Hello DSF, Professor Stokes Here!

[Miranda]

I have several thoughts here, first of all , to the "new" Professor Stokes, I am so sorry you and your wife have found posting here as you do high volume so hard that you have to leave, but I will remind you you can read as a guest.  I, too, encountered that not being able to post after 120 seconds and found it very frustrating.  This is a wonderful board, but gets too "picky" at times, so sometimes I read as a guest, too.


Now, as to my reply about Jonathan and the bloopers, I have read quotes from him where he has mentioned the fans focusing on them, etc.  Heck, as I have even said before, I have gotten frustrated that his former costar Lara, with whom he had such rapport both on and off screen has at times focused on his forgetting his lines, though in a recent interview on her book tour she did say that it worked so well for him as it allowed him to play the tortured vampire so well, so that is how I think she ultimately feels.

Still, there were performances on DS that could border on camp and were over the top, a good example is Ms. Hall and Roger Davis, though both could also be very effective at times.

I am tickled to hear that Jonathan reads these boards once in a great while.  One thing, though, even if a person knows Jonathan and/or has met him in person or at a show, that does not mean that they would know of every single fan encouter he had--i know that while there were many fans who sadly only went to his shows or did not and went to the stagedoor for an autograph because they wanted to see "Barnabas", I know a lot of other fans did go to the one man shows and other performances because they admire him as an actor, that is why I certainly did.  I borught a family member with me to one of his shows who has absolutely no interest in DS and is very picky about giving standing ovations, but my relative heartily joined the standing ovation the audience gave Jonathan.

I am glad to see all the great comments here that board members admire Jonathan as a talented actor and don't look for the bloops.  If I ever sat down with Jonathan I would love to hear any impressions he had about working with Lara and the wonderful chemistry they had, but I would also be equally happy to discuss Shakespeare or European history with him, which seem to be addiional interests of his--I love the historical essays and observations Jonathan has put on his website.

[BuzzH]

I never thought of JF as sexy when he played Barnabas, but when I saw him as Bramwell, I was completely blown away by the raw sexuality that he exuded in the role.  It was as if Bramwell were being played by a different actor.  I think it says a lot about JF's talent that he was able to transform himself to such a degree.

Is the 1897 scene you mentioned the one in which Barn says, "Forgive me for being ungallant, but when I look at you..."?  That's another favorite of mine.  It's one of those wonderful moments when the writing, directing, and acting all serve each other well.

Yes I agree, it WAS as if a different actor was playing Bramwell.  I like the scene [spoiler]after Bramwell recovers from being shot in the duel w/Morgan and he goes to see Catherine and is goading her about spending time w/her sister Daphne.  When he says, "Does that bother you?" and kind of leers at her, classic![/spoiler]

Re: 1897, yep that be the scene! 

[Miranda]

Oh, my goodness, is Jonathan ever sexy as Bramwell, he and Lara sizzle up the screen as Bramwell and Catherine!!

[Sunny_Collins]

Professor Stokes and Bugsie, I'm so sorry to see you both leave, although I understand your reason. Best of luck to you, and stop in for a visit every now and then, okay? 

[Pansity]

Sorry to be coming in late on this.  For a variety of reasons I haven't been able to get over here since before the fest.  Trying to play catch up tonight, what, only 8 more pages out of 12 pages of new posts to go! 

I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism.

 If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.

  I find it hard to believe that most fans are into the show for laughs.  I doubt the show has survived as long as it has because people get off on bloopers.  I think the more likely scenario is the old adage that the most negative voices are generally the loudest.  I think most DS fans watch it for the good writing, acting and atmosphere and forgive the bloopers, not delight in them.  It seems in the 80s DS had this reputation amongst uninformed journalists for being "campy." Lately, this notion has started to change a bit, and "horror/fantasy" magazines and websites in particular seem to be giving DS the place it deserves as a groundbreaking and legendary show in the genre DESPITE the mistakes.  People who make fun of the actors should try memorizing pages of lengthy monologues overnight and then recite those lines verbatim the next day in front of a camera. They can then repeat this 5 times a week.

   If you wish, do tell Jonathan there are a lot of fans who don't think DS is a camp-fest and who appreciate the work the actors and crew put into creating a serious dark fantasy show.

Penny all I can do is second your wonderfully put post.  A LOT of us feel that way, but as you said get drowned out by the others who have a different perpective.  Its a lot like what I experenced in Trek fandom in particular, where the media and some of the powers that be had their perception of what they THOUGHT the fans interest was -- which is often not what has really drawn people to a show at all.  Note the media perception of "Trekkies" -- again, the most visible and vocal parts of that fandom, not the average fans.  The kind of poorly behaved, extreme fans you have in all fandoms -- who make the rest of us want to wear signs that say "I'm NOT one of THOSE fans!"

All kidding aside, even as a kid I don't remember really paying much mind to the bloopers  -- I thought of it more as a televised stage play, even then.  Live TV was still not uncommon when DS was on (Think things like Hallmark Hall of Fame). I enjoy seeing how the actors RESCUE themselves far more.  That's a skill in of itself, that knowing how to cover when the right lines do a disappearing act from your brain.

What I love about the show as an adult is the lovely rich layered characters and plots. KLS has rightly pointed out a parallel between DS and Trek above and beyond their premier in the same year.  She has a point:  both are morality plays, classic stories of good and evil and how people react to things that happen to them; as much a modern mythology as George Lucas made from Joseph Campbell by way of Bruno Bettelheim's Uses of Enchantment.

The idea that anyone would really be drawn to the show and spend as much time as most fans spend on their fandoms, only to  to laugh at the bloopers and mock the actors saddens me.  How empty can people's lives BE if they have to get their satisfaction from the mistakes and embarrassment of others.

[Pansity]

... it has been said in other DS group/board circles that this is "where the adults go" to discuss DS and that is certainly true.

Here you can express an unpopular thought and not have the villagers chase you through the hills with pikes and fire.

Again, coming in embarrassingly late on this one, but Nancy....   Though, speaking as one who has been-- in other venues, let me stress -- chased by the flaming torches for expressing a courteous opinion or defending victims of predators, I tend to call them the village idiots myself.

And I have to second the thought about this being where the adults/grownups hang out.  Thank goodness Julianka7 kept after me until I made it over here and gave DS discussion venues one last chance.

[rainingwolf]

In reading the thread about DS being watched for bloopers, etc. I have to say, that I'm usually so engrossed in the story and the acting, that I often miss the so called bloopers. In fact when I purchased the "blooper" vhs tape, I often had to rewind to catch the mistakes at all! DS was, and continues to be, captivating!

[Jackie]

I don't believe the flub remark will/would bother JF. He believes the reason most fans watch DS is to make fun of it and the acting, etc.  It's the impression he has gotten from reading DS websites and other things.   So no worry about offending whenever he reads such stuff here or elsewhere.

Well, even though people notice the mistakes, I'd say we stick around to watch all the episodes and buy the DVD sets or VHS series because of the acting and storylines than the bloopers and mistakes!  I find the mistakes give the show the feel of real stage production instead of being able to redo things before taping.  I like the realism of the show, where people do make mistakes when saying something.  We do it all the time in real conversations.  GO DARK SHADOWS and Jonathan Frid...along with all his "friends" and "enemies" from the show.

[MagnusTrask]

Claude, with the hipper-than-thou remarks, I'm right there with you.   I am so sick to death of self-satisfied smartasses.    Though I may appear to be one myself once in awhile... Penny and others had great remarks too.

I'm nearing 1000 posts though it's hard to believe.   Maybe you'd better do a recount.    Anyway, in all the time I've been here, I've never seen one single post from one of these blooper fans.   Not one has posted on this thread.     Jonathan must feel encouraged by this.

I'm going to suggest here that a lot of fans are completely supportive and respectful of the actors, yet at the same time can occasionally laugh at blown lines.    If Mr. Frid has passed by video rooms at cons and has heard laughing, I think a lot of that came from the smarter, more appreciative fans.  If that sounds a bit schizoid, or contradictory, well, I can't explain it.   People are funny.    The laughs probably create a terrible impression when you're an actor walking by.    I'd be insulted. 

I feel for the actors when the blown lines happen.   Sympathy pains.    Mr. Frid sounds a bit mystified on his site, when discussing how reverential fans are about his acting despite mistakes.    It's an amazing thing that an actor's performance could be great enough to withstand that many missed lines.    It really is.     I don't see how he did it.

I've seen a few minutes here and there of present-day soap operas.    Every line is delivered perfectly.     I've decided that they must hire people (models maybe) with freakishly good memories over actors with souls.   They're automatons from what I can tell.

[Barnabas'sBride]

I've seen a few minutes here and there of present-day soap operas.    Every line is delivered perfectly.     I've decided that they must hire people (models maybe) with freakishly good memories over actors with souls.   They're automatons from what I can tell.

They have multiple takes. I have a couple television shows on dvd that contain blooper reels and one has several takes of one specific scene. But that's why you never see any bloopers on those shows. What you're seeing could be their fourth take. I'd probably need at least three or four takes and I might be being generous because I have a tendency to get tongue-tied. It really is amazing how well they did on DS with no retakes.

For me to get as involved with a show (or movie) as I became with DS there are two things that have to capture me and those are 01) a character or characters, and 02) the story. I've never associated DS with bloopers. Half the time when I'm watching the show I don't even notice them because I'm so involved with the people and what's happening on screen that they go right over my head.

[Jackie]

They have multiple takes. I have a couple television shows on dvd that contain blooper reels and one has several takes of one specific scene. But that's why you never see any bloopers on those shows. What you're seeing could be their fourth take. I'd probably need at least three or four takes and I might be being generous because I have a tendency to get tongue-tied. It really is amazing how well they did on DS with no retakes.

For me to get as involved with a show (or movie) as I became with DS there are two things that have to capture me and those are 01) a character or characters, and 02) the story. I've never associated DS with bloopers. Half the time when I'm watching the show I don't even notice them because I'm so involved with the people and what's happening on screen that they go right over my head.

Yes that's so true.  I enjoy watching those outtakes on the DVDs too because it tells me that those actors are human and not infallible.  I enjoy watching them laugh at themselves and each other over their mistakes.  If DS had the money and time they wouldn't have had the bloopers in the tapes either.  I feel those mistakes give DS a charm that sets it above all the other masterpieces for sale.

[MagnusTrask]

I have to say the charm of mistakes escapes me.    I hope we're not edging into that dreaded "kitsch" (or camp) zone now.  I suppose not but I just don't feel that charm.     Instead I feel tense and breathless watching, knowing they had to work and rush so hard to get such a complex production (period costumes and sets etc.) done, five days a week.    The mistakes make me feel how rushed they were.

[Jackie]

I can understand your confusion by my use of the word "charm" in the same statement as "mistakes".  When I make mistakes, I don't see the charm in it either.  Looking at it from the actors' point of view, there's nothing charming about bloopers or errors.  I have to admit, I used the wrong word to describe my feelings about the DS bloopers/mistakes.

I am not offended by those dreaded mistakes nor do they turn me off from watching and loving Dark Shadows.  People who don't know the series and watch it for a few minutes, comment on how bad the acting is and the errors. [I go into defense mode.] They don't give the show enough time to enjoy it and appreciate every aspect of the production.  I agree with the actors that it's like a repertory theater and when the mistakes appear on the screen, I feel like I'm watching live as they do their scenes.  I enjoy EVERY aspect of the show so I guess I'm charmed by everything on the screen. [clear as mud?]