DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Watching Project 2 on September 20, 2008, 02:00:09 AM

Title: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Watching Project 2 on September 20, 2008, 02:00:09 AM
For those who may have missed it the first time around, here's the pilot montage we created in the forum's VantageNet days to celebrate the '91 series' 10th Anniversary:

(http://www.dsboards.com/1991/91-01.jpg)
(Notice that captures are included from some of the restored scenes. And if you're watching
the DVDs, note there are captures included with the correct day-for-night filtering.)

And here are the commercial bumpers for Part 2 that give a peek at what's to come in the next act:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0113_Bumper_6.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0113_Bumper_7.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0113_Bumper_8.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0113_Bumper_9.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(More to come...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 20, 2008, 05:29:28 AM
Hey guys.  Here I am!! Hopefully first! LOL   A little hint for those watching it on DVD.  If you will turn your contrast down a lot it will make the day for night scenes look much better.  I cannot believe they screwed that up.  I will say this though.  The DVD looks amazing. If it wasn't for the dated cars, hair and clothes it looks as if could have been shot last week in my opinion.  Very clear!

We open with a scene of the monstrous David taunting poor Victoria.  It's nice to see Carolyn reach out to Victoria.  I also like the extra footage we get on the VHS tapes that let us know Carolyn recently returned to Collinwood.  It's a shame these things were edited out. They gave us a lot more character development!!  Poor Willie!  I know he is a screw up and I hate how Roger treats him.  However, I love the sort of protectiveness Victoria seems to feel toward Willie.  I really like the music when Barnabas enters Willie's interrogation.  For some reason it seems very familiar! *WINK* *NOD* For some reason I really like the part where Barnabas says, "Come along Willie"  He almost seems like a normal nice man!   I love the romantic tension between Victoria and Barnabas at the meeting.  I really loved Sarah's character. "He's Evil!" David suggest to Victoria about Barnabas.   LOVE. THE. MUSIC!!!!  It is so haunting and sets the mood for me.  It really sounds great on Surround Sound.  PROPS to Robert Cobert for such a glorious score!! 

"It's gonna be awful!"-David LOL  JGL delivered that line superbly!!  I love the shot of David going down the winding stairs to the basement.  That is a CLASSIC Dan Curtis shot!!  I have to wonder why Barnabas or Willie didn't lock the gate that  David went through?  The coffin room is very spooky looking and from an US weekly article I have that is the BOWLING ALLEY in the Dohney Mansion.

Carolyn is a little Huss.  However, I love her comeback line to "MUSCLES"  "...Your never gonna ride 'em"  Gloria's scream reminds me of a scream or two from a past horror show!  [ghost_wink] 

I absolutely love the way Julia is introduced.  "Well lets' get him on the phone!" "HER name is Julia Hoffman!" Possibly another *WINK & NOD*?  I will NEVER be able to EXPRESS to anyone how PERFECT I thought Barbara Steele was for the part of Julia Hoffman.  I feel the same way about her as I do about Joanna Going.  No one else (at that time) could have played either one.  It is cool to know Dan Curtis pulled her out of retirement to play Julia.  I would have loved to have seen BS with her hair down more because she is gorgeous with it that way.  If you have ever seen her on the DS RESSURECTED video.  She is breathtaking.  She was a gorgeous young woman and a gorgeous middle aged woman IMO.  The only thing IMO that made her dowdy was her hair constantly braided because the woman was ALWAYS painted (makeup) beautifully and had those wonderful long red nails. And was dressed to the Nines!!  But she isn't a SYT!  [ghost_rolleyes]

I love the scene where Barney shows Victoria Josette's room.  I really hate seeing Willie getting beat to death. :(  Great scenes between Julia, Elizabeth, and Barnabas as Julia meets him for the first time.  I think he is acquiring some pieces for The Old House! Issac Collins is mentioned. I would have liked to have know more about him. Great SHOTS of Julia and Barnabas as they peer at one another through the Grandstaircase!!  I think Julia begins to believe something is not quite right about him!!

I love the music box.  It is gorgeous and I really enjoyed the scenes with Barnbabs and Victoria having dinner.  Love the shot of Sarah with all the fog watching Barnabas escort Victoria home.  I love the ending scenes except for how they translated to DVD.  I really enjoy Barnabas breakdown at the end!  Great ending that keep me wanting more.

I personally like the second half better and therefore will give it an A-

BTW ATT MOD.  Can I scan any articles and post them.  I have several however I wanted to make sure it was okay first.

Below are some screencaps!!

The last one is my favorite.  I am as in love with Barbara Steele as I am a certain other doctor who once appeared on TV.  I hope my inneundo wasn't too much.  I didn't really know exactly how to point out some thoughts without reflecting on the past!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 20, 2008, 05:38:37 AM
I just noticed my favorite picture in the collage!! LOL  Love Barbara!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Cousin_Barnabas on September 20, 2008, 08:35:56 AM
So, this half was definitely better than the first.  Once again, I must say that the direction and music of this pilot are top quality.  Both are exceptional.

This show's whole take on the vampire story is really refreshing.  The "experts" are all seemingly open to the possibility of this being a real vampire, and I like that take a lot.  It gets the story going a lot quicker, instead of holding everything up by having scenes where everyone is arguing over whether or not the vampire is real. 

I am really starting to like Barnabas as a character.  I wasn't too sure about him in the first half, but now I think I'll like him.  I love Victoria and David even more than I did in the first hour.  Both are exceptional.  I still don't like Carolyn or Roger.  Willie is just sort of annoying.  He's supposed to add comic relief, but I think he's a little over-the-top so far.  He may get better as time goes on.

There were a couple of things that bothered me.  The first thing was how they dressed Elizabeth in a couple of the scenes.  Some of her outfits just don't seem to fit the rather regal, strong lady Elizabeth seems to be.  Another thing that bothered me was the staircase leading to the basement of the Old House.  It looked so modern that it completely threw off my whole sense of immersion.  Another quibble I have with this part of the show is how I am unable to tell whether or not I am looking at Collinwood or the Old House.  They look exactly the same to me, and it's very confusing.  Another little thing that I noticed here that didn't really bother me, but I am thinking is a blooper, is Barnabas returning to look up at Victoria's window without his cane.  I can't imagine him walking all the way back to the Old House just to drop off his cane and then come back to hiss at Miss Winters' window.  It's entirely possible, but I think they just omitted his cane because of the logistics of the scene; ie: running after Sarah.  The problem there is that they made such a point in the previous scene to emphasize the cane, that Barnabas not having it a few minutes later just seems like a big oversight. 

There were two wonderful scenes in this part of the pilot.  The first was Willie's interrogation.  I thought that was a very well directed scene.  The other was Barnabas and Victoria in Josette's room.  Once again, I have to comment that the music is superb, especially Josette's Music Box theme. 

As a side note, I must say that I am watching the DVDs, and the removal of the "night" filters on the day for night scenes doesn't really bother me.  I just think of all that excess light as really bright moonlight, and since the setting for this show is really quite surreal, it works in my opinion.  My tapes of the original broadcast include the filters, and the heavy blues in those scenes always bothered me, because they made the scenes seem fake.   

My grade for this part of the pilot is an A-.  Over all, it's great.  The few problems I mentioned above don't really take away from the show itself, but the excess "sex appeal" elements written into the script do detract in my opinion.  Frankly, I'm not interested in seeing Joe and Daphne swap saliva or Carolyn tease that future victim in the bar.  Those things detract from the quality of the show, imo.  I want to see character build-up, more emphasis on the family, on Barnabas and Victoria, etc.  But, that's just me. 

Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Lydia on September 20, 2008, 02:15:03 PM
Funny, when I saw the portrait of Josette, my first thought was: "She looks like Carolyn."  That pout on the face in the portrait looked very much like Carolyn's pout to me.

As David, sitting in his bed, told Vicky what Sarah had told him, it seemed to me that Sarah was serving the same function for David that Barnabas was for Willie.  Willie's a bad boy and Barnabas is turning him into a good boy (well, sort of), and David's a bad boy but Sarah believes he has the potential to be a good boy.  I don't suppose that that set-up is exactly the case - but that's how it seemed at the time.

Why did Joshua Collins go to the trouble of bringing Collinwood over from England when it doesn't seem to have been a notable improvement on the very grand Old House?  And was the Old House brought over from England as well?  It certainly looks like it.  I like the arches inside the Old House, by the way.  I always like arches.

That dinner invitation from Barnabas to Vicky may have been romantic, and beautifully written too, but I didn't think much of it.  It shouldn't have been for the same night, and the dinner shouldn't have been at his house.  Too much too soon.  But Vicky had no problem with it.

Hmph.  Barnabas tells Vicky that when Josette died, it broke his ancestor's heart.  If I had been Vicky, I would have been thinking to myself, "Maybe so, but he still managed to marry and to father at least one son after that."  We know that he didn't - but Vicky doesn't know that.

Nice job by Ben Cross as Barnabas ran after Sarah - totally undignified, flailing his arms.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on September 20, 2008, 02:32:15 PM
I have to agree that the music is fantastic! Did they really need to show Barnabas swinging his cane in the air and beating down on poor Willie over and over and over and over!  I would have gotten the message without the excessive violence.  [ghost_shocked]     Barbara Steele is wonderful! I find her believable as a hard working research doctor who is all professional but can still show a little bit of warmth towards her patient.  I'm still making up my mind about the Barnabas role. He's mysterious to be sure. His total coldness towards Willie is disconcerting but I like how it shows the layer's of his character.  Except for the violence thus far I rate the pilot an A-1... [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 20, 2008, 02:48:19 PM
Are we really meant to think that no one in the Collins family, even self professed family history expert Elizabeth, has never seen a picture of Josette?  Surely the one in her room at the Old House was not the only painting or drawing ever done of her?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 20, 2008, 03:23:25 PM
Count me as another Barbara Steele fan!  I love her first appearance emerging from the train-- a goddess in black boots!  Judging by the look that Julia and Woodard exchanged when the sheriff mentioned the teeth and red eyes of Daphne's attacker, she seems to have gone beyond being "intrigued" (when she first arrived) and knows a good deal by the end of the pilot.

I agree with Cousin Barnabas that the interrogation in the direction scene was very good.  Barnabas says there that he took the liberty of letting himself in.  That must feel satisfying for a vampire who has already been invited inside.

But I cannot stand Gloria and her "Can't you WAIT until we GET into the CAR?"  I get that a town slut was needed to take the place of the prostitute in classic vampire stories, but the former Miss Cowboy USA may have been hired more for her bod and less for her ability to fit in to a small Northeastern town.

If anyone watching the DVD wondered how Vicki knew the horse's name, it's because the VHS has the restored scene that Taeylor mentioned of Carolyn driving Vicki to the stables.  Carolyn explains that when her mother called (presumably because of David), she left the bright lights to return home, though she was just starting to get somewhere with her photography and is still doing some picture taking.  Vicki suggests that since she's there now, Carolyn might be able to go back, but Carolyn says it's hard to leave right now, and Vicki admits she might be right.  After Vicki gets out of the car, Carolyn calls out to her, "Take the chestnut mare.  Her name is Carolyn."

Tarantulas.  They're common here in Southern California, and I found a small one in my bedroom after we first moved in.  My husband returned it to the canyon behind the house.  I don't like spiders, but at least I know that tarantulas are not particularly harmful, and that you would NOT find a lot of them in Maine IF AT ALL.

I also wondered why Willie doesn't lock the gate to the basement during the day, especially with a crew of workers on the premises.

Poor Victoria Winters, but not because of David's pranks.  She is so hopelessly caught up in the romanticism of the ancestral house with its secrets, the story of the tragic woman she resembles, and her mysterious suitor.

Don't get too attached to the portrait of Josette.   [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 20, 2008, 03:53:56 PM
Don't get too attached to the portrait of Josette.   [ghost_wink]
LOL!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: RachelDrummand on September 20, 2008, 04:13:10 PM
So I held back on commenting last week because I wanted to reflect on the pilot as a whole. First I'd like to address the whole Josette's portrait issue. As someone else suggested, one would think Josette had another portrait done and Liz had seen it. And this is getting a bit ahead, but look closely at Josette's portrait now. For some reason in the later eps, the portrait changes...unless you want to consider the possibility that there are two portraits that at one time hung in that room.

Characterizations: My personal favorites are Victoria Winters, Barnabas Collins, Sarah Collins, David Collins, and Julia Hoffman. I also think DC did an excellent job casting Jean Simmons as Liz. She gave the character such warmth and depth. If I had to choose one character I didn't particular care of, it would be Carolyn. Her role in all of this is a bit confusing. Why is she there and could she really be interested in Victoria? That comes across in a few scenes from the VHS. IMO, she's possible bi-sexual.

David is a little hell-raiser and I'm really suprised they didn't just drop him off in some military school (as someone else on here suggested) ;)

Back to the plot, I adore the romance between Victoria and Barnabas. They have so much wonderful chemistry! I also am intrigued with this sub-plot of the mystery of Roger's wife (which is implied a little in the pilot). I suspect Roger's wife was a painter and painted that one painting Victoria comments on. Although they are so rich one has to wonder why they couldn't afford to just buy the original instead of having a copy. 

Barnabas' letter to Victoria always causes me to swoon, but you could have a point, Lydia. Perhaps it is too much too soon but this is Barnabas' we're talking about after all. Maybe he just felt he didn't want to waste any time in courting her.

More on this later!

~Rachel
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 20, 2008, 04:34:15 PM
David is a little hell-raiser and I'm really suprised they didn't just drop him off in some military school (as someone else on here suggested) ;)

Roger was all for sending David to a boarding school, but Elizabeth would have none of it.

Regarding Carolyn's seductiveness, how about her suggestion that Vicki ride "Carolyn"?

And according to DS Resurrected, Carolyn is 18.  Does that fit her "bright lights" story, and what IS the drinking age in Maine?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: RachelDrummand on September 20, 2008, 06:17:35 PM
Ewww good point about the horse. I have both the tapes and the dvds and always prefer to watch the tapes since it doesn't leave anything out. I didn't realize Carolyn was supposed to be 18 in this....that means if they are related, Victoria is the older sister. I always envisioned Carolyn around the same age....25 or so.

Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 20, 2008, 06:47:26 PM
Watched the vhs this morning.  Wow, Carolyn again comes across as almost as predatory as Barnabas, especially when (as mentioned upthread) she suggests Vicki ride the horse named Carolyn!! 

Strangely enough, I find that Going and Fyfe have more of a chemistry than Going and Cross.  Willie now is meek and pitiable, but his scenes with Vicki scream for the inclusion of the missing scene of them in the pick up on her first night, where they first connected.  I like how Vicki sticks up for him.  In his way, he's just as much a recalcitrant child as David, and it shows her talent to be able to get on boths good side.  Speaking of David, while he's still cool toward her, he certainly has warmed to her quite considerably.

Roger is a dick and I don't like him right now, maybe he feels justified treating Willie the way he does but still   [ghost_tongue]

Never mind, the basement being open to anyone who anyone who passes by, WTF is up with a friggin' SKYLIGHT shining down on Barnabas' coffin?!?!?!?!?!

Was that bar scene at the Blue Whale?  And "You talk kinda funny."? Surely even the town slut has a TV and has heard people from England talk?

Woof!  Man on man vampire action!  On screen!  At last!  [ghost_grin]

I like Julia a lot. She's very cool and classy.

I am not surprised Elizabeth knows the Doctor but I am surprised she is on a first name basis with Woodard.

Does Joe ever shave??

I can't decide about Barnabas' behavior toward Vicki, he lingers a little too long in kissing her hand and my gut instinct is that he's kind of creepy in an oily lounge lizard kind of way.

I have to admit when Barnabas was talking about Josette and said "an accident!"  I immediately thought of a similar in the Rocky Horror Picture Show and even repeated aloud "An accident!"  [ghost_tongue2]

The portrait of Josette like the portrait of Barnabas, looks very much out of the time it was supposed to have been painted.  She looks too free and voluptuous and frankly a bit wanton, beyond which I think even the French of the time would venture.

Surely if the victim had been floating in the surf for any length of time.  the bloodstains around the neck wound would have washed away long since.....

Okay, am I the only on who thought the idea of moving Daphne to a downstairs room (providing her assailant easier access) an incredibly bad idea?

I agree that the romance seems to be going way too quickly, and find it odd that Barnabas would invite Vicki to dinner.  I mean, what's he going to say when she comments that he's not eaten anything?  Will Vicki just simper when he says her beauty has robbed him of his appetite?  [ghost_smiley]

Poor Barnabas, I love how helpless and pathetic he becomes when he espies Sarah, unfortunately, the mood was broken but the overacted "I CANNOT HELP MYSELF!  MYSELF! Myself... myself....."  It would have been much more effective if it had been played more subtly, but one cannot fault the actor for that, but the director.

Overall, better than part 1 and the two together are better as a whole.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 20, 2008, 09:09:53 PM
Wow, Carolyn again comes across as almost as predatory as Barnabas, especially when (as mentioned upthread) she suggests Vicki ride the horse named Carolyn!!

I wish so much that I could find  the article or interview I read with Barbara Blackburn.  She played Carolyn almost in bisexual way she said.  Can anyone back this up?? 

Quote
Was that bar scene at the Blue Whale?

I thought it was called Logans something!

Quote
Woof!  Man on man vampire action!  On screen!  At last!

I didn't really care much for this one.  There is one in the '91 comics that is HOT!  And the paintings look so real it is very very sexy!!  I didn't find the Muscles bite all that sexy.

Quote
I am not surprised Elizabeth knows the Doctor but I am surprised she is on a first name basis with Woodard.

Collinsport is a small town right?  I would think it weird if Elizabeth didn't know "MOST" everyone by name considering her family built the town and she has lived there all her life.

Quote
Does Joe ever shave??

I think it fits with the fisherman thing.  PLUS!  GOOD GOD.  Micheal is ONE hunk of a man!  I love his stubble and his hairy chest!! YUMMY!  If I were Daphne I would be kissing him every chance I got!!

Quote
and find it odd that Barnabas would invite Vicki to dinner.  I mean, what's he going to say when she comments that he's not eaten anything?  Will Vicki just simper when he says her beauty has robbed him of his appetite?

In the Dark Shadows world maybe vampires can eat?? The rules aren't always the same in all vampire lore.  I know Angel could eat food it just didn't bring him any pleasure.

BTW...Nelson I am not picking at your post alone.  I hope you don't feel that way.  I enjoyed it!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 20, 2008, 09:20:58 PM
And according to DS Resurrected, Carolyn is 18.

Is there a way to quote two posts at a time??   Is DS Resurrected the gospel?  After all it is a Pom Press book.  BTW...Midnite I am so glad you share my love for Barbara Steele! GODDESS INDEED!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Lydia on September 20, 2008, 10:01:10 PM
The portrait of Josette like the portrait of Barnabas, looks very much out of the time it was supposed to have been painted.  She looks too free and voluptuous and frankly a bit wanton, beyond which I think even the French of the time would venture.
I was surprised when Barnabas said that Barnabas and Josette had become paramours.  I had always thought that paramours slept together.  I checked in online dictionaries and it looks as though "paramour" doesn't indubitably mean the people are sleeping together, but the implication is so clear that it would be misleading to apply the word to people who are not sleeping together.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 20, 2008, 10:54:37 PM
Thanks GODDESS Lydia!  When I was screening the episode I meant to look the word up.  I remember in my youth thinking it meant "friends" and I never really thought about it anymore.  I actually had planned on looking it up.  THANKS!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: RachelDrummand on September 20, 2008, 11:45:27 PM
So I held back on commenting last week because I wanted to reflect on the pilot as a whole. First I'd like to address the whole Josette's portrait issue. As someone else suggested, one would think Josette had another portrait done and Liz had seen it. And this is getting a bit ahead, but look closely at Josette's portrait now. For some reason in the later eps, the portrait changes...unless you want to consider the possibility that there are two portraits that at one time hung in that room.

So I'm quoting myself because I really want to get an opinion about this. I know I'm not crazy and there are two different portraits used!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 21, 2008, 12:38:46 AM
Is there a way to quote two posts at a time??

Yes.  With your response window open, use the Insert Quote button next to the post below that you want to additionally quote.  It will insert the entire text of the quote into your post where you can then remove the parts you are not responding to.  Hope that helped.

Quote
Is DS Resurrected the gospel?  After all it is a Pom Press book.

I got Carolyn's age from its Episode Guide.  I don't know who wrote it, but a mistake in it was already noted in the Part 1 discussion.  So I'd say no.

Quote
Midnite I am so glad you share my love for Barbara Steele! GODDESS INDEED!

She showed up at several local DS events before I finally was able to speak to her and have her autograph a photo at the Halloween Vista thing.  I tell you, it was a THRILL.  :D

BTW, I think the bar was called the Three Gables Roadhouse.  It was actually a restaurant & club in Malibu that's now been replaced by a shopping center.  :(
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 21, 2008, 01:03:06 AM
OFF TOPIC:  Hey Midnite.  If I come with a lot of cash will you tour me around Southern California when I visit!???  We would have a good ole time talking BS and DS! [ghost_wink] 

Below!  My two favorite woman...so far!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 21, 2008, 01:19:32 AM
Hee hee, we'd have a blast!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: arashi on September 21, 2008, 04:23:22 AM
Running commentary as the episode plays:

Carolyn is supposed to be 18?!?!?!  [ghost_rolleyes] I would have pegged her as 25 at least. I always found not only the fact that Carolyn named her horse after herself, but the fact that she suggest Victoria ride her, a little disconcerting at least. It's not the implied attraction on Carolyn's part, it's the predatory way she carries the conversation.

David definitely would have gotten me with that spider - there would have been much screaming, dancing away and flailing of arms. We definitely don't get tarantulas in Maine, but we do get a couple of really horrible species of the suckers. My first thought upon seeing that spider was Holy Shit! I am TOTALLY staying away from any wood piles, and I'd totally be stripping the covers off my bed every night before I got in it.

I really feel for Willie. He seems genuinely terrified! For once he seems truly relieved to see Barnabas! I like Jim Fyfe. I think he does a good job as Willie. He's obviously got a good heart under his exterior, as he's terrified of what he unleashed upon himself and those in the area. I guess he could be feeling scared more so what will happen to him if something happens to Barnabas, than what Barnabas is doing to others - you could read both emotions into it.

For a house that was never outfitted with electricity, those were some really interesting panels on the stairwell wall there as they scanned over to Barnabas' coffin, and I can't believe he's got it up on a pedestal like it's on display! There has to be somewhere in the house less conspicuous than right near the door at the foot of the basement stairs.

There are some fine examples of white dancing going on at the Blue Whale. I always loved the "Right before they hit on me." exchange - but wouldn't someone telling her she was pretty count as being hit on? You'd think too that Barnabas would at least take the girl somewhere less populated before eating her in the parking lot of a crowded bar. Too many potential witnesses.

I have to agree with everyone who echoed the positive sentiments about the authorities being open to the idea of not only a looney who thinks he's a vampire, but an actual vampire. It poses much more of a threat to Barnabas' existence, saves the audience from aggravation, and moves the plot along nicely.

I always liked the unveiling of Josette's room, though I have to wonder, did they unboard the door and find the candles still lit?  [ghost_wink] From a quick google search on 18th century portraits (http://images.google.com/images?q=18th+century+portraits&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title) it appears Josette's portrait is pretty accurate, save the hair style.

Who the hell are all these random people on the beach when they're dragging the bodies out of the water? I know a lot of people in Maine have a police scanner - but they only show up if you've hit a deer. LOL!

What? No finding the center of the light?

I totally didn't get the Isaac reference until someone else here pointed it out.

Here's something that has always bothered me, and it may come up later but I forget now, why is Barnabas' portrait so prominently displayed at Collinwood? He never lived there himself, he didn't build it or pay for it's construction, don't you think Joshua's portrait would be the largest one to grace the grand stairs of the home?

Victoria seems absolutely enthralled by Barnabas, but at the same time, slightly scared of him as well. I don't know if she's startled more by his passion or her own.

I wonder where the trend of having vampires bare their fangs in that manner before they bit someone started. It doesn't look scary, it looks goofy as hell. I don't recall any of the vampires in the Universal pictures doing it, so it must have started later?

I loooooooooove the way they handled Sarah's ghost on this series, and silently weep that they never continued to any of the other main ghost stories.

Second half better than the first - and it only gets better from here!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 21, 2008, 05:36:28 AM
I wish so much that I could find  the article or interview I read with Barbara Blackburn.  She played Carolyn almost in bisexual way she said.  Can anyone back this up??

Taeylor,

A friend recalls either BB saying that she played Carolyn as though she were trying to seduce Victoria, or JG making the comment with BB present, but he said it was in a filmed interview.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Cousin_Barnabas on September 21, 2008, 08:20:07 AM
I wonder where the trend of having vampires bare their fangs in that manner before they bit someone started. It doesn't look scary, it looks goofy as hell. I don't recall any of the vampires in the Universal pictures doing it, so it must have started later?

They didn't even have fangs in the Universal films.  [ghost_wink]  But, if they did, they certainly wouldn't be allowed to flash them like that.  It would be against code.  [ghost_tongue2]  Bela Lugosi died before Dracula showed his fangs off to the American movie-going public. 

That tradition really caught on with Christopher Lee in the Hammer films.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 22, 2008, 03:51:40 AM
So I'm quoting myself because I really want to get an opinion about this. I know I'm not crazy and there are two different portraits used!
I know I am jumping ahead.  You are not crazy.  It's never remarked upon in the series.  I think it's just chalked up to a period of time between the filming of the pilot and the green lighting of a season and when the production team started to ramp up either the original prop had gone missing or it was decided  that a head and shoulders portrait of Josette (with an obviously much larger face for the tv audience to see more clearly that Vicki is an almost exact double of Josette) would be more appropriate.  I expect we will rehash this the next time Josette's portrait is seen....  [ghost_grin]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 22, 2008, 09:24:06 AM
Taeylor,

A friend recalls either BB saying that she played Carolyn as though she were trying to seduce Victoria, or JG making the comment with BB present, but he said it was in a filmed interview.

THANK YOU THANK YOU Midnite!  I didn't want to spread false information however I was 99% sure I had read an interview or watched one. And when I heard this it made total sense.  I didn't pick up on it when I was a teen but watching it as an adult I did!  I appreciate you backing this up.  Now that I know it's filmed I am gonna have go digging through some old videos!  [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 22, 2008, 06:38:48 PM
Okay, my first post was based on notes I made as I was watching the episode, then I to skedaddle off to the country to see my bf for the weekend.

Here are some additional thoughts…

While it stands well enough on it’s own as a piece of late 80s horror, it doesn’t fare nearly as well IMO as a decent prime time soap.  It seems that is what the show was trying to do (be a prime time soap) and in that respect, it fell down in a few important areas for me.

Victoria:  We are treated to an intriguing voiceover from Victoria Winters telling us she “hopes to unlock the secrets of her past.”  Unfortunately, that tantalizing comment is never built upon.  There is a throwaway line from Roger about why a 25yo girl from New York would want to come to Collinsport, but otherwise it’s totally ignored.  I have no problem at all with Carolyn being attracted to Vicki, but I think those scenes would have been put to much better use learning more of Vicki’s story.  Why IS she there?  Where is her family?  Was she raised in an orphanage?  Did she leave friends or a boyfriend in New York?  Sadly, she is there simply because the script says she must be there.  A wasted opportunity.

David:  He is a little monster, apparently carrying out an 80s slasher movie version of “The Sound of Music”.  He’s troubled and his family wants little to do with him for all of Elizabeth’s protests.  David has no scene with any of his family save the one where Barnabas shows up.  The rest of the time he spends with Vicki, which makes me sympathize a little more with David at the expense of the rest of his blood kin.  I noted that by the end of the pilot he seems to have softened quite a bit toward Vicki and no wonder:  No one else seems to want to have anything do with him.  No wonder he’s troubled.  And if one goes by the broadcast version of the pilot, we don’t get even a hint of any backstory to suggest why this is the case.

Elizabeth:  I like Jean Simmons, but Elizabeth is just words on a page to me right now.  She’s given so little to do.  There is just nothing to her.  When Mrs. Johnson laments that she doesn’t know what to do with Willie, Liz just puts her head in her hands.  Argh!  She looked very weak in that one scene and I lost a bit of respect for her.  The head of the family ought to be made of sterner stuff than that (I guess she is the head of the family.  She seems to be the oldest, but there is no dialogue at all in either version to indicate that definitely).  She looks dowdy most of the time, and that one outfit she wore – the black jumpsuit with white dickey and cuffs???  Hideous.  (Oh, and Taeylor, no worries, I didn’t think you were picking on my post in particular, but while I think that Liz might know who most of the town folk are, I am still surprised that everyone she meets in the episode knows her well enough to call her “Elizabeth.” :) )

Roger:  Fares better in the VHS version that the DVD/broadcast version, though, like David, without the extra scene, there is no backstory to even hint how he came to be so cold toward his son.

Carolyn:  Carolyn is apparently a photographer whose career, according to her dialogue, was just taking off in New York when her mother called her home.  I would have expected two New York girls who happen meet in a small town would have talked more about, well, New York.  Again, Carolyn’s and Vicki’s scenes together would have been a perfect opportunity for comparing notes on where they both lived and quizzing Vicki on why she came and building on the mysterious promise of Vicki’s voiceover.  And while, yes, there is a sexual innuendo to her dialogue with Vicki, she seems have the same performance toward her mother, the dude in the dance hall, etc.  This is another reason why she confuses me and puts me off, the signals are very very mixed.

Daphne:  Vampire bait written all over her.  And that is about the extent of her character.  She is the exact kind of character archetype that Joss Whedon would turn on its ear in creating Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The Collins Family and Collinwood in General:  Unlike the oil empires that are clearly established from the get go on Dallas and Dynasty (the main nighttime soaps I watched at the time), we learn nothing about the Collinses except that they are rich and apparently the big noise in the town that also bears their name.  How did they make their wealth and what keeps them rolling in dough now?  We are never told.  Also, they have a vast estate, but we see no staff but Mrs. Johnson and Willie (and before episode’s end, Willie leaves the main Collins family’s employ to work for Barnabas).  If there is any mystery about why this is so, it’s not mentioned.  If there are parts of the house closed off, that’s not even hinted at.  So we have a huge house and estate and it’s kept in immaculate shape by one old woman and her useless nephew.  Apparently, in New England, large estates with grounds and stables filled with horses take care of themselves.

Mrs. Johnson and Willie:  To paraphrase Mrs. J - all I can say is Mrs. Johnson must be a wonderful woman to take in her brother’s? sister’s? boy and try to get him to turn his life around by getting him work on the Collins estate.  I admire her for that.  Willie, fares better than many of the characters (it seems that the characters that have the most to do with Barnabas get better written that the rest).  As little time as they are seen to spend together, Barn and Willie in a way seem to have a much more intimate relationship than Barn has with anyone else, even Victoria.  I suppose the blood is one reason.  He is Barnabas’ protector during the day and Barnabas must rely on confide things to Willie that he never could to anyone else.  Having said that, he is cartoonish in the extreme:  nasty teeth, greasy, slovenly, a drunkard.  I’ll reiterate from my previous post that Fyfe and Going have a good presence together that made me yearn for a scene in the pick up where they can first connect especially when he meets her in the stable later.  He’s a good actor and does his scenes well: dumb, smarmy, belligerent, and later scared (of being blamed for the attack on Daphne) even terrified of Barnabas, but as Carolyn describes him, harmless.  However, we still have little to indicate how Willie got this way, though I suppose there is enough dialogue to suggest that Liz was doing Mrs. Johnson a favor allowing him to come work there (Who took care of the estate before he showed up???) and that she is either the only family he has left or the only family that will have anything to do with him.  He does seem to have enough affection for his aunt that he seems willing to share his riches with her.  But when she scoffs, he gives his you’ll see when I blow this dump on top of a pile of dough speech.

Last, but not least, Barnabas:  He is obviously, the star of the show and the entire episode, and it seems, the series, is written for him and about him.  Most of the episode leading up to his appearance at Collinwood was just marking time waiting for him to appear.  He’s the center of attention, not only the effing big portrait seen on the first landing of the big staircase, but also on his first visit to Collinwood,  everyone is seated and looking up at him standing in front of the fireplace.

Ben Cross is attractive and generally a good actor, but I sense he was uncomfortable with the way he was directed sometimes.  I expect Barnabas to be courtly, somewhat old fashioned, and polite and charming and he was in the main, but there were times when he sound positively disingenuous (“That is good news” sounds particularly phony) and it makes me think that Cross was told say it that way against his better instincts.  From previous posts and threads, I now know that DC had more to do with the scenery chewing hissing and snarling and gnashing of his teeth, so I don’t blame him for that, nor do I blame him for the way over the top end to the pilot mentioned in my earlier post.  In retrospect, however, those bits do a lot to diminish my respect for the character, and ups the cheese factor of the show.

In my opinion, Barnabas is the focus to the detriment of the rest of the cast and the show itself.  He is billed as its star, but as he is a vampire, his interest in Victoria cannot come to any kind of good end and anyone who is familiar with the standard issue horror clichés knows that the vampire story must eventually come to an end, and a pointy wooden end at that.  An ongoing series cannot keep this story going for long before it becomes repetitive, especially as we have already on a ten scale started off the story close to nine on the gore and gnashing teeth.  There is not much further to go here.

For a pilot for an ongoing series, I feel too little time has been spent so far on developing anyone else's characters and establishing B and/or C storylines to carry the show forward when the vampire story is done, which it must be.  I am wondering if there will be anyone else I am intrigued enough about to want to keep watching.  I am trying to take a never having seen the series approach and hoping that future episodes will round out characters and provide more interesting and varied storylines, but based solely on the pilot, everything is so sharply focused on the vampire love story in general and Barnabas in particular, I don’t hold out much hope that the series can go anywhere after this story is done.

(edited by admin)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 22, 2008, 07:36:13 PM
THANK YOU THANK YOU Midnite!  I didn't want to spread false information however I was 99% sure I had read an interview or watched one. And when I heard this it made total sense.  I didn't pick up on it when I was a teen but watching it as an adult I did!  I appreciate you backing this up.  Now that I know it's filmed I am gonna have go digging through some old videos!  [ghost_wink]

You're welcome, Taeylor.  If it helps, the DS fan who remembers seeing it also recalled that it was made available after the show was canceled, and that either Going or Blackburn refers specifically to the pilot scene in Vicki's bedroom (where Carolyn howls), and says that it was Blackburn's decision to play it as a seduction, which ultimately led to the scene being cut due to its lesbian undertones.  Then the two actresses get silly at pretending to be lovers.  I hope that helps someone here recall the interview!

Some great comments again, Nelson.  A mention is made in Part 1, btw, to most of the rooms being closed off.  And when Roger arrives to find Willie at the stables, he gives his horse over to a stable employee.  I don't mind having to imagine the groundskeeping crew with their leaf blowers, cuz god how I hate leaf blowers.

Elizabeth (I lol everytime the Sheriff drawls, "E-liz-a-beth") does seem to have an important role-- opening the door to visitors, except at dinnertime.  [ghost_tongue2]

For all practical purposes of this watching project, this IS the original series.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Gerard on September 22, 2008, 10:18:30 PM
I also found it a bit irksome that no mention is made as to why the Collins family is so wealthy.  What, exactly, do they own and do to get all that moola?  Is it the fishing industry?  Boat building?  Got in on the ground floor on Microsoft stock?

Gerard
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Zahir on September 22, 2008, 11:48:36 PM
I frankly admit to loving back story, and wish there were frankly more of it.  One is the whole question of where the Collins family get their money.  Perhaps the simplest would be that they essentially own most of the town.  That alone could have been the basis for a very nice income, coupled with some good investments.  And it might easily make Collinsport pretty much a feudal domain in some respects.

But then, I find myself intensely curious about Roger and Elizabeth's parents.

And yeah, where are all the many servants needed to keep up an estate that size?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Gerard on September 23, 2008, 01:23:42 AM
Maybe they just hired Merry Maids to come in once a week and tidy things up.

Gerard
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 23, 2008, 02:57:51 AM
Victoria:  We are treated to an intriguing voiceover from Victoria Winters telling us she “hopes to unlock the secrets of her past.”  Unfortunately, that tantalizing comment is never built upon.  There is a throwaway line from Roger about why a 25yo girl from New York would want to come to Collinsport, but otherwise it’s totally ignored.  I have no problem at all with Carolyn being attracted to Vicki, but I think those scenes would have been put to much better use learning more of Vicki’s story.  Why IS she there?  Where is her family?  Was she raised in an orphanage?  Did she leave friends or a boyfriend in New York?  Sadly, she is there simply because the script says she must be there.  A wasted opportunity.

First off! I hope you had a great time with your man.  [ghost_wink] It is a great for anyone to find love in this world.  And it is also AMAZING to have so much FAMILY on the boards.   I don't want to exclude anyone because feel like all of you all are my family.  I am just glad this board is gay friendly.  [ghost_smiley]

Now onto your post.  I think a lot of character development got lost in the fact that Dan Curtis probably most likely believed DS would get a 22 episode run instead of just the 12 episodes!  :(  I imagine it was crazy trying to figure what to leave in and what to try and bring to the screen.  They really had to get the story going to get to where we are headed.  :)  I know that doesn't make it any less frustrating.  There were a lot of hints dropped though and it I can only imagine  how wonderful a 22 episode Season Two of Dark Shadows could have been!  I think it would have delved [spoiler]deeper into Victoria's past and the ensemble cast![/spoiler]

Onto some pictures.  Can I just say I want Julia's bag! LOL  I would love to have it setting as a piece around my electicly decorated apt!  I love the chain strap!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Philippe Cordier on September 23, 2008, 03:09:31 AM
Good points by everyone ... an especially good one is Nelson Collins' about how there is no development of any mystery about Victoria Winters' background, no explanation about where she's from or why she came to Collinwood.  And your comments about Jean Simmons are honestly painful and ones I haven't seen voiced before, but they were my impressions, too, as I recalled from my original viewing.  Ms. Simmons needed more to work with; at least so far, her character is just bland and there's not much there there.

I have a hard time building any empathy with David.

Although I haven't gotten to the part with Sarah's ghost yet, I remember from my previous viewing that she looked authentically 18th century with her bonnet and dress.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 23, 2008, 03:23:01 AM
Sarah was dressed very authentic.  I personally[spoiler] believe that the wardrobe department did an amazing job during the 1790 flashback.[/spoiler]  According to the 1991 Dark Shadows Concordance they really did their home work!! 
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 23, 2008, 04:46:19 PM
It's fascinating to read about the behind the scenes "battles" (for want of a better word) that the writers went through, not only because of the things DC wanted to do, but because of the way NBC wanted things done. DC had wanted 20-24 hours, but NBC would only commit to 13. Some of the writers had believed they shouldn't have done the 1790 flashback with only those 13 hours to tell the initial story, but DC insisted on the flashback. However, DC had originally wanted 10 to 14 hours for 1790, whereas the network had only wanted 4(!), so 6 hours became the compromise. Matt Hall lamented that there were many long writing sessions simply devoted to what was going to be discarded. and I believe his words were they "cut and cut and cut again." Delving deeper into many of the characters' backgrounds was put off until season two. And for what it's worth, the '91 series planned to eventually reveal that Vicki was Elizabeth's daughter (that revelation is indeed made in the DCP sanctioned '91 series comics, which flirted with a few of the actual plans that the writers had put on hold for season two). But alas, the series ended before that could happen...
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 23, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
Yeah and then those comics got cancelled on a cliffhanger!  GRRR....or more to the point Innovation went out of business!  The comics were really good though and I enjoyed getting to delve deeper into the '91 DS!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Cassandra Blair on September 23, 2008, 06:59:00 PM
That's really fascinating, MB! There really doesn't seem to be any hint that Victoria might be a Collins, at least thus far in the series. It might be fun to take a look at those comics, if they're still available anywhere.

I too really wish there was more character development. But I don't have a real problem with them not explaining why the Collins family is rich - since we know they've had money for years, I'm not sure it would come up naturally so early in the series. Maybe it's just my imagination, but didn't Carolyn mention to Vicki (maybe in the first episode) that nobody knows how many rooms Collinwood has, and most of them are shut up anyway? While I think it's a bit weird for the family to be so incurious about how many rooms their own ancestral home has, most of them being closed up might explain why there aren't many servants.

Agreed with all, Carolyn is weird, and her teeth-sucking, hip-swinging performance certainly does send mixed signals about what the actress is trying to portray. Elizabeth isn't given enough to do, and we really don't know why Victoria Winters is there, what's up with Roger or why David is so hostile. It's all a bit frustrating, but I find it also makes me curious as to what might be revealed.

Barnabas (or maybe a Barnabas/Victoria relationship) is clearly meant to be at the center of the series, and I have to think that if they'd continued, the writers (particularly if they'd had DC breathing down their necks) would have found a way to keep Barnabas (or the B/V 'ship) as the focus of the show. They do seem to have chemistry, and the portrait of Josette looking like Victoria raises lots of questions that they could've taken a long time to answer. Maybe Victoria was drawn to Collinwood because it's where she lived her past life; maybe she could sense that her lover from the 18th century was returning home. That's what I tend to read into it.

Does anyone else think it's strange that the Old House is just sitting there on the property, mouldering? Or that David would be allowed to play in an old wreck like that? And whoever mentioned that it's hard to tell the Old House from Collinwood? I get them confused too - they look like the same place.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: michael c on September 23, 2008, 08:42:46 PM
high-waist,wide-pleat trousers oh how i loath thee!i had tried to wipe these from my sartorial memory bank but this series is resplendent with them.

mysterious' highly detailed wardrobe description reveals that the clothing being worn was purchased at high toned establishments like the lamented 'i.magnin' and i presume were supposed to look "rich" but they don't look expensive to me.

vicki is attired strangely.she gets these very "romantic" looking getups like-lace collared blouses,cameos and flowing floral print skirts but they're topped by puffy,incongruously sporty looking jackets.weird.liz gets one of these too at the hospital and it doesn't suit her.she doesn't look "regal" enough.

i'm trying to figure out what kind of heroine victoria winters is.she's pretty.she's nice.she sticks up for underdogs like willie and blandly tolerates david's antics.this is meant to convey that she's "kind" and "virtuous" and of course worthy of an undead suitor's ardor.like most heroines her supporting cast gets to be more "colorful" and "eccentric' than she is.still she's not quite as "ingenueish" as some heroines one sees(wink).

but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

here we learn that david has friend named "sarah" whom of course everyone will assume at first is a figment of his imagination.when pressed vicki gives that classically patronizing "i believe she's real...to you" line that would infuriate any savvy kid.
david nearly stumbles across barnabas' coffin at the old house.did i miss something?i thought the coffin was in a mausoleum or at the very least a secret chamber.how did it end up on a platform at the bottom of the stairs in a house teaming with workmen?

carolyn gyrating at the blue whale.something about this seems familiar(wink).turns out this is a clumsy setup for some carnage.carolyn gets hit on by some drunken townie riffraff.his equally drunk floozy girlfriend "gloria" stomps out in a jealous huff.two instantly introduced,easily disposable characters.i see where this is going.of course they end up toast but in a crowded bar parking lot?barnabas is attracting too much unwanted attention.he needs to be more cautious.more discreet.

we see later how discreet he can be when he tosses his next victim off widows hill.some sloppy work on the part of the makeup department that this victim has bloody wounds on her neck after being immersed in salt water.wouldn't that wash the blood away?whatev.

was maggie evans even in this episode?i kind of like her.

we end with julia hoffan's introduction and boy is she on to barnabas like frosting on a cupcake.we see where this plot development is going.

fun episode.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 23, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
I recommend getting a hold of Kathleen Resch's SHADOWS IN THE 90's! It has some great stuff in it!  I also recommend you get Dark Shadows Ressurected if you don't already have them!  They have a wealth of information.  The Pom Press stuff isn't always the gospel though!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 23, 2008, 08:49:40 PM
I think Julia's introduction is the best on the series.  Like Midnite said "A Goddess in Black!" :)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Cassandra Blair on September 23, 2008, 09:29:01 PM
Dr. Julia Hoffman certainly is introduced as a character of importance - it's almost like they want you to believe she's going to be the Van Helsing of the piece. The way they slowly pan up from her boots, showing her turn around dramatically on the platform holding that umbrella in the rain, looking fabulous (despite the braid, which to me gives her a vaguely dominatrix look). You think: here is a character that is going to be in charge, and will likely be a match for the vampire. I too love Barbara Steele. I'm pretty sure she's my favorite actor on the show.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: KMR on September 23, 2008, 11:36:41 PM
And whoever mentioned that it's hard to tell the Old House from Collinwood? I get them confused too - they look like the same place.

While I totally understand that they used one location for budgetary reasons, they should have tried to go to greater lengths to distinguish the Old House from Collinwood.  Even the miniature was just a single structure, filmed from different angles to suggest one house or the other.  Maybe if they had built and used more soundstage sets, instead of using Greystone for *everything* except the Great Hall.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Midnite on September 24, 2008, 02:01:32 AM
Speaking of character development, with this dialogue missing from the DVD of the pilot...

(from Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 1)
Elizabeth assures him that in time they'll get to know each other, but Roger says, "I'm not so sure, dear sister."

... I can't think of any other references in the DVD of Part 1 or 2 to their being brother and sister.  Elizabeth doesn't call David her nephew, Carolyn doesn't call Roger her uncle, etc.  When Elizabeth tells Vicki that "Mr. Collins" will be down soon, it could mean that they're married.  And IINM, doesn't Barnabas come calling for Mrs. Collins?  So, besides the age difference between the 2 actors, with the above scene cut, how are viewers supposed to figure out their relationship?

but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

LOL!  I thought the chiffon was a bit much, but dreamily brushing her hair in a beautiful room after a steamy date with a hot and attentive man who put thoughts in her head that the two of them are reincarnated lovers... Um, what was the question again??!  ;)

Maybe by the time she checked on David, changed out of her dress, brushed her teeth and stared into the mirror for a while, enough time had passed for Barnabas to return to the Old House before strolling back to do his growly thing, which might explain why he's no longer holding the cane in those final scenes.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 24, 2008, 06:22:54 AM
...but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

I doubt it Msbryk!!! It's great for gothic romance though in my opinion!

LOL!  I thought the chiffon was a bit much, but dreamily brushing her hair in a beautiful room after a steamy date with a hot and attentive man who put thoughts in her head that the two of them are reincarnated lovers... Um, what was the question again??!  ;)

EXACTLY!!! ;)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 25, 2008, 06:28:48 PM
the clothing being worn was purchased at high toned establishments like the lamented 'i.magnin' and i presume were supposed to look "rich" but they don't look expensive to me.

Though at least, unlike many other shows, the '91 series purchased actual name brand clothes at high end stores rather than rely on knockoffs from a certain store whose slogan was "high fashion at low prices."  [ghost_wink]  [ghost_grin]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: michael c on September 26, 2008, 01:41:17 AM
quel scandale!

you mean the clothes from that store were knock-offs?

i always thought they were fresh off the runway at the paris haute couture...

what a let down. [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Watching Project 2 on September 26, 2008, 02:00:02 AM
Previews:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/Previews_1.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(Pay attention because one of the scenes in the preview will not show up in either Ep #2 or Ep #3 - but it will show up later on...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 26, 2008, 03:26:06 AM
Thanks MB!! :)  Another great view! Can't wait for tommorrow! I hope your feeling better!  BTW..I was reading about a 60 minutes episode that was watched by 42 million people when the war broke out. I think it aired on Sunday Jan. 20!   It didn't air against DS, however it shows us that episodic TV wasn't on everyones mind.  I mean no disrespect to the horrible horrible things were happening at the time.  However, even since I was a kid I never preferred the news as it made me depressed.  I have probably watched more this year than ever because I am ashamed to admit it but it's my first time voting and I am trying to educate myself! 

Sorry to get to so off topic.  I thought the ratings for 60 minutes kind of showed what the world was in thralled with at the time!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Gothick on September 26, 2008, 07:41:50 PM
I agree with Cassandra Blair that Julia's braid always, to me, gives her that certain dominatrix air right from the get-go.  Too bad Barbara wasn't allowed to stalk through Collinwood in leather catsuits and stiletto boots for a special West Hollywood look *cheeky grin*.

I'm laughing out of my ... uh, face, at the notion of Julia being "right onto Barnabas like frosting on a cupcake."  Thanks, MSC.

It's too bad they didn't pursue defining Carolyn as a predatory bisexual minx.  After all, Amanda Donohoe had done her fabulous thing on LA Law just a year or two before this.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: michael c on September 26, 2008, 09:25:39 PM
true gothick...

i'm on the fence about much of this series but am becoming quite appreciative of the "minxy" barbara blackburns' take on carolyn stoddard.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Gothick on September 26, 2008, 09:38:34 PM
My roommate's view was that Carolyn had already had an illustrious career working the street out in WeHo before she "welcomed" Miss Winters to Collinwood.  He almost literally fell out of his chair and rolled around the floor laughing at some of the fashions Miss Stoddard sports in later episodes.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 28, 2008, 10:10:19 PM
One of the biggest shames to me about the '91 series is that the last scene Vicki and Carolyn share (except for when they're in a group) takes place in this second half of the pilot when Carolyn drops Vicki off at the stables. TPTB certainly seemed to be setting them up to be good friends (sexual innuendos aside  ;)), but apparently in the "cut and cut and cut again" there was just no time to develop the relationship on screen. But then, as we'll see, their two paths do go off in very different directions...

The attraction between Barnabas and Vicki is unmistakable - and the best part of it is that it is indeed mutual. When they're in the same room, they can't resist checking each other out, and once they're alone together, they can't resist touching each other. Their chemistry is off the charts. (One can only hope the chemistry between Barnabas and whomever will be as palpable in the Depp/DS film.)

Purely from a production standpoint, and as someone who has a pretty good idea of what the inside of Greystone looks like from having seen several different shows/movies featuring it, I find it fascinating to see how they shoot doorways, stairways and rooms to make it appear as if they're seamlessly connected when in fact the production is running all over the house and utilizing totally different locations, often in completely different wings of the house.

Carolyn is sex on legs. That's all I have to say on that subject.  [wink2]

I do find it fascinating that Josette's room was sealed off from the rest of the house. It gives the audience the definite impression that there is so much more to her story than at first meets the eye, and one can't help but wonder what would possess anyone to go to such lengths to try to forget her room ever existed.

Say what you will about the violence of Barnabas beating of Willie - and there is absolutely no denying its ferocious violence - but I really like how that scene is immediately juxtaposed with a deeply anguished Barnabas rushing into Josette's room to proclaim that she has come back to him. It shows two decidedly different and seemingly incongruous sides to Barnabas' personality and certainly clues the audience into the fact that Barnabas is a hugely complicated man.

The thing that I like about the idea that a real vampire is responsible for the attacks is that it isn't fully given credence by anyone until after Julia hypnotizes Daphne and she describes her assailant's teeth and red eyes. Up to that point the theory is still that the attacker is some human lunatic - but it's Daphne's own words that give it a different spin. It's not merely anyone jumping to the conclusion on their own based on what the evidence might appear to indicate - they're provided with first hand evidence to go on. Though even at that, no one at this point is willing to give voice to even the suspicion that the attacker is indeed a real vampire.

And finally - as was the case with the first half of the pilot, there were several scenes or parts of scenes that were shot but not included in the final edit. But I'll leave an explanation of them for another post.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 13, 2008, 11:16:10 PM
The cut or clipped scenes from the second half of the pilot:

We've already mentioned the scene between Vicki and Carolyn when Carolyn drives Vicki to the stables.

Victoria and David are discussing Sara in his room ... David knows she's humoring him - "You're just pretending. You don't really believe she's real." Victoria tells him, if Sara is real for him, that's what counts. "I know that when I was a little girl your age, I had a small friend by the name of Amy, and no one believed me either. But she was real, David... real to me." David, "What did you used to do with this Amy?" "I talked to her, we told each other things, we played games together." "Do you still see her?" "I stopped seeing her a long time ago." "Why?" "Oh, when I was eleven or twelve." "Then she wasn't real. I'm never gonna stop seeing Sara." "That's the way I felt too, but you'll see. There'll come a time when you won't need her anymore." She's certain they'll be good friends. She leaves.

Barnabas is happy to discover Victoria at the Old House... Noticing Willie is still hanging around, Barnabas raises his voice: "Thank you, Willie. If I need you, I'll call." Willie finally leaves. Barnabas laughs softly, "I believe you've made a conquest, Victoria. Willie seems quite smitten with you." Victoria, becoming slightly nervous, says, "Willie's not so bad," and adds she must be going, but Barnabas persuades her to stay. Victoria, "You've done so much here in such a short time." They start up toward camera. Barnabas, "Do you like it?" Victoria, "It's beautiful." Barnabas, "Yes... All great works are... The work of writers, of painters, the great buildings of Europe, the pyramids..." "But I see happiness here. The pyramids were designed to be tombs." "Of course, you are right... But this house was never meant to be a tomb."
Interior. Upstairs Corridor. Pan With Them as they walk By Camera, start along the upstairs corridor.
Barnabas, "My ancestors designed it to represent a marriage between the elegance of Europe and the promise of a new world."
They continue along the hallway. Barnabas reveals his discovery - a room that clearly once was boarded up.
(Part of this sequence appears on MPI's DS Resurrected VHS.)

...the scene continues... Victoria is enthralled and chilled by the story (of Josette's death). Becoming ueasy, she decides she must return to Collinwood. Barnabas apologizes - "How unthinking of me" - and escorts her out.
Interior. Foyer as they come down the stairs.
Victoria, "I still can't get over how much that portrait looks like me." Barnabas, "Perhaps the next time you are here, I can tell you more of the family history." "I'd like that. I'd especially like to hear more about Josette." They stop by the front door. he smiles at her, this is exactly what he wanted to hear. Reluctantly he opens the door, holds her gaze. Victoria, "Goodnight, Barnabas." Barnabas, "Goodnight, Victoria." He watches her intently as she goes. Then, slowly closing the door, he turns, glares up the stairs.
Barnabas shouts savagely for Willie, who races on to the landing.

Barnabas and Victoria are discussing Josette's music box... Victoria, "The greatest gifts are always those given with love... no matter what they might be." Barnabas, "Yes... no matter what they might be." He takes her hand. He looks deeply into her eyes. "Have you ever been in love, Victoria? Truly in love?" Victoria, "Once... and you?" "Yes... once." Their eyes hold a beat, then the tune comes to an end. Victoria closes the box. Victoria reveals she haunted by the image of Josette - "It's almost as if in some strange way we're connected... Across time and the centuries..."

...the scene continues... The clock chimes, reminding Victoria of the hour. "It's late. I should be going and you've hardly touched your plate." Barnabas, "The pleasure of your company, Victoria, is more than enough for me." Barnabas calls to Willie and informs him he's taking Victoria to Collinwood.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 13, 2008, 11:23:12 PM
Thank a lot MB.   Do you have the original scripts or something.  IF I am being nosy just say so!  So much character development murdered!! GRR [BOO]