Hi Adamsgirl,

Spoiler:

I've been re-watching some of the 1840 shows where the writers sort of play with a Julia/Barnabas/Angelique triangle.  It's kind of too bad that they did this at a time when the plot was lurching literally from pillar to post, so the character moments are quick and sometimes sketchy, and I still can't take Angelique's "reform" very seriously.  But it's all we've got and it's a treat to revisit some of these scenes again.

G.

Unfortunately they never did a flashback showing us the circumstances of Barnabas' original liaison with Angelique.  (And it's a pity they didn't, because I'm sure Frid and Parker would have blown the roof off the studio in such a scene!)  So, it's up to the viewer to interpret the various things that Barnabas and Angelique say to one another--and to other characters--about their trysts in Martinique.

In evaluating those various scenes, I for one bear in mind that Barnabas showed himself to be a master in the fine art of rationalization when it came to his own needs, while Angelique already seemed old in the arts of cunning when we first see her as an apparently demure lady's maid in 1795.  So, I pretty much find it impossible to take ANYTHING that either of them says about the situation of their original affair at face value.

For what it's worth, my interpretation is that Barnabas used Angelique for physical gratification, as so many of his peers did with other servants in 18th century genteel society.  Judging from things she says to Ben fairly early on in 1795 about intending to get for herself EVERYTHING that Mam'selle Josette has, I view Angelique as having been amibitious from the start (I would hesitate to call her a gold-digger, though) and seeing a way into upward social mobility through matrimony with Barnabas.

One also needs to bear in mind that folk ethics around pre-marital sex were probably a LOT more fluid in tropical Martinique than was the case in Maine.

Again, just speaking for myself, I don't think Barnabas ever really "cared" for Angelique, although in that initial scene in 1795 you can see him trying to be somewhat gracious with her, initially.  He doesn't really get rude until it becomes clear that she is not taking "no" for an answer.  As for Angelique, I would describe her attachment to Barnabas as obsession--not love. I see a lot of it, particularly the original 1795 narrative, as being about her injured pride and her need for the validation of higher status in genteel society, than about the pure affections of her sweetly adoring heart.   I'll leave it at that because we've already gone over all of this a million times in the past.

G.

I've never seen anything like that hoDS poster either.  I wonder whether it was part of a standee that would have been a lobby display; the other part, which presumably he discarded, would have had the title, slogans, etc. on it.

The monochrome Barnabas poster looks like something that would have been produced by the Philly Gum co. (whatever their actual name was) that produced the gum cards.  That's the picture that you could make by piecing the cards together on your bedroom floor (I did that many a rainy afternoon...).  I think the same poster used to be sold in the back of Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine.

cheers, G.

Thanks, Joe, that's very sweet.  I always dreamed of some day getting to take Lisa Richards out to dinner to hear her remembrances of Grayson.  Kathy Resch printed a short snippet in TWODS years ago from Lisa indicating that she not only admired Grayson greatly, but was very fond of her.  I don't know whether they had the chance to get together occasionally whenever Grayson would make her annual trips out to "the coast" to do this or that show.

Is Lynn Chris's current spouse?  (I guess we're not supposed to discuss the actors' private lives here, though.)

That story about the moon poppy is priceless!

Best, Steve

What fun!  Thanks for the alert, Penny!

I'm sure none of your fans would need to drink a love potion to feel Cupid's dart in contemplating your voluptuous form, my dear! given your extravagant Witchly charms...

A Fan 4ever,

Gothique

Charles, this is such a bizarre coincidence; I was just about to post a new "Episode 2" thread inquiring about the identity of the two actors who dance with Carolyn in that iconic scene in the second episode of the series.

I think Robert Viharo is the fellow on the right of the snapshot in today's episode montage.  I guess Mr. Feinstein must be the other one.  Or do I have it topsy-turvy?

G.

There are beautiful new DVD issues of both VotD and Beyond the VotD.  I enjoyed the latter for the songs and the completely way-out situations and characters.  It was fascinating to learn from the DVD that Roger Ebert is actually PROUD of having written Beyond the VotD--I'd always assumed that he had devoutly hoped that his connection to that movie would be buried in obscurity.  Beyond the VotD also features an appearance by the Strawberry Alarm Clock, whose anthemic song "Incense and Peppermints" was very much a part of the vaguely occult late Sixties groove in which DS became so widely celebrated back in the day.  (Although Beyond ... dates to the early 1970s, the band are seen performing "Incense," a top ten hint in 1967, at a party sequence.)

I guess we now have definitive documentation that the MB does NOT like camp, since he has gone on record dissing both Beyond... AND Myra Breckinridge--two of the campiest movies ever produced!

cheers, G.

Well.

Trying really really hard to be tactful here.... I think it is just as well that Dan Curtis never directed ANY version of VotD (it's interesting to note that Jean Simmons played Susan Hayward's role in the early 1980s telefilm remake--I commented to someone that Jean seemed to be stuck doing "remakes on behalf of other dead divas" when she got Joan Bennett's role on the Shadows remake).  I don't think Curtis' skill set (again, trying to be tactful) was in any way suited to the material of Jackie Susann's novel.  Mark Robson was considered a wretched director by those who worked with him on VotD, by the way.  According to Patty Duke's memoirs, Robson was brutal with the actors and had poor Sharon Tate constantly in tears because he treated her as  little more than a talking mannequin throughout the shoot.

I would cast Briscoe as Mel and Crothers as Tony.  I think Grayson would have been better as Tony's sister--the Lee Grant role.  I think it would have been more fun and shocking to have Joan Bennett as Helen Lawson, although Joan might not have wished to violate her gracious public image with a role that had such a "hard inner core."  (I keep my tape of Suspiria just for the dialogue where Joan rants "I want you to kill that American bitch, NOW!")  I think based on Karlen's performance as writer Will Loomis, he would have been great as Ted Casablanca although I would have wanted the role to get more screen time than was the case in the final cut of VotD.  Karlen could work a flamboyant edge.  And to Janet the Wicked, it doesn't impugn an actor's masculinity to say that he can play gay convincingly. Quite the reverse, I would say.  There's a reason why we call it acting, dear.  But I'll stay off my soapbox ... for now.

I've referred to the characters at Collinwood reading VotD the novel more than once in my own fan fiction.  I think it would have been a hoot to have shown the book on Liz's night table in one of her boudoir scenes.  In one of those scenes where Carolyn tries reading to her mother to calm her nerves when Cassandra has been giving her nightmares, it would have been great if she had picked up some thick tome and recited, "You'd have to climb Mount Everest to reach the Valley of the dolls."  I think Nancy would have been SPECTACULAR as Neely.

G.