DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 II => Topic started by: picard on December 06, 2003, 11:00:58 PM
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I just started this topic to see if you all have any new info that i may not have other than what has been previously reported on the forum about the executive producers, the script writer and so and so. also, please list any sources of info about it, thanks.
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Nothing new to report yet, picard. But if/when there is, the details surrounding the new deal will certainly be posted on this board, or, in the event that nothing comes of this latest attempt, at least a link will be provided on the CE/A board to the SG Update. :)
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Hopefully it will die in development.
But, if it makes the goons at a certain film studio see the light about a restored DVD release of hoDS and NoDS, I'll manage to put up with a few weeks of teen Barn and teen Maggie. Given the WB's track record, they'll never give the series enough time to build an audience. Just have a look at what they did with the Tarzan series if you doubt my words.
It was a fiasco on every level--casting, scripting, production--and I believe they barely waited 2 months before pulling the plug.
G.
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Steve, I understand your feelings about badly conceived ideas that should never see the light of day.....but you can't have it both ways....
If Tarzan was as horrible as you say (I'll take your word for it ;) ) then why SHOULDN'T they have taken it off as quickly as possible? If it had been something that an audience could grow to love, then it deserved a longer chance....but if it was crap from day one....?
I'm for giving a new DS a shot. It might be the most awful thing ever produced....or it might be the witty, crafty, sly, creepy, lush, diabolical, guilty pleasure we all wish for. Either way, we'll still always have the original, so it costs us nothing.
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I dont understand this whole Anti-WB thing. Their are many shows that critics have like and WB has kept and they did find audience later. Look At Angel for main example.
As for trying to aim at teenagers, I think thats the point. Since most of the oringinal Dark Shadows fans were running home from a school bus to watch it. Why get upset if trying to get a new generation interested.
Something to think about!
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I don't understand the anti-WB camp either... John Wells' previous work (E.R. and The West Wing) is hardly teen orientated fluff -- far from it. Both are credible popular dramas with strong production values, and there's been nothing said to suggest that his take on DS would be any different.
By all means, if it makes it to the air and you hate it, then slate it to your heart's content, but entirely dismissing something that hasn't even been made yet seems pretty illogical.
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This anti-WB/New DS is just a repeat of the same sort of behavior that swept through portions of fandom back in 1990 once the NBC series was announced. And it only got worse after some of the casting news and early publicity photos began to be published. Much of it completely defied rational understanding because, as has also been stated this time around, no one had even seen so much as a frame from a scene of the show, much less an actual episode. Some people were just determined to not give the NBC series a chance, if not actually hate it sight unseen from the get go.
If I have an opportunity later on, I'll try to dig up some copies of Inside the Old House and The World of Dark Shadows from back then so I can share several of the letters some fans wrote in...
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I agree here. I'm not sure why we are lashing out at WB for a show that hasn't even aired or is for sure going to air. A pilot is a far cry from a full blown series as well. So, let them make the pilot. What have we got to loose?
We could end up with a fantastic show that keeps us on the edge of our seats each week. I know Buffy and Angel have done that for me. It will also give us something new to chat about either in a positive or negative way just like we do now. Plus, we can use some new blood at the fests if you know what I mean..... [diablo]
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In an effort to present a balanced view of what fans were saying back in 1990 about the '91 series, I've decided to present both sides rather than simply some of the complaints that first surfaced.
First up, some random quotes that might have some of us scratching our heads once we realize that all of them were indeed made without having seen so much as a 10 second clip from the pilot (those are my remarks between the brackets [ ]):
- "the look of the DS sets was specific and unique, from Collinwood's foyer and Josette's room, to the Collins mausoleum ... I could never relate to any sets other than the ones I already recognize for Collinwood, the Old House or Collinsport scenes like the Blue Whale Bar."
- "Now I'll have a whole new set of rooms to memorize, and frankly, it will be more of a nuisance than a pleasure. I can only hope the set-designers will make the sets resemble the originals as much as possible." [Gee, how wildly disappointed these two fans must have been. And how foolish of Fred Harpman, Janet Stokes & Jeannie Gunn to have created/decorated such a magnificent set as the new Great Hall. What were they thinking?! :o Don't get me wrong I love the original sets, but come on!]
- "above everything else, DON'T, for God's sake, pattern a new DS in the style and tone of DALLAS! Never! It's too slick and too corrupt, and the Collins family should never be like the Ewings," [Granted, he may have his moments, but why would DC have wanted to do anything even remotely resembling that?!]
- "We all have high hopes for it (but) I'm afraid that the hopes might be too unrealistic by the time it gets to the screen."
- "it will not be exactly the way we want it to be (I, like so many others who wrote continuation stories might be out of joint because all the wonderful new characters that we created were not included," [As if the writers would have ever considered basing anything on fanfic?!]
- "I would be very distressed if they made a new Dark Shadows without -- at the very least -- they didn't hire Jonathan Frid as a consultant. Ben Cross is a good actor, but he's no Barnabas." [DC hiring Frid as a consultant? Or Frid even wanting to have been one? Yeah, right!]
- "I've never seen much point in remakes. If the original is good, why do it again?"
- "Will this Barnabas have a caped coat? I doubt it. Another trademark down the tubes"
- "I have seen a photo of the new Joe Haskel, Michael Weiss [see attachment below] this new, unshaven version, who looks like a motorcycle-biker to me. ... Will Carolyn be into the New Age scene, or (shudder) punk rock? Will David take drugs? Joe?" [Gee, what a shame it didn't turn out that Joe and his "motorcycle-biker" buds didn't actually deal drugs, huh? :- ]
- "As time goes by many of us will begin tuning it out."
- "A new Dark Shadows! Why is it that I'm not very excited? ... I'm not happy."
- "I don't like the English accent Mr. Cross has either. I think it's too thick for Barnabas."
- "I've seen Mr. Cross in a vampire movie, and I wasn't pleased... he didn't look all that great with fangs." [Huh? Who knew fangs were supposed to be a flattering look?]
- it is the later Barnabas that I fear he will not be able to portray. ... I think Mr. Cross will have trouble with that part of the role. They are going to have to mellow Barnabas after a time, if the show lasts that long before cancellation that is, there is where the problem with Mr. Cross lies." [Who knew this person, who earlier in their letter had said that the only thing they'd ever seen him in was the vampire spoof "Nightlife" (which I thought was pretty funny and appreciate even more after having seen Cross in the '91 DS) could come away from that one performance fully aware of Cross' full acting range? Apparently checking out something like, oh, say, Chariots of Fire was just, well, too beyond them. It was simply one movie and they knew it all. ::)]
- and "will we see Roger all tied up in a junk bond scandal or Carolyn as the town slut with several illegitimate children running around Collinwood? Will David be a punker with a mohawk or will Collinsport give a new meaning to the phrase "Hello Sailor" as the Blue Whale has become a gay bar?"
- "it's got the potential to be a huge flop"
And believe it or not, these quotes are actually some of the milder complaints that were made (though I'm pretty sure that those next to last comments were supposed to be jokes - at least I hope so :- ).
Thankfully, though, these and other more harsh comments didn't go unchallenged after other fans had gotten the opportunity to read them. And some of those letters will appear in a followup as soon as I get the chance to gather them and post it. My hope is that they might help channel/spark current discussion/speculation regarding a WB DS into a more postive direction.....
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- "I've seen Mr. Cross in a vampire movie, and I wasn't pleased... he didn't look all that great with fangs." [Huh? Who knew fangs were supposed to be a flattering look?]
Maybe this person preferred the Nosferatu gopher fang look.
When I watched the 91 series, I had no idea that there was such a negative reaction to it. I was upset that the show was not given a chance to hit its stride. Thanks for posting the comments.
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MB these quotes are too funny. Thanks for posting them. They made my day!
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And here are some responses to the negative quotes I posted yesterday. I present them without comment as they pretty much speak for themselves (and do keep in mind that all these remarks were also being made before the '91 series actually debuted):
- "Didn't send my comments on the new movie/series earlier because to speculate with insufficient data (as I had at the time) is the royal road to egg on one's face."
- "... loved reading the movie comments. If nothing else, it sure did get fandom stirred up. Myself, I'm just thrilled it's back - and hope it's good. Ben Cross is a very good actor, like Frid, he'll just have to make the role his own. Let's hope it clicks. Between the release of DS on video (who would have thought it possible!?), the new DS Companion book, the new TV movie, and the release of the two DS movies on video cassette -- whew! I'm on a Dark Shadows High. It's unbelievable, but damn I'm happy!"
- "While I can appreciate the fans' disappointment, we must realize Dan Curtis is not recreating DS for us, but for the public at large, and their reaction to it will trigger everything that follows."
- "As far as plot is concerned, for the sake of the new viewers, it's more practical to begin with Barnabas' introduction to the Collins family. There would be no confusion for 1st time viewers"
- "I am one who usually doesn't respond to various fandom activities, opinions, or reactions, preferring instead a calmer more peaceful existence. But after reading all the negative reactions to the new DS project, I felt a real need to speak out. I was troubled by and couldn't believe the almost totally negative attitude which came from many of the letters. Why is nearly every response seemingly so closed minded? This mindset toward the actors, project, etc., without even seeing the finished product."
- "It isn't as if the old episodes of DS are being obliterated - never to be seen again. This new DS project is in point of fact helping the old. We have the release of episodes on video, a cable channel has purchased and will eventually air all DS episodes. The show for a time is sure to be very popular once again. I mean, what more do people want or expect? For years people have wanted to see DS reborn on TV in some form. Now here it is, coming to TV (and we can even tape it this time around) and a lot of fans can do nothing but whine and complain, because its not exactly the way they want it or think it should be. Nothing remains the same. We should be overjoyed -- DS is being produced again at all. As well as doing all we can to support it, because if it dies due to our revolt so may hopes for future interest in the unreleased DS episodes."
- "Over the years I've noticed a small faction of DS fans who seem obsessed with the show. Should it not behoove such persons to remember, it is after all, only a television program -- and not the Holy Bible. Such people judging the actors, writers, Curtis and the entire DS project before even seeing it, left me cold. I'm sure Dan Curtis, Sam Hall, et.al., with all their combined years of experience know what they are doing. Curtis has said he wants to try getting some of the former cast to return. So what if its a different role, they are actors, for God's sake, not the people they portray -- either now or before (during the 1966-71 run). People who can't accept this perhaps need a good dose of reality or professional mental treatment! Or at least remember the old adage: 'You can't go home again!' But we can visit."
- "Why not relax, chill out and enjoy this latest installment of DS for what it is, a new version of an old, dear friend. Perhaps if fandom stops comparing it to an old separate program twenty odd years old they might even find pleasure in watching the story unfold again. Strangely familiar but interestingly different."
- "If some people in fandom can't collectively support DS old and new, then at least calm down, 'grow up' and allow the rest of us who want to, to enjoy this new version of an old favorite. It is not my intention to offend anyone, but after reading all the negative reactions, I felt it had to be said. Surely I'm not a lone voice in the woods..."
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IS IT NOT to late to do a new ds for next fall or mid season.would,nt wb already have orderd the plot.afthe all they decide in may what plots will become shows.even if they orderd the plot now they would have to cast it and then film it which would take a long time.
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The new WB network's version of dark shadows has been committed to a pilot and if accepted it will most likely be put on the WB's primetime 2004-2005 fall lineup.
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Pilot season, when the networks actually film their pilots for the next season, runs from about late-January to mid-April.
They don't announce their schedules for the coming season until May.
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I was quite excited to watch the NBC DS, as I recall it. Somewhere I may even still have the tapes I made of it. But it really didn't work for me. I liked certain angles that they explored and I liked some of the changes they made, but it was in the end, fairly stale for me.
It's not so much the WB that I'm wary of, it's DC. What worked in the 60s is not going to work now. I think the series will have a fighting chance if they do not choose to retell the girl on the train and the Josette/Barnabas tale yet again. It's not that neither weren't enormously important to the series, it's just that he's reheating left-overs for the umpteenth time and it really doesn't work for me.
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It's not so much the WB that I'm wary of, it's DC. What worked in the 60s is not going to work now. I think the series will have a fighting chance if they do not choose to retell the girl on the train and the Josette/Barnabas tale yet again. It's not that neither weren't enormously important to the series, it's just that he's reheating left-overs for the umpteenth time and it really doesn't work for me.
You said it.
--Mark
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Well i am sorry that does not work for you, but if barnabas in some form or another is not on there i and a lot of other ds fans will not watch the series because if there is no barnabas or any other of the familiar characters from the original series we will have no basis on which to go on or which to judge this new series pilot. Because if this new pilot is not exactly like the original series with the possible acception of different actors playing the familiar characters and maybe different sets for the familiar settings and locations and better special effects, but not overkill so that it takes awaya emphasis on the character, content and atmosphere of the show, i will not watch it past the first episode.
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There's a marked difference between using characters from the original show and doing a carbon copy repeat. Obviously Barnabas is integral to DS, and as it stands, the vampire angle is probably the best chance they have for success.
But having some beautiful girl fresh from the orphanage traveling to the old dark house (which was a dated concept way back in the 1800s) to find the truth about her identity and to be menaced by the Byronic anti-hero? Well, it can work, I suppose, but it requires strong scripts with an emphasis on character, which has never been Curtis' strongest suit. They had some potential in 1991 with Joanna Going, but it's still one tired plot device.
I think we need too to look at 21st century audiences. The innocent young girl with the long flowing tresses doesn't have quite the same audience identification in a modern story these days.
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It's not so much the WB that I'm wary of, it's DC. What worked in the 60s is not going to work now. I think the series will have a fighting chance if they do not choose to retell the girl on the train and the Josette/Barnabas tale yet again. It's not that neither weren't enormously important to the series, it's just that he's reheating left-overs for the umpteenth time and it really doesn't work for me.
You said it.
I sort of agree. But at the same time, as a few people have said in the past few years and as one of the comments I'd quoted from back in 1990 said "we must realize Dan Curtis is not recreating DS for us, but for the public at large, and their reaction to it will trigger everything that follows."
If this series does get a go, I don't relish sitting through the umpteenth variation of the introduction of Barnabas, the arrival of Vicki, or the whole Barnabas/Josette/Angelique backstory. But I do beleive that story needs to be told for anyone unfamiliar with it to understand what comes afterward. So, I'd be willing to sit through it all all over again so long as something newer comes along afterward.
The NBC series was planning to take the story in a different direction from what the daytime series did after Vicki's return from the past. Unfortunately, though, Warren Littlefield decided to pull the plug rather than allow them the opportunity. (Though if it's any consolation, that is a decision he came to regret. But it was a case of too little too late...)
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Because if this new pilot is not exactly like the original series with the possible acception of different actors playing the familiar characters and maybe different sets for the familiar settings and locations and better special effects, but not overkill so that it takes awaya emphasis on the character, content and atmosphere of the show, i will not watch it past the first episode.
If the show is exactly the same the as the original, why would anyone want to watch a new one? Between the Sci Fi channel's run of the show and MPI's video releases, there have been more than ample opportunities for viewers, both new and old, to see the original series for quite a few years now. That's not to say that the original characters aren't important; there's an awful lot that can be done with them beyond the same old well-trodden ground. Rehashing a moribund story yet again isn't the answer.
--Mark
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The new WB network's version of dark shadows has been committed to a pilot and if accepted it will most likely be put on the WB's primetime 2004-2005 fall lineup.
I just received a copy of Shadowgram and I am a bit confused about the entire proposed new DS pilot. First I wonder to myself who might have leaked the proposal to Variety and for what purpose and who had the best to gain by its release. Secondly the Variety report now appears to be inaccurate. Let me see if I have this correct. The WB as of this writing has not ordered a "put pilot" whatever put means in this context. Additionally, there is no script at this time. The WB will consider this script for a new DS pilot. It is a bit confusing to me what you mean that the WB is committed to a pilot. I mean is it your interpretation that the WB has not ordered a script to be written nor is financially paying for this script? I am just wondering what all this means and put it into perspective. Are we at the same stage with Fox ordering a pilot last year that went nowhere or are we at a more favorable position to see a new DS series? I find it in our favor that John Wells has a multi-million dollar deal with the WB to develop tv shows. It would be in his interest I guess to see this DS pilot become reality. Hope you can help me sort this thing through. Thanks
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I'm a new fan to the original DS series and I want more new stories for the WB series. I think it will be a mistake for the WB series to be a complete retelling of the original DS series. I think the new series will be a complete waste if it's just the same old stories told again.
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Jimbo, to clarify where things stand:
WB has ordered (and paid for) a pilot SCRIPT for a PROPOSED series. The script has not been finished yet. IF the WB approves the script, they'll go about casting and shooting the PILOT EPISODE ONLY.
IF that PILOT is approved by the WB< then they'll greenlight a TV series- then and only then will there be a new series.
We're exactly where we were with the Fox pilot only the script was written before it was leaked out.
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The subject of the myth of Orpheus has been re-told continously since ancient Greek times. It became a popular subject of many operas throughout the ages since 1600, plays, ballets, etc. Thus, a third version of Dark Shadows is mere child's play in the big history of things.
Some stories, like Orpheus, can be re-told again and again and again. Dark Shadows is no exception. The myth of Dark Shadows is deeper then the story of a vampire. It can be read on many different levels. How do we struggle with our demon selfs. What drives us to hate, to kill and redemption. Who is truly evil and who isn't.
Mythology speaks to us in many deep ways and tells us the story of our higher selfs. It becomes necessary for each generation to be told the same story again. All the children that live in the darkness have not seen it. Re-telling it for them will be new. There are many new twists and turns it can take.
It's a truly timeless story or we wouldn't still be so interested in it.
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Even if a script is written and a pilot is film. We wont know anything untilspring time (April/May), thats the time when the networks announced their fall schedules.
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Jimbo, to clarify where things stand:
WB has ordered (and paid for) a pilot SCRIPT for a PROPOSED series. The script has not been finished yet. IF the WB approves the script, they'll go about casting and shooting the PILOT EPISODE ONLY.
IF that PILOT is approved by the WB< then they'll greenlight a TV series- then and only then will there be a new series.
We're exactly where we were with the Fox pilot only the script was written before it was leaked out.
Thanks Darren! That answers all of my questions. Hopefully the WB has been greatly impressed with the buzz in the media and will be supportive of the DS proposed series.
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BUT thats my question if the scrift is not finish yet how can they finish all this in time for may when they decide on the shows for fall and mid season.the fact that the wb has not orderd the plot to be made yet,i don,t think is a good sign.they already orderd the lost in space remake and there in the stage of casting it.
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Wouldn't we rather see it done well, than quickly?
After all, we've already waited 30-odd years....we're obviously very patient people.....we can wait a bit longer.
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timer7,
As Darren pointed out, the script for the proposed WB DS is currently being written. And when one considers that the 2 hour pilot for the '91 NBC series didn't begin shooting until March 19, 1990 (and wrapped on April 11th), there's still plenty of time to finish the script and cast it if/when the WB gives the go-ahead. :)
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As Darren pointed out, the script for the proposed WB DS is currently being written. And when one considers that the 2 hour pilot for the '91 NBC series didn't begin shooting until March 19, 1990 (and wrapped on April 11th), there's still plenty of time to finish the script and cast it if/when the WB gives the go-ahead. :)
Just out of extreme curiosity, does anyone know specifically why Fox was unhappy with last years DS pilot?
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Great question, jimbo. I hope someone here knows the answer.
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all right ypu guys, so we won't take the whole intro of barnabas thing and redo it, what will potential new viewers think. They won't know any basis or ground for the characters, old or new, if this new WB pilot airs next fall. I am speaking of people who do not nothing about the original series. I think i would be confused if all of a sudden i were a new viewer and all of a sudden a vampire named barnabas collins showed up on screen and did what he did in the original series and what ever they decide to have him do in this new pilot. They should at least do the inro of barnabas story to introduce him to the new viewers. They must not sacrifice the character and dramatic and romantic side of barnabas that made him so likeable in the original series, both as a vampire and a human. He used that to charm people and not to lure his victims. So what ever they call for him to do in this new pilot he must have the same qualities that the original barnabas had. Knowing that no one could come close to johnathan frid's portrayal of barnabas in the original series. I am also concerned of the casting for this new pilot for the WB. The WB is infamous for casting all teenage casts for it's shows. Dark shadows is not about some teenage garbage nor should it be made to be like teenage garbage. Nor do i think that the 21st century setting should influence the way it is made and played out. That would sacrifice character and atmosphere and the effect. Maybe a more plausible take could be on what happend to barnabas and the collins family after barnabas, julia and professor stokes returned from 1840. we never got a proper series finale instead we got stuck with 1841 parallel time garbage. This new version of dark shadows must not have an all teenage cast. Johnathan frid had at least a few crow's feet on his head when he was cast as barnabas. I think the minimum casting age for him would be from 32 on up. Roger from 38 on up. Elizabeth from 42 up. david from 9 to 10. Carolyn 18 exactly. Victoria from 18 o 28. Mrs.Johnson can be anything from 40 on up. Willie in the mid 20's. I don't know but there had better not be an all teenage cast. There must be some familiar ground for us original dark shadows fans to go on. I will watch this new pilot when and if it airs next fall like a hawk and if it steps out of my line of personal expectations i will not watch it beyond the first episode and will only look at the listings at the tv guide if something good comes along.
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Of course you can manage without an introduction to Barnabas -- it's so easy to do... He's a guy no one knows too much about, brooding and distant with shadows in his past and a secret that threatens his future. That's all a new viewer needs -- if anything, it makes the whole vampire thing a much bigger surprise than the hand-out-of-a-coffin stuff ever could.
With a new version nothing is sacred. Nothing's nailed down and nothing needs to be obeyed -- all that's needed is imagination and an open mind to the possibilities.
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I think those among us who feel as you do, picard, that the only acceptable new version of DS would be one as closely identical as possible, are in for much disappointment.
Consider it this way.....the original Dark Shadows already exists. It was created and produced and it exists in a permanent state. Thanks to the marvels of modern technology, it will shortly be available in its entirety for anyone who cares to spend the money to own it. You can then watch it, in its perfect original state, any time you wish, exactly as it was.
That being the case.....why on earth would anyone attempt to RE-CREATE what already exists?
To begin with, it's impossible.....all the original performers, writers, crew and what-all are either dead or too elderly to perform their original roles. Time doesn't stand still for anyone....nor does it run backward.
That being so, why should a new production not take a new direction? It could be a re-telling of the original story in a new form.....or it could be a "next generation" approach.....or it could be an infinite number of "other" things, limited only by what the new production staff choses.
They might choose to be reverent towards the original, please all the old fans, and create no new fans at all. Or they might chose to ignore the old fans, and find a new audience with a very different version of the story. Either choice limits their chance at a successful run. So it's reasonable to assume they will choose to find a middle ground that will somewhat satisfy older fans, and hopefully intrigue new ones.
No matter what....the original still exists. It won't be in any way diminished or changed, no matter what comes next. And if that 's the only version you ever want to see....why then, you have no need ever to watch a new one at all.
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and then there are those of us who wished they'd just leave well enough alone. . .the original was what we love and that type of affection wont be recreated.
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I agree it would be very hard to make old fans love a new version as much as we love the old one.....but why assume that a new version couldn't generate the same enthusiasm and affection in a new audience? And why shouldn't younger fans be given that same chance?
Kids who've grown up on increasingly breathtaking special effects can't be faulted for finding the original visually dull in comparison. That doesn't mean they wouldn't find the story equally compelling if it looked more like the world they've grown up with.
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Kids who think that special effects are the key to good story telling and tv and movies are very dumb and thick skulled. I don't remember when exactly when i discovered dark shadows, probably a few years ago and i have already been raised on over the top special effects and when i happend to stumble on dark shadows one day when i was sick home from school(this was during the firsts season) on the sci fi channel i was pulled in by the suspense and content of the storys and the characters and as i watched more of it and into the barnabas and further supernatural strorylines i learned how important character and atmospehere and content where to dark shadows and to good storytelling. I also know this as i think it is also doing bad to the star trek franchise, of which i am an avid fan of. a new version of dark shadows viewed by newbies to dark shadows without watching the original dark shadows won't get what dark shadows truly is. How good the original was and still is. The original dark shadows series won over it's fans with basically the minimal amount of special effects, and basicly relied on it's conten, character and atmosphere to carry it to success. If dark shadows is changed to the stuff that kids have grown up with now, the character, content and atmosphere of the storylines and of what dark shadows is will be sacrificed and overlooked and severly hurt
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Kids who think that special effects are the key to good story telling and tv and movies are very dumb and thick skulled.
I find that a very misleading statement - Raineypark's post remarked on a younger generation struggling with a "visually dull" original - storytelling never came into it.
Sure, DS was cherishably great at times. However, there was also a lot of dross, substandard production and outright stupid excesses along the way. It's important to retain that perspective. A new version can't survive on fans alone -- as I think I pointed out elsewhere, the entire fan audience could switch off after the first episode and it would be a blip on the ratings, if anything.
None of the arguments about new producers not "getting what Dark Shadows truly is" convince me. Firstly, I haven't a clue what that statement actually means -- and I think if pressed, the original poster would struggle to define that term in any tangible way. And secondly, it boils down to the same irrational argument of blindly slating something that hasn't even been written, let alone cast or filmed.
I see no reason why a new version can't unite the strengths of the original with the benefits of hindsight and a more sophisticated production. Ethos is a lot more important to the show than mythos, I think. Beyond that, it's just a case of telling good stories... that's all that counts.
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That may be all well and true, but telling good stories is not just what it is about. It has tol tell stories that are uniquely dark shadows and indistiwuishably darks shadows. It has to have the appeal to young,new viewers that the original had, but still tell the same calibur and quality of stories as the original that pulled us in and never let go. It has to have some of the familiar characters to provide a base for us original series fans as well as some of the same settings. But it must not have an all teenage cast. The only teenager i want to see on the new pilot is an 18 year old carolyn and a 20+ vicki. so i have decided to relax my requirements for the original series...
1.Same opening sequence and music.
2.Some of the same characters and settings to provide a base for us original series fans.
3.If it has to, new storylines.
4.Do not overdo it on the special effects, make sure the emphasis is on the character, content and atmosphere and the storyline.
5.no all teenage cast.
6.no comedy, unless a boom microphone or camera gets into a shot or the actors flub the lines or sets falling down.
7.be serious with what they are trying to accomplish. it cannot take a light hearted, comedy fillled take on it. Dark Shadows has always been serious at what it does. It cannnot be like al the other so called supernatural shows like flufffy buffy, angel or any other of that garbage. And i am not saying that the original was picture perfect production, but it focused more on character and content and atmosphere and relied less on special effects. On that and the acting in the original series, no revival, remake or new series will be as good as the original. That is a view we also have to keep in mind.
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That may be all well and true, but telling good stories is not just what it is about. It has tol tell stories that are uniquely dark shadows and indistiwuishably darks shadows.
As I said before, I'd love to know what that actually means... and, following on from that, why that's such a tall order?
i have decided to relax my requirements for the original series...
John Wells breathes a sigh of relief...
6.no comedy, unless a boom microphone or camera gets into a shot or the actors flub the lines or sets falling down.
Riggggghhht... So, substandard production is perfectly okay, but daring to introduce a human dimension like wit isn't? Makes perfect sense. I dunno -- were I a more cynical person, I'd assume you're being very witty...
::)
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Can we please have this discussion without trying to annoy each other?
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I doubt we need to worry about production values. If there's one thing they accomplished well with 1991, it was those. And these days, that would be expected. This ain't gonna be MST3K with a guy underneath a VW van making it move with a 2 x 4.
I could even deal with a younger cast although how they're going to have an adolescent Vicki tutoring David Collins in this day and age I do not know. Even the private schools usually want someone with a B.A. But hey! Wait, she's a child prodigy--the Doogie Hauser of the governess set ;D, yeah, that could work.
Giving this more thought than it probably deserves. This is what I want:
All I want is a decent script. They want to have Victoria Winters arrive on the Greyhound bus or whatever to home school David Collins. Fine. They want to redo the same story. Fine. I want good dialogue. I want character development. I want subtlety. I want decent plotting.
There's a snowball in hell with my name on it.
8)
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Excuse me, but what is an indistinguishably Dark Shadows story? The writers were notorious for ripping storylines from horror, science fiction, and gothic novels/movies. Dark Shadows stories are variations on stories that have been told for ages. Sometimes those stories were well adapted (the 1968-9 The Turn of the Screw storyline for instance) or badly adapted (perhaps the Adam/Eve rip that had once been called Frankenstein). It may be important for the show to stay within its genre, but its more important for the stories to be well told.
I don't understand why so many are harping on the "all teenaged cast" issue. I can't think of WB show that has an all teenaged cast that is still being shown today. I know someone else has brought this point up before (please forgive me for not remembering your name), but WB shows such as Everwood and Seventh Heaven do give time to develop their adult characters. Angel is cast with actors way into (or out of) their twenties. These shows appeal to people of all ages. For example, my parents, both of whom grew up on the original Dark Shadows, are addicted to Buffy and Angel and are religiously collecting the DVD sets. Why? Because they find something within those shows with which they can relate to, regardless of the fact that they may be older than the cast. That, at least in my opinion, is what a good show does.
How much like the original Dark Shadows should the revival be? I don't really know. I think we all have things we love about the original but we must realize that this new show cannot recreate those settings. Can a new show be as good as the original? Maybe not for an original fan, but, for a new fan who has little familiarity with the original, this new show may obviously eclipse it in the mind of a new viewer. Of course, any positive interest that this new show brings to the original show can only be good (like sparking greater interest in the movies for instance). If this revival makes it past the planning stages, I think all we can hope for is that they professionally tell a good story that sparks enthusiastic discussion as the original has done so well.
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Let's simplify things for the moment...It's always been my contention that Dark Shadows is NOT a high concept show. I always felt that it doesn't have a simple basic one sentence description that encapsulates it...This is what makes it a hard sell and difficult to sequelize and re-do...
In other words, something like star trek or Doctor Who has a very simple premise; 1- In the future a spaceship crew explore new worlds and encounter various forms of new life, 2: An eccentric alien scientist and his companions travel into various times and different planets and end up trying to help the forces of good prevail in some kind of struggle.
My challenge is simply this- Post a one sentence 'high-concept' description of what DS is. That's it. Then we'll see what we get...
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I'm not a fan of all those teenage shows but aren't the actors who portray them in their 20's? For instance, "That '70's Show" has a bunch of 20 somethings portraying teenagers. I believe "Dawson's Creek" was the same. My point is this, when we think about it the original "Dark Shadows" had a several actresses barely out of their teens when they began appearing on the show. To name a few: Kate Jackson, KLS, Alexandra Moltke, Nancy Barrett, Donna Wandry, Lara Parker. These women were younger when they began appearing on "Dark Shadows" than some of those actresses who appeared on "Dawson's Creek" and the like. I don't understand all the fuss if this show has actors and actresses in their 20's just like the original did. Several of the men were in their 20's when they appeared on DS: David Selby, Roger Davis, Christopher Pennock, Don Briscoe.
As for the age of Barnabas, I disagree that he has to be at least 32. All of his love interests on the the original show were all the women mentioned above who were in their 20's while the character of Barnabas was likely supposed to be in his mid 20's, clearly Jonathan Frid was in his 40's when he played Barnabas. The obvious age difference between Barnabas and his love interests was a little hard to watch sometimes and I'm currently a man in my 40's. In the current episodes airing when Bramwell, played by JF is supposed to be the same age as Catherine, played by LP is too ludicrous for words. They have great chemistry but Jonathan is almost 18 years older than Lara and believe me it shows.
I believe if they have the character of Barnabas in the new show and he's going to be attracted to women in their 20's than he should be a man of say no older than 30-35. I get bored watching a man in his 40's continuously falling for 20 somethings. I'm sorry but Ive learned a lot since my 20's and I want to be with a woman who is age appropriate to me not some 20 year old. If I was 20 than a 20 year old would be great but I'm not and I think men look ridiculous when they're with women young enough to be their daughters. Most of the women Barnabas was attracted to were young enough to be Jonathan Frid's daughter.
That said, I have no problem with Barnabas and Angelique as a viable couple. It worked for me 30+ years ago and it works for me now. I'm not sure why the age difference never bothers me, it's probably the chemistry between JF and LP and the timelessness of their characters.
Please don't get me wrong Jonathan Frid is and always will be my favorite from the original but in a lot of ways
he was not age appropriate for his character.
...............Just my opinion
Murph
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My point exactly, Darren. Since one can't conclusively say what a uniquely "Dark Shadows" story is, I don't think you can discount any new version outright. You can't reasonably bemoan that a new version won't match a set of criteria that you can't articulate yourself. To me, that's like saying: "Well, I'll love that radio show, so long as it's yellow."
There probably isn't a single story from the original show which isn't cribbed from somewhere, so I think the possibilities are endless. Personally, I find that very exciting -- you have a totally blank canvas to play with once you've set up the cast... horror, romance, mystery, period drama -- all valid possibilities providing you can tell a good story.
But, for the sake of argument I'll have a go at a concept:
"The lives and loves of the residents of the Collinwood mansion, and the dark shadows that the supernatural casts casts upon them."
Endless possibilities -- which is the best future any new show can have.
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I would like to see a retelling of the original Dark Shadows. They could use the opportunity to tie up loose story ends, such as who Vicky's parents were. They could keep around some of the more interesting characters like Tony Peterson. They could eliminate some of the more unpopular storylines. They could further examine some of the characters and plotlines of 1897 (Quentin in Egypt and more about Magda and Sandor).
One sentence--Victoria Winters arrives at the great estate of Collinwood to be a governess to young David Collins and in searching for her own origins discovers a world of supernatural secrets and complex family relationships.[coolb]
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I think johnathan frid was the right age protrayal of barnabas, so what if he was older that the women he interacted with, it was very believable and except for the fact that he was a vampire when barnabas was trying to make maggie into josette it could possibly more true than real love, espically when he tryed to get vicki to be his bride, it was the closest a person in love could be without going mad on each other. Can you imagine an actor in his mid 20's protraying barnabas in the original series, he would have bad acting and not very good for the kind of 19th century guy released in 20th century 1967 because he was a vampire thing, it would be the same thing today, so i hope that they be very careful in selecting who will play barnabas in the new pilot, he was emotionally the most hard character to play,he was also the most complex because he was so popular they had to find a way to make it last as long as possble and barnabas became a complex person and character to play, i also think that a relative unknown play barnabas, and at least should have some experince in the dramatic arts, because just no ordianary actor can play barnabas the way he should now be intended to be, complex.
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replying to maria_ merriweather, i totally agree that dark shadows as it was originally intended should be fully explored , though not in prime time but in daytime, of course you would have to add light touches of supernatural such as the phoenix, ghosts and things but not as heavy as in the 2nd season on.
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Picard,
I believe Jonathan was the perfect person to portray Barnabas. I doubt I would have watched it if he wasn't on. I just believe the character of Barnabas should have been at least 30 something instead of 20 something because Jonathan was clearly not in his 20's.
I believe most everyone would agree that Jonathan is a very good actor with all the complexities he brought to the character of Barnabas. The few times he seems awkward in that role, IMO is when he kisses one of the SYT's, especially Donna Wandry. Maybe it was because it was uncomfortable for him as a man in his 40's to be kissing on a woman just barely out of her teens. The one exception is Lara Parker who as I've stated before, IMO he had great chemistry with.
BTW,
the reason I believe Barnabas to be in his mid 20's is because Jeremiah who died in his early 30's was supposed to be older than Barnabas plus he had a nine year old sister and his parents were clearly not in their 60's but likely in their 50's. (Although Louis Edmonds was barely one year older than Jonathan)
Murph
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Can we please have this discussion without trying to annoy each other?
Midnite -- I think there's just a little pot-stirring going on here... and it's a fine stir. Enjoying it immensely here. ;)
--Mark
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oh my gosh a challenge. . . ::rusky away to scribe::
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All I want is a decent script. They want to have Victoria Winters arrive on the Greyhound bus or whatever to home school David Collins. Fine. They want to redo the same story. Fine. I want good dialogue. I want character development. I want subtlety. I want decent plotting.
I second that emotion Lucia. :)
I would like to see some of the original cast members given the opportunity to either reprise their roles, or develop new characters.
Bob
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Like before me, I want certain storylines to be redone, (where does Viki come from, etc). I dont want this series to be about Barnabas (WB already has a show that revolves around a Vampire, Angel). I think the show should evolve around the Collins Family.
And remember Dark Shadows is a gothic soap opera. So what I was wondering are they going to write it like a primetime soap or more the monster of the week show with overall season arc. Similar to Angel and Buffy Vampire Slayer.
If Dark Shadows is to be a success, I think the following things are a must.
1) Focus on the gothic
2) Make it easy for viewers to keep up with the show in case they miss a show.
3) Have some light moments (comedy)
4) Have some emotional moments.
5) Character Driven and Not Plot Driven
6) Focus on other Characters besides Barnabas.
who knows how it will be, but I think these ideas are some good ones.
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To me, that's like saying: "Well, I'll love that radio show, so long as it's yellow."
Perfect!!......even if I did end up with tea on the monitor....[lghy]
I think it's reasonable to say that those of us who are prepared to leave the new production in the hands of it's creators, and wait to see what they have done, have at least a chance of enjoying a new DS.....while those who expect the new production to meet their own specific, personal and detailed criteria for success are pretty much asking to be disappointed.
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Although this reply is coming a little late, Nicole I loved what you said!
And I agree with others who say just give me a good script. I believe that there's tremendous room for interesting television with a gothic premise and thoughtful writing. Even if they choose to retell some of the original series' storylines, that could be okay. There's always room to breathe new life into Dark Shadows.
And I really don't agree with the poster(s) who opined that the WB shows only pay attention to teenagers, or rely too heavily on comedy. Have you ever seen Angel? It's dark as hell. And the last couple seasons of Buffy dealt with some pretty heavy stuff. And it's true, the actors on such shows aren't teenagers.
I for one wouldn't necessarily need a new Dark Shadows to go that far towards the dark side. Heavily gothic with a sense of brooding and doom would be nice, though. Although I'm pessimistic about this proposed new series ever seeing the light of day, I'm excited as anything that it actually might happen!
BTW, does anyone watch Fox's Tru Calling? There's a guy on the show who would make a terrific Willie Loomis. He plays Tru's brother Harrison.
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Raineypark wrote:
I think it's reasonable to say that those of us who are prepared to leave the new production in the hands of it's creators, and wait to see what they have done, have at least a chance of enjoying a new DS.....while those who expect the new production to meet their own specific, personal and detailed criteria for success are pretty much asking to be disappointed.
Very true. I think the reasonable majority among us agrees mainly that a general high level quality is more important than actual specifics of plot and character. As yet, we're far from even having a show to judge at all. I would consider just having one on the horizon an agreeable prospect.
--Mark
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replying to cassandra blair, angel may be dark as hell, but dark shadows was never dark as hell, nor should it be now.
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replying to cassandra blair, angel may be dark as hell, but dark shadows was never dark as hell, nor should it be now.
Actually, picard, I believe Cassandra_Blair's comment (that Angel is "dark as hell") was in response to characterizations made about the WB which she also pointed out were not made by only one person, and probably also your comment that Buffy is "fluffy" and Angel is "garbage"; not about DS.
I realize that some are enjoying the course this topic has taken-- I do appreciate your comment, Mark, and agree that there's some fantastic input here-- and some are apparently even finding it amusing, but I'm finding the arguing and the sarcasm at someone else's expense (not all of it still available) and the defensiveness very disconcerting.
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I'd like to elaborate a bit on my apprehension of the new WB series. I'm not against a remake of DS - I loved the 1991 series and still have it on tape. Nor am I against the WB per se.
But television is a very different animal than it was just 12 years ago, let alone 37 years ago. Today, TV shows are market researched and put through focus groups to the extent that something creative rarely makes it onto the air.
Witness the sweeping changes throughout daytime TV in the past decade; the advertising industry has decided their new target demo is girls between 12 and 18 and thus today's soap operas have become shallow in their appeal to the lowest common denominator. The primary goal seems to be to throw talentless, shirtless male models onto the screen with the expectation that 12 year old girls everywhere will squeal in delight. Content and substance have taken a backseat to eye candy if they are in the car at all. Hence the reference to the recently failed WB series "Tarzan."
The networks and/or sponsors just don't seem to get it - 12 year old girls were squealing with delight over Jonathan Frid - hardly a male model - over 30 years ago. Even younger viewers appreciate talent, charisma and good storytelling. But there's so little of that on TV today.
I hope the WB does do a new version of DS and I look forward to checking it out, and I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm just skeptical about what kind of product they'll turn out in this era. The thought of DS turned into some mindless drivel like Passions or Days of our Lives makes me cringe.
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thank you dr. eric lang, i am glad someone on this board finally agrees with me.
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I hope the WB does do a new version of DS and I look forward to checking it out, and I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm just skeptical about what kind of product they'll turn out in this era. The thought of DS turned into some mindless drivel like Passions or Days of our Lives makes me cringe.
I am also skeptical of what the WB has in mind for the new version of DS. Since the WB paid for the script pilot, I assume they have already given Dan Curtis certain parameters on what they would like to see in the pilot, like for example, change how Barnabas is released from his coffin or ditch the Winters character (God forbid) etc... I just hope Cutis does not sell his soul to the devil just to get the show back on the air. It would have been helpful to know the exact reasons why Fox was unhappy with last year's DS pilot.
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thank you dr. eric lang, i am glad someone on this board finally agrees with me.
picard, we're just debating and discussing 8) That's why we're all here. And I wouldn't worry. To my knowledge nobody on these boards has a say in what's going to go down. It's all just fun conjecture.
My challenge is simply this- Post a one sentence 'high-concept' description of what DS is. That's it. Then we'll see what we get...
When a young woman arrives in a small coastal Maine town, intent on discovering her roots, she stirs up the past as well as supernatural events that change their lives forever.
How's that?
I'm obviously not suggesting scrapping Vicki. The show always had a gothic focus, and that sort of requires a young heroine. Arrival of a stranger always helps gets plot going. That's why she worked so well on the original show.
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Food for thought. This is what WB Network co- CEO Jordan Levin had to say in an article with the Hollywood Reporter dated December 16, 2003 concerning next fall's schedule.
"We're going to take more risks in comedy and try to things that are further-out choices, higher concepts or different points of view," Levin said about the net's comedy development. On the drama side, " I think we have a very healthy balance between some passion projects that carve out new territory as well as strong franchise projects, Levin said."
Hopefully, in the latter he was referring to Dark Shadows and Lost In Space.?
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It would have been helpful to know the exact reasons why Fox was unhappy with last year's DS pilot.
Simple- the script was uninteresting and not compelling- a barely changed shortened version of the 2hr pilot for the 1991 series with a few tweaks and alterations such as Maggie running a magic shop (next to the Blue Whale which her dad ran) and being into sorcery. She was involved in some kind of earth god or goddess cult (Carolyn too) that wore black robes for their rituals.
It felt like the 1991 version with an attempt to make it a little Buffy-ish...
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I guess I'm in the minority - either that, or those who feel as I do aren't posting in this topic - but I can't envision a remake or a "new" Dark Shadows at all. I don't think the magic and the uniqueness of the show could ever be recaptured - not in a million years. If this new show comes to pass, and they manage to come up with something people like, then more power to 'em. But it won't be Dark Shadows. It'll be something else, which I guess, is why I have no interest in it.
The ONLY concept I can imagine having any sort of appeal to me at all would be a show which has the original cast members in their roles as they would now be in 2003. Problem is, we're missing a few key people and Frid is retired. I mean, REALLY....anyone else playing Barnabas....I can't get with the program. LOL
Jonathan Frid was Barnabas - he created him. Same with Quentin. The idea of anyone other than Selby playing him is sacrilege in my humble opinion.
Actually, if they could come up with something interesting casting the available original actors in their roles, utilizing flashbacks here and there might prove interesting - particularly for those who have never seen Dark Shadows. Think about it. Has something like that ever been done? Being able to have the real people NOW and being able to show them 35 years ago (and not having to use younger people to play them)?
I dunno. Maybe I'm way out in left field. 8)
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Simple- the script was uninteresting and not compelling- a barely changed shortened version of the 2hr pilot for the 1991 series with a few tweaks and alterations such as Maggie running a magic shop (next to the Blue Whale which her dad ran) and being into sorcery. She was involved in some kind of earth god or goddess cult (Carolyn too) that wore black robes for their rituals.
Thanks Darren for the information and honesty. It is a far cry from what we were officially told about how Fox was going in a different direction and that was the reason why Fox passed on last year's DS pilot script. I have a feeling the writer will come up with a more compelling and interesting script that will make the WB pleased..
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This is a great thread.
I am for a totally new DS. A rehash would be boring to me as the 91 series was (no, I didn't give it a chance, I was bored that quickly). If it's going to be the same I want it to be the same - I'll watch my MPI tapes.
But if they are going to recreate the original perhaps it would be good to start the show in 1795. No Viki or time travel and continue up to the point of Barnabas being chained in his coffin and then flashing forward to 2004 with his release and go from there.
Thanks Darren for the Fox info I was craving to hear. Perhaps the black robes killed it, that was the only part that seemed corny to me. ::)
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It is a far cry from what we were officially told about how Fox was going in a different direction and that was the reason why Fox passed on last year's DS pilot script.
I should say that my analysis in the post above is only my opinion based on the draft I was able to read...Studios don't tend to give you a script analysis when you submit, they pretty much give you the feedback quoted above, 'We're going in a different direction, yada yada yada." No one wants to risk offending a producer who might churn out the next big hit and may pitch their next big thing to your studio... ;)
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;D It doesn't take a genius to figure out the proposed Fox series was going to be the third remake of the same storyline!
:D I hope WB and Wells take the show in a different direction. I heard a 'next generation" approach was out of the question.
;D I don't think all those "teenagers" on WB are all in their 20s... some must be in their 30s!
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I heard a 'next generation" approach was out of the question.
Can you tell us where you heard/read this, wes?
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:) I heard it from one of the writers associated with DS. I was stating my opinion that DS should be done from a present, possibly alternate/parallell time from the original series.
:o The basic outline would be -- The brooding David Collins returns to Collinwood with his son (from an unnamed first wife) & his new bride (a Vicki-type heroine); mysteries ensue, naturally!
;D TPTB feel the the strongest initial storyline, and greatest chance for success, is the "Introduction of Barnabas" and the events that follow his getting out of the box... IE 1967, HODS, 1991. I thought a "next generation" type approach would be better & more modern.
:) I thought you could maintain continuity with the old series by hinting that the old show might exist in a parallel reality -- or, might also be the actual past of the "new" show. Then, you could use elements as you wanted, and let some "die." I thought it should respect the old series, but be modern/unique. I thought that approach would be the greatest chance for success... still do!
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Thanks, wes....though I find it disappointing....sounds for all the world as though the WB was frantic for a new Vampire series to replace "Buffy" (since they were dumb enough to loose "Angel") and decided DS was a quicker fix than a completely original new show.
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All i can say is that the Wb better not make it into one of those other "so-called" supernatural garbage like fluffy buffy and angel, dark shadows is not like that, and that will turn dark shadows fans of the original off on it in a snap, i know it will for me if that is what i see on the new pilot when and if it airs on fall 2004 primetime on the WB.
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sounds for all the world as though the WB was frantic for a new Vampire series to replace "Buffy" (since they were dumb enough to loose "Angel")
Rainey, it was Buffy that moved to UPN; Angel is still on the WB.
Dark Shadows has always been serious at what it does. It cannnot be like al the other so called supernatural shows like flufffy buffy, angel or any other of that garbage
All i can say is that the Wb better not make it into one of those other "so-called" supernatural garbage like fluffy buffy and angel, dark shadows is not like that,
With all due respect, picard, you're repeating yourself.
and that will turn dark shadows fans of the original off on it in a snap, i know it will for me if that is what i see on the new pilot
Actually, I'd love a DS done in either show's style.
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Rainey, it was Buffy that moved to UPN; Angel is still on the WB.
Of course it is....and I've obviously had more than my share of the egg nog...[lghy]
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had more than my share of the egg nog...[lghy]
Ooh, SHARE!!!
:D
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Ooh, SHARE!!! :D
Nah.....now that we have to treat eggs like toxic waste it's all the commercial stuff and that's nothing like my Auntie's eggnog used to be.
Oops!....we've slipped off topic, haven't we? [sure]
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had more than my share of the egg nog...[lghy]
Ooh, SHARE!!!
:D
You took the word right out of my beak.
Actually.... I told the missus the other day that we needed some egg nog. She asked how much. I said lots. She bought five gallons. It might last a day or two.
--Mark
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;D It doesn't take a genius to figure out the proposed Fox series was going to be the third remake of the same storyline!
:D I hope WB and Wells take the show in a different direction. I heard a 'next generation" approach was out of the question.
;D I don't think all those "teenagers" on WB are all in their 20s... some must be in their 30s!
I am not sure I agree with your position that it does not take a genius to figure out the proposed Fox series was going to be the third remake of the same storyline, especially since I was the one who originally asked the question as why Fox had passed on the DS pilot script. When Fox ordered the pilot I have to assume that they did not want a rehash of the previous used storylines.It was my opinion that Dan Curtis would then deviate from the repeated storylines and come with a more fresher approach. My curiosity was peaked when Fox then passed on the series pilot and it was not until Darren who provided us the answers we long sought. So here we are again with the WB odering a new script and again I have to believe that since its their investment money output that they have made suggestions as to what they would like to see in the DS pilot script. So hopefully Dan Curtis has learned his lesson of ignoring Fox's wishes and refusing to make the changes they requested.
I do agree with you that the new version must deviate from how Barnabas being released from his box. I do not think we need to see again Loomis release him a 4th time. How about in the beginning have the Collins family hire Julia to actually really do a history of the Collins family and when doing her research and based on the relentless inquisitive nature of her character she comes across the dark buried family secret. Just an example of how storylines could change.
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I think that a fresher approach is being sought, simply by the inclusion of John Wells in the mix. He's not just co-writing he's sharing executive producer credit with Dan Curtis. The exec producer is the one who truly holds the power AND gets the most money.
This was not the case with the Fox pilot where the co-writer was just a collaborator authorized by Fox (from a list of possible writers) to work on the pilot script with Curtis.
For Curtis to agree to share exec producer credit is a bold and positive move for him and shows his strong interest in getting this thing going.
Wells is a man with mucho clout and if he wants the pilot to be fresher with a new approach then most likely Curtis will ultimately acquiesce, if Curtis wants it made. Because of the development deal Wells has with WB they will probably be more open to discussions and revisions of the pilot script in order to get it into greenlight-able shape...
Of course, keep in mind these are all speculations on my part, based on the information printed in those articles..
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;D I agree that FOX probably rejected the guidlines (IE storylines, ownership, rights, budget, etc) their DS revival would have had to follow. I think that was wise.
:) I also agree that DC done DS right by bringing another person (IE Wells) into the mix... it certainly is about time!
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I think that a fresher approach is being sought, simply by the inclusion of John Wells in the mix. He's not just co-writing he's sharing executive producer credit with Dan Curtis. The exec producer is the one who truly holds the power AND gets the most money.
This was not the case with the Fox pilot where the co-writer was just a collaborator authorized by Fox (from a list of possible writers) to work on the pilot script with Curtis.
I am a bit torn about all of this. On one hand I am upset with DC for possibly blowing a golden opportunity to have a new version of DS on Fox, a major network, that would have been seen far above the WB's limited audience if he had only submitted a more imaginery modern version DS pilot script and had been more open to post script suggestions. On the other hand I respect him for not making dramatic changes to the traditional story lines. Part of me believes that a new version of Dark Shadows based on its traditional story lines with new actors and better special effects (please do not use a model of Collinwood in the opening credits which in my opinion cheapened the look of the 1991 series) could work. On the other hand part of me believes that it is time for a change but not a dramatic change like completely ditching the Vicky character.
I am really encouraged that DC has agreed to share exec producer credit something I do not think he would have done years ago. Based on reading his interviews he comes across to me not to be an individual to let another person have input/control over his baby. And for that he certainly should be applauded. I agree that having Wells aboard gives us fans our best shot in years to see a new version of DS on the small screen. I shudder to think of a better chance in future years if the WB passes on the new DS script.
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Don't know if anyone read this article in the Boston Herald 11/30/03 edition ,a bit out- dated but very informative about the proposed series. Here are some of the important quotes from the article "WB turns to "Dark" side for vamp revamp" by Terry Morrow:
In hopes of holding onto viewers who have been devoted to supernatural adventures during the last seven years, WB is dusting off the coffin of Dark Shadows.
"We made a deal with John to do it" says Pam Morrison, WB's head of programming publicity. "It's one of our top priorities. The fact it has been off the air for so many years, and there is still a following for the franchise, makes it appealing to us."
With WB involvement, the new "Shadows" will have "a slightly younger slant with the characters" said Jim Pierson, marketing and promotional director for Dan Curtis Productions.
What will the new Dark Shadows be like?
" A new Dark Shadows would be adapting ( the franchise) to the times, but keeping the original flavor intact," Pierson said. " It's an old-fashioned gothic story with a romantic slant".
"Certainly the WB plays genre programming well", Pierson said. "(The network is) a little more niche oriented. If you look back at Dark Shadows when it first aired, many of the characters were in their early 20s. You did have young lovers on the show. The WB has had shows like Felicity and Dawson's Creek, so it is not so much of a stretch (to emphasize) the youth aspect of Dark Shadows. It's very much the basis of the show anyway."
end of article
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All i can say is that the Wb better not make it into one of those other "so-called" supernatural garbage like fluffy buffy and angel, dark shadows is not like that,
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and that will turn dark shadows fans of the original off on it in a snap, i know it will for me if that is what i see on the new pilot
Actually, I'd love a DS done in either show's style.
As would I. And truthfully, any new WB DS would be extremely lucky to garner the critical respect/praise given either show.
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(please do not use a model of Collinwood in the opening credits which in my opinion cheapened the look of the 1991 series)
Bwah! So true. I wonder why they did that? Also, it was impossible to differentiate between the Old House and the New House.
With WB involvement, the new "Shadows" will have "a slightly younger slant with the characters" said Jim Pierson, marketing and promotional director for Dan Curtis Productions.
I knew it.
Five words:
Travis Fimmel as Barnabas Collins.
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I also really do not know why they decided to use a model of Collinwood in the 1991 series. I guess the special effects people were a bit bored and needed work. lol I guess one reason they used the model was because the actual mansion ( Greystone) was not located on the top of a cliff, its grounds too massive for special effects to work, and I guess they thought with full control of the special effects they could make the model of Collinwood look dark and gloomy which they failed to do. They need to use the actual mansion in the next series. I did see part of the actual model at one of the fests and whoever created it did a great job. It just did not work as a good visual effect on the series, in my opinion.
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Hello,
I always wondered why instead of making Night of Dark Shadows about a parallel universe, why didnt they make a movie like Dark Shadows: Return to 1971. They should have told what happened to every character in a movie instead of making a movie about different characters.
I know the new WB Dark Shadows will most likely be a remake of the original show, but I think they should make this show a present day Collinwood. Elizabeth Stoddard could really be dead and Carolyn is now the mistress of Collinwood. I think the new show would have a better chance if they made the show about the offspring of Carolyn, Maggie, and others. Maggie (KLS), Carolyn, Quentin, and others could make guest appearences through the show.
By making the new Dark Shadows show about the next generation, there are more Storyline possibilities and could recreate a whole new generation of fans.
I wish the show would be like this. It would also be a cool idea if they made the audio play of Return to Collinwood, a movie or TV movie, I think it would do well.
Shane
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I'm looking forward to the new Dark Shadows. It doesn't matter to me if they attempt to remake the original show or if they create a whole new version and reinvent (some) characters and storylines. As long as they remain at least a little faithful to the most basic plotlines I'd watch it. A good serious anime version of DS would be fine by me. I'm pretty easy to please, Dark Shadows-wise.
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I am excited about the fact that there is a possibility of a new version of Dark Shadows. I am open to anything as long as it is done well in terms of characterization/story/acting, etc, whether it is a "remake" or a continuation, or a completely new story. Whether or not established fans enjoy a possible remake or not, one good thing that could come out of it is an increased interest in the original DS ---- which is far more important to me. I want MPI to continue issuing DVDs and video tapes and for the original to show on t.v. again for many years to come!
Wiley
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My 13 year old is a big fan of The WB and i can't wait to see her face if a DS show "invades" her world[lol2]
jennifer
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I'm for giving a new DS a shot. It might be the most awful thing ever produced....or it might be the witty, crafty, sly, creepy, lush, diabolical, guilty pleasure we all wish for. Either way, we'll still always have the original, so it costs us nothing.
I agree with you. I'm going to give it a chance. My heart is hoping for the best, my logic is saying look what The WB has produced in the past (with a few notable exceptions) and it doesn't seem very hopeful but, I'm going to give it a try. That's all I can do.
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I think the series will have a fighting chance if they do not choose to retell the girl on the train and the Josette/Barnabas tale yet again. It's not that neither weren't enormously important to the series, it's just that he's reheating left-overs for the umpteenth time and it really doesn't work for me.
I can see your point but, the majority of potential viewers will not have ever seen the Barnabas/Josette storyline or a Victoria Winters coming of age. I think that there is a place for these plots to fit into the new show. The vampire storyline has to be strong and we all know that the original Barnabas had teenage girls and young women swooning and screaming for him big time. Young girls/women are still coming of age today and I think that they will relate to an updated Victoria Winters story totally relevant to how they are seeing through their eyes the world today. A brand new Dark Shadows can definitely have a fresh face but there are still some of the same things that appeal to each generation IMO.