Author Topic: Leviathan....the beginning of the end?  (Read 13389 times)

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Offline Luciaphile

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2003, 01:44:11 AM »
The Leviathan plot isn't working for me really. I've skimmed through a couple of episodes, but it's blah, blah, blah. "My Chris Pennock is wearing a lot of eyeliner" blah, blah, blah. What else is on?

Elizabeth Eis' brief episode was interesting viewing though. I'm not sure where I heard this before (here? maybe Gothick or Nicky?) but someone once said that they got the feeling that she'd probably killed Momma and Poppa before heading up the other side of the Mason-Dixon to go fight for the Leviathan Cause.
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Offline Stuart

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2003, 04:00:22 PM »
I always have mixed feelings about the Leviathan jaunt - I've never bought it as the complete turkey it's purported to be, but I think that it just came at a time when the overall nature of the show was shifting, along with its priorities.

For example, I'd say that most of 1968 is just as silly and illogical, and in great chunks just as dull.  I think the real problem lies in the increasing shift to plot-driven drama, and perhaps a general boredom with the present day scenario.

One of the problems with 1897 long-term was that it went on way too long - it really did disrupt the present-day continuity in a way that 1795 didn't.  Part of me wishes that they'd simply stayed in 1897 and built a new show from there - I think they had generally had a community of characters of equal quality, and the Victorian backdrops fitted the show's ambience in a way that a miss-mash of Gothic meets Orhbach's never could...

The one thing Leviathan gets totally right is demonising Barnabas - the nice guy thing had really worn thin for me and it was an ideal way to extend the character (bear in mind that a lot of the viewers wouldn't have been watching the initial Barnabas story).  In many respects, Barnabas the villain was enough story - and it was a better starting point than the abstract Lovecraft rip-offs.  In 1967, Barnabas was electrifying - he was dangerous, a plausible liar, an arch manipulator, beyond trust - he just made for great storytelling.  If they could have recaptured half of that essence, it could have been amazing.

The problem was that the main attraction became lost amidst a fairly underdeveloped story that didn't really use its characters - which brings me to plot.  There seems to be a real disparity between being true to the dramatic situation and giving the audience a perceived want...  Take Quentin for example - In 1897 he had purpose and drive, but in the present he simply has nothing to do and meanders.  He should not have been reintroduced without a proper story or purpose, and it damages both the character and show in the process.

Likewise, there seems to be a lack of faith and enthusiasm for the story itself - characters chop and change roles as the story demands and you lose a sense of immediacy and belief.  Admidst this major loss of faith comes a bunch of dodgy additions aiming for nostalgia - Nick Blair, Angelique's bizarre Samantha Stephens-esque jaunt into suburbia, etc.  And while this is going on, the writers seem to miss huge opportunities to get the audience back on track.

Carolyn's wedding always bugged me - weddings are such a soap staple, easy money in the bank.  It irritated and disappointed me so much that one of the original characters was married off so forgettably with zero emotion or romance whatsoever - a real case of DS forgetting that it's a soap opera.  A week-long wedding story, with some genuine happiness, with the threat of darkness lurking beneath the surface, could have been fantastic I think...

Leviathan is a story I want to love in spite of myself.  Beneath all the mistakes there were some major opportunities, but they're lost amidst a lack of conviction - if there's one thing the story lacks creativity, it's joy.  It seemed to have stopped being fun for the makers, and inevitably, viewers usually follow suit.
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Offline Patti Feinberg

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2003, 01:47:39 AM »
Stuart...you said a mouthful.

The one thing I might take exception to would be the "Samantha Stephens-esque" of Ang; her 'raison d'etre' was always to be "loved as a woman"; ergo, a "man" would have wanted a Stepford wife.

Not to mention, with Sky 'comfortable', Ang would've become more domestic....she of COURSE couldn't of stayed that way...but it would be quite fun.

Agree whole-heartedly with what you said about 1968 being dull, silly and illogical. And, it's sad but true about they didn't seem to know what to do with 'real and present' Quentin.

You hit the nail on the head about the wedding!! (I hadn't thought of it...a wedding on a soap is HUGE!!)

And it wouldn't be just any wedding....CAROLYN "KITTEN" COLLINS STODDARD....

Thanks Stuart,

Patti
What a Woman!

Offline Mark Rainey

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2003, 01:55:15 AM »
Very much agreed, Stuart. Very concise post, and very similar to my own view of the Leviathan episodes. It was the first DS story I began watching regularly, and from the scattered prior episodes I'd seen as a kid, I had no real concept of what had been going on before. Far as I was concerned at the time, this was DS as it was meant to be. That's probably why it still has a warm place in my heart.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2003, 02:51:04 AM »
as a kid, I had no real concept of what had been going on before. Far as I was concerned at the time, this was DS as it was meant to be.

How unfortunate for your childhood, Mark, for THAT to have been your first perception of DS. But I suppose it explains so much.  [supergrin]

Offline Mark Rainey

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2003, 03:58:58 AM »
Quote
How unfortunate for your childhood, Mark, for THAT to have been your first perception of DS.

Perhaps not. Being a bit older and none the wiser when I got to see the rest of it, I think I perhaps appreciated it a bit more. ;)

Quote
But I suppose it explains so much. [supergrin]

Explain THIS, buddy....

[supergrin]

--Mark

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2003, 04:43:14 AM »
The Leviathins was neither the best nor the worst of DS.

The return of Quentin & Amanda was a good story, & there were some genuinely creepy moments in the antique shop. Julia's frustration at Barnabas' emotional distance was very well acted. Paul Stoddard's lack of a developed character was a major missed oppurtunity, and all scenes featuring ultra-hip Jeb(Pennock, a fine actor, was much better as later characters) and/or the heavy
 breathing green slime were laughable.

What really killed the show, I think, was the alienating 1970PT story, which truly was a different show that had no connection at all to the stories & characters we loved. More damage was done in 1840, which began well but had too many plot holes and no real conclusion. 10 brilliant episodes in 1995 & a somewhat creepy summer of 1970 were not enough to recover from these two fatal mistakes. 

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2003, 08:03:08 PM »
The Leviathins was neither the best nor the worst of DS.

Here on the forum we truly believe that no one DS fan's opinion carries any more or less weight than any others. But when one culls together several hundred of those opinions, well, it might paint a different picture. So, bearing that in mind, by the time the Members' Archive comes back online, hopefully you'll have amassed enough posts to gain access to it (members need to make 50 posts first) so that you can check out the results from a 1998 online event (hosted by Diana Millay for the now defunct Dark Shadows Online forum on AOL) called The Brandies (a sort of DS version of the Academy Awards). Through a lengthy process of preliminary and then final voting, several hundred online DS fans got to choose their favorites/least favorites in categories ranging from the sublime (Favorite Actor & Actress) to the ridiculous (the 'Mr. Juggins Award' for Favorite Wooden Performance & Favorite Severed Body Part) - and given your statement above, the overwhelming result of the Least Favorite Storyline might surprise you. ;)

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2003, 08:13:10 PM »
Quote
But I suppose it explains so much. [supergrin]

Explain THIS, buddy....

[supergrin]

Now, Mark, where would the fun be in that? [evilg]

(But I swear it wasn't meant as an insult. After all, I haven't forgotten how smitten you are with me and Midnite. And I can assure you that you'll always hold a warm place in our hearts as well.  :-* [wink2])

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2003, 08:52:32 PM »
What really killed the show, I think, was the alienating 1970PT story, which truly was a different show that had no connection at all to the stories & characters we loved. More damage was done in 1840, which began well but had too many plot holes and no real conclusion. 10 brilliant episodes in 1995 & a somewhat creepy summer of 1970 were not enough to recover from these two fatal mistakes.

Oops - forgot to mention that I couldn't disagree with you more about these two storylines. I might be in the minority when it comes to 1970PT but I LOVE it, and one of the things that makes it so special for me is the very fact that there are just so many alternate characterizations of our favorite characters (not to mention the Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca-esque overtones). I champion 1970PT just as much as the Leviathans lovers do that period on the show (I actually can't wait until we get our first glimpse in episode #969 on June 5th). And while 1840 doesn't rank as high as 1897 or 1795/96 do on my list, IMO it has way too many wonderful things about it to be easily discounted. But then, disagreement over the DS storylines and defending/berating them with fellow fans is at least half the fun of forums like this, so I can already see from your brief time posting that you're going to be a much welcomed addition to the family. [thumb]

Offline VictoriaWintersRox

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2003, 10:56:42 PM »
Whenever I think DS is starting to get a tad 'blahish,' a great episode or two airs. Like yesterday. Yesterday's episodes were great. I love it when Angelique is on during this storyline and I was so glad that Jeb wasn't on.

I've noticed that online a lot of people seem to dislike this storyline, and I can sorta see why because it definately isn't one of my favorites. One of my friends watched DS occasionally during last summer [during the beginning of the present day 1968 storyline, and I think some of late 1795] and whenever I mention the Leviathans when I talk to her about what's going on the show, she often goes 'oh..those people that ruined the show?'. I guess it's reputation precedes it.

Offline Patti Feinberg

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2003, 11:59:40 PM »
MB...I too am waiting for PT....love the 'sisters' [devil]

Thayer David's portrayal blows me away....I can't BELIEVE he'd do that!!!

Off course, not even the spoiler thing will make me tell of the best part


G.H. aka J.H. aka HOFFMAN dah dah DAH DAAAH!!!!!

oh wait....my actual fav is:

[spoiler]CAROLYN'S HAIR!!! meow purr purr[/spoiler]

Patti
What a Woman!

Offline Philippe Cordier

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2003, 12:38:11 AM »
Speaking of Carolyn's hair ...

Jeb's continual mauling of Carolyn's blonde tresses (could it have been a "fall"?) is such a stomach-turner ... I think he's only done it a couple of times so far, but just wait ... If you think Roger Davis touched his own hair a little too often ...

 ::)

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Offline Josette

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2003, 08:12:34 AM »
Oops - forgot to mention that I couldn't disagree with you more about these two storylines. I might be in the minority when it comes to 1970PT but I LOVE it, and one of the things that makes it so special for me is the very fact that there are just so many alternate characterizations of our favorite characters (not to mention the Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca-esque overtones). I champion 1970PT just as much as the Leviathans lovers do that period on the show (I actually can't wait until we get our first glimpse in episode #969 on June 5t

I hadn't realized you were a 1970 PT lover!  While I rank 1795, lots of 1897, and some of the present day parts higher, it's still a part that I particularly enjoy and I always look forward to it (especially coming right after Leviathan!!!).
Josette

Offline Gerard

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Re:Leviathan....the beginning of the end?
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2003, 03:38:11 PM »
I, too, am pretty much of a fan of PT1970.  Okay, granted, most of the characters high-tailed it outta there, visiting relatives and such (while their alter-egos were busy doing things at the Lyndhurst Estate), leaving the "left-overs" to carry the story until near the end when everyone returned home from visiting relatives to wrap things up.  And I did not care at all for the Jekyll-Hyde thing (one lesson learned:  drink weird chemical concoctions and your face turns into a mass of costume puddy).  But for some reason, over-all, I liked it.

Gerard