Can DS possibly come back from the dead one more time after diasterous Depp Film

[Gothick]

For what it's worth, here's the Wikipedia entry on the concept of canon as being discussed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

For Star Trek, they give a definition that contrasts with the one I have given for DS.  I feel strongly that canon for Original Series DS consists of the episodes as aired, full stop.  This is the case even though I really dislike some decisions that were made in canon about character fates, notably Victoria Winters' "final" fate.  (Dale Clark's first DS fan novel was written specifically to give an alteration to this canon, which has disturbed so many fans over the years.)  Another interesting example of this is in the 1980s TV series Beauty and the Beast, where TPTB provided an ending that many (perhaps most) fans regarded as outright character rape.  I think this may have been the first instance where fannish writers provided an alternate season of episodes to what had been aired, a practice that has since become popular in Net fandom with many canceled series.

Cousin Barnabas, Roger Davis's "performances" as Jeff Clark in 1968 definitely rate as among the most hair-grippingly awful (lol) material he did on the show, so I feel your pain.

For a lot of us Ancient Blood fans (viewers during the time of the original airing), the 1968 period has its own nostalgic overlay because it was during this time that DS really hit big in mass media coverage and national awareness.  Which was why the era was recalled by some cast members as "that year of insanity."  lol!

G.

[michael c]

the high handed throwing around of the word "official" doesn't make something part of series canon no matter how many times you use it. it was never revealed, on the series, who Vicki's parents were. that's really the beginning and end of it.


as for RTC to me it was just a performance(perhaps "skit" is too diminutive)using that actors available that year. if others want to read more into it because it was "official" whatever.


as I recall the Ross novels were "official" too and they spent a lot of time talking about someone named "professor veno" who was I think Liz and Roger's creepy brother. what's he up to these days?

[quentincollins]

I have all of Dale Clark's fan novels, they are really excellent! My favorite DS fan fiction. He did a great job of continuing the story and making good use of all the characters.
Vicki's fate is the worst! I really hate what was done to her. I've always thought she could still be saved thru time travel, and I thought a window of opprotunity was opened with RtC, with Liz's will urging Carolyn to find Vicki. I figured that when conventional meathods of locating Vicki failed, they'd turn to the tried and true method of seeking help with a seance, and from there there would be a time travel rescue. I'm pretty psyched that we may finally get Vicki saved in novel form.
Canon is just as high handed a word as offical in my opinion.
The Ross novels were offical DS merchandise, but they never intended to follow the tv series continuity, as the modern novels, comics and audios do.

[michael c]

needless to say none of this is "real" anyways...

but i'm a fan of the series and it's unique atmosphere and attitude so that's what I watched and that's what my reference points and "realities" are for this tale.

i'm not a fan of comic books or fan fiction or action figures or audiodramas or viewmaster reels or any of the other tchokes associated with the series. they're ancillary and optional. so no matter what "official" stories they may tell they're not part of the OS which is what I come to the whole shebang for anyways.

[MagnusTrask]

QC, I identify with anyone who loves trying to expand a series he/she is a fan of outward as far as possible, making it into as large and complex a fictional world as possible, while at the same time keeping it consistent.   It's silly for anyone to lay down rules for other people, as to what is or isn't "canon".   Any one of us can become Mr. Technical about it, citing this or that valid reason for calling "this" canon, and "that" not canon.   and we'd all probably be right.   We've all got good reasons, that conflict.  Therefore it's up to us as individuals (or groups in the case of a club, maybe) to decide for ourselves what works for us as "canon".  This is probably what I've heard referred to as "fanon".

What ticks me off is when legalities, meaning who owns copyrights and what those copyright owners have done with a show, are treated as the only legitimate authority to go by.   Corporations often take over shows and manhandle them for quick profits.   A corporation never had a creative thought or feeling... a corporation isn't even a person.   Creative people bucking the system to get real quality on TV, that's who "owns" the show, creatively, screw legalities.   #2 below the creators are fans.   In spirit, fans own these shows far more than the corporations who buy them.   Fans care, and keep the flame going, and are driven to keep the show's integrity intact.

We're at a point in history now when the shows with the biggest, longest lasting fandoms, (fandoms who kept the shows alive, "underground", and finally made it profitable to bring them back...) are now being drastically "re-imagined" for a mass market, to one extent or another.   (DS, Star Trek, Dr Who)   They're making us as fans have to decide something we've never had to decide before... whether we can reject new versions of our shows as not "canon", even though they are made by the official owners of these shows.  I say we can.   There are no rules for "canon" anymore.  We each have to decide that ourselves.

[The Doctor and K9]

I have all of Dale Clark's fan novels, they are really excellent!

Did his latest novel end on a cliffhanger, or were the major plot points resolved?

[quentincollins]

Did his latest novel end on a cliffhanger, or were the major plot points resolved?

The big plots were resolved, but there was still a big cliffhanger. I exchanged a couple of emails with him a few years ago, and he did say he had ideas for another story or two to finish the series.
Dale also had a stand alone zine that was a sequel to the tv series besides the ongoing novel series.
For what it's worth the last time I found his site with ordering info for the zines the last book or two weren't in the list. I suspect the website was just never updated, so if anyone ever finds it, I recommend contacting Dale to get an updated zine list rather than just order what's shown. It's been a long long time though, so who knows for sure if he even sells the zines anymore.

[The Doctor and K9]

I loved Resolutions in Time a standalone novel he wrote in the early 80s.

[The Doctor and K9]

as I recall the Ross novels were "official" too and they spent a lot of time talking about someone named "professor veno" who was I think Liz and Roger's creepy brother. what's he up to these days?

The general rule of thumb for canonicity usually only involves spin-off series.  The Star Trek sequel series are considered canon but the books, novels, etc are not.  The new Doctor Who series references the original series.  I'm not sure how to fit audio dramas. I don't see any reason why they are not considered a valid spin-off in the case of Doctor Who and all of the sequel series at Big Finish. They use the original actors, have high quality writers, and go to great lengths to remain consistent. In fact, they are often more consistent than the original series.  Remember Barnabas' "elderly" Uncle Jeremiah and the events of the "early 1800s". 1795 erased all that and then 1897 got it wrong again!  You don't have gaffes like that in the audio series! 

[michael c]

well again, suffice to say none on this is "real". every single bit of it is fiction...

accordingly people can "believe" whatever they want to believe. there's no to way prove or disprove anybody because none of it is real. but for my purposes series continuity came to it's conclusion when the 0S did in 1971. that was the end of it. if it hadn't happened in the previous five years it wasn't part of the story in a conclusive way. every comic book or audiodrama that's hit the marketplace since is, to me, an offshoot.

and just because some suit as DCP accepted a licencing fee and deemed something "official" doesn't make it part of series continuity for me because the series is over.

so digressing no matter what offshoot products decide that Liz is Vicki's mother(which is after all the sentimental fan favorite so why mess with people's fantasies?)for me it's irrelevant. it didn't happen in the context of the actual series. Joan and Alexandra never played those scenes.

but it sounds like it's a create-your-own-canaon situation these day.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

For what it's worth, when it comes to DS I also come down on the side that if it wasn't a part of the actual show, then it doesn't count as canon within the original show. I consider it to be separate canon within whatever alternate version of the show it's a part of.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

So to answer the question of the OP...  Yes.  Dark Shadows is returning to television this fall in two different series.  One is called "Dracula," and it's all about a vampire who travels across time to find the reincarnation of his lost love.  The other is called "Sleepy Hollow," and this one is all about a man who has been buried for 200 years and is then resurrected in a small Northeastern town.  Part of the plot shows how he adjusts to the changing times...   

This is why, if the real Dark Shadows is ever to return, it needs to differentiate itself from all of these other shows that are "inspired" by it.  Because they just keep coming... 

[The Doctor and K9]

it was never revealed, on the series, who Vicki's parents were. that's really the beginning and end of it.

Well..that's one way to look at it...but you don't own the rights, so really that's just an opinion. The actual beginning and end of it is, RTC exists, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Unlike other types of media before it, RTC fits into the continuity, it has the original actors reprising their roles, and it's licensed.  So I don't see the problem.  It's an official continuation of the show, that's really the beginning and end of it. The only question is whether or not a person wants to listen to it. If you don't that's fine, but for those of us who do, we have our answer.

[michael c]

gee...


if it's "licenced" and "official" than it must be true!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

This is why, if the real Dark Shadows is ever to return, it needs to differentiate itself from all of these other shows that are "inspired" by it.  Because they just keep coming...

I had the exact same thought.    Though properly differentiating itself in all likelihood means making significant changes - and we all know how many in fandom howl with great bale when the least little thing is changed (even as they make incongruous claims not to want to see the same thing all over again). So, if there ever is a new and revamped DS on TV in the future, it would be fascinating to see how many in fandom embrace it. Or would it be more of the same in those same corners that howled with great bale against the '91 DS and the '04 pilot?