DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Watching Project on December 16, 2008, 10:06:09 PM
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Robservations #697
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Golly, now Barnabas is as bad as Chris, forgetting when the full moon is coming. I'd like to think he was only pretending to be surprised when Roger mentioned the full moon, but that doesn't make sense. And then he didn't bother to plan ahead of time to make sure Chris would get to the mausoleum before the transformation took place. Where is Julia? I would have thought that she would be more organized about this. Oh, well, maybe she's up at Windcliff raiding the sedative cabinet. I was thinking, when Roger said he wouldn't be able to sleep, that she should be able to help him with that.
Barnabas was unfeeling, in fact he was downright cruel, when he told Ned, "Chris is in love with my cousin." Ned's reaction was completely understandable. Even if Chris is in love with Carolyn, he shouldn't refuse to help Sabrina if he can. And a visit would be a nice thing for him to do. He can't tell himself this isn't his fault. Maybe she'll blurt out his secret - but that's a risk worth taking, in order to maintain himself as a human being.
I can't believe that the sight of Barnabas's cane upset Sabrina. It doesn't look like the werewolf!
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Barnabas was unfeeling, in fact he was downright cruel, when he told Ned, "Chris is in love with my cousin." Ned's reaction was completely understandable. Even if Chris is in love with Carolyn, he shouldn't refuse to help Sabrina if he can. And a visit would be a nice thing for him to do. He can't tell himself this isn't his fault. Maybe she'll blurt out his secret - but that's a risk worth taking, in order to maintain himself as a human being.
Forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for Ned (RD's worst character bar none)....I can't get over the way he gets rough with Sabrina at times....not something I would expect from a supposedly loving and devoted brother.
Barnabas was just telling it like it was to Ned in regards to Chris and Carolyn (granted he probably should have told him in a more tactful way).
Honestly, what can Chris really do for Sabrina anyway? It really wasn't his fault what happened to her....he did try and get her to leave his place when he was about to change. He didn't know she would come back after he had changed. And he DID go to visit her the other day with Julia, and what good did it do? All she did was stand and collapse....and added more guilty and despair over Chris' head.
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I think Ned wants a confession, maybe so the information will lead to a solution, or maybe just so Chris will admit his guilt, which is a pretty perverse reason to drag your ill sister around the state or country (wherever they came from).
Ned could have been developed into an interesting hypocritical character, who should really be separated from his sister. He clearly has problems of his own that weren't really delved into. It would have been satisfying to see him come to some sticky sort of end. Storylines seem to have the main villain, and the hidden backup villain who reveals himself later, so maybe that was Ned. That theory just popped into my head just then by the way, I can only think of Forbes as an example.
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Was Ned suppossed to be sympathetic? It would have been much more interesting had he played it that way instead of thrusing his sister about in a wheelchair, groping her like he owned her, and leaving her hair in a state resembling a rat's nest. So it has turned grey overnight, it could still be cut, and how expensive was a bottle of dye in the 1960's. Frankly, I don't find Sabrina that sympathetic either.
It was again nice to her Maggie say, "He called me by another name." and then announce that he wanted to erase Maggie Evans. What a good time it would be for her to remember the past when Barnabas tried that with her and throw that into the storyline mix.
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At this point, I don't think we have seen any particularly outrageous behavior from Ned, other than knocking on other people's doors and planting himself in other people's houses in the middle of the night.[spoiler]It's in the next episode that things get really bad.[/spoiler]
For two years, as far as we can tell, Ned has been his sister's sole caretaker. This probably means that he dresses her, he bathes her, he feeds her, he wipes her nose, he changes her Depends. He is the only person in the world who gives her any love. I can't fault him too far for anything physical that we have seen so far. As for her hair, dying and cutting it would be a major pain for him to keep up.
Julia suggested that Sabrina should be in an institution. Who really wants to be in an institution? Especially with the sort of nurses they have on Dark Shadows. Ned is Sabrina's only alternative.
Maybe Chris can't improve Sabrina's condition, but here's what he can do for her: he can visit her. Talk to her. Tell her she looks pretty today. Take over the feeding duty occasionally. Granted, his one visit to her ended unfortunately, but he can try again, instead of just shoving her out of his mind.
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But Chris HASN'T shoved her out of his mind....he feels tremendous guilt over what happened to her. He probably feels he can't help her because of the way he is. How can he help Sabrina's self-confidence when he doesn't have any himself? Is it really fair that he should have to feel guilty time and time again by seeing her? Especially with the load of guilt he's already carrying?
Now once he's found a way to help himself, he probably would be able to be a lot more to help her.
I don't think an institiution is really such a bad idea...but not Windcliff (as you pointed out, the help there isn't all that reliable). They do have psychiatrists. Sabrina would be cared for and looked after, I think the doctors could be a lot more helpful to her than Ned has been.
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I think maybe we're talking about two different things, IluvBarnabas . You are looking towards a recovery for Sabrina, and I am looking towards making her present condition more bearable for her.
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i haven't seen these episodes in a long time(although i'm nearing them again)but i remember being annoyed at the condition ned kept sabrina in...
her hair went white from shock...we get it...but would it have killed him to run a brush through his sister's hair once in awhile,perhaps tie a bow,and apply her makeup with a less heavy hand?
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It really wasn't his fault what happened to her....he did try and get her to leave his place when he was about to change. He didn't know she would come back after he had changed.
I think Chris was, at the very least, negligent. Even if he never intended to harm Sabrina (or anyone else) and tried to stop the tragedy once it was in motion, did he do reasonably enough to prevent it in the first place? I don't think so.
(I'm suddenly imagining Jack McCoy charging Chris with criminal negligence and Chris refusing his attorney's advice that he plead insanity. But that's a Law & Order junkie for you. [santa_rolleyes])
I think Sabrina totally needs to be in a psychiatric care facility, though my reason for thinking Windcliff isn't the best choice is that her recovery would be contrary to Julia's interests. But Ned is so NOT what she needs. He knows Sabrina can hear yet talks incessantly about her problems while she's in earshot. And there's: "If the only way I can make her remember is to shock her out of it, then I'm willing to." No no no. And no! Meds. Therapy. We saw that she can become agitated to the point of collapse. Persons with catatonia can be rigid, and they don't divulge their physical complaints. (As a nursing student, I cared for a catatonic patient-- a victim of rape-- who went into early labor and the only obvious indication was that her water broke.) Sabrina is in serious danger in his care.
I also don't get why Lela Swift wasn't reminding Roger Davis that his character was pawing his own sister.
But as someone who has worked in and around ERs during full moons, I applaud Stokes' theory about possessed children becoming restless on those nights.
Anyway... Why all the risky rushes to the mausoleum when there's a perfectly good cell in the Old House basement? Tell the family you got a dog. Or something. [santa_undecided]
And as the family searches for David, why hasn't anyone caught on to the extra window on the exterior of the West Wing? Though that's probably a stupid question, since linen closets are able to expand and contract and no one will notice that either. Geez.
We learn here that Edward and Quentin were brothers, and that's good, but what was up with Barnabas learning that Jamison was Quentin's younger brother a few eps ago?
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I'll grant you that Chris probably should have removed himself as far away as possible that night Sabrina came to his place. Negligence, maybe. Or maybe he just panicked. When one is frightened or panicky enough, they don't always do the rational thing.
I also watch Law and Order and I SO can see Jack McCoy charging Chris with criminal negligence. Whether he would have actually gotten a conviction is another matter. With the right attorney and/or a sympathetic jury, maybe Chris could have gotten off.
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I also watch Law and Order
Yay!! [santa_thumb]
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While being snowbound, I watched a surfing movie in which Roger Davis appeared and he was pawing the female next to him and ordering her around so maybe it came naturally to him or maybe he based Ned on this highlight in his career.
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But as someone who has worked in and around ERs during full moons, I applaud Stokes' theory about possessed children becoming restless on those nights.
So the full moon really can affect behavior? I've heard that sort of thing, but never (until now) from a source I felt inclined to trust.
And as the family searches for David, why hasn't anyone caught on to the extra window on the exterior of the West Wing?
Is there anybody there with a clear knowledge of what rooms are where and how the house should look on the outside to correspond with the rooms inside? Maybe Liz would know, although her knowledge of family history seems to be more about people than about the house. Anyway, at Independence Hall in Philadelphia the number of windows on the outside does not correspond to the number of windows on the inside, because in Georgian architecture everything had to be symmetrical on the outside, so there's a false window showing on the outside in a place where it wasn't possible to have a window on the inside. Or anyway, that's the story as I remember it. Maybe there's a ghost at Independence Hall waiting to be let out.
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Anyway... Why all the risky rushes to the mausoleum when there's a perfectly good cell in the Old House basement?
That's an excellent idea, Midnite. Unfortunately, I don't think the Old House basement cell would have held the Werewolf. I think he could have easily broken the door and escaped. [snow_undecided]
I like how Roger was so concerned about David and had the police search the house. It was great when Roger was telling Quentin that he would not have David. But then Quentin told him, "David is mine." As willful and assertive as he was, Roger was no match for Quentin. [snow_sad]
I don't like Ned much. It's rather annoying to watch him pawing at Sabrina all the time. I agree with Midnite that Ned should have placed her in a psychiatric care facility. He clearly didn't have any psychiatric know-how and hadn't been treating her properly. [snow_rolleyes]
It really wasn't his fault what happened to her....he did try and get her to leave his place when he was about to change. He didn't know she would come back after he had changed.
I think Chris was, at the very least, negligent. Even if he never intended to harm Sabrina (or anyone else) and tried to stop the tragedy once it was in motion, did he do reasonably enough to prevent it in the first place? I don't think so.
I agree with IluvBarnabas. I think Chris did the best he could. After all, he chained himself to the wall heater in an attempt to hold him there. Chris didn't know that the chain would break and Sabrina would come back. Although... I just had a thought that he shouldn't have given Sabrina a key to his apartment. If Sabrina didn't have a key, then she wouldn't have been able to surprise him. So I guess I agree, at least partly, with you, too, Midnite. [snow_wink]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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Chris didn't know that the chain would break and Sabrina would come back.
Did the chain break? It seems to me that if it had, then Sabrina would not have lived to tell - or not tell - the tale. I've been figuring that the chain held but that the sight of the werewolf was what put Sabrina in shock.
Anyway, I'm betting that before the chain broke, whatever connected the heater to the wall would break first.
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Unfortunately, I don't think the Old House basement cell would have held the Werewolf. I think he could have easily broken the door and escaped. [snow_undecided]
It held Adam for quite some time. There's an ankle chain somewhere down there too.
On Buffy, Oz was contained in a jail-type cell during the full moon. It's just a big cage.
I just had a thought that he shouldn't have given Sabrina a key to his apartment. If Sabrina didn't have a key, then she wouldn't have been able to surprise him. So I guess I agree, at least partly, with you, too, Midnite. [snow_wink]
Whoops, once you see the ep that follows this one (which explains how Sabrina got the key), I'm going to lose your vote. [snow_sad]
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On Buffy, Oz was contained in a jail-type cell during the full moon. It's just a big cage.
I remember that. Yes, Midnite, that big cage did successfully contain Oz. But the Old House basement cell on DS strikes me as weak compared to the cell on Buffy. Although Adam was very strong, I think the Werewolf was stronger. I think the werewolf would have been able to quickly break the ankle chain that was used on Adam. [snow_rolleyes]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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If the werewolf fell off of Widows Hill, would he survive? And if you threw both Adam and the werewolf off of Widows Hill, which of them would reach the bottom first? And while we're throwing Adam and the werewolf off of Widows Hill can we throw Ned Stuart as well?
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EmeraldRose, I meant this cell in the Old House--
(http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13418.0;attach=8715)
Metal bars, iron door, brick walls. DS Werewolves have very strong paws and claws, which is is how, IMO, one broke a leather ankle cuff before heading to the Blue Whale for a bite, but I doubt it would have the same success with a metal door or the iron cuff that Adam wore.
Remember how Chris chose a room at the Collinsport Inn that had metal bars on the window?
Again on Buffy, the werewolf in the jail cell was also guarded (by someone armed with a tranquilizer gun), which isn't a bad idea for Barnabas & Julia to consider, but on that show it amounted to only 3 nights per full moon.
Since 2009 is being called "the Year of the Werewolf," I imagine we'll be seeing all sorts of new interpretations.
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Another great episode, and nice attention to the little touches. One minute detail which I notice they got spot on was the "David is MINE" note. When I was growing up, a cousin of my grandmother's despaired of my handwriting and made me a copybook of the cursive letters -- but his were Victorian copperplate, as was the note we saw on screen. (FYI he never DID manage to cure me of my NYC public school chickenscratch [snow_scream])
As to Ned -- I tend to use the FF a lot when he's around [6042] [diablo]. But the reason for that is in line with what everyone's said so far. He's a self centered jackass. Personally, I wonder whether all the carrying on is actually concern for Sabrina, or that his pride is offended because she's HIS SISTER, and she's not pretty anymore. He seems to take the whole thing as a personal affront. AND DITTO on what everyone's said about him not being the right person, and definitely NOT having the proper training to not do MORE damage.
uh, and to address the hair issues -- sure, he might have had trouble with the upkeep himself, but what's wrong with taking her to the beauty parlor? Most women DID have their hair done in those days, and I don't know if home coloring was an idiot proof process yet in the 60s anyway. (Anyone else get the mental image of Ned messsing up and turning Sabrina's hair GREEN a la Anne of Green Gables.?)
Jeannie