feel, LdyAnne. When I do have a job, I'm usually making good money and have more disposable than I did back between 18-34. I was able to have a comfortable enough living but not lots of extra money. I didn't even buy my own computer until the latter part of 1998!
I am glad that those who make video games are starting to recognize they have an over 40 audience who enjoy playing.
nancy
And that so doesn't make sense 'cause at 51 I make more money and have more disposable income than I ever did when I was 18-40!!!!
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I have to agree with you, oh Wicked One. The movie houses are not going to be overrun with Dark Shadows fans as we know them the type of fan who is active in online fandom and will go to at least one festival or DS gathering in his or her lifetime. Those who attend are going to be horror movie fans and admirers of Johnny Depp's work and even the partnership of Depp and Burton.
Oh, and did I tell you about the fan who recently emailed me and asked what kind of shower curtains Frid has in his bathroom?
I told her he had werewolf heads drawn on his shower curtain. No word back as to whether she believed me or not.
nancy
I think most people who will go to see this picture will be fans of vampires, horror movies, Johnny Depp, and Tim Burton. My sister, for example, watched DS when she was a kid, but hasn't seen it since. When I told her Depp was planning to play Barnabas, she exclaimed, "Oh, my god!!" Whether or not they use Seaview is of no importance to her. No doubt Tim Burton will come up with some far out sets for this film.
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When I do have a job, I'm usually making good money and have more disposable than I did back between 18-34.
But, being older, you probably spend your money far more wisely than the average 18-to-34-year-old, so you have no future as a target audience for advertisers.
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But, being older, you probably spend your money far more wisely than the average 18-to-34-year-old, so you have no future as a target audience for advertisers.
LOL, you got me there, Lydia!
I am thrilled though that finally those who create the video games for teenagers and young adults have now realized they have an over-40 community who want to play and do play those same games. Me being one of them.
nancy
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the bloody "trainwreck" that was HODS, lol.
Bloody -- yes, trainwreck -- no.[ghost_tongue] [ghost_smiley]
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But, being older, you probably spend your money far more wisely than the average 18-to-34-year-old, so you have no future as a target audience for advertisers.
I know you were responding to Nancy but....wisely???? I go to Dark Shadow Fest and spend lots of money on going and staying at them. I would not say that is wise? I have the entire DVD series and after I was an adult found and bought the remaining DS books by Marilyn Ross. I also buy all the books published by the DS stars and Fans... I could go on but My point is none of this is anything I need or is it bought as an investment. I have reached a stage in life where I am free to indulge my whims because I have less responsibilities (no kids at home or schoold, make more money so that once the essentials are paid I can be indulgent with myself). That is my point.
OH and my husband plays online games all the time!
LdyAnne
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The way the entertainment industry and advertisers think might seem counterintuitive to those of us who have more disposable income than we did when we were younger and who might frequently indulge our whims - but they don't see the situation in those terms. Their way of thinking for quite some time now has been that people over 50 are too set in their ways and nowhere near as easily malleable as younger people are. They believe the 50 and over crowd cannot be as easily influenced to try a new product or be as easily persuaded to see a new film or watch a new TV show. To their minds, those 50 and over like what they like and they're all going to stick to just what it is that they like. Whether that is true or not for the majority, I don't know. I'm definitely willing to try new things. But I also know several people for whom the set in their ways and more or less closed-minded description is a very apt one, so there is actually something to it. And because it does accurately describe a portion of the 50 and over demographic, all those 50 and over are lumped in together and written off. [ghost_rolleyes]
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Very interesting. I'm also always on the prowl to try new things and so this outlook frustrates me. I am rarely dogmatic about anything and think its a sad environment to live in if expanding our horizons isn't a goal in life. But it's also harder to sell me a bill of goods as it was twenty years ago. [ghost_nowink]
Nancy
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I know you were responding to Nancy but....wisely?
Yes, wisely. You know from experience that the things you buy will increase your happiness. You're not buying them just because you saw an ad for them or because all your friends have them.
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A very good point.
On this same wave length, yesterday I drove past Dover Downs and saw all the trailers of racing fans parked in a designated lot. These people go all over the eastern seaboard and beyond to indulge in their love of racing. Most people have some passion they spend money on and I doubt much of it would fall into the category of "wisely," lol.
Nancy
Yes, wisely. You know from experience that the things you buy will increase your happiness. You're not buying them just because you saw an ad for them or because all your friends have them.
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Quick question for you M.B. Where is it that you ran across the photo of Cecilia Hall when the Bradley's lived there? What source is it from?
Just wondering and many thanks! :)
J.B.C.
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With respect, advertisers and film studios are also aiming at entire demographics rather that specific fandoms. As far as selling things go, they are also trying to get people to change their buying habits, which older customers are less likely to do.
Having said that, I am quietly hopeful that the new Collinwood would indeed be new. I'm not interested particularly in seeing a carbon copy. When I go to see a new version of Dracula, then an imitation of Bela Lugosi or Gary Oldman would make me feel cheated.
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the photo of Cecilia Hall when the Bradley's lived there? What source is it from?
The Preservation Society of Newport County. Back in 1925 a whole series of photos were taken shortly after the debut of the newly completed Seaview Terrace. The PSoNC has copies of them - though from time to time some of the photos show up in various articles on the Newport mansions and even as post cards. Honestly, because of how the house was vandalized during the years it was left empty and unattended and, of course, what some of the Salve students have done to it, I always feel quite sad whenever I come across something showing the house in its glory days. [hall2_cry] But I suppose things could be worse - in 1949 Newport could have demolished the house and simply sold the land rather than putting the land and the house up for sale. But then, they wanted to fork out as little as possible to unload it, so that's probably the only reason the house was spared the wrecking ball...
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Thank you so much M.B.! It has been sad, but I get the impression there may be a hope for preservation. Thank you so much! :0)
Please have a fabulous weekend!
Josettebycandlelight
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Awesome conversation thread. I enjoyed reading through it all.
Really enjoyed the photos of the real Seaview. Pity about all the damages done to it, though. How very sad. Years ago my brother gave me some coffee table type books on mansions in the US with pictures. I'll have to look through it to see if Seaview is included. I seem to remember that little balcony in the hall.
I won't bother posting my 'yes' or 'no' as it really doesn't matter.