DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on February 21, 2007, 06:05:44 AM
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Robservations - #238
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Would someone be so kind as to give me the corresponding VHS volume number to this episode? It would be most appreciated. Thanks.
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Volume 47, Ep #4. :)
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Very interesting show. I can imagine watching the show and not knowing what will happen. This would have been very suspenseful. Vickie and Maggie at the Old House in Josettes' room. Where is Maggie? Are they going to see her?
Willie knows by now that Maggie is there. He is very scared and upset. I like the line that Barnabas says about Willie wanting to protect people. He does know.
I this episode you see that Barnabas wants to bring back his life. He wants it to be the way it should have been. Here we see the mix of human Barn and the vampire Barn. Really good show.
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Episode #238
I felt it was unfair that Vicki and Carolyn were told to stay home and not go out until Maggie is found. They've done nothing wrong and this is like being under house arrest for a crime you didn't commit. The Sheriff had supposedly issued this order for all the women. Yeah right. The kidnapper is at large and the innocent must suffer. I'd say it would be better if they all go out in groups of three or more and not feel they are all being punished for something they are not responsible for. Later on [spoiler]when Maggie is home again from Wyndcliff it will be more of the same. She'll be under house arrest while the kidnapper roams free. UNFAIR!![/spoiler]
When Vicki and Carolyn went to the Old House the door opened on it's own after Vicki knocked. I think this happens again in another episode. Why can't Willie buy a bolt for that door? Later he finds Carolyn and Vicki in Josette's room which must've freaked him out. People just suddenly showing up in the house without his knowledge, well Barn might be upset about that. And it seems the problem would easily be solved with a deadbolt lock.
I liked when Vicki and Carolyn complimented Willie's work. Vicki at least seems to notice the change in him though in her eyes he was rude to order them out like he did. It's the second time she's been ordered out by him, but she does have this habit of just walking in.
Where was Maggie? They were in the room Barn has given her and when they go in there you have to wonder if she will just show up. They were there quite a while looking things over. Where was she?
I felt sorry for Willie when he worried about things being touched. Why was he so upset? If Maggie was using the room now surely she was touching these things and probably wouldn't be so upset.
Alondra
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The order the sheriff issued was that females were not to be out walking alone at night. That's not the same as house arrest, and Carolyn may think it unreasonable, but I don't feel that Liz, who is being maternal, nor the sheriff, who has evidence that a madman is preying on local women at night, is out of line here.
Speaking of which, Barnabas has gone way beyond eccentric and is now being overtly creepy and weird.
Good save by Vicki when her right foot snagged the wire that had been rigged to close the door.
Is Josette still in the house? I know Barnabas vanquished her power over him, but did her ghost remain?
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Is Josette still in the house? I know Barnabas vanquished her power over him, but did her ghost remain?
I think from that point on Josette only makes select appearances whenever Barnabas is in trouble. Who knows where she went? [idontknow]
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I agree. I think the sheriff is doing the right thing by insisting no women go out by themselves at night. After what happened to Maggie, the last thing he needs is another missing female (or a dead one) to have to deal with.
This just occured to me: instead of trying to turn someone else into the image of Josette and getting rid of Josette's spirit, why didn't Barnabas simply try to take control of her ghost? [spoiler]After all, he tried it once before, after her fall from Widows' Hill, he forced her spirit from the grave. Or did he think she was still horribly disfigured?[/spoiler]
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Vicki goes out onto the stoop to pick up the daily paper. I love the idea of some poor kid biking their ass all the way to Collinwood from town just to sling the paper at the door. I imagine the driveway up to the house is long and tree lined as well.
I agree with Midnite about the sheriff's actions. Up to this point there's been escalating attacks on female members of the community, resulting in a kidnapping. Lord knows I wouldn't be going out after dark alone, if I absolutely had to, I'd be packing for sure.
Nice exterior shot of the girls walking up to the Old House. It's a shame later on that they resorted to blue screen overlays only. Is Vicki wearing Roger's coat? It looks gigantic on her!
Vicki takes pride in the restorations as if she herself had done them. Seriously girl, calm down! Her constant barging into the house and wandering about on her own is very rude and I think she has better manners than that.
Where is Josette's room in the placement of the house? It's window placements and the hallway outside don't really match the exterior of the house. Perhaps it's in the backside of the house?
As to where Maggie was, since Barnabas wakes up while Vicki and Carolyn are still in the house, perhaps she was downstairs standing by his coffin until he woke. When he did he might have sensed their presence in the house and willed her to remain in the basement until Vicki and Carolyn left.
Favorite line of dialogue: You can't just walk into a place!
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Favorite line of dialogue: You can't just walk into a place!
But has a closed door or even a locked door stopped someone on DS! ;D When there is closed door on DS it is almost saying come in, come in!
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I did say that they should go out in groups of two or three, not alone. Not unless they were packing a pistol, which we know would not have stopped Barnabas (unless it had silver bullets) but the idea of anyone being forced to change their lifestyle because of what someone else is doing is not fair. I doubt that many women were in the habit of going out by themselves alone at night anyway, then or now since there are a lot of risks to it. They can still go out with a man or in groups. Even Barnabas wouldn't have bothered them if they were in groups.
Alondra
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The clip with Vicky and Carolyn approaching the Old House is fun to watch. Gosh, that house is big! We see so little of the inside of it, even in 1795. I like to imagine a ballroom somewhere in there.
And behold the enterprising Vicky, wandering upstairs around somebody else's house, and asking (it was Vicky, wasn't it?) which is Barnabas's bedroom. No wonder she had no qualms about snooping around in Angelique's room later on. I wonder what sort of reputation she had back at the foundling home.
Interesting that Elizabeth says she's already seen some of the restoration work that's been done on the Old House. I hadn't noticed that in previous watchings. How does that work? Is it that Elizabeth doesn't leave the house of Collinwood, or is it that she doesn't leave the estate of Collinwood? I never got that straight. It always seems to me that it must be that she doesn't leave the house because she can't exactly keep an eye on the basement from outside, but now it turns out she's visited the Old House, and sometime later there's a mention of her flower garden. Or was that something that Matthew Morgan did for her? She looks out the window at the flowers, and she smiles, and he thinks to himself, "It's all worthwhile. My back is killing me from the digging, and I'll never get the dirt out from under my fingernails, but Mrs. Stoddard smiled at me. Well, anyway, at my flowers."
Barnabas says of Maggie Evans, "She's a very nice girl." That got to me. "Oh, yes, girls, I may be a Collins of the purest blood, and I'm too refined to know that sex exists, but I can deign to notice a coffeeshop waitress. I think I may even have tipped her a dime once." And thinks to himself, "Who wants nice? I'm turning her into something far, far better."
As for Maggie's whereabouts...my theory is that Willie had been escorting her to the outhouse, and left her there so she could do what she had to do in private, and that's why he wasn't in the house when Vicky and Carolyn arrived but did show up later. I guess she made it back to the house by herself.
John Karlen was wonderful, as usual.
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About the business of not going out after dark...I remember reading an article 30 years or so ago. I think that it was by Laura Shapiro, and that it appeared in the Real Paper of blessed Cambridge memory. It suggested that an after-dark curfew be imposed on all men, and pointed out that this would not be so outrageous, given that there was, for all intents and purposes, an after-dark curfew on women in the city. This would just make it so that it was the other sex that couldn't go out.
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Be sure to check out these (hopefully ;)) humorous topics related to this episode:
From "Caption This!":
From "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s)":
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lydia,
i remember when i first started watching the show being confused about whether or not liz never left the house proper or just the estate.
they made a very big deal about how she hadn't left collinwood for eighteen years yet she could be made absent when the plot dictated that someone be alone in the house.
if you watch carefully it's explained that liz doesn't ever leave collinwood the estate.on numerous occasions she visits matthew morgan at his cottage and later on laura at this same location.there's talk of her visiting i believe a greenhouse or some of the other outbuildings on the property and she of course visits widow's hill on many occasions as well.
so one can assume the old house was not out of bounds.
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Interesting that Elizabeth says she's already seen some of the restoration work that's been done on the Old House.
We saw Liz visit the Old House in Ep #223. ;)
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You're right, I completely forgot about that - and it didn't strike me at the time. I'm back to wondering: how is Liz going to keep an eye on the Collinwood basement from the Old House?
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About the business of not going out after dark...I remember reading an article 30 years or so ago. I think that it was by Laura Shapiro, and that it appeared in the Real Paper of blessed Cambridge memory. It suggested that an after-dark curfew be imposed on all men, and pointed out that this would not be so outrageous, given that there was, for all intents and purposes, an after-dark curfew on women in the city. This would just make it so that it was the other sex that couldn't go out.
I read something to this effect, that when it was suggested to impose a curfew on the women during a time when rapes were taking place someone switched it around and said since it's men who are doing the raping, let them be the ones under a curfew.
As for Liz I agree that it seems she'd stay inside the house at all times since she couldn't keep an eye on the basement from another house or cottage on the property, and even inside the house, when she was upstairs, she couldn't always know what was happening downstairs. Seems with that huge bolt on the door she should have felt safe (at least til Jason showed up) but apparently not.
Alondra
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As for Liz I agree that it seems she'd stay inside the house at all times since she couldn't keep an eye on the basement from another house or cottage on the property
Though as mscbryck has already mentioned in reply #13, it was made clear that Liz doesn't stay in the house all the time and that she roams the estate freely (why does that make her sound like a free range chicken? [lghy]) on occasion.
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This was a fun episode and a very scary one with the girls exploring all the new and delightful things in the Old House. I could feel the excitement in the girls as they looked at all the beautiful things but at the same time, I wondered, where was Willie!?
First, what made the door open in the first place? Could it have just been Vicki's knocking as she supposed? Then Vicki yells for Willie several times but he never responded. I found that rather unlikely since it was getting close to dusk and he was usually close for when Barnabas appeared. The door slamming in Josette's room came as a surprise since there's no wind in that room. But where's Maggie? I wondered where they had her locked up if she's not in Josette's room. Willie showing up suddenly was a very good scary effect. Poor thing, so nervous that the girls were in the house just before dusk and wanting to get them out. I was surprised he didn't walk them downstairs but his attention was directed to the neatness of the room. Maybe if it was messed up, Barnabas would get very angry with him and he wanted to avoid that at all costs.
When Barnabas did show it, which was creepy in itself, I would have thought that would surprise the girls. One minute, no one is around and the next, the two occupants are there without overcoats. But where's Maggie in all this? Oh there she is, walking down the stairs in a wedding dress, going to dinner. What an ending!! Was that KLS? The credits didn't say so I'm guessing it was her stand-in. We still have 6 people on the show. Don't stand-ins get paid?
Very good episode.
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if i may make one more observation on the subject i wonder if it was originally planned that elizabeth never left the house at all(that was implied in the earliest of episodes)but that that became too limitting in terms of her character and how other plots could unfold?
for intance she was conveniently made absent in a few episodes where the plot dictated that vicki be left alone on the house.[spoiler]one being the episode where david lures vicki to the closed-off section of the house and locks her in.the other time being where roger grabs her and places his hand over her mouth to prevent her from screaming during the time she thought he was involved in bill malloy's death.[/spoiler]
during these episodes i was like "where's liz?" but it gets hastily explained that she was somewhere on the grounds with matthew or mrs.johnson.
of course she couldn't have had her awsome showdowns with [spoiler]laura if she couldn't storm into her cottage and she couldn't have comtemplated jumping from widows' hill during the jason mcquire plot if she couldn't leave the house either.[/spoiler]
i remember in some later episodes where liz was "in town" how strange it was to see her away from collinwood.
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of course she couldn't have had her awsome showdowns with [spoiler]laura if she couldn't storm into her cottage and she couldn't have comtemplated jumping from widows' hill during the jason mcquire plot if she couldn't leave the house either.[/spoiler]
i remember in some later episodes where liz was "in town" how strange it was to see her away from collinwood.
And, of course, the huge deal it was when Liz went into town after [spoiler]Carolyn was arrested.[/spoiler]
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if i may make one more observation on the subject i wonder if it was originally planned that elizabeth never left the house at all(that was implied in the earliest of episodes)but that that became too limitting in terms of her character and how other plots could unfold?
Neat idea!
And, of course, the huge deal it was when Liz went into town
Yes, that's what I was remembering when I assumed that she never left the house. There's this great scene with Elizabeth walking out the front door of Collinwood as if she were going through an iron curtain into another world - when in fact she's probably been in and out of that door a dozen times that day already. It's too bad they didn't have a set for the gates to the estate; that would have made a lot more sense for the scene.
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As I watched this episode, it struck me that Vickie again was acting stupid in my opinion. Remember the old expression, "Curosity killed the cat?" [7385] Too bad she didn't listen to Carolyn. That was pretty rude to be walking around the house. It was nice to see them impressed with the work that was done, but they should NOT have walked in - especially since the door opened by itself. That would have scared me enough to run away! [shkdg]
I was wondering where Maggie was, too. Perhaps the speculation about Willie escorting her to the outhouse explains it. But then how did Maggie get upstairs so she could walk down them at the end of the episode? Is there a rear entrance to the house? [idontknow]
Wonderful scenes, as usual, with Barnabas and Willie. JK did an excellent job again! [cheer] I noticed a blooper in this episode. Something crashed and broke off-camera when Barnabas and Willie were talking after Vickie and Carolyn left. They were so professional, nobody even batted an eye when it happened. It amazes me how they can stay focused during those times. [bigok]
----- Sally -----
[coolg]
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Is there a rear entrance to the house?
Yes, we see it once in 1795, in a scene between Angelique and Nathan Forbes.