Question for anyone who owns DVD set #5

[Selby_D._Pearson]

I've been monitoring defects on the DVD sets that I've purchased. So far, the defects all seem to be in the original masters, as they can be found in the MPI VHS DS series. However, on DVD Volume 5, on DVD #2, the 10th episode (approximately 198 minutes and 27 seconds into the DVD) as Joshua explains to Naomi (in episode number 392) that they are going to give out the story that Jeremiah died accidentally while cleaning his gun, there is a glitch that is not on my corresponding VHS episode. Just as Naomi begins to reply to Joshua there are several very loud static/spark-like sounds and then a very brief checkerboard pattern flashes. If you own DS DVD set #5, is this on your copy as well? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, SDP

[DarkShadowyFigure]

Hi, I checked my dvd #2 of Vol. 5. The same static/
spark sounds followed by the checkerboard pattern flashes occured in the scene you mentioned. It almost looks like there was an edit after Joshua stopped talking and when Naomi began speaking. Hope that helps!

[Misty]

  Yes, same thing on my DVD. Didn't we have a go-around with this earlier? Seems I remember some problem similar to this and I never found out if it was solved to everyone's satisfaction.
                                                    Misty

[Selby_D._Pearson]

Thanks DarkShadowyFigure and Misty for checking your DVD sets. Since this seems to be a DVD production glitch (and a relatively minor one) it's no use in asking for a replacement. With DVD, this type of defect is less common than the many things that can go wrong with videotape. I'm grateful that I've not found more defects in the DVDs.

What is irritating, however, are the mysterious small edits that we discussed here sometime ago. (Perhaps this is what you are remembering, Misty?) I think the particular edit in question was the Anita Bolster forgetting her line blooper when you can hear someone whisper her lines to her. Unfortunately, there are other changes to the original aired (and previously released VHS) episodes.

In episode 343 when Burke and Vicki tell Julia that Woodard's death is suspected to be murder, in previously released versions of the episode, just after Julia exits the viewer could hear Grayson Hall sneeze off camera. This sneeze has been edited out of the DVD episode.  :-

And at the very end of episode 396, as the Ghost of Jeremiah begins to bury Angelique alive, her memorable and climatic scream has been inexplicably deleted from the DVD version, even though it can plainly be heard in the TV broadcast and MPI VHS versions.  The same scene is replayed at the beginning of the following episode and this time, the scream is included. In fact, it sounds as if the scream has been audibly embellished with some reverberating echo.

I find it very strange that some DVD encoding technician who is (presumably) not a DS fan would take it upon him/herself to make these subtle changes to a cult TV series. Does such a person have that much clout (not to mention the extra time it would take) that they can  choose to "correct" any perceived mistakes in a show which they have been assigned to duplicate? Strange indeed.

I personally find it more than irritating and I hope by now it has stopped.

Thanks again, for your help!

SDP

[Midnite]

I personally find it more than irritating and I hope by now it has stopped.

SDP,

The topic isn't available for reading at this time (sorry about that!), but there was a recent discussion about an edit in set 10, episode #525 on disc 4.  It happened at a point where the screen turns bright green, and it was reported that a brief exchange got sacrificed in the process.

[Nancy]

If I were editing the DVDs for release, I would get rid of things like awkward pauses, off-stage noise and so on.  I think most editors would try to accomplish the same thing since their job is to tighten up where possible, eliminate distractions or noises and enhance the viewing in any way possible.  I am not at all surprised that MPI is making any minor edits. I would be very suprised if they went beyond that.

Nancy 

[Raineypark]

I'm not familiar with any of the technical aspects of the creation of Videos or DVDs of things that were originally produced on film or videotape, so I can't even speculate on the decisions that go into the process.

But everyone knows that original creators, be they directors, writers, musicians or artists, are profoundly possessive and protective of their own work.

So my question regarding all these "edits" would be...What part does Dan Curtis play in all this?  Did he not exert some control and final approval of the first VHS tapes?.....and does he not have the same control and approval of the DVD's?

If he does, then I'd conclude that the DVD's are exactly the way he wanted them, and no matter how any of us might disapprove, it's his work to treat as he likes.

If he DOESN'T, then I'd wonder why on earth not, and what that would say about his relationship to both the series itself, and the fans who love it so.

[Nancy]

Good question, Rainey.  I believe  MPI purchases the rights to distribute the series and I know some of DCP's staff have been involved in the past with producing videotapes through MPI.

But think about.  We are talking about minor edits (eliminating an off screen sneeze for example) and I can't imagine Dan Curtis or any other producer not wanting to have what they can cleaned up off the soundtrack or visually if that's possible.  Afterall, a creative person usually hopes that the reason someone loves his/her show is because it's captivating.  If someone said to you, "I love to watch such and such and see all the things that went wrong" you are not likely to flatter the creative person who was involved with that production.

While I know there are many fans who love collecting bloopers and tracking the different errors on the series, there are also plenty of fans who don't get that fascination as well. To each his own, certainly, but I don't think producers who want to be respected for their work want to believe the key reason someone watches his/her product is to see what was done wrong or certainly any focus on that aspect of the production.

Nancy

[Midnite]

an edit in set 10

Er, make that set 8.

[Selby_D._Pearson]

an edit in set 10

Er, make that set 8.

Thanks, Midnite! I'm only on Volume 5 so far.

When that thread is available to read, could you post the link here (or let me know how to find it)? I don't want to re-hash what has already been discussed to everyone's satisfaction.

SDP

[Midnite]

When that thread is available to read, could you post the link here (or let me know how to find it)?

Absolutely, Hon. 

[Selby_D._Pearson]

The intention of my original post in this thread was to verify if the glitch in DVD #2 of Volume 5 was unique to my copy. I have no intention of being drawn into another debate on whether the bloopers should or should not be left in the DVD episodes (although, if memory serves, the vast majority of fans here who are willing to purchase the DVDs want those episodes complete, "warts and all".)

The main question I have is why are these very few, very subtle changes being made at all? If Dan Curtis is worried about the bloopers of DS reflecting badly on his professional reputation, he's about 38 years too late. Personally, I don't believe Dan has much to do with the DVD production at all. If he was worried about the bloopers keeping consumers from purchasing the DVDs why doesn't he insist that ALL of the bloopers be corrected, or at least, ALL THAT CAN BE corrected? For instance, the scene where Barnabas picks his nose. How awful is that? That entire sequence could EASILY be taken out without disrupting the story. (When the DVD episodes reach that point, perhaps that blooper WILL be edited out. But, I think more people who buy the DVDs will be disappointed that it's not included than there will be people who never saw it before and thus, will never miss it.)

Sorry to digress, but again, my question is WHO did these edits and WHY? The MPI rep who posts here occasionally said that the edits were mistakes and that they would stop and presumably, they have. However, the fact that such sporadic editing was done, editing of bloopers that I think most techs unfamiliar with DS would miss, intrigues me. Did the tech have a knowledge of the show and its reputation for frequent bloopers? Did she/he set out to make a name for him/herself in the eyes of his superiors (including Dan Curtis) by ridding DS of its bloopers? Did she/he miss all of the other bloopers, only correcting the ones we've found?

Of course I will not say that Dan has no right to do what he wants to do to a show that he owns. George Lucas changed his Star Wars films after nearly 20 years, to the consternation of thousands of fans. Not that he didn't have the right to do it, but the fans are begging him, when the original Star Wars trilogy DVD is released,  to release the versions that they saw in their younger years. They want these versions, not at the expense of releasing the newer versions, but are circulating petitions for ALL versions to be released.

However, I suspect that Dan Curtis is not behind these minor edits. I want to know who and why?  I probably won't get to the truth, but then again who knows? Maybe Dan reads this forum and will give us some answers? 

SDP

[Nancy]

Sorry to digress, but again, my question is WHO did these edits and WHY? The MPI rep who posts here occasionally said that the edits were mistakes and that they would stop and presumably, they have. However, the fact that such sporadic editing was done, editing of bloopers that I think most techs unfamiliar with DS would miss, intrigues me. Did the tech have a knowledge of the show and its reputation for frequent bloopers? Did she/he set out to make a name for him/herself in the eyes of his superiors (including Dan Curtis) by ridding DS of its bloopers? Did she/he miss all of the other bloopers, only correcting the ones we've found?

I don't think most editors would believe anyone would notice the absence of a sneeze or other noise from the DS soundtrack.  Most of the bloopers on DS would be way to obvious to correct without it being, well very obvious.  I know there are fans who love the bloopers but frankly it surprised me that anyone would notice the removal of a sneeze or some other off camera noise.  I can see noticing the removal of a very visual blooper - which I would not attempt to do as an editor because that would indeed be obvious.  The editors are usually assigned their job by a producer in these instances.  I don't think anyone looks to make a name for themselves by editing out off camera noises or the like.  Just my opinion, of course.

Nancy

[Miss_Winthrop]

There is a huge editing job done on one of the DVD disks. I have the original VHS tape to compare it with.  The Vol. is #5 and the episode is # 375.  The scene is where Naomi comes down the stairs and sees that Jeremiah is holding a woman in a pationate embrace in the doorway leading from the back of the drawing room. My VHS tape briefly, but clearly, shows a stage hand holding a mannequin's arm that he presumably hands up to Maggie. This is no longer evident in the DVD version.

[Nancy]

Wow. That sounds like a mighty big editing job.
 

There was a very good reason that I did not believe that marketing person who came on the board months ago to claim there would not be edits made.

nancy